Trump's Dept of Transport hits brakes on Biden’s EV charger build-out If you were hoping the Biden administration's $5 billion investment in building a cross-country network of EV chargers would soon have you road-tripping in an electric car without range anxiety, think again: The Trump-led US Dept of Transport has put the plan under review and halted new funding. In a letter [PDF] to state- …
Europe is a different place from the USA.
Most Motorway/AutoStrada/Autobhan etc service areas have at least one DC charger. Many sites are building out with large numbers of chargers. One that I know has 48 150kW+ DC chargers.
More and more supermarkets/malls are getting DC chargers. One near me is about to commission 7 150kW DC Chargers. Even my local Tesco supermarket has a 50kW DC charger. Many, many McD's have a couple of 100kW chargers.
It is a different world over here.
In the USA, there is clearly something fishy going on with this Gov money. Perhaps a lot of it is tied up in projects that are still in planning or early stages of construction?
We know that BP is investing heavily in DC chargers at TA service areas. IF you doubt me then google. https://www.bp.com/en_us/united-states/home/news/features-and-highlights/bp-pulse-opens-first-charging-site-at-a-travelcenters-of-america.html
"In the USA, there is clearly something fishy going on with this Gov money."
To get the money, it can take ages and hiring somebody that knows how to navigate all of the government forms. The scammers have become very good at getting the US gov to give them money, pocketing it and walking away.
"They're SUPPOSEDLY going in at places like interstate highway rest stops"
That would be great, but many states have strange regs when it comes to highway rest stops which is why they aren't like the motorway services that can be found in the UK. At best, there many be overpriced vending machines and one piddly 50kW DCFC that may or may not work.
Elon Musk usually seems to be pretty focused on whatever single task currently is on his mind.
So I'm not sure if he already has become aware how severely his little political enforcer-type adventure game for the extreme right in the U.S. and Europe is throwing Tesla and all its shareholders under the bus at the moment...
However, maybe at least some Tesla Shareholders are plotting some form of revenge on Musk?
Pretty lame deflection at this point.
Face it: No on is "cutting out government waste and corruption". At this point they are not even any longer pretending, they are.
They are tearing down rule of the law and installing their approved type of waste & corruption like a "Faith Office" in the White House...
In short: They are doing exactly what they wrongly accused others of doing for years.
@AC
"So cutting out government waste and corruption is now 'extreme right'?"
Of course it is. If it was someone other than Trump there would be debate and a range of opinions. Because its Trump you must either be against it or far right maga nazi or something.
Funds from the VW dieselgate got sent to the states to be spent on EV charging. Florida got $166 million of that. $25 million was supposed to go to EV charging infrastructure.
I started investigating when I got curious about a charging station that's been "coming soon" in Titusville on PlugShare for several years.
These grants were supposed to be secret, locked behind a passworded page, but I found the spreadsheet on Google with the addresses of the chargers that were supposed to be put in. There were 32 sites listed. I found it by putting in the address of that charger.
For example, Blink got $12.5m and pledged to put in 52 chargers at 25 locations in a 27-JUL-2021 press release. The addresses are listed in the spreadsheet.
How many are installed now in 2025? NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA.
Of the 32 sites in the spreadsheet, TWO have been installed. One is at Walt Disney World in a locked employee parking lot. And another one is at a Hampton Inn, reserved for guests only.
So for $25 million granted, we got 2 chargers, neither of which can be used by an everyday taxpayer.
So if this is an example of an "EV charging rollout" then yeah, I say fuck 'em. Terminate it.
Now you see why that spreadsheet was secret.
I am all for governments cutting projects which don't deliver, purely move tax payer's money into the back pockets of the rich and wealthy - Tear it up, start again, do it properly, deliver what people actually need.
But I am under no delusion that this is what Trump is doing. It's simply a move to put tax payer money into the back pockets of a different elite, those who support his dictatorship, while killing the emerging 'EV revolution' which is already being held back through lack of charging infrastructure.
Anyone who thinks Trump is in it for anyone but himself and his sycophantic big business pals is an idiot. American citizens are simply a resource to be squeezed dry.
Half of American voters were turkeys voting for Christmas and now all America will have to suffer the consequences.
"while killing the emerging 'EV revolution' which is already being held back through lack of charging infrastructure."
The EV revolution started when a single company decided to build out its own charging infrastructure without waiting for the govt to do it for them. Now the big govt bailout receiving auto makers are desperate to cash in on some of those sweet sweet handouts. I don't recall petrol stations having to be built by the govt...
Seems to me that the issue is with the handling of the money by individual states. Perhaps in at least some of these cases, there is a two prong strategy whose aims are to (a) embarrass the party holding the presidency at the time and (b) funnel money to the well connected.
