Sounds good.
Trump eyes up to 100% tariffs on foreign semiconductors, TSMC in crosshairs
Americans could soon see the price of electronics skyrocket in response to a 25-100 percent import tariff on computer chips promised by US President Donald Trump on Monday. "In the very near future, we are going to be placing tariffs on foreign production of computer chips, semiconductors, and pharmaceuticals to return …
COMMENTS
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 05:57 GMT BenMyers
Rubbish!
All that the tariffs would do is raise prices for buyers of products, because THEY pay the tariffs, not the country that exports its stuff. This is utterly brain-damaged thinking by the US felon-in-chief, who only wants to look out for himself and his personal mafia, and to hell with regular everyday Americans. Did I mention that the lizard-felon is pissing off a lot of countries, and his reasoning is always half-assed.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 15:58 GMT MonkeyJuice
Re: Rubbish!
To be fair, this seems to be an extension of Biden's desire for rapid on-shoring of fabs. The clock is ticking for Taiwan, and unlike Ukraine, trade disruption from there will kick them where it hurts. Corporations will do absolutely nothing unless they feel it in their bottom line.
It is still a rather blunt instrument that is going to mostly screw the US consumer though.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 23:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Rubbish!
>To be fair, this seems to be an extension of Biden's desire for rapid on-shoring of fabs.
Trouble with all this magical thinking is it was US companies not Taiwan (or China) that designed, paid for and built the offshore fabs - the reasoning behind that isn't going to change until tariffs hit several hundred percent.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 22:48 GMT MonkeyJuice
Re: Rubbish!
TSMC is a wholly Taiwanese founded and owned company, and has been since it's inception 37 years ago.
Their in-house fabrication is state of the art, and surpass anything the US has ever produced at that scale. When Apple wanted their custom SoC built, they called Taiwan. Intel do have their own fabs, but outsourced pretty much all of the bleeding edge stuff to TSMC while their fabs caught up. (This is not to say that Intel's fabs can't produce them, but that their yields were far, far lower).
It also made plenty of sense to outsource there, since Taiwan has (had?) a steady stream of gallium and other exotic materials required far in excess of what the US has facilities to produce.
What the US excels at is designing the ICs in the first place, not the wafer manufacture.
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Friday 31st January 2025 22:52 GMT ReggieRegReg
Re: Rubbish!
>"TSMC is a wholly Taiwanese founded and owned company, and has been since it's inception 37 years ago."
Sort of - but the basic infrastructure their tech know how and everything that came from it was a gift from gormless Europe. Looking for enhanced profits from cheap fabrication, Phillips plus partners set up shop in Taiwan with big ideas and a clean slate, they developing state-of-the-art lithographic fabrication techniques in Taiwan, some US fabbers jumped on the bandwagon, recession saw Phillips falling on hard times trying to maintain their mostly out-dated and over-stretched European tech empire and they sold the whole fabrication shooting-match off – which essentially became TSMC and a couple of other smaller concerns. To their credit the Taiwanese continued to pump in the R&D dollars through thick and thin to stay ahead of the competition with plenty of government (and US military!) assistance. Phillips are now a nothing company worth 0.5% of the industry they spawned - they devised and hatched a golden goose and then gave it away.
Trump is right though – the entire west is too dependant on Taiwan, if China invaded we’d have to bomb Taiwanese factories to atoms to stop the Chinese getting hold of them, a kind of a score-draw which would set everybody back technologically – which, ironically, might not be a bad thing. It's clear the 1950s vision of robots enabling luxury lives of leisure for ordinary people is nonsense – we were robots v1 for the rich – the AI revolution will enable robots v2 which will impoverish and replace us. We will become useless eaters – we all know how that ends.
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Sunday 2nd February 2025 14:06 GMT MonkeyJuice
Re: Rubbish!
If Trump is right, Biden was also right.
I don't think either have the brains to figure this out. I imagine this idea has been placed on the Oval Office desk by government strategists multiple times. Let's not give either of these idiots too much credit, neither of them can tie their shoelaces, let alone hold a driving license.
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Friday 31st January 2025 17:31 GMT MachDiamond
Re: Rubbish!
"To be fair, this seems to be an extension of Biden's desire for rapid on-shoring of fabs. "
There's a reason there aren't many fabs in the US. It makes no sense to not build them to the latest state of the art. In the US, the State Department will often restrict exports of the smallest scale processors so it makes more sense to build a fab elsewhere and not have an issue selling to whomever has the money. The USSR could get the parts they wanted and since the highest tech was going towards military applications, the cost didn't matter much. China can create parts domestically since they've been sending their best and brightest to study all over the world for some time now. There's also those constant news reports of Chinese nationals being caught doing a wee bit of espionage.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 18:38 GMT Cris E
Re: Rubbish!
Exactly: Tariffs affect decisions by changing the costs of various options. But when you haven't provided the option you're hoping for it just increases costs without changing behavior. You can't get me to choose American semiconductors until you produce American semiconductors. If they'd put a two year horizon on this to allow some capacity to build up it could do what they want, but they wanted to yell bUY AmeRican NOw! Can't work (beyond the value of the press release.)
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Thursday 30th January 2025 22:23 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Rubbish!
"Do the Trumpisti think that you can ramp up US production in days?"
Funny you should ask! Yes, they do think that. Trump "knows" the construction industry. It's "easy" to build a new factory in a month or three. Fitting it out and getting it to start production is the hard bit that he doesn't understand.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Rubbish!
You are right but your reasoning is wrong.
This is not about helping anyone. Its just republicans playing short term politics. Its about the next primary in two or so years. It does not matter if the policies are nonsensical. Their base is just so ignorant and stupid that they get a lot of political mileage from the announcements.
Nothing they propose now or during his first term made any sense. At least not to anyone who is sensible.
Notice this time around they gave up on trying to find sensible reputable individuals to fill their posts and just went with the insane.
But this is America. You used to have to come here to realize how insane, ignorant and unprogressive the general population is. In this regard the election result is almost welcome. Our leadership is truly a reflection of our society.
Not let the reality show continue.
For people who hang their hats on being Patriots, its hard to understand how they do not see that their rabid base is the greatest threat to America.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 16:19 GMT Excused Boots
Re: Rubbish!
"But this is America. You used to have to come here to realize how insane, ignorant and unprogressive the general population is. In this regard the election result is almost welcome. Our leadership is truly a reflection of our society.”
Being a brit, and working in the IT sector, I have met and worked with quite a few Americans both in person and remotely, and generally (one or two exceptions) found them friendly, intelligent, knowledgeable and not at all thinking of themselves as ‘superior’. Over a beer (or two) in a pub with someone who was the global legal counsel(?) for a multi-national organisation, we ended up chatting about the perception of Americans by the rest of the world.
What he said was ‘you have to understand that every American you meet either through work or as a tourist, is not a typical American, because they aren’t in America, and/or get that there is a rest of the world’ and behave accordingly.
Which is quite sad if true.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 17:31 GMT Snake
Re: having worked in the IT sector...
and therein lies your "problem": you dealt with educated and, more importantly, cosmopolitan individuals who live and work in diverse communities.
Regretfully our "heartland" is full of people who live, and die, inside their closed little locales. After all, gated communities are a thing here. A lot of Americans believe that everyone else should act and believe as they do, to do otherwise is "strange" or even "wrong". A century of Jim Crow displays this notion, anything not us is an "enemy" and needs to be controlled or conquered.
Individually these type of Americans are very nice indeed. The danger is when they group together and enforce their social regimentation on everyone else. We've been trying to drag these
moronspeople into the actual century that they live in for *decades*, but recidivism is a wonder tonic that keeps the rose-colored glasses in place, comfortably in front of their nose, reality of the world be damned.So. I'm not worried about this current administration, it will probably only end up at one of the ends of the spectrum: either they'll do a good job and everyone will be happy, or (much, much more likely) they'll implode everything. Problem? They'll still find another scapegoat to blame for their own (continual) failures and the "low intelligence" voters that they openly cater to won't know the difference.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 18:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: having worked in the IT sector...
"you dealt with educated and, more importantly, cosmopolitan individuals"
"gated communities are a thing here"
Here is the thing, those people you describe first are more likely to live in a gated community than the latter.
"The danger is when they group together and enforce their social regimentation on everyone else"
"anything not us is an "enemy" and needs to be controlled or conquered."
The very playbook of the political left. Forced acceptance, their words from your mouth.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 20:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: forced acceptance
The fundamentalists were not roving the streets in black blok style destroying everything in their way.
You're just sore that Reagan won.
And before you start on trying to claim it was the fundamentalist right lynching people in the south, no, those were Democrat supporters.
