back to article Judge says US Treasury ‘more vulnerable to hacking’ since Trump let the DOGE out

Trump administration policies that allowed Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency to access systems and data at the Bureau of the Fiscal Service (BFS) have left the org “more vulnerable to hacking” according to federal Judge Paul A. Engelmayer in New York City. Judge Engelmayer used that phrase in an order [PDF] filed …

  1. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

    Yeah right, of course Musk's stormtroopers will destroy all that juicy data.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/injury-rates-musks-spacex-exceed-industry-average-second-year-2024-04-22/

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/23/spacex_injury_rates/

    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

      Just wait, you can guarantee that the FAA, SEC, EPA, and various other government departments looking at worker rights, health and safety, and anything else that might get in the way of Lord Musk's businesses, will be next on the list for having their funding removed...

      I'm somewhat surprised he hasnt gone after them already, but I suppose he's waiting for the American people to grow bored with the various cost cutting, and so they wont be pay any attention when he starts going after his personal bugbears...

      1. Jedit Silver badge
        Stop

        "when he starts going after his personal bugbears"

        "When"? He already did. Organisations supporting trans rights and transition are under attack, and Musk hates having a trans child (and she hates him). Teslas are the most dangerous vehicles on American roads by a factor of 800% or more, and there's already a bill to destroy OSHA. USAID was a major player in the collapse of South African apartheid.

        Honestly though, every branch of government oversight is a personal bugbear to Musk. He can't stand there being someone who can tell him that he can't do something or have something.

        1. Jedit Silver badge
          Alert

          Re: "when he starts going after his personal bugbears"

          Further to my last: Robert Reich reports that Musk is pushing to kill the Consumer Financial Protection Board. The CFPB is the body that would enforce consumer protection laws on the Twitter-based Visa payment app that Musk signed off on at the end of January. To reiterate what I said yesterday: Musk is removing all control and oversight over his own actions.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

      Meanwhile, across in Tesla, that "bug" where the Model 3's AI4.1 motherboard half fries itself so most of the safety features stop working still hasn't been reported to NIST and Tesla is pretending everything's fine when customers complain, so I'm sure he'll take due care and attention with Federal government data.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

        They don't care. One of the cultists teslas didn't merge correctly at the end of a lane, and was totalled hitting a post.

        He *thanked* Musk for the fact he came out of it without a scratch (the pole, on the other hand, is consulting with its lawyers)

        Post screenshot: https://www.jamiejones.org/misc/Musk_cultist_crash.png

        Post original: https://x.com/MrChallinger/status/1888546351572726230

      2. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

        The more unfixed flaws in Teslas the better, double good if they refuse to fix them. Hurt the people who support the Nazi. (Yes I have sympathy for those who bought before he made it impossible to deny he's a Nazi, but he's made it pretty obvious for 2+ years what kind of person he is so if you own a 2023 or newer Tesla my sympathy is extremely limited)

    3. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

      Cancel his contracts, that'll help drain the swamp

    4. Snake Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: How about rooting out all that corruption at SpaceX?

      You misunderstand: corruption for the capitalist class is a feature, not a bug.

      Remember, slaves were happy working in the fields and you should be happy, too, getting injured or dying on the job for their cause.

      Because move fast and break things. As long as it's not them getting broken.

  3. lsces

    What constitution

    So when will Trump follow Putin and campaign to change the constitution so he does not have to step down in 4 years time?

    1. Phones Sheridan
      Black Helicopters

      Re: What constitution

      Proposals already made.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: What constitution

      Changing the constitution is difficult. Much simpler to back-door the treasury and install someone about as bad as Musk at OMB. Anyone with the authority to kick out an ex-president can be de-funded and have their record of employment with the US government expunged and replaced by a Trump supporter. Extra road blocks can be introduced by blocking future elections so there is no replacement candidate. Tax records can be falsified so opposition candidates will be found guilty of tax fraud. The current strategy to to break laws so rapidly that no-one can keep up. It is the published strategy to limit bad news.

    3. Blazde Silver badge

      Re: What constitution

      Even Putin didn't serve 3 terms straight up, he found a willing lackey in Medvedev. Trump could do similar because his endorsement may be worth a lot in 2028 (depending how the next few years go). He'd just need to find someone he held enough power over to keep them in line.

