back to article Even Windows 10 cannot escape the new Outlook

There is mixed news for Windows users. Microsoft has released a patch it claims fixes the DAC problem. The bad news – for some users – is that the new Outlook for Windows app has reached Windows 10. The preview update rolled out over the last two days, with patches for Windows 11 22H2 and 23H2 (KB5050092) released on January …

  1. ComicalEngineer
    Happy

    As outlook has never been installed on my Win 10 machine I shall be immune from the embuggeration and annoyance of this latest downgrade and instead will remain with Thunderbird.

    1. SomeRandom1

      You'd think - they'll still force it on if you have an Internet connection. No-one is allowed to escape, not even those who don't want Outlook!

      1. MrMerrymaker

        I don't have it on my Mac

        1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge

          ... yet.

          I'm sure they're working on it.

          1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

            Linux here. I'm laying low.

    2. isdnip

      I never did either. (I'm using Windows 10 Pro.) And there's no Outlook in my Microsoft Office folder, though I do subscribe to Office 365 and did not ask for its Outlook. (I use Thunderbird or Betterbird.) However, I just peeked and indeed there is now an Outlook in my start menu. And it runs. I don't know if this is the same program that Office uses or just an update of the old Outlook Express or Windows Mail, both of which were atrocious. The Windows Mail that used to come with Windows is not there any more, not that I've looked since getting this machine a few years ago. So somewhere along the line MS apparently installed this "Outlook" in one of its updates.

      The previous Windows Mail had the interesting POP limitation that it lacked the "keep mail on server" option, so ISTM if you ever actually used it with POP on your mail server, it would download once and delete everything right then and there. Malignant. I don't know if that has been fixed as I'm not going to trust this on my real mail server.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "I don't know if this is the same program that Office uses or just an update of the old Outlook Express or Windows Mail, both of which were atrocious."

        It's the new one - it's automatically been installing itself on all W11 machines for a while, and now it's W10's turn. It's not related to the unlamented Outlook Express or Windows Mail (which as you say were atrocious) - New Outlook is based on the web app code base, but with just enough differences to make it confusing to users. It's marginally better than Outlook Express and Windows Mail, but that's a very low bar, and it is still utterly shit!

    3. David Hicklin Silver badge

      Another Thunderbird user here, looking forward to the post end of support to stop all these stupid, unneeded updates taking place!

    4. ReggieRegReg

      Thunderbird user here too - but I do get the sense that access to outlook accounts via Thunderbird is throttled. It flies on all my other types of account but crawls at 56K modem speeds when dealing with Microshaft accounts.

      1. LBJsPNS Bronze badge

        That's what you get for having a MS account.

        1. ReggieRegReg

          It was Hotmail when I set it up - a week after Hotmail went live! It not a trivial endeavour to replace your main email address when it's knocking on three decades old! I do split out email duties now - trying to wean myself off hotmail...

    5. Richard 12 Silver badge
      Devil

      No such luck

      "Old" Outlook has never been installed on my Win10 machine, yet "New" Outlook suddenly appeared a few days ago.

      Add/Remove Programs refused to uninstall it, too. I'm not sure how to get rid of it.

      1. druck Silver badge

        Re: No such luck

        You seem to be under this impression that it is your machine, Microsoft says otherwise.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Oh no you won't be immune! It won't matter what's currently installed, assuming they adopt the same tactics as with W11.

      We've got a few W11 machines used for system management functions which just have a local account and nothing installed apart from the software needed for their function (certainly no Office programs or email clients) and New Outlook appeared on them after an update (yes, I removed it promptly).

      If using Intune, it's advisable to set up both an app rule to uninstall Outlook (New) - which should really be called Outlook (Beta) - from everything, AND a Powershell script to have maximum chance of removing it from all managed devices!

    7. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

      Don't worry, the New Outlook will be part of the February "security" updates if for some reason your computer was spared this month.

      And if you are a Microsoft 365 Apps user, it will be part of update 2502 in any case.

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Most versions of Windows 10 are rapidly approaching the end of the road. Support is due to end on October 14. While Microsoft has shown no desire to keep affected versions supported past that date"

    With those reluctant to upgrade hardware even more reluctant if tariffs hike prices MS is set to make a fortune on an extended update service. I wonder what the annual cost of that will be compared to the one-off OEM prices it would have got for new W11 licences.

  3. Someone Else Silver badge

    "We recommend you move to new Outlook or Outlook.com Linux, where we don't have the power for faff about with your day-to-day applications."

    There, FTFY

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Happy

      >we don't have the power [to] faff about with your day-to-day applications

      Lennart Poettering, now a proud Microsoft employee, reads this and sniggers.