And before you bleat 'but they changes sides', almost none of the southern democrats actually went to the GOP.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 23:59 GMT Robert 22
Re: forced acceptance
"And before you start on trying to claim it was the fundamentalist right lynching people in the south, no, those were Democrat supporters."
The parties basically reversed their positions in the mid 1900s. The southern US used to be a Democratic stronghold, now it is Republican. The people who think statues of obscure Confederate generals are a national treasure are Republicans.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 09:13 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: forced acceptance
Sadly in your media induced NPC rage you've missed a key point. The republicans do not see them as national treasures because they agree with the person the statue or monument represents, they see them as important parts of the history and something that should be remembered. Erasure of history is very much a tactic of the political left.
As an NPC you have to forget inconvenient history so that you can continue to rage against a perceived enemy without the slightest twinge of hypocrisy or irony.
A bit like when Trump called Putin a genius. It doesn't mean he likes Putin or what he is doing but he is correct that Putin is clever. Putin waited until there were very weak presidents in the White house before doing anything. Obama when he invaded Crimea and Biden for Ukraine. You've been programmed to see yourself as morally and intellectually superior to everyone you dislike so you cannot cope with any view other than 'durrrr... Putin stoopid!'. And the political left has yet to realise that if you push that ideology you lose. Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris both lost as all they did was attack the other side as stupid yet didn't have any actual policies other than some populist talking points.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 14:05 GMT Snake
Re: forced acceptance
"Sadly in your media induced NPC rage you've missed a key point. The republicans do not see them as national treasures because they agree with the person the statue or monument represents, they see them as important parts of the history and something that should be remembered."
gods, you are both ignorant in in denial.
The statues exist because of the belief of the type of people who DO see things as the Republicans do - the statues around America were mostly funded and raised by the Daughters of the Confederacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Daughters_of_the_Confederacy
as a way to forward and justify their "Lost Cause" agenda
https://www.vox.com/videos/2017/10/25/16545362/southern-socialites-civil-war-history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy
They were pro-KKK, pro-white nativist, conservative pseudohistorians intent on keeping the ignorant belief, as you project here, that these "heroes" are "something to be remembered".
They. Were. TRAITORS.
They rebelled against the *only* legal government of their nation, and they did so for only one purpose: with the Three-Fifths compromise and the Missouri Compromise, the southerners saw that their way of life, based upon free indentured labor (slavery), was being challenged. When it was confirmed that they couldn't, and wouldn't, get their way (the Kansas-Nebraska Act) and tensions rose (the Dred Scott Decision and others), the South had a kanipshin and 'walked out and trying to take their ball with them'.
And the South lost. But conservatives wouldn't have that, so the Daughters went around telling everyone how 'nobel' the cause was - "It was for state's rights!" - not that they walked out because the state's rights they were up in arms about was slavery, and the continuation of same. And conservatives since then have grabbed on to the fake "state's rights!" motto regardless of what the rest of the world has openly admitted as truth, because it serves [your] agenda of victimhood.
So learn something, damnit.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 14:27 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: forced acceptance
"Daughters of the Confederacy"
And they are republican how? And whatever the SPLC says is utter claptrap. They seem a fairly a-political org which has the aim to preserve the memory of those who died and support those who survived.
So anyone mentioning 'state's rights' is really on about slavery? Even centuries past the ending of legal slavery in the USA? (remembering that there are more people in slavery now but we just don't talk about it)
Does this apply to sanctuary states refusing to help ICE?
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Thursday 30th January 2025 22:30 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: forced acceptance
"And before you bleat 'but they changes sides', almost none of the southern democrats actually went to the GOP"
You misunderstand your own history. The Dems and GOP swapped left for right. It was NEVER about people switching parties. The parties themselves switched sides and took their people with them.
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Sunday 2nd February 2025 13:26 GMT Snake
Re: forced acceptance
"No. The only thing that changed was the Dems went from small govt to big govt and lots of govt control. This is not a left/right thing."
NO. NO NO NO NO NO.
Do you know ANYTHING being your media-fed sound bites or are you really just this uneducated???!!
The parties (finally & fully) swapped left and right during the Johnston administration in rebellion against the civil rights movement, started during the Truman administration. Again, the conservatives rebelled against any form of federal administration over civil rights by calling it a "states rights" issue, same way they did for the Civil War, forgetting that the federal government is empowered by the Constitution itself to guarantee individual liberties. Not the states.
And forget about the history (re)writings of one "Dr. Rick Chromey", who holds a directorate in MINISTRY and both works at, and founded, Christian centers and is listed as an "edu-trainer" in his resume. In other words a propagandist who is telling people it was all about "federal overreach", holding dear to the conservative beliefs of one presidential election loser call Goldwater. He lost, and exactly like the 1800's the conservatives can accept loss and simply try to rewrite their memories to adjust to their propaganda.
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Monday 3rd February 2025 09:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: forced acceptance
"Again, the conservatives rebelled against any form of federal administration over civil rights by calling it a "states rights"
So when you use the small c conservatives in this context are we talking about the Democrats who didn't actually support the civil rights act being put forward by their own president or the Republicans who supported it more than the democrats did? Because I don't think the history you are referring to is the way you think it is.
~60% of house/senate dems supported the civil rights act compared with ~80% gop. The southern dems being the most upset. And only ONE, Strom Thurmond(sp?), switch from being Dem to GOP. The traditional southern dem voter for some reason switched to voting gop in protest but when presented with a 3rd party candidate would happily go 90% support for them.
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Friday 31st January 2025 17:35 GMT MachDiamond
Re: Rubbish!
"What he said was ‘you have to understand that every American you meet either through work or as a tourist, is not a typical American, because they aren’t in America, "
That can apply to just about everybody. If they are traveling to other countries of their own free will, they have an interest in that country. I find one of the best things about travel is meeting all sorts of new people. The museum was nice, but the pub could have been a lot of fun. Anybody that has a very insular mindset and thinks of everybody that lives more than 100km away as a foreigner isn't going to travel much.
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Friday 31st January 2025 17:24 GMT MachDiamond
Re: Rubbish!
"All that the tariffs would do is raise prices for buyers of products, because THEY pay the tariffs, not the country that exports its stuff."
If they tariff is only on the semiconductor components, that's only going to hurt any manufacturers left in the US since the tariff on the things they go in to might still be quite less.
There's also the little problem with fabs being extremely expensive to build and also taking a considerable amount of time to complete and commission. If the tariffs were something that would kick in around 2035 and companies building them were assured that the parts made in them wouldn't be restricted from being exported, maybe some motivation could be applied.
The years I had a manufacturing company in the US, government felt openly hostile towards small business in general and manufacturing specifically. Loads of regulations, taxes, inspections, etc. On top of that, the government was happy as clams to buy competing foreign-made products if they were cheaper rather than buying domestically made products. Along side the ages it took to get paid, it became pointless to submit bids on government RFQ's.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 23:47 GMT Doctor Syntax
Sounds good.
It does indeed. A strong dose of reality is just what the US needs. And that PC refresh MS was hoping would bring about W11 uptake suddenly looks a long way away.
I wonder what his voters will think when they discover who really pays tariffs. Of course he doesn't care, he's got his four years. Who needs voters?
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 04:23 GMT HereIAmJH
Elections
Trump isn't who needs to be concerned, it's the Republicans in Congress that will be worried. Trump is term limited, assuming we don't have another Jan 6. But every member of the House is up for election in 2026, and a third of the Senators too.
They made a big deal out of the price of eggs being a deciding factor this election. Something the President has no control over (bird flu). And it took Biden too long to clean up Trump's last economic mess, and didn't bring down inflation soon enough. But last week we narrowly avoided a steep increase in coffee prices because this administration can't be civil to people and fly them out on non-military aircraft without handcuffs. They probably would have used cattle trailers, if there was an airplane equivalent, because demeaning people makes them feel important.
All electronics, all cars, and all durable goods have semiconductors in them. The CPI will take a huge jump like it's the second coming of COVID. Assuming we don't have a second coming of COVID, or something similar, with the unfettered destruction of health agencies in the US.
So maybe some pain is a good thing. Tariffs could push us back into the recession that he created last term; eggs, coffee, iPhones will all become too expensive for the masses. And it will be the death knell for the Republican party. Tell all those enablers "you're fired", and we can talk about a proper impeachment. Why let the record stand at only twice.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 09:17 GMT Crypto Monad
Re: Elections
I might be missing something, but as far as I can tell, so far Trump has only *talked* about such tariffs, he has not implemented them. This has caused everyone to scramble around to ramp up their US-based production as quickly as possible - which is what he wanted.
In the same way, he has *talked* about invading Greenland, which has caused everyone in a mad panic to spend more on defence in that area - which was what he wanted. There was no need to actually invade.