      I think his bigger problem will be being an old senile cunt 82. That didn't go well for Biden.

      1. Phones Sheridan

        Re: What constitution

        I read an article the other day, that stated there is nothing in the constitution to stop him becoming vice president after his second term, and then succeeding the presidency for a 3rd term, if for example the actual president stepped down.

        1. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: What constitution

          > if for example the actual president stepped down.

          Mind yer step, luv, we just polished those stairs, that nice Mr Musk gave us a big bucket of wax.

        2. Blazde Silver badge

          Re: What constitution

          Yikes. It looks unambiguously ambiguous to me. So one for the Supreme Court to untangle. Which is better than it being a full-on loophole.

          The Vice President's primary role is being a back-up President so the intent of the 22nd amendment should presumably be to prevent a two-term President running for Vice too, especially given the wording around those succeeding a President for 2 years or more only being allowed one term. But they messed up not stating that explicitly.

    4. katrinab Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: What constitution

      More likely he will just de-fund the election process, and sack anyone who tries to get in his way. As far as I can see, the constitution no longer exists. It only ever existed because there was law enforcement who were prepared to uphold it.

    5. DS999 Silver badge

      Fortunately

      Changing the constitution requires not only 2/3 of congress (which he will never get) but 3/4 of the states, so that road is blocked to him. It is a good thing the founders had the foresight to not make that congress only, as that could work if he had his DOJ start indicting democrat congressmen and putting them in jail without bail. Then the quorum is smaller and they could hit the 2/3 threshold. But needing 38 states makes it an impossible task.

      He'd have to corrupt the Supreme Court even more than it already is and have them decide to simply ignore something stated in plain English. They haven't come close to going that far yet.

      This assumes he lives long enough for that to matter, and I'd say odds are less than 50/50 given his terrible diet and his pronounced mental decline in just the last couple years. He's gonna have big stroke soon....fingers crossed!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Fortunately

        That’s OK, the Supreme Court is so corrupt now that, for the proper consideration, they’d be willing to declare the Constitution unconstitutional.

  4. abend0c4 Silver badge

    More vulnerable to hacking

    The systems have already been hacked, in full public view.

  5. blu3b3rry
    Devil

    But how could this happen?

    I thought Elon coded twitter X himself. At least, all his (p)sycophants said so.

  6. xyz Silver badge

    Aye...

    It's one thing scripting an access to AD (for example) stuffing an IIS box (for example) onto the network and sending spam to the workers and it's another thing hardening it all.

    Then there's probably the eejit who copied all the data to a db on his/her laptop and took it home to play with.

    1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Aye...

      Only one part of the treasury's IT system needed hardening: Marko Elez had write access to the code. His obvious first step would be to add hardened back doors for remote access by anyone at DOGE.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Aye...

        I'd guess they also have a source code repo and it's so easy for changes to be accidentality lost in a merge.

  7. nichomach
    Big Brother

    But we know, of course...

    ...that however hard that judge slams the stable door, the horse has not only bolted but flipped the bird to the law on its way out. That data is now irrevocably in the hands of Musk and his sturmtruppen.

    1. AVR Silver badge

      Re: But we know, of course...

      And whoever hacks them can also get a copy, which was the judge's point I think.

      1. Alumoi Silver badge

        Re: But we know, of course...

        And whoever pays them can also get a copy. Right?

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: But we know, of course...

          "And whoever pays them can also get a copy. "

          It's a weapon and you don't sell weapons if you are waging war, you use them.

      2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

        Protection racket

        I was pondering whether they would leak it themselves so they can continue accessing it. And then use the leak as a justification for their further involvement to "protect" the system from hacks.

        In other news, I see Musk has told Trump not to pay US debt ("Treasuries") which is pretty much what he did at Twitter. The world can survive a few companies doing that. The world's largest economy is a different matter. I don't know enough to fully understand the implications. (Waiting for Krugman to write on it.) But the dollar would stop looking like a safe haven and a good store of value if a mango dictator can refuse to pay you back your money.

        1. beast666 Silver badge

          Re: Protection racket

          China has the world's largest economy.

          2nd is USA

          3rd is India

          4th is Russia.

          All by PPP. Check the IMF, World Bank, CIA etc etc.

