Damage control.
DeepSeek stirs intrigue and doubt across the tech world
In a busy week for GenAI, the tech industry is weighing the impact of the latest interloper on the LLM scene. China's DeepSeek shocked stock markets on Monday, slashing $600 billion off the value of erstwhile AI golden child Nvidia. As the dust settles and the markets recover, the industry is questioning the implications and …
COMMENTS
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Friday 31st January 2025 21:39 GMT The Dogs Meevonks
I've been saying all along, that LLM's are just this decades latest pyramid scheme... just like all the other pyramid schemes we've had over the last 30yrs.
Late 90s... the dot come bubble, that burst because billions invested, not enough people online to use/trust new online market places.
2000's... everything went digital, which meant mostly a case of... slapping a tiny LCD on the same old shite and jacking up the price... along with social media and look at the bollocks that quickly became.
2010's... the cloud and crypto... the enshitification of the internet begins with the advent of subscription fees for everything, apps that now require accounts and data slurping to do something within your own home that doesn't even need an online connection... and of course crypto... the ultimate in pyramid schemes loved by the money launderers.
2020's... NFT's and LLM's... and more crypto scams.
It's all shit, it all needs to die... LLM's have a use within industrial areas, they're used to great effect to spot medical issues in scans and so forth... actual creative works... art, music, writing... fuck off.
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Friday 31st January 2025 21:41 GMT The Dogs Meevonks
The backlash started within 24hrs.
"They stole our models and distilled them for their own"
You mean the models you built by stealing pretty much the entire content of the internet, music, art, books, journals, scientific papers... some one else did to you what you did to everyone else.
Boo fucking hoo you pathetic incel tech bro... suck it up buttercup, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, buy fewer coffees and eat less avocado on toast.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 18:44 GMT Ken Hagan
Training data
It is quite likely that the Chinese models have a very different training set. The US models appear to have been trained kn "any and all the shit we can scrape off the web", which is a very large dataset for anyone with deep enough pockets to pay the leccy bills.
Someone training a model behind the Great Firewall might be forced to find an alternative source, and might solve the problem by creating a smaller but more carefully selected dataset (perhaps using cheap labour, which does at least have the merit of being real intelligence).
If so, a comparison of the models' performance might be quite instructive.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 19:49 GMT heyrick
Re: Training data
Well, it's a very small example but asking for something written in BBC BASIC, it gave me source code that resulted in a working program. It needed a few tweaks (the key codes were wrong and it was aimed at late 80s hardware so needed to be gently massaged to work on a Pi type machine) but it worked.
I have yet to get ChatGPT to offer me a program that functions. In fact, some of the ones ChatGPT has offered me have been so gonzo (throwing in random bits of other BASICs) that I gave up on trying to get it working.
That's not to say it's perfect, however. It knows me and when I asked it to summarise my medical situation, it said that I had been undergoing chemotherapy for cancer. Right story, wrong human. ChatGPT, on the other hand, claimed that I had (an unspecified) chronic illness that left me with severe pain. Like, WTF?!?
Anyway, in terms of making obscure code, DeepSeek did much better.
In terms of making a medical summary based upon what I've talked about on my blog, both failed miserably. And that should be used as a very concise example of why we need to have the following rights enshrined in law: 1, to be notified when decisions are made using AI; 2, to be given a copy of the decision reached, along with any justification if applicable; and 3, the right to request a review by a human (that cannot be refused). Just because an AI can examine things and summarise them doesn't mean the result will even slightly ressemble reality.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 20:21 GMT Outski
We just had some fun with this.
"Umbrella movement Hong Kong" hit idle for a while then regurgitated symbolism of protest movements.
"Jimmy Lai", very similar, international provocation, troublemaker, et al, ad nausem, no mention of being a newspaper proprietor offline and online.
"Bersih 2.0" - bit of a curveball for DS - this was a Malaysian protest movement in the noughties (our apartment was 500 yards from the maternity hospital that was tear-gassed), but it was the square root of eff-all to do with Hong Kong, but that's what DS tried to link it with.
"Why was Kate Adie in Tianenmen Square on 4th June 1989 - "Who's Kate Adie", followed by obfuscation, referencing govt archives, but basically 'bury them in paperwork', it was so long.
"What is the Republic of China?" - "[ think ]**"... disclaims any knowledge after 1949.
OK, might have been a bit sus of us asking 'provocative' questions, but on a highly unscientific test, it dunt look great.
*FYI, they were all framed as questions, not keyword searches
** DS uses angles when it's 'thinking', which ElReg's comment forum doesn't like - fair enough
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Friday 31st January 2025 18:56 GMT ReggieRegReg
Of course - it's no different to ChatGPT. this is why ChatGPT follows the standard narrative - the web is censored by the globalist tech industry. so ChatGPT follows the same narrative. I wonder if the model gets a feed off X these days? I bet it doesn't - or it's only allowed to store it but not use it to seed new neural pathways in case the model becomes diseased with wrong-think.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 20:32 GMT that one in the corner
We believe very strongly in understanding what's really going on
That is not the attitude to take if you want to be successful with an LLM chatbot.