The Columbians tried to call his bluff, but in that particular instance it was so one-sided in the US's favour that they didn't have a chance. There is plenty of non-Columbian coffee on the market.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 10:59 GMT HereIAmJH
Re: Elections
The Columbians tried to call his bluff, but in that particular instance it was so one-sided in the US's favour that they didn't have a chance.
The planes were turned back Sunday morning, and Sunday the Colombian president offered civilian aircraft to bring his people home with dignity. It's a regular occurrence for the US to deport people to Colombia. Something like two planes per week. What pissed off the Colombian president was the use of military aircraft this time. And frankly, with Trump's sabre rattling I can't say that I blame them for refusing US military aircraft of any kind. The US has been known to invade their Caribbean and Central American neighbors. (not even counting CIA operations)
So by the time Trump threatened tariffs, there was already a solution offered. But that didn't soothe his ego. He needed to declare victory and make it look like Colombia backed down.
BTW, note that it's Colombia, not Columbia. Unless you're planning to change the maps of South America too.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:29 GMT Tilda Rice
Re: Elections
They did back down though.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20p36e62gyo
> But that didn't soothe his ego.
Another juvenile perspective. The military craft are adding to existing capacity, simple as that.
Deporting Haitan murderers does not need "dignity"
Or perhaps you'd like this dignified fella living next-door?
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/biden-forever-haitian-gang-member-shouts-fck-trump-thanks-obama-as-hes-detained-by-feds/
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 23:45 GMT Sora2566
Re: Elections
It matters quite a lot, actually. Haitians get deported to Haiti. Colombians get deported to Colombia. That's what deportation is - kicking you out of your "guest" country and returning them to their "real" country.
It's also why you can't deport American citizens, as Trump has promised to do.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 09:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Elections
"It's also why you can't deport American citizens, as Trump has promised to do."
If they are naturalised citizens rather than born in the USA there is a legal pathway for removal of the citizenship. But this doesn't change the fact that your claim is false and a fever dream of the media.
Lets not forget that he has a LONG way to go before he reaches the deportation numbers Obama managed during his tenure as president.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 19:13 GMT HereIAmJH
Re: Elections
Deporting Haitan murderers does not need "dignity"
Every human being deserves dignity. Even if you're escorting them to their execution. And note that the 8th amendment of our Constitution specifically prohibits cruel punishments.
I'm not sure what Haitian murderers has to do with this. Most people deported aren't even charged with a crime. Unlike our felon President.
And I don't see how offering a solution early in the conflict is backing down.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/29/americas/colombia-migrants-deportations-trump-intl-latam/index.html
But OK, Big Bad Trump made a small country pay for the flights to deport their citizens.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 22:44 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Elections
"He needed to declare victory and make it look like Colombia backed down."
That's Trumps MO all over. A "good deal" for him is only good if the other side is publicly shown to have lost. He has no concept of an equal deal where everyone wins. The latter is most often the best deal in the long run too. A "deal" with only one "winner" and the rest "losers" breeds resentment, loses allies and makes the "losers" go off and do deals with others instead.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 20:27 GMT Jamie Jones
Re: Elections
Bollocks. Trump is serious about Greenland.
Theil wants it
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 11:00 GMT HereIAmJH
Re: Elections
Jump on the Trump train, pledge absolute fealty, and you re-election will be smooth as can be.
That is only if Trump can maintain his approval rating. Granted, MAGA, and Republicans in general are really good at turning out the vote. Here in the Bible Belt there is heavy indoctrination in the churches and rural communities. But a large voting block in red states are the suburban families. As long as you keep them fat and happy they will vote Republican. But if Soccer Mom can't afford to buy gas for their SUV to drive the kids to games and McDonalds, they could lose those voters. So Trump may not be needing them to get re-elected, but the GOP certainly does. As his policies systematically attack their bank accounts, the GOP will have trouble when they can no longer blame Biden. It doesn't matter how many billionaires he has funding campaigns if those people will not vote Republican.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 22:58 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Elections
It was funny but also incredibly sad that Trump took the opportunity to mourns the loss of life in the DC plane/helicopter crash to blame "under qualified diversity hires" in ATC on Obama and didn't spot the irony that HE was in charge for four years AFTER Obama and did nothing about it.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 23:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Elections
Now I know you have near terminal TDS but here is the crux of the issue. There has been a steady reduction in the number of controllers over the last 10-12 years.
Someone had the bright idea of going down the DEI route under Biden. The FAA declared 2023 the 'year of inclusion'. Probably paying some overpriced self hating white people to tell their staff they need to hate themselves or something. Their idea was to drop the requirements for one of the most stressful jobs out there.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2025/jan/30/faa-diversity-hiring-practices-scrutiny-long-air-d/
It appears that the tower was short staffed with one controller covering two areas. This is not the first time such a situation has resulted in two planes hitting each other. Us military aircraft are also not required to have their transponder on.
Now the fact they have an airport within spitting distance of the pentagon and right next to the exclusion zone for the mall AND mixing it up with military aircraft, especially helicopters, is bonkers.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 13:03 GMT Jedit
"if those people will not vote Republican"
Trump does not care if they vote or not. He straight up said that if they voted for him last November they wouldn't need to vote again. You can read that two ways. Trump cannot be re-elected under current rules; he's a narcissistic psychopath so party be damned, if he doesn't personally need their vote then it's of no importance to him. Or, and this is in my opinion the more likely explanation, the Republican Party plan to end free and fair elections and Trump let the mask slip.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 23:03 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Elections
And yet they let him do his shit. Are they really that short sighted or have the drunk the Kool Aid? There's only one of him and many of them. Fortunately(?), the margins in the Houses are thin and it only takes a few Republicans who are retiring or changing careers at the mid-terms to stymie is more outlandish plans. If any have enough backbone, principles and bravery to do so in the light of extreme MAGAs actually carrying out some of the death threats made against anyone not toeing the party line.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 13:27 GMT Boring Bob
Sounds good for China. It will take 5 years to build the semiconductor production plants in the USA (if any investors will take the risk as the plants will become obsolete the moment the import tariffs are removed). During which time what little is left of Americain production jobs will have moved to China to avoid the import tariff on chips.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:37 GMT Tilda Rice
>https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-trade-war/
The *** Biden *** administration kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles, for an additional tax increase of $3.6 billion.
We estimate the imposed Trump-Biden tariffs will reduce long-run GDP by 0.2 percent, the capital stock by 0.1 percent, and employment by 142,000 full-time equivalent jobs.
Actual stats, not just mouthing off in these juvenile comment areas.
Biden put plenty of tarrifs on China already. Trump is largely keeping with the a similar level with a couple of extra "targets".
Whether it has Trumps desired effect on more US production remains to be seen. But the sky isn't falling down just yet, and probably won't (not that that will stop the antis spouting their drivel)
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:36 GMT Anonymous Coward
You mean by refusing US deportation flights and showing the moral backbone to send his own 'planes to collect his citizens with dignity instead of humiliation?
Yeah, big win right there for Colombia who have a president that stands up for his own citizen's dignity and faced off against a man who wears diapers and won't even own the fact that he's bald and needs coating with woodstain to look vaguely alive.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:40 GMT Dan 55
He rejected the planes because they transported Colombian citizens in handcuffs, Trump put tariffs on Colombian imports, Colombia ordered reciprocal tariffs, and then once the US changed its plans so they were transported with a minimum of dignity, both sides withdrew tariffs.
If a foreign country expels citizens there's little you can do apart from take them in but you can ensure they're treated like human beings.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 03:39 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Criminals?
They ARE convicted. Many of them are already in prison, and others given bail - some caught and released many times. These are the easy ones to find. They aren't really raiding people's homes or anything like that. The people we're deporting at the moment are literally mostly convicts.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 08:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
Given their Felon-in-Chief I think its plain for the world to see that the rule of law in the USA has been replaced by Might-is-Right.
The purpose of a government that is not morally bankrupt is to protect *all* of its citizens, not just the ones a minority of the populace considers lesser than.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:40 GMT Tilda Rice
Exactly. By definition, if you are legal with a right to work or temp visa and came through a port of entry then you are legal.
If you break into a country without the proper paperwork illegally, then you are a criminal.
Certain brain people can't quite wrap their head around that though. :)
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 20:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Oh dear. You get your news from a biased source, then don't bother to fact check?
What an ignorant bubble to be in.
You know, Colombia had always accepted repatriated citizens, as long as they are treated properly, and not handcuffed like criminals.
That never changed.
So, the final acceptance of them wasn't a "Trump win", it was a Trump loss.