          1. LBJsPNS Silver badge

            Re: Protection racket

            https://www.investopedia.com/insights/worlds-top-economies/

            We already know you lie. What's insulting is that you do it so transparently and expect others to swallow your nonsense.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Trollface

            Re: Protection racket

            Aww, no, I'm sorry sweetheart, I can't give you any points for the Economics round.

            But remember, you still get a 5 point consolation bonus question!

            Complete the following word: EDG_L_RD

            The clue is: Peering into a mirror, you will see one.

          3. AVR Silver badge

            Re: Protection racket

            PPP is useful when considering poverty levels, but not at all when considering international financial flows - which is the subject here.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apparently it's not the role of judges

    to decide what is or is not illegal. It's now POTUS

    or so J.D.Vance is tweeting.

    If Americans allow this (and despite all that guff about the second amendment, they seem rather placid) then the coup is complete.

    The only joy will be watching SCOTUS dismissed as an irrelevance. They greased the way.

    1. Wang Cores

      Re: Apparently it's not the role of judges

      Trying to save people from themselves is futile. Gotta let them bottom out first.

  9. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Comment fields must always be used

    Hmm.

    Financial transactions - those will be the ones with identifiers that link back to the relevant department, contract number, recipient ame/title/shoe size etc. To let you dig up all the *standard* information when you want to audit it. The sort of database stuffed full of boring repetitive transactions that just went through without any drama.

    But every now and again, Something Happened that isn't completely covered by the usual tick boxes ("The dog chewed up his paycheck, issued duplicate"). So you can add a comment to explain what is going on.

    And one of your department's self-assessment runs is "count how many times we had to use the comment field" - because too much use of that indicates that the other fields are not adequate at capturing Real Life, so you ought to look into tweaking something.

    So, Musky has just spotted something he can claim is some kind of inefficiency/corruption ("See, they are deliberately leaving this blank! What are they not recording? What are they hiding?") and then initiate "an improvement" that'll just mean wasted time typing "Same as last month" on every janitorial paycheck, makes self-assessments less useful/efficient...

    But it means he can squeeze out another self-congratulatory Xit, which is the important thing.

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: Comment fields must always be used

      All of which is trivial compared to the other things he is doing, but shows that even the smallest demands are ill-considered.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    White House tech support

    "Have you tried turning the Constitution off?"

    "Don't you mean, off and then on again?"

    "No, no, don't think that'll be necessary".

  11. Bebu sa Ware
    Facepalm

    In Australia, Space Karen would have his arse in a sling, cooling his heels in a cell.

    No court in any Australian jurisdiction would take such an outrageous, reckless and unsubstantiated allegations of the corruption of the presiding magistrate by an identifiable public figure without that court's hauling that imbecile's sorry arse before it on a contempt charge.

    In the past, judges (at least Assize Judges) "were the King" so I imagine an affront to a judge was an affront to the King and arguably lèse majesté. I wouldn't be too upset if Musk and fellow travellers met the traditional traitor's end - from soup to nuts - the bowels and intestines with head on a spike.

    1. midgepad

      Re: nuts

      For treason the nuts were ... involved, also.

    2. Cruachan Silver badge

      Re: In Australia, Space Karen would have his arse in a sling, cooling his heels in a cell.

      Shows how bad the law is in the US. Anyone else calling someone "pedo guy" based on their appearance (and daring to call out Musk's ignorance) would lose their case in short order. Musk won his and very quickly. His overlord if he was anyone else would also have had at least a night in the cells for contempt for referring to the judge in his trial in the terms that he did so often.

      As we know though, in MAGA land corruption is defined as "doesn't agree with Trump", which would actually make Trump himself corrupt given how often he contradicts himself.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: In Australia, Space Karen would have his arse in a sling, cooling his heels in a cell.

        Corruption is now good for business, according to Trump’s latest executive order telling the Department of Justice not to enforce the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which makes it a crime for US companies to bribe foreign officials.

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/02/10/trump-pauses-doj-bribery-laws-for-us-firms/78392744007/

        In Trumpworld, declaring lies a “fact sheet” is a nice touch

        https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/02/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-restores-american-competitiveness-and-security-in-fcpa-enforcement/

  12. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    With us or against us

    This is how fascists always seize power, steal democracy.