"How many are installed now in 2025? NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH. NADA."
Did they get the money or were they only promised the money? Did the site get approved/planning permission? What were the terms since there can be really bizarre requirements when the government gets involved?
They got the money up front. As far as I can tell (I am not a lawyer) there are no performance metrics attached, such as example requiring a certain percentage installed by a certain time or they forfeit money.
The grant *is* the planning permission. It's "we have this list of predetermined addresses, who will put chargers there?"
What I don't understand (except "it's Disney") is how places like Disney and hotel chains got sites included that aren't open to the general public.
Blogger Kevin Drum (of Friday Cat Blogging fame) has posted several pieces on this.
Per Drum:
This whole thing got started by Politico, and it's so tiresome I want to scream. The plan from the start was to have 500,000 charging stations by 2030. Why so long? Because the money was allocated by state and wasn't allocated all at once.The facts are simple. In November 2021 the Bipartisan Infrastucture Law approved two programs for an EV charging network. NEVI is the main program, and it got $5 billion over five years. CFI is a smaller program meant to fill in gaps in underserved areas, and it got $2.5 billion1.
He also reports
There have now [as of November, 2024] been 126 chargers built using NEVI funding. The first chargers built using CFI funding also went up last quarter, including a mega-station in Washington state, for a total of 210 chargers, triple the 69 that were finished by last quarter.At the current rate, we'll have more than a thousand charging ports built by the first quarter of next year. The ultimate plan is to build 500,000 charging ports across 100,000 stations by 20302. (interpolation mine)
Bear in mind this is government, not to mention Federal government and things do move slowly. But, also bear in mind, that for the most part they do so for very good reason.
Early on in my career, I worked in and around the US Civil Service, first as a contractor then as a government employee, and, yes, rules and red tape were often annoying and frustrating3, but more often than not, the rules were there for a reason -- someone at some point played fast and loose with the government's (yours4 and mine) money or resources and the rules had to be put in place to prevent a repeat.
Was there "waste?"
Sure.
But private industry can also waste tons of money and resources.
Metaverse, anyone?
_________________
1 No, we haven’t spent $9 billion on eight EV chargers
2 The federal EV charging program has now built 210 charging ports
3 Oh, the tales I could tell. . .
4 Assuming you're a Yank reading this.
Here's the Blink PR release I mentioned
https://blinkcharging.com/news/blink-charging-awarded-grant-funds-for-the-deployment-of-dc-fast-chargers-at-25-locations-by-the-state-of-florida
Here's the spreadsheet now presented as a PDF
https://floridadep.gov/sites/default/files/EVCI%20Phase%202%20Awardees.pdf
So a (possible) example of actual waste for DOGE to investigate?Perhaps they should start their housecleaning closer to home?
Yep. It doesn't really fit the meme that Trump & Musk are in bed together, merrily looting & pillaging the USA when this, plus other actions by Trump directly affects Tesla's EV and charging businesses. But it may be something more suited to the DoJ-
The program has awarded more than $500 million to 37 states and territories of America for the development of EV charging stations. However, only 14 of them have managed to build at least one operational station, according to EV States Clearinghouse.
And as another poster pointed out, in Florida, the state awarded millions to developers who've pocketed the money and produced.. nothing. But there's still a risk that Trump/government decides that there will be one charging network to rule them all. From friends who have EVs, they curse that the rollout of charging points has been so sketchy. So drivers needing 17 apps on their smartphones to deal with all the incompatible charging stations. A 'universal' charging network that mirrors the current petrol/diesel one would be a lot simpler, ie I don't need a Shell and seperate Esso or Tesco app to fill my car with gas. I just need $,£ or maybe in future, DOGE coin.
A 'universal' charging network that mirrors the current petrol/diesel one would be a lot simpler
But the aim is (allegedly) to reduce the role of the federal government. The failure of the NEVI seems largely to be down to the states who were responsible for the implementation, not Washington that simply provided the funds but doesn't have the power to intervene in the actual construction. Arguably that's an incentive for Washington not even to attempt such interventions, but electors expect their governments to deliver stuff, even if the system is broken.
If you're going to have a joined-up country, particularly in the face of massive corporations that have economic interests in competitive barriers resulting from incompatible standards, you need a central government with teeth. Which, of course, is why the US government is presently being defanged.
It's very easy (as was the case with Brexit) to whip up negative sentiment about remote bureaucrats issuing diktats, but if you want things to be "a lot simpler" you probably will regret their passing as your local bureaucrats and their vested interests are likely even worse news.
If you're going to have a joined-up country, particularly in the face of massive corporations that have economic interests in competitive barriers resulting from incompatible standards, you need a central government with teeth. Which, of course, is why the US government is presently being defanged.