Read some facts
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:02 GMT F. Frederick Skitty
Autarchy (posh name for economic self sufficiency) was a big thing with past generations of fascists. And before some plonker mentions Godwin, check the parallels between Trump and previous fascists. Trump's talking about expansionist policies such as incorporating Greenland into the US, by force if necessary.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 13:41 GMT Jellied Eel
And before some plonker mentions Godwin, check the parallels between Trump and previous fascists
Parallels and fascism can be found everywhere. So locking up political opponents, mass censorship and surveillance, increasing government control of media, restricting property rights.. But that's enough about the last for years of the Democrats..
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: increasing self-sufficiency
All wealth comes from trade. More trade mean more wealth. Autarkies are the poorest societies on earth.
It is still unclear to me whether or not the Greatest Sanest Genius in history actually believes tariffs are a tax on foreign trading partners or not. But he acts like he does believe it.
Americans might get an unwelcome lesson in basic economics the coming years.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 23:08 GMT F. Frederick Skitty
Re: increasing self-sufficiency
The accounts from family members and his academic contemporaries is all on the side of Trump being as dumb as a rock. He was sent to a military boot camp type of school after the administration at the regular fee paying place his family was used to sending there offspring to informed his father that he was no longer welcome. Private schools may love the fees, but they need the reputation from their students getting good grades far more and it soon gets out when the less then stellar students get to a big name university if they help them get there. He allegedly got into Wharton only after his elder brother had a word, and was far ... very far ... from the stellar student he makes out he was.
Fact-Checking All of the Mysteries Surrounding Donald Trump and Penn
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 11:09 GMT HereIAmJH
Re: increasing self-sufficiency
We won't be wealthier. But the upper 1% will be. They make money when money changes hands. Bezos doesn't care about trade deficits. He makes money off of every item sold on Amazon regardless of origin. Their concern is with stock value, inflation, and the devaluation of the US Dollar.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 12:53 GMT Charlie Clark
Re: increasing self-sufficiency
It worked out pretty well for Germany: free trade tends to favour specialisation. This could be agriculture in countries with lots of sunshine and water; it could be manufacturing with good logistics, energy and skilled labour force; specialisation solely over cost of labour has rarely lasted for long. When one country focuses on one or two areas to specialise in, it invariable opens other opportunities for others in other areas and net exports usually run into problems as to what to do with their surplus: Germany has for years being investing its profits in stupid American schemes – infamously writing an already bankrupt Lehman Brothers a big fat cheque.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 23:18 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: increasing self-sufficiency
"Right, so if we offshore even more services to India, more manufacturing to China, and more food production to wherever then we'll be wealthier?"
Is that all you think "trade" is? You seem to have a very weird take on the idea of trade. It's far, far more than the simplistic black or white you imply above.
At the very least, try to understand that offshoring and trade are not the same thing. If anything, offshoring is the enemy of trade because if you offshore your production you are doing so to sell back to your internal market at lower cost and higher profits, not to export. "exports" from offshored production don't bring much benefit to the home country.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 07:28 GMT Trigun
I believe much the same. Going crazy in either direction (closed off one way, globalised to the point of no power the other) is usually a very bad idea. We saw with Covid that some self sufficiency is a very good idea.
Our problem these days is extreme ideology when it comes to this. In my mind it needs to be done from an entirely practical perspective with things like Covid, natural disasters and wars in mind. I think Biden was too globalist and Trump is now maybe heading too closed off. We'll see, I guess.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 15:55 GMT Probie
The principle is a sound one, but the grasp of economics and cost benefit are sorely lacking, makes Reeves look like Adam Smith. Two problems I see
1) The cost of the factory and the staff has to be paid out of the earnings in the USA and the USA alone, the rest of the world has a more generous free trade landscape - they will hem in the USA. If yo cannot make enough profit then you would exit the US market or just put the tariff on the price of the good. It's likely to be the latter.
2) Tariffs are by nature an immense inflationary instrument - put 100% tariff on the Semi Conductor market (which is basically what he is saying) and you add 10% to base inflation rate.
I would feel sorry for you, but he told you what we was going to do, he did not lie and you still deluded yourselves. I am not saying mine are much better at least ours lied (and then made the incompetent decision).
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:32 GMT Jim Mitchell
One of the issues with this kind of trade policy is that importers have no idea what it will cost them on any given date in the future to get goods across the border. Uncertainty kills. One day Colombia is getting 50% tariffs 'cause they pissed somebody off, the next day it isn't. God knows what the tariff structure will be like in 6 months.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:44 GMT cornetman
This happened to us, here in Canada. We ordered a new sofa that was made in Mexico, but when it got to the border, the Canadian government introduced a massive "emergency" duty on them. IIRC a complaint came from some Canadian producers that some of the leather came from China and that it was undercutting them unfairly. OK, well fair comment. But we'd already paid for it and now we couldn't get it into the country. Also, bear in mind the fact that very few people here can afford a Canadian made sofa costing upwards of $5-6K. So no lost sales at all.
What really bit was that our sofa was actually at the border but couldn't make the last few kms to our house. Quite a few people got stung by that.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:02 GMT Jellied Eel
One of the issues with this kind of trade policy is that importers have no idea what it will cost them on any given date in the future to get goods across the border. Uncertainty kills. One day Colombia is getting 50% tariffs 'cause they pissed somebody off, the next day it isn't. God knows what the tariff structure will be like in 6 months.
Thing is tariffs have to be somewhat rational. So if the idea is to encourage domestic production, imposing tariffs on Colombian coffee doesn't really make sense, because although the US are large coffee drinkers, the US doesn't exactly sit in the 'bean belt'. But then the US food industry is closely tied to their chemical one, so be afraid, be very afraid-
As of 2021, no synthetic coffee products are publicly available but multiple bioeconomy companies have reportedly produced first batches that are highly similar on the molecular level and are close to commercialization.
Wash down your meal of faux-burgers or bug meat with a nice mug of fake coffee. No thank you. From 'beyond meat' to beyond a joke. The US could probably(?) grow tea, but it might not be very good, although we Brits could teach our colonial cousins how to drink that properly.
Stuff like semiconductors should be more doable, eg-
Meanwhile, Samsung's Taylor, Texas plant has allegedly faced delays due to poor yields on its most advanced process technologies.
So Texas being home to, well, Texas Instruments. But then TI did that all-American thing and off-shored most of their manufacturing. So tariffs could be a way to bring manufacturing back to the US. Or not, especially if TI's components then have to be exported because there isn't enough US manufacturing to use them. Might create a brief blip in trade balances as components are exported, but probably dwarfed by the value of finished goods (or assemblies) that get imported. Plus the time it'll take to onshore facilities, and the fundamental underlying problems that the US cost base is just waaay higher than the nations that produce this stuff already.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 19:15 GMT Cris E
Tariffs should be designed to alter decisions. You can inflict selective tariffs on coffee because there are alternative sources consumers can turn to, which hurts Colombia a lot but diffuses the higher costs across an entire industry/market and reduces their impact on end consumers. Additionally, messing with Colombia paints them with a pail of uncertainty, which is probably more to the point; if you want to be a dick to Colombia this is the best path because revoked tariffs don't affect customers much at all but Colombia's relationships will be overshadowed by it for years.
That said, the rest of your points are rubbish. Dinging one source of coffee but leaving the rest of the world open does not mean America will turn to chemical-based foods. In fact similar products from other markets will fill in and the tariff could meet its goal. On the other hand the other sources of semiconductors are much harder to find or create, as evidenced by your own quote, and so that tariff makes no sense.
The larger issue of why America needs to start being a dick is a reflection of our new orange hairball of insecurity. A concrete move towards American semiconductor production was far more likely to build that missing local source, at least compared to smashing the industry with huge unavoidable costs. Not sure how that squares with promises to control inflation, but this whole thing is emotional theater and not sound economic policy. Bah, this sucks.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:32 GMT heyrick
Somebody might want to remind the orange prick about the last time that sort of protectionist nonsense was tried, and how it helped to royally screw up their own economy...
Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act (Wikipedia)
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:20 GMT Throatwarbler Mangrove
Oh, it's not? Why the fuck not? We (the US) are literally recreating the exact same environment that existed a century ago. We have a useless, corrupt fuckwit Republican president who was elected entirely because of populist appeal and who lacks any sort of skill to govern. We have a huge economic bubble floating on the back of debt, along with excessively powerful oligarchs (this time based on software rather than oil), and we're implementing policies which caused the Depression last time around. And let us not forget the Oklahoma dustbowl, for which we have an analogous condition in global warming and climate change. The only thing that appears to be different is that the Republicans are actively working to destroy the country rather than doing it incidentally.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 02:46 GMT Dostoevsky
Yeahhhh...
> ...elected entirely because of populist appeal...
That's called an "election." We have those here, you know. People choosing their leaders, and all that?
"We weren't much better off under the last nutjob. Prices kept rising regardless of the money we gave away. Maybe this nutjob will be different."
—Internal monologue of Mr. Average American
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 08:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Yeahhhh...