  4. User McUser
    Flame

    I'm sorry, *what*?

    Support for Mail and Calendar ended on December 31, 2024. In a support article, Microsoft said, "You can no longer able (sic) to send and receive emails or events using Windows Mail and Calendar."

    Did they seriously put a kill-switch in that app? And if so, why would they think I would ever trust them again?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

      Again?

    2. kmorwath

      Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

      If Windows mail used SMTP/IMAP/POP I can't see why they should stop working unless MS decided to cripple them from remote. Or maybe, given the syntax of some of those messages, the ones writing them have no clue about what they are talking about.

      1. Bebu sa Ware
        Facepalm

        Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

        "Have no clue about what they are talking about."

        Could be the Microsoft corporate motto although it's the leitmotif running through the entire industry.

      2. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
        Terminator

        Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

        I can confirm that they have killed it with an update.

        And the "new outlook" crap doesn't support an account where the username is different to the email address. As such, Thunderbird has gained a new user.

      3. Eecahmap

        Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

        The wording "you can no longer able" reminds me of many e-mails I've received from people living and working in south Asia.

        Like losing the distinction between "few" and "a few", I suspect it's considered a correct construction in that part of the world.

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

          "All your e-mails are belong to us!"

    3. vekkq

      Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

      They forcefully installed the new Outlook for the past half year whenever you started Windows Mail or Calendar and the second time you started Windows Mail it would quit and boot Outlook instead. You could not stop it. At best you could repeatedly uninstall Outlook.

      Because of this, the rating in the Microsoft Store for the new Outlook plummeted to 2.2 of 5 . MS then edited the rating to 3.6, despite its chart still showing an overwhelming bar of 1 star ratings. Since then MS deleted the bad ratings.

      Microsoft, business as usual.

      I switched to a new E-Mail client and I'll be back to Linux by the end of the year.

      1. X5-332960073452
        Thumb Down

        Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

        Just checked the Microsoft Store (2nd Feb), has an overall 4.6 rating.

        All the 'most useful' comments are one star, with relevant explanations.

        Seem to be many five star 'bot' type account ratings, MS's new way?

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          Re: I'm sorry, *what*?

          Micros~1 have been lying cunts for so long, they, like the new American President, don't know how not to.

  5. Fonant

    The "New Outlook" takes great care to send all your email to Microsoft servers for "storage" (quite probably, "feeding AI learning").

    1. kmorwath

      Evidently if MS is ready to give away "for free" all the needed storage to keep a copy of all users email, regardless of their mailboxes size, evidently it has a return.

      That said, it could be interesting to set up systems to fill MS servers with petabytes of useless stuff...

      1. Nick Ryan
        Happy

        Most organisation are way ahead on that task...

      2. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

        The storage is courtesy of some organization located in Maryland, near Tipton Airport, I heard...

  6. Nate Amsden

    kind of confused

    I'm more of a Linux person though I do use Windows 10 LTSC 1809 in a VM as my main windows desktop for work stuff mainly.

    I looked it up again to confirm, MS says they will support classic Outlook until at least 2029(I assume for users of LTSC 1809 which has support till 2029 as well?). Users can continue to use/install classic Outlook until the "cutover" phase which as of Nov 2024 has not yet been specified, and when it is, there will be at least a 12 month time before it takes effect. Maybe the situation is different for personal accounts(vs accounts associated with a company that has office365).

    https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/outlook/new-outlook-for-windows-a-guide-to-product-availability/4078895

    Kind of ironic I regularly get warnings in MS teams saying classic teams is not supported, so I should upgrade, but the newer teams is not compatible with LTSC 1809 as far as I know, and the "fine print" (last I checked) said MS will continue to support classic teams on LTSC platforms until their EOL.

    I do see a "try the new outlook" option in the top right of my outlook on Win10, I have not tried it, I'm kind of assuming it would not work (like newer teams won't work) due to the newer system requirements.

    Most of my outlook usage is OWA from my Linux system but sometimes I do use the classic outlook to do some things.

  7. kmorwath

    "We recommend you move to new Outlook or Outlook.com"

    Which is almost the same, since Nadella has decided he can take control of your email credentials and impersonate you to bring all of your messages into his Azure servers, where he's free to peruse them at will to train AIs, and if kindly requested, submit them to the US government because of the FISA and CLOUD Act. Even worse, MS is potentially able to send message using your credentials. Or it may be a good defense "sorry judge, MS has a copy of my credentials - it's not beyond any reasonable doubt that I, and I alone, sent that message..."

    How this blatant Microsoft-in-the-middle attack is not under fire by privacy regulators probably shows how little they understand about technology. Hope Schrems kicks in and strikes a god blow to this attack on users' privacy by Microsoft, especially since MS is very quiet about his approach, and doesn't inform users correctly.