Or it's being refanged. It's like you say about Brexit and good'ol Project Fear. Depending on which side of the fence you sit, the sky is falling, or it isn't. It's also nothing new in US politics, eg Donald Rumsfeld was the proto-Musk, brought in to apply industry knowledge & make government more efficient. But that's just politics.
So depending on PoV, Trump is either killing off EVs & chargers, or applying a pause so that it can be done properly. Which is kind of where the Musk effect or influence may come in. So governments occasionaly do useful things, like define standards. So I can go to any gas station and fill my car without a trunk full of nozzle adaptors. Which is a good thing because that means I won't be spraying gas everywhere due to using a cheap chinesium nozzle adaptor.
EVs don't seem that smart, especially when talking about power cables and power levels that were normally best left to qualified electricians. So..
Zeekr Power is beginning to build a fast-charging network in China with charging stations with a maximum of 800 A and a continuous output of up to 600 kW. 1,000 locations with 10,000 charging points are planned by 2026
With stuff like liquid cooling for the cables.. Which would provide for 'fast charging', but also plenty of potential for letting the magic pixies run free, explode battery packs and cause mayhem & chaos.. Especially when this stuff is intended to be self service by consumers who sometimes drive off with petrol hoses still attached. So for safety, it would seem sensible to define a standard that all EV manufacturers and importers must follow so EV drivers are less confused and don't meet ol'sparky.. Which then just leaves payment, so perhaps the standard should also include the ability to pay for a charge just using cash/credit/debit cards. If operators want to offer 'loyalty' cards, as regular gas stations do, then that can be supported.
Currently the system seems a total mess, although admittedly my experience is from talking with friends, and also a few videos from RichRebuids on YT showing the FUN! he's had driving an EV on moderately long distances around the US. But it's also one of the reasons I'd never buy an EV at the moment. If I'm low on gas, I know I can just pull into the nearest gas station and fill up. Being able to do that in an EV seems much more of a gamble.
Yes, Musk and Trump do make unlikely bedfellows, though both are driven by personal greed and power and narcissism.
Does Musk really care about EV's? He saw a gap in the market. A big upcoming market. He knew it would take the slow rumbling big car companies a lot of effort and expense and upheaval to get into that market. He simply bought the ability to put these things together, knowing that if they were suitably overpriced he could initially sell them to those with more money (than common sense, or they knew what to do with?), who could afford money to burn on the latest shiney toy to show off in, regardless of how long it lasted or how well it was built. He knew all along that eventually the big players would get there, but he could have a 10 year head start. Hopefully by then he would be able to make them well enough and cheap enough that they become a mass product.
I expect he will eventually bail out of Tesla and let the company whither away or be taken over by the big boys. By then he will have other power toys to play with - possibly running to be future president of the United States of Canada and its Southern Territories (or whatever the north american subcontinent may be known as by then).
"So depending on PoV, Trump is either killing off EVs & chargers, or applying a pause so that it can be done properly. "
He's agreeing with those that feel the government shouldn't be paying to install charging anymore than they should be subsidizing petrol stations. I don't see why taxpayer money should be spent on this. What would work much better is to get the process streamlined so it's easier and less expensive in fees to get stations built. That costs nothing although cities wouldn't be able to put the screws on companies via all of the fees they tack onto construction projects.
If you look at McDonald's and how they build restaurants, they have a set of pre-designed/pre-approved plans and choose one given the needs of the location. All of the engineering is done and signed off. There's cut lists for the materials. A complete BOM from start to finish and every gas/electrical fitting is defined down to the mm. If, in the US, states could implement a process where the same thing can be done for charging stations, all that's left is the details of where the site is, where certain things get planted and that's it. All of the wire gauges/routing and termination details are defined and approved. The cabinets that house the electronics are all pre-certified along with the stands. That should make it a matter of ~30 day from breaking ground to turning on the power for a charging station. If they "combine shipping", several sites could be planned at one time so there isn't one big site with a gazillion stands nowhere near anything. To build several smaller stations in an area usually means separate usurious fees for each site, but makes the most sense for travelers. They can pick a lunch spot and find charging adjacent to the restaurant rather than having only one choice nearby.
"plus other actions by Trump directly affects Tesla's EV and charging businesses."
Maybe if Tesla had opened up their charging network to every other EV, there would be some affect. Not all of Tesla's chargers have been opened up to other makes, the V2 chargers are incompatible, Tesla is putting the squeeze on other manufacturers for their EV's to be able to work. I know the Tesla V4 chargers work with other models as they speak CCS. I also think there's a V3 variant that works fine for CCS. Outside of the US and China, Teslas use the CCS standard. In the US, Tesla uses their formerly proprietary plug and in China, they use the Chinese national standard. I'd have to refresh my info on Tesla chargers, but I think the most prolific V2's are only good up to 400-500v so EV's with 800v architecture don't charge anywhere near their top speed.