Populist appeal is when a liar offers easy answers that allow people to believe they don't have to face up to harsh realities.
Said orange faced liars often get elected in democratic elections and then proceed to completely screw over the very people they promised the world to because reality doesn't actually allow them to give the world and when reality kicks in, the people who voted usually find out they are actually worse off than before they believed the liar.
Happy to help explain to you, if you have any other questions about reality and how Trump is lying to you, feel free to ask.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 17:26 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Yeahhhh...
Funny. It seems like slightly under half the population is facing some very harsh realities *right now.*
Or they think they are, because they've been told they are. Meanwhile, the other half is just getting on with life, with the occasional pause to look at the latest from LibsofTikTok, or Sky Australia's 'lefties losing it'.
Yep. You could tell when Biden was lying easily enough because you could see KJP's lips moving. But only 2 weeks in, and they're doomed! Doomed I tell you! The sky is falling!
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:31 GMT DS999
I don't think the Great Depression (which hit Europe just as hard, BTW) is a relevant example
Yes it is, because its primary cause was a worldwide tariff war. Trump threatens the same.
It would almost be worth the US entering a depression to wake republican congressmen up how awful Trump is. If the economy takes a big enough nose dive their fear of losing for supporting the one who got us there will outweigh their fear of Trump making mean tweets about them and primarying them.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 02:49 GMT Dostoevsky
> ...its primary cause was a worldwide tariff war...
No, you mean "its primary cause was a World[wide] War." Fixed it for ya. Only one nation ever repaid its WWI debts to the US. Thanks, Denmark!
The tariffs were desperate reactionary measures, somewhat like a fish flailing vainly after it's been hooked and hauled on shore.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:22 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: "its primary cause was a World[wide] War."
There's always an easy excuse that people can point to because the real reasons are complicated.
Yep, an unfortunate combination of a war, the Spanish Flu pandemic, and even good'ol 'climate change' leading to the dustbowl. Which the US seems to be trying to recreate thanks to a combination of intensive agriculture. Ironic that one of the dustbowl states biggest exports is their topsoil, thanks to poor practices.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:38 GMT keithpeter
Impact?
It takes a bit of time to set up import substitution. You have to
1) Licence IP
2) Build facilities
3) Train employees in the techniques
What do US people here think the impact during the lead time (decade?) might be of higher priced components in electronic products and pharmaceuticals?
[ I'm all for moving away from neo-liberalism, but hitting an existing manufacturing supply chain with a heaviside step function miltiplied bu the height of a skyscraper might result in some initial er - instability perhaps? ]
Icon: local breweries.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 22:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Impact?
You forgot that those engineering electronic and digital marvels are developed to a large extent by knowledge migrant students and scientists as American students prefer law or medical careers over STEM careers as they earn them more.
And those migrant workers are supposed to be kicked out.
It is not that the current administration has any plans to educate more Americans better to take up the required job
So who are the people who can build and work those high tech facilities that should replace the imports?
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Awesome...
Yes, but given the tariffs the shipments need to traced very, very carefully, so add a few months to the delivery time for tagging, processing, handling and, given that the US still tries to sell as backwards (kinda hard now they tanked the whole US AI nonsense), all of that needs to be done on paper becayse automation is too risky with all these foreign computers.
Also known as death by compliance.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 06:05 GMT UnknownUnknown
Re: Awesome...
Dependant on foreign manufacturing of chips, components final goods.
See American Capitalism as the cause of offshoring - stuff used to be made but corporate nickel and diming killed that over the last 50 years. IBM, Motorola, RCA, GE, HP/Compaq/DEC across Chips, Domestic Appliances, Home Electronics….,
How many of the 600m iPads ever sold or 2.4bn iPhones have ever been made in USA or Western Europe.
… Zero.Most made by Foxconn in ‘China’ (say it in a Trump voice).:... It was offensive that Tim Cooke was at the inauguration- as a huge architect of much of this offshored/outsourced manufacturing.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 12:59 GMT Charlie Clark
Re: Awesome...
I also like the opportunities for arbitrage in data centres. Tariffs like those proposed would make them immediately uncompetitive in America but you could be build sham ones and run the calculations elsewhere, even in Europe. Difficult to prove otherwise.
As others have mentioned: Motorola still made phones in the US until recently but these were ones with the most problems… Apple could lauch the A-Phone along the same lines…
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:51 GMT Throatwarbler Mangrove
What fucking dipshits
The fucking Republicans, utter useless and corrupt gobshites that they are, want to move manufacturing back onshore but the ALSO are going to entirely dismantle the public education system in America, making it even worse than it already is, AND they want to block immigration, ensuring that offshore technical talent won't want to come to the US. With no local skilled workforce and no way of attaining one, the only conceivable short-term outcome is massive economic collapse.
If there are any of the aforementioned useless, corrupt gobshites reading this post, I invite a critique of it based on facts and merit, i.e. explain to me how these policies will help America rather than hurt it without using jingoistic phrases or the words "socialism" or "woke." I won't hold my breath because you are, one and all, stupid and shortsighted. Go on, prove me wrong, you empty-headed, thick-witted, addle-pated poltroons.
Oh, I'm sorry. Am I calling you names? Am I hurting your little feelings? Get the fuck over it, you fucking snowflake. Or go crawling on your knees to Big Daddy Trump and suckle on his tiny, misshapen mushroom in the vain hopes that he'll personally intervene and rescue you from the bad man on the Internet who stirred uncomfortable feelings in what little of your soul still exists.
Or you can just click on the "Report Abuse" button, but make sure to revel in your rank hypocrisy having done so after all the hand-wringing about "censorship" on this and other platforms. "One rule for me and one for thee," after all.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 22:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: What fucking dipshits
The Republicans realized early on (half a century ago) that educated people don't vote Republican.[1] Also, educated people demand higher wages or even salaries.
So the Republicans started this war against higher education, or all education.
And now they won.
[1] See the example of Oklahoma that does reliably vote Republican.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:15 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: What fucking dipshits
Now tell us how you really feel :).
It's a gun nation, so it's perfectly legal to shoot yourself in the foot. Twice.
And reload.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 11:23 GMT Wang Cores
Re: What fucking dipshits
I'm convinced all this is is that the Oversized Circus Peanut is positioned to be the Yeltsin for a later Putin.
Once he's done being the wrecking ball, he'll be found incompetent and replaced with a younger muppet that looks like a relief by virtue of not being a blundering loudmouth.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 08:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: What fucking dipshits
For some time I have seen an interesting trend in Republican presidents' mental capacities.
It seems like every elected Republican president since Nixon is deeper into the weeds of dementia. Their vice presidents seem to be trending more around the average and above.[1]
[1] The VPs break the trend when they take over.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:31 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: What fucking dipshits
Or you can just click on the "Report Abuse" button, but make sure to revel in your rank hypocrisy having done so after all the hand-wringing about "censorship" on this and other platforms. "One rule for me and one for thee," after all.
I cba, but at the top of the page there's a handy link for El Reg's rules. Like not being abusive. You can project your Freudian thoughts about Trump all you like in your own safe space, but.. do you really need to be so abusive here?
This short video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LplPi2CxNHI
also explains more.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:51 GMT AndrueC
Excellent. Sounds like there will be some surplus stock available for The Rest of the World(TM) to buy up.
This is particularly concerning because if Trump does move forward with an import tax on foreign semiconductors, US consumers could be hit by a double whammy as a large quantity of electronics assembled in China also contain foreign-made semiconductors.
It's only a concern if you live in the US. For other countries it sounds very much like an opportunity.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:00 GMT tfewster
I predict that all the big US chip consumers will move their consumption abroad, by building datacentres in a business-friendly country like Ireland. Services can be provided from anywhere, as we know.
- No tariffs on chips, check.
- Secure access to the European market, check.
- Low taxes, check.
- No living on tenterhooks waiting for the next wobbly from El Trumpo, check, mate.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 07:40 GMT Trigun
Re: Tariffs = twatenomics.
It depends on if cheapness of product is the goal. To me it looks like he's trying to use tariffs as part of his negotiations for the most part to get to that point, while (re-)asserting U.S. dominance in the face of an aggressive China and Russia. I'm just guessing, of course. The one thing which worries me a little is Greenland.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 19:57 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tarrifs work both ways
We've just lost a large order for a US company that was looking to buy our parts, one big reason was the cost uncertainty due to potential tariffs from UK.
So we'll done Donald.
However a day later we won a much bigger contract from another company in Europe that is dropping its US supplier, due to, get this, the risk of retaliatory tariffs.
So, well done there???
You see, one this businesses hate is uncertainty. And that's all he is doing
BTW Donald. How are the price of eggs doing?
What's that? Prices up 22% since you came into power?