    Anyone who dares stand up to the mob or its leaders will find themselves demonised as an "enemy of the people". They will often end up against the wall or swinging from a lamppost.

    "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: With us or against us

      As pointed out in yesterday's Metro (UK), the public have the right to 'bear arms' in case their leaders start to get out of order and try to dismantle the Constitution...

  13. Howard Sway Silver badge

    a new requirement… all outgoing government payments have a payment categorization code

    Ha ha ... space genius thinks he's thought up a great new innovation for getting more useful insight into costs - he has however just reinvented that hoary old bit of administrative bloat known as the Cost Centre, where every payment has to be assigned to one and only one departmental budget, and vast amounts of time get wasted arguing whether a new toner cartridge should be assigned to "001678393 Admin : Office consumables", "003774874 IT : General equipment" or "008372916 Marketing : Mailout costs". This sort of stuff is generally done so badly by the people who think it up and the people who have to work with it that the resulting data is of poor quality and little practical use.

  14. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Elon Musk appears to have referred to Engelmayer in a Xeet that reads “A corrupt judge protecting corruption. He needs to be impeached NOW!” He offered no evidence of corruption.

    I can see him being pardoned for contempt of court. Repeatedly.

  15. Omnipresent Silver badge

    WAS hacked

    The US treasury WAS HACKED by doge.

    1. beast666 Silver badge

      Re: WAS hacked

      Beware the MIBs. Lol

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Trollface

        Re: WAS hacked

        Mindless incoherent bollocks?

        You don't scare me.

        Come on edgelord, fight me.

      2. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: WAS hacked

        Miami International Boat Show? Pres Trump doesn't do boats after his last one was taken from him when he went bankrupt.

  16. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

    Most of what Der Fuhrer Drumpf is attempting to do is at least as illegal as his previous attempt to overthrow the duly elected United States government when he lost the last election.

    No wonder he didn't put his hand on the Bible while "swearing" to "defend" the Constitution of the United States. He knew full well if the Devil's son did that, his hand would burst into flames!

  17. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    "Elon Musk appears to have referred to Engelmayer in a Xeet that reads “A corrupt judge protecting corruption. He needs to be impeached NOW!”

    He's sounding more and more like Trump every day. Every accusation is a confession. Choose another way to broadcast your bullshit, Elon, you are still trying to convince people that you are clever.

  18. imanidiot Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "Over the weekend, the home page of the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CBFP) started to produce a 404: Page Not Found error - the seeming result of a reported decision to shut down the agency for at least a week. The Bureau’s activities include advice on how to avoid phishing and identity theft."

    Can't have a federal agency that provably protects consumers against the maliciousness and uncaringness of banks, credit card companies, pay-day loan scum and other financial "institutions" now can we? The poor must be exploited without any pesky, (rich people) money wasting bureaucracy to protect them!

  19. Gribbly

    How come no one seems to want to raise the subject that one of the PFY's working for Musk (Ethan Shaotran) wrote a program for manipulating voting machines for a hack-a-thon back in 2020 while he was a University of Georgia?

    Doesn't smell at all funky to anyone?

  20. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Why, just why?

    Giving Elon access to sensitive information fills me with dread. There shouldn't be a reason for it either. If the goal is improving efficiency, it's the process, not the data that needs analyzing. A subtlety that would be lost on Elon, for sure.

    The US Congress can be their own worst enemy when it comes to waste. In a rush to provide hand-outs during lockdown, they didn't stop to figure out how to make sure those payments wouldn't come with a healthy dose of fraud. It was more important to send out checks as fast as possible. Death-row inmates and 'businesses" that never did any business applied and received big payouts. While some of those have been identified and charges brought, the money isn't going to be recovered and put back. More money is being spent to pursue those cases.

    I know my local city is rife with inefficiency. The people that work there can't get two things done in a single day. Records a couple of years old are stored across town (about 3 miles) from the city hall and they charge $150 for retrieval if they need some old plans when you apply for a construction permit. Are they using that money to digitize that flammable and decaying pile? No. They see Code Enforcement as a profit center so it's difficult to have a business in town. That big fat woman (I think it's female) drives around town in a giant dually that gets single digit mileage. I expect it's not gong to fit in a Prius.

  21. AskJeevesAI

    Trump & Musk.....Private Sector Salesman......Havent got a clue........

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