If Tesla doesn't want their charging network to be completely open, fine, they shouldn't be eligible for any grants. The SAE J3400 charging standard will be rolling out in the US which uses the Tesla plug and the CCS communication protocol. It will take a while to get switched over since most charging companies want to install more sites rather than spend money updating old ones.
The super wealthy of previous centuries used to spend their ill gotten gains on monuments and on planting avenues of trees - not for themselves directly, since they wouldn’t be alive to enjoy them, but as an Ozymandian reminder to future generations. It was the plutocrat equivalent of the rattle can. I woz ere.
The current, nouveau riche, ill bred, variant has no such cares. It’s more a case of what can I grab now - but building a lasting legacy isn’t a concern at all it seems. Weirdly, Trump has children. Many of the others have children too. Whilst they may not care about us peasants, you’d think they’d want to bequeath their own descendants breathable air and clean water. You’d think it was in their own families best interests to stop digging up dinosaurs and start building proper, renewable, infrastructure.
They seem to believe an apocalypse of some kind is already baked in and are using the intervening period to accumulate sufficient wealth to ride it out.
And as a fair number of them seem to be eugenically-inclined, they can start a new and better world with their superior genes.
With luck, there's sufficient intervening time to improve on robot technology, as it might be hard training the cockroaches to pour the perfect G&T. Or indeed change the nappies of their multitudinous offspring.
It should not have to be a V8:
"The Model T has a front-mounted 177-cubic-inch (2.9 L) inline four-cylinder engine, producing 20 hp (15 kW), for a top speed of 42 mph (68 km/h). According to Ford Motor Company, the Model T had fuel economy of 13–21 mpg‑US (16–25 mpg‑imp; 18–11 L/100 km)."
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T#:~:text=The%20Model%20T%20has%20a,11%20L%2F100%20km).
Well there is over $4bn still in the pot.
“ But it allows for the potential resumption of the program once officials "have determined that such disbursements are consistent with any review recommendations they have chosen to adopt."
I am sure Musk will put forward a case for that money to be awarded to Tesla to build out a charging network…
The Orange Jesus is just holding off to give Musk time to create a new Swastika shaped charging plug and make the Merkin EV chargers only compatible with those. The whole idea is protectionism to stop German auto imports. The plug is to be specified in "Freedom Units" which is ironically what the Republican Merkins call the Imperial British weights and measures units.
Although people say that Musk is a Nazi, he can't be because they made good cars.
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There have been a few articles that have investigated why charger deployment under NEVI has been so slow.
One reason is because all charger deployments, with and without NEVI funds, have been slow. Every physical site has unique requirements. Utilities are slow to bring in new power feeds. Equipment vendors have long backlogs. State and local regs are a patchwork that also drive site-specific requirements.
On top of those issues, NEVI brings in ever more hassles. NEVI requires that chargers be manufactured in the US. The reimbursement process is one of the most complex systems that state transportation departments have ever worked with. And NEVI has minimum requirements for charger count and power.
States have a formula for determining where new stations need to be located based on NEVI requirements. States then send out requests for bids to build those stations from the private sector. Sometimes, sites don't receive any bids. Other times, the bids don't meet guidelines.
TL;DR: what looks easy on paper is extremely complicated in action
"States have a formula for determining where new stations need to be located based on NEVI requirements. States then send out requests for bids to build those stations from the private sector. Sometimes, sites don't receive any bids. Other times, the bids don't meet guidelines."
I see all of that work done by The State to be useless. Private charging companies will do their own research on where it's best to put a charging site. EVgo, Chargepoint and Electrify American have been doing it long enough to have loads of data to help guide decisions on new build and expansions. If a site isn't getting any bids, the companies that know whey they're doing can see it's not viable. Sites that are viable might take too much faff to process the government NEVI paperwork and companies are better off doing the construction separate from that program so the site is up and earning much more quickly.
I'm all for having things made in the US, but there are reasons why they might not be. Likely that there are so many regulations in the way that it's not viable and much less expensive to pay the tariffs to import something. The chargers are also going through a maturation phase which means that there aren't as many trained engineers and technicians with experience in making them yet. Even if somebody wants to open up a plant in the US, finding the people they need and getting everything designed and tested will be time consuming and expensive. Government needs to ask themselves what they can do, aside from handing out money, to make that go faster. A foreign company that has a product could open up a plant if it were financially viable and just send profits back to the home country. Other than a few jobs, what is that getting the US? The bulk of the "value-added" is elsewhere.
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