Wonder why.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 06:41 GMT UnknownUnknown
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
We keep hearing about a US trade deal food, chlorinated chicken/hormone fed beef.. prices etc.
As a regular US visitor…, I’m constantly shaking my head in disbelief about the prices in US Supermarkets - yes even including US flavoured Aldi and Lidl.
Significantly higher than UK across pretty much every food category and also non-food.
With the vast economies of scale of US/Canada … I really don’t get it….. other than visibly brands dominate… whereas in UK own-brand is FAR more pervasive.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 07:50 GMT Trigun
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
This may change in the UK. Our current Labour government seems to have people in it who don't know what they are doing (like most of our governments since Blair in the late 1990s) - or they're simply malignant. They're currently in the process of taxing the ever living heck out of us via various means, one of them by hiking employers National Insurance which makes it way more expensive to employ people. This is going to cause price hikes all over the place and also prompt all of the companies to shed staff ASAP before the changes come in (including making it really difficult to get rid of the bad employees). It's to the point that all the banks, supermarket chains, hospitality industry, the unions (they usually like Labour a lot), etc are all telling them it's suicidal. Yet they're still doing it.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 09:26 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
Food is expensive in the US largely because supply is controlled by 4 or 5 large companies which in some areas are effectively monopolies (e.g. eggs) and in others form a cartel. An inevitable result of successive governments not enforcing existing legislation on anti-competitive behaviour (see also the US health industry).
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:37 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
Food is expensive in the US largely because supply is controlled by 4 or 5 large companies which in some areas are effectively monopolies (e.g. eggs)
Along with some other curious Americanisms. Like overprocessing eggs to make them more expensive to produce, and then keep in refrigerators. Never really understood that one, or how we Europeans have survived so long happily eating unrefrigerated eggs.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 20:56 GMT MachDiamond
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
"Yeah, for some reason they wash them in a way that destroys the outer protective coating thus reducing the shelf life dramatically. Refrigeration helps a bit."
And then there's the practice in Europe and the UK of wrapping every piece of produce in cling film that doesn't happen in the US.
With the price of eggs gone through the roof, I need to go introduce myself to the neighbors that have chickens I can hear. If I'm going to pay Silver prices, I'll get them from a neighbor.
Like many things that are different in the food chains of different countries, the question "why" is either that there's a regulation in place that says it must be done that way or the chance of a food borne illness is high enough that the extra step is less expensive than yet another lawsuit in the land of ambulance chasers. In most other contexts, the answer to "why" is "money" or sometimes, "because we have always done it that way".
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Saturday 1st February 2025 20:49 GMT MachDiamond
Re: Tarrifs work both ways
"whereas in UK own-brand is FAR more pervasive."
It might depend on how much TV one watches. I'll buy the brand name when it's on offer, but own-brand the rest of the time. I tend to cook from basic ingredients rather than warm up ready meals out of the freezer. This lets me spice and season to taste and even if the brand is tastier than the store's own version, mine is still better. Some things I buy semi-prepared to save time and to get something that I don't have the ability to make at home for a reasonable price and go on to improve it from there. When I go to a restaurant, I'll get dishes that don't make sense to prepare at home unless I just need a fast lunch while out doing field work and feel my blood sugar dropping.
In the US, supermarkets operate on thin markups so the money is being made elsewhere in the chain. This is part of the reason there can be food deserts in high crime areas. The stores can't absorb much Shrinkage due to theft and have to close. If they just mark up the prices to compensate, some mob will come along and publish a story that they are gouging the poor neighborhoods. Close those stores and they don't lose money and don't take PR hits.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:22 GMT VoiceOfTruth
Hahahaha. How I laugh
TSMC started doing the USA's bidding vis-a-vis China. Now it gets shanked in the back.
The world needs to get it into its head: when the USA says it is number one, everyone else is at the bottom of the heap. Yet still the idiots keep sucking up to the USA. It's probably due to all the spying that America does around the world - it knows the peccadillos and indiscretions of the politicians. BUY AMERICAN GAS OR IT WILL BE MADE PUBLIC. Yes, Oh Master. How far do you wish to shaft us?
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:42 GMT skpirate
Ready Shoot Aim
Trump is simultaneously threatening to impose tariffs on Denmark if they don't sell Greenland to the USA (residents' opinions on the matter be damned). This gives Denmark enormous leverage to hit Trump back by imposing an export ban on ASML's photolithography equipment to the USA. Still let them sell to Intel, Nvidia, etc - but only at their fabs outside the USA.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 19:22 GMT Ken Hagan
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Almost certainly the confusion, but to answer the question anyway let me observe that during the Brexit negotiations the EU was conspicuously united behind Ireland whenever the Irish border and the Anglo-Irish agreement came up. The success of this policy did not go unnticed either in the UK or in the EU countries themselves.
It is very likely that any Trumpian bullying against any EU state will be met with a response by all of them
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Friday 31st January 2025 09:53 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Almost certainly the confusion, but to answer the question anyway let me observe that during the Brexit negotiations the EU was conspicuously united behind Ireland whenever the Irish border and the Anglo-Irish agreement came up.
When this first came up, I read the actual agreement and from memory, it doesn't actually mention border/border controls explicity. It seems to have been one of those implicit things that became exagerated to escalate something that was a bit of a non-issue. Or just one of those interesting bits of geopolitics, ie the obligation for EU members to secure their own borders, not EU neighbors. Or the challenges of complying with treaties and agreements between neighbors that pre-date the EU, or EU requirements.
It is very likely that any Trumpian bullying against any EU state will be met with a response by all of them
Or.. not. The EU has exclusive (in)competency wrt trade, and rules that some decisions require unanimous or majority votes to implement them. So if Denmark gets Trumped, and other member states see a benefit for their own state, the EU might do nothing.. Or Macron announces he'll send French troops to Greenland to defend it against any potential US invasion. I'm going to miss Macron when he's gone.
But on the upside, the UK is sovereign and can do its own thing. On the downside, we have Starmer, who'll probably be a good puppy and do whatever the US wants. But Trump also doesn't seem to like Starmer much. Labour sending staff to help the Harris campaign wasn't the smartest move.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 01:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Denmark being a part of the largest trading bloc in the world, that's bigger than the fucking US economy, may be why. Don't forget that many of those EU countries are also in NATO and getting really pissed off about Trump's "percentage of GDP being spent on defence" bollocks when they spend a way higher percentage than the US and are far closer - often bordering - the biggest threat to global security.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 08:35 GMT Joe W
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Some of them spend more (and are really close), many spend less. Which... yeah, we love peace, but it is no longer our choice, so we should increase that spending. Do I like it? No. Hate it. Do I see the neccessity? Unfortunately.
I grew up in the time when the iron curtain was falling, and the following twenty years would be what I consider "formative", traveling all over the world, to once forbidden cities, meeting young people form all over. Now some... fuckwits (sorry, I tried to think of a polite phrase) are taking that from us. I really wonder how the students I met then think of their country now?
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 08:41 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Trade is at an EU level. If Trump puts tariffs on Denmark, the entire EU responds with tariffs or trade restrictions that affect all member countries.
So, either Danish companies will use an offshoot in the rest of the EU to export (missing the tariffs) or the entire EU will put tariffs or restrictions on goods - such as semiconductor lithography - for the USA. Probably both.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:39 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
How can Denmark impose an export ban on a Dutch company's products to the US?
That one's easy! Denmark lobbies the EU for export tariffs, and because trade is an EU-exclusive (in)competency, the bans/tariffs would also be imposed on the Dutch, whether they want them or not.. Which is a problem the UK doesn't really have due to Brexit..
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 19:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Ready Shoot Aim
Yes, IIRC there is a chapter on export tariffs on cereals in Adam Smith's book.
The aim was to keep enough food in the UK. These were times where famines still occurred.
Export tariffs, or regulations, are used to prevent stuff from being exported. Export of gold and silver was often restricted when these werr still used as a monetary standard and reserve.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 20:52 GMT mark l 2
If the US doesn't have the capacity or facilities to make semiconductors in the quantities that American companies need then they have no choice but to import them, pay the tariffs and then pass those costs onto the end user. As its not like you can just magic up US semiconductor fabs overnight because Trump says that from this date hes imposing tariffs.
So all those that voted for Trump because they thought prices were too high under Biden and Trump promised to lower them, will have a shock when their next TV, Laptop, Phone etc is suddenly 25%+ more expensive than it was a year ago.
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Friday 31st January 2025 00:07 GMT John Brown (no body)
"Not to mention that local manufacturers can hike their prices 20% or more and still be the cheapest on the block."
Since the comment you replied to was referring to TVs, Laptops, phones, it crossed my mind to wonder if *any* of those devices could be made today in the US without importing at least some components. Are there any LCD panel manufactures in the US? And if there are, is the entire panel made with US made parts? Ditto for many of the other components or modules in those devices.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 21:11 GMT MachDiamond
"Since the comment you replied to was referring to TVs, Laptops, phones, it crossed my mind to wonder if *any* of those devices could be made today in the US without importing at least some components. Are there any LCD panel manufactures in the US? "
There haven't been any displays made in the US for some time. A good tale is the one of the Kindle. E-ink was developed in the US, but nobody could make the displays at scale so it had to be made in Asia for it to be made at all.
Many basic electronic components aren't made in the US, never mind the flashy CPU/memory stuff. For a manufacturer, it makes all sorts of sense to build their products near to their most important suppliers. Resistors and capacitors are so cheap that it's no problem to buy them in massive quantities and have them in inventory, but displays and especially cases/enclosures are a much different matter. When I go to an estate sale of somebody that dabbled in electronics, I'll search out project boxes. They can cost more than all of the guts I might put in. I've got a niche piece of test gear I'm thinking of making to flog on eBay and I can get populated PCB's for less than $3ea. The box it will go in will cost several times that. I can have a fair number of the boards on the shelf and just buy the enclosures as needed to keep my inventory value down. This will be something that could sell a few dozen right away and then a few from time to time so I don't want to get caught with too many. If there were electronics stores around like the old days, obtaining the enclosures would be fast so I shift my cost of inventory to the store.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 06:52 GMT UnknownUnknown
That HAD the capacity. Unfortunately Corporate America outsourced and outsourced, nickel and dimes them out of existence.
Look at the vast swathes of tech Manufacturing lost abroad IBM, HP/Compaq/DEC, Seagate, Western Digital, Sandisk, Cisco, RCA. Zenith, GE, Philco, Westinghouse and brands that survive not making in US anymore more.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 21:20 GMT MachDiamond
"Unfortunately Corporate America outsourced and outsourced, nickel and dimes them out of existence."
It's much to do about industrial processes becoming regulated out of existence along with government policy that makes it more advantageous to move manufacturing out of the country. If you need to Cadmium plate some metal parts so they don't rust/oxidize, that's very expensive in the US and fewer and fewer plating shops are doing it. Some military components are still specced with Cad plating so there are some facilities around, but it may require a bunch of trucking to get it done.... or...... the parts can be made in another country where there are more options. A company I owned for some time used Cad plating before I bought the company and it held up better for the application, but we switched to Zinc since it was barely good enough and lasted long enough that customers felt they were getting value for money before needing to replace the item.
The other thing that China has been good at is aiming for the "ball bearing" factories. You won't find much magnet manufacturing left in the US. Since magnets get used all over the place, it's a sub-component that gives China an advantage. They've bought out the biggest manufacturers, sometimes after putting them out of business buy selling at a loss, and gathered up all of the large capital equipment so it could not be acquire by another firm that could restart production. Buying that machinery new (custom orders) would not be financially viable.
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Sunday 2nd February 2025 12:59 GMT Jellied Eel
It's much to do about industrial processes becoming regulated out of existence along with government policy that makes it more advantageous to move manufacturing out of the country. If you need to Cadmium plate some metal parts so they don't rust/oxidize, that's very expensive in the US and fewer and fewer plating shops are doing it. Some military components are still specced with Cad plating...
That's maybe where the US could diversify and specialise. So if the application is corrosion reduction, maybe alternatives could work instead. A while ago I was reading about ceramic or metallic coating using things like vacuum deposition, sputtering etc to improve barrel life on precision rifles. Which was an interesting thought experiment given a 7mm x 21" tube*, and the need to make any coating uniform to not mess up the grooves and lands. But that's something barrel & rifle makers are already doing, and the results can be expensive.
But it's something the UK kind of did. We can't compete on mass market stuff, so focused more on specialty engineering. Market might be smaller, but value higher, both in cash and strategic terms. Some stuff we just don't want made in China, even though it might be cheaper.
*ah, the metric vs imperial argument, so for firearms, let's just use both!
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Monday 3rd February 2025 23:03 GMT MachDiamond
"But it's something the UK kind of did. We can't compete on mass market stuff, so focused more on specialty engineering. "
That can work for a smaller country, but the US is big enough and has so many people at all levels of competency that mass production and the jobs that come from it are still needed. I'm fine with lots of things being made in China, but there has to be a broader view by government on how that eats into the capability to produce the most important things. I didn't use enough steel to order mill runs so I could get the alloy I needed in the US, so it was coming from S. Korea. I tried to call a steel producer once and since I wasn't making cars, they just waved me off. The economics had shifted to the point where the mills could only eek an existence if they sold massive quantities of a limited number of alloys in a few forms to a few customers. Whether those alloys and forms would be usable to make armament, I don't know. In WWII, the US had such a broad base of base level material production they could build tank, ships, aircraft and weapons while cranking up the ability to make even more. I'm not hopeful that it's possible in the present day and there wouldn't be a significant lag to wind everything up if required. It doesn't have to be war, but just replacing a large bridge a cargo ship crashed into quickly with materials available domestically. If several big bridges were destroyed by terrorist activity, the time to get them replaced could be significantly pushed into the future if there would be a long lead time to get the materials made and have them shipped half way around the world.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 21:01 GMT MachDiamond
"If the US doesn't have the capacity or facilities to make semiconductors in the quantities that American companies need then they have no choice but to import them, pay the tariffs and then pass those costs onto the end user."
The companies will just make their product nearer to their supply chains and import the finished goods at a lower tariff.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 21:24 GMT MachDiamond
"Number made in USA…. Zero."
Apple is one of the companies with enough cash on hand to fund an R&D program to come up with ways to make things such as phones financially viable in the US. The downside is that it would be highly automated and wouldn't create that many jobs. Tim is certainly not Steve. Not even a pale shadow. The focus has been on short terms profits/growth and nearly nothing on long term company health. As a long term investor that only considers dividend stocks, Apple isn't in my portfolio. I believe that if they were manufacturing, they'd be even stronger rather than a design and marketing house that outsources building the products.
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Tuesday 28th January 2025 21:39 GMT Bluck Mutter
MacDonalds Chips
Come in packages and I am sure this is the only chip packaging The Unstable Genius is aware of.
Making chips (aka wafers) is one thing but what about the packaging.
So you have two insurmountable issues: building fab plants and building packaging plants.
But we all know he knows more about semi-conductors than anyone else so as many have pointed out all of this onshore capability wont happen overnight (or for years)
And while it cant happen it would be interesting to think that if it did, the EU could prohibit ASML from maintaining the US facilities as a retaliatory move soon after they go online... rendering them dead in the water.
Or given ASML can only make so many systems per year and they are back ordered, the US can wait their turn in the queue. Existing and long standing customers take priority.
I do wish that country blocks (say all South American countries) had adopted an "all for one, one for all" strategy prior to 20 Jan. Its easy for the Bully Arsehole to pick on smaller countries with regard to tariffs but if they worked together and enacted a collective tariff response when an individual country was threatened then the pressure goes back on the Fascist Pig.
Bluck
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 01:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
MR
Its incredible how poorly most people understand tariffs.
If you happen to have a domestic industry that you want to support, then they can work albeit at considerable cost. The US could (and does) impose tariffs no wheat and beef for instance.
However, the US does not have a relevant domestic semiconductor market. Semiconductors aren't like planks of wood or doormats, you can't just make one. Each device is patented, meets a specification, and does a particular thing. For example the IMX307 is an imaging chip, patent owned by a Japanese company and made in China. You literally cannot make it in the US without permission from Sony.
So, if your product requires a particular chip you have two choices: either buy at the new price, and pass the costs on to the consumer, or redesign your product to use something else, and pass the cost on to the consumer. And even if a US supplier exists, you can be 100% sure that their price will rise to just below the new tariffed price, and again you will have to pass that extra cost on.
Either way, the consumer pays more. The consumer, not china or taiwan or the EU. The US consumer
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Saturday 1st February 2025 22:05 GMT MachDiamond
Re: MR
"The US imports more beef than it exports."
If there's more money in export, it will be exported.
It's become quite expensive in the US and there aren't the sales there used to be. I'd love to go in with somebody for 1/4 or a few people on a 1/2 to save some money. It's a bigger up front cost, but cheaper in the long run.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 02:29 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: MR
> Semiconductors aren't like planks of wood or doormats, you can't just make one. Each device is patented, meets a specification, and does a particular thing
And who designs, and patents these semiconductors? Uganda? South Africa? Luxembourg? Who owns the patents to the chips in the iPhone? in the Ford F150? in the LG washing machine?
I don't think tariffs work like most people thing they work. If you want to _incentivize_ something, don't tax it. If you want do _disincentivize_ something -- tax it. If you apply a tariff, you're taxing imports -- you're _dis_couraging foreign manufacturing, and encouraging manufacturing at home. Where you don't have manufacturing at home, you're giving a *very strong* market signal that there's a desire for, and a government incentive for, creating that home-field manufacturing capacity.
Tariffs aren't about ensuring that consumers get the cheapest-possible-thing.
Tariffs, in this case, make perfect sense. They just won't likely achieve the desired result *by themselves*, but when it comes to semi-conductors, the CHIPS act is another *huge* push that the industry has been feeding off of. If even that is not enough, and if Global Foundries is able to make some really cheap CPUs on their slightly-older nodes, and *newest* generation computers cost 2-3 times as much as those global foundries CPU computers, people will likely tolerate the not-so-newest-generation of CPU, as a strong market incentive for Intel and AMD to bring foundries back to the US. Tariffs actually make sense for this goal - but they're only _part_ of what needs to happen to bring it to pass. Even more, it needs to be more than just four years - if the market incentive is removed at the next vote, then companies will want to just wait it out. It'll take 15 years of triffs for the market incentive to be worthwhile.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 05:18 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: MR
" It'll take 15 years of triffs for the market incentive to be worthwhile."
But will it be worthwhile still in 15 years?
Until the US producers have caught up, they will not be able to export. Which means they have to do with a fraction of the product volume their competitors have.
It can be done, like Taiwan and Korea showed. But only if you nurture good international connections and massive investments in education. Not the strongest side of the current administration.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 15:00 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: MR
It only needs to be long enough for industry to feel comfortable.
A process node doesn't last 15 years. Something like 6-8 years, probably. Once they have a foundry it makes a great deal more sense for them to keep it up-to-date, especially if the government helps them with the costs, because "national security".
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 06:39 GMT Filippo
Re: MR
>Even more, it needs to be more than just four years - if the market incentive is removed at the next vote, then companies will want to just wait it out.
That's a lot of the problem, though. Because Trump is not even trying to get some bipartisan support, there's a pretty good chance the tariffs will be rolled back once he's out of office. Businesses know this. They will not make long-term investments that rely on tariffs to generate a return. The only smart move for them is to eat the tariffs and pass them on to customers. Then, when the tariffs go away, they can retain a sizeable part of the price hikes, and boost their profits.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 15:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: MR
Businesses may not trust it, but are they really so likely to be rolled back?
When Trump left last time around, after creating all the restrictions around exporting computation to China, with everyone shouting "Don't give them a reason to develop their own internal semiconductor manufacturing!!" the democrats came in and doubled-down on those restrictions.
Evidence suggests that the democrats will continue the tariffs against China.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 22:10 GMT MachDiamond
Re: MR
"But, that's a Biden initiative. If Trump hasn't rescinded that yet, he's probably planning to as soon as someone mentions it to him."
I'm good with that. I don't see merit in paying companies to build plants or re-shore things when the reason they left is still in place.
It's the same with paying companies to install EV chargers. If they instead got rid of all of the red tape and streamlined the permitting process, companies would be installing them. That red tape is doubling the cost and does nothing to the public good.
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Friday 31st January 2025 00:11 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: MR
"You literally cannot make it in the US without permission from Sony."
Trump likes to ignore, change or "disrupt" the rules. He'll probably tell us he can change the IP laws in a way to benefit the US, eg by ignoring them. 'Course, that will go down really well with Hollywood, RIAA, MPAA etc :-)
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Saturday 1st February 2025 21:29 GMT MachDiamond
Re: MR
"If you happen to have a domestic industry that you want to support, then they can work albeit at considerable cost. "
There's national security as well. If all of the steel foundries close or the only ones left are foreign owned, that's a big issue. A lot of military uniforms are made overseas. If entire materials chains are eliminated or there's lots of holes punched in them, the ship sinks. There are many components I have to order from overseas makers as there aren't made in the US. Tesla keeps being lauded by fans as being a US made car (in the US), but they fail to have noticed how much of the tech isn't made in the US and how things such as forged parts are made elsewhere due to cost then they could be sourced in the US.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 02:20 GMT DrkShadow
Broken clock, right twice a day?
On the one hand, I'll probably die because my expensive medicine will be refused to be covered by the expensive medical insurance until they can renegotiate a horribly expensive exemption with the employer next year, taking into account these double-price medicines.
On the other hand, with Donald in office, any new pharmaceutical manufacturer will have every waiver to get their factory built that they could possibly think to ask for. Where they would have been ham-strung in the past on environmental, employment, employee, union, compliance, licensing, and every other type of government tape, they're likely to have all of that waived with the wave of a presidential hand. "Just get it done!" These things *could actually* get built! Some manufacturing, especially _important_ manufacturing, _could_ come to the united states, somewhat.
Not that I think that any of that was planned, I think it's just a matter of two wrongs working together in odd and unforeseen ways.
I may even live to see American pharmaceutical manufacturers actually get off the ground...
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 05:04 GMT HereIAmJH
Re: Broken clock, right twice a day?
On the other hand, with Donald in office, any new pharmaceutical manufacturer will have every waiver to get their factory built that they could possibly think to ask for. Where they would have been ham-strung in the past on environmental, employment, employee, union, compliance, licensing, and every other type of government tape, they're likely to have all of that waived with the wave of a presidential hand.
We could go back to the era before the EPA, when rivers caught on fire. Burning rivers are SO PRETTY. Do a little union busting, and before long we can have those 12 hr, 6 day a week jobs back. You'll be living in dorms on the company's property, that'll save a lot of wasted commuting time that you could be working. OHSA is such a nuisance. Suck it up, buttercup and get back on that assembly line.
In the rush to stop buying stuff from China, you want to become China?
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Friday 31st January 2025 00:18 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Broken clock, right twice a day?
"I may even live to see American pharmaceutical manufacturers actually get off the ground..."
Well, I hope you do live long enough to see it, but don't expect lower prices. Expect at least the same prices, more likely higher prices, while they take bigger profits.
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Saturday 1st February 2025 06:02 GMT Krayzwolf
Re: Broken clock, right twice a day?
Hahahahaha,too freaking hilarious. Of all the comments and wanting to reply to the many and choosing to instead just keep reading them, I get to yours and that was it for me. Thanks, I needed a legit laugh about now.
On a side note tho I am sorry for whatever serious health issues your facing and hope this admin will see to it in caring enough about it's sick and or dying citizens in having health care affordable for all with medicines also affordable to all, like they do in countries such as China, Japan, Mexico, just to name a few.
I am positive that will never actually be the case here especially now. This agenda is destined to delete any and everything that costs them money, ie, everybody elder(except Trump), everybody with illnesses costly and or long term, those disabled, children born with defects both physical and brain abnormalities, all poc and all poor, which is middle class and below
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 07:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: A man with a strictly limited mental capacity
“All he has to do is get a little white ball in a hole.”
And he has to cheat at that too. An obese, senile sociopath with anger management issues cosplaying Mussolini. Maybe get him a big piece of chocolate cake and two scoops of ice cream and keep him out of the way.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:43 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: A man with a strictly limited mental capacity
Maybe get him a big piece of chocolate cake and two scoops of ice cream and keep him out of the way.
I think you're confusing Trump with Biden. Biden was the ice cream fan, even though he sometimes had to check with 'Dr' Jill what his favorite flavor was. I sometimes wonder if the DNC used ice cream to dose Biden, much the same way as you slip drugs into ice cream for a dog so they'll eat them.
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Thursday 30th January 2025 09:43 GMT codejunky
Re: Hmm
@ChodeMonkey
"Tariffs usually raise costs rather than reduce them"
Glad to see you understand my comment and it is something said throughout this comments section so didnt think I would need to repeat it. As I said I am also interested to see if prices come down for the rest of us.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 11:10 GMT localzuk
Shooting self in the foot
So, apart from the issue of tariffs costing US citizens more, not the exporters, is this not going to shoot the USA in the foot? One of the biggest issues that was worrying the US was the fact that there was discussion about replacing the USD as the currency used for most international trade.
If countries get slapped with harsh tariffs, that means those countries will export less and therefore will have less USD currency to spend. It makes the value of the USD as a reserve currency less valuable still. And it means they will buy fewer US exports, causing contraction of the US economy.
So, ultimately, such widespread tariffs will backfire and make the USA poorer, not richer.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 19:23 GMT Peter X
Re: Shooting self in the foot
I don't think Trump actually cares. The only thing that matters to him is placing himself in between two parties (this isn't a metaphor!!) and being the kingmaker. So he'll slap some huge tariff on whoever... it hurts everyone... but likely it'll hurt the _other_ party more, and Trump is the person they need to speak to to resolve it.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 14:06 GMT Anonymous Coward
This increases sales tax receipts significantly. Arent you lot