    Mail providers should also launch a suit against Microsoft for anti-competitive behaviour, since users may end to directly store their emails on Azure since everthing ends alread there.

    Did you think Balmmer was bad? Nadella is far, far worse. His contempt for all those dalits using Windows is incredible. And moreover, he's also killing the Outlook applications to save on development, assigning it probably to the same group developing outlook.com. Without understanding Outlook + Exchange are those few applications that kept people using Windows desktop and server. Give them a GMail feeling, and they can switch easily to something else.

    So, unless you have already messages stored on Microsoft servers, stay far away from the "new" Outlook...

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      You nearly had an up vote

      but then you mentioned GMail.

      Google is just as bad as MS for slurping you life away.

      1. kmorwath

        Re: You nearly had an up vote

        Did you read? I compared the new Outlook to GMail - they are both bad, but if people feel that using one or the other is the same thing, Microsoft is going to lose the advantage a native mail client gave to them. Probably Nadella doesn't know why Outlook won and Lotus Notes lost.

    2. Locomotion69 Bronze badge

      Re: "We recommend you move to new Outlook or Outlook.com"

      I moved away from Mail to Oulook on my Win10 box ages ago, just to find over time that for reasons unknown to mankind, opening mail takes ....forever....

      I called Thunderbird to the rescue -> no such issues on Win10.

      Therefore: We I recommend you move to new Outlook or Outlook.com Thunderbird.

  8. Too old for this sh*t
    Facepalm

    New Outlook

    But still doesn't support on-prem exchange

    1. kmorwath

      Re: New Outlook

      I think that today in Microsoft if Nadella hears you saying "on-prem", he gets you fired.

    2. Nick Ryan

      Re: New Outlook

      Nor does it support shared mailboxes (absolutely critical for many organisations), nor does it properly support multiple mailboxes or properly support mail accounts that are not Microsoft 365 Exchange, it's slower than normal Microsoft Outlook, the formatting options are incomplete and so much more.

    3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: New Outlook

      Dont you love American freedoms and competition.

    4. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

      Re: New Outlook

      Worse: it doesn't properly works with mailbox delegation...

      Nadella should has his personal assistant what he/she thinks of that version, if he can handle the flames...

      Or perhaps he is using Clippy instead of a real person?

  9. Woodnag

    prevent installation

    Martin Brinkmann has details how to prevent installation... regedit is yer friend, innit.

    https://www.ghacks.net/2025/01/29/latest-windows-10-update-installs-new-outlook-app-automatically

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: prevent installation

      ...until Microsoft decides to "accidentally" or otherwise (depending on how blatant they're feeling) ignore that registry key.

      I am still bitter about their killing off of all the 3rd-party tweaks that removed the completely obnoxious "Microsoft Points / Use Edge / Use OneDrive" banner from the Settings app. "You WILL be confronted by this every time you open Settings..."

      1. Kev99 Silver badge

        Re: prevent installation

        As the man said, regedit (and UltraFieSearchLite) is your friend. It's how I permanently removed copilot and edge. I'm hopeful it'll work for outlook. BTW - Take a look at all the complaints about how the current outlook refuses to send messages. Definitely another mictosoft feature.

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: prevent installation

          Typical, having to root around at a low level command line to fix things on Linux...oh wait!

  10. chivo243 Silver badge
    Meh

    Outlook for work

    All I get is ticket update notifications, and the usual HR spam. Sat Nad is welcome to them... I hope he finds them as boring as I do.

  11. Cloudseer

    What a sad state of personal computing.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge
      Linux

      Not entirely.

  12. Zebo-the-Fat

    Windoze 10 may get Outlook, but I don't have to use it!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Proton mail here.

    I've pretty much completely dropped gmail now.

    For the last several years Outlook has been nothing but a nightmare for the few folks I help....It's annoying when these companies get a bug up their ass to change things and don't care how hard it makes it on 90-95 year old folks. I've got 3 of them that do great....but these changes generally make it impossible for them.

  14. FirstTangoInParis Silver badge

    New Outlook on Mac ….

    … running 365 is missing the Next & Previous message arrows that have been in Outlook 2xxx for Windows since forever. They are not even in the things you can add. And the threading is a bit naff too.

  15. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
    Pint

    SFW Link

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ec/23/1e/ec231e888797b05a29a66bf9db0c3ade.jpg

    OK Beer O'clock

  16. UncleDavid

    And Copilot Everywhere has infected Outlook ad badly as the much derided appearance in Word. Much worse from the viewpoint of this 40-year keyboard warrior is that it has stolen control-A for activation, so for select-all I have to find the mouse and drag it around.

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