Closing your eyes, crossing your fingers and hoping The Beast won't do anything to embarrass you before the IPO, that is the winning strategy.
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Friday 31st January 2025 03:50 GMT xyz123
OH Noes! Nvidia lost 0.3% of its share price, it's doomed! DOOMED!
It only looks like a lot because NVIDIA is worth $3,000,000,000,000 !
And it turns out deepdesks ACTUAL ability is on par with Chatgpt 0.9 Alpha or earlier!
So a shitty model but with less resources. Because instead of running in CUDA it runs in a lower level language PTX.
A re-write of ChatGPT would end with the same speed increases.
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Friday 31st January 2025 10:11 GMT mpi
Mind providing some sources for these numbers?
Because Nvidia lost almost 600bn in market cap:
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/27/nvidia-sheds-almost-600-billion-in-market-cap-biggest-drop-ever.html
Which is a 17% drop in stock price, and a new record. From the article: "the biggest drop for any company on a single day in U.S. history."
Also, what evaluation does this statement come from: "And it turns out deepdesks ACTUAL ability is on par with Chatgpt 0.9 Alpha or earlier!"? Source? Links?
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Friday 31st January 2025 11:27 GMT sketharaman
I registered for DeepSeek 3 days ago. I got a message saying "We're subject to malicious DoS attacks and are going slow on approving new users". I've still not received the email verification code required to login. Then Alibaba announces Qwen that it says outperforms DeepSeek. I'm beginning to wonder if DeepSeek is a serious AI product or a psy op for High Flyer / CCP to short the US markets and rake in a cool half a trillion bucks in one day.
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Friday 31st January 2025 17:45 GMT ReggieRegReg
Isn't it funny?
A huge global disruption - just as the wrong man takes control of the White House. Do you think the globalists are trying to kill off any economic prosperity before it actually happens rather than waiting 'til year four like last time? I can understand why, look who's waiting in the wings. Someone with Trump's laudable anti-globalist agenda but isn't a giant orange idiot - a big, big threat to the elites - they cannot allow Vance into office for eight years - he will undo 40 years of "progressivism" - I think he may have an even bigger target on his back than baby hands.
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Friday 31st January 2025 23:46 GMT ReggieRegReg
Re: Isn't it funny?
A 12 year run at the White House (Trump+Vance+Vance) is enough time to bring down the outsourcing model, crashing the Chinese economy - this will put the globalists' project back 40 years - or even end the CCP giving the poor Chinese people freedom at last. The irony is if China carried on its pre 1970s slow-growth isolationist model it would have survived a crash pretty unscathed, the people have tasted the modern world and are connected enough to know what's happening when it all goes horribly wrong so the CCP couldn't blame their way out of it - we think we are completely dependant on China - but they have 1.5bn mouths to feed, not enough food and no domestic oil - this could unravel VERY quickly. However - if Putin goes in some sort of coup, my money is on China invading Russia for oil - we'll sit back gleefully watching the Ruski's taking a kicking - the worst mistake we'll ever make. China + guaranteed oil supply would be the end of the west - and it will certainly be the end of the 1% who the CCP will take out. Anyone who's foolish enough to think they control China is beyond deluded, unfortunately the 1% have bet our lives on globalism winning too. When the British Labour government gave the USSR the jet engine, Stalin said "only a fool gives their secrets away to their enemy" - we've given everything to China. Their size is their only weakness and denying them oil is our only hope of keeping the west intact. The west could yet win - if we can keep China from taking Russian oil.
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Friday 31st January 2025 23:46 GMT diodesign
"the globalists' project"
I sometimes think the meaning of life is realizing there is so very rarely any grand hidden plot or secret conspiracy steering whole populations, across the political spectrum.
Yes, administrations and organizations can and do have overall goals and programs for achieving those. They are mostly public. The CCP makes no secret its censorship and authoritarianism, for instance.
But this idea that there's super smart scheming people (usually business people) secretly cooking up plots to overhaul the world -- globalists, etc -- is wishful thinking, in a way. There isn't anywhere near the level of intelligence, competence, and orchestration going on. There are no Bond villains with uber-contrived plans.
Everyone is winging it. Sometimes, interests align and patterns form -- or patterns are perceived.
C.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 00:30 GMT ReggieRegReg
Re: "the globalists' project"
Have you read any of Charles Schwab's work? He makes no secret of the WEF's intentions and what is in store for us useless eaters - and it just so happens the policies of the entire western world over the last 25 years seem to be edging us closer to what he predicts for our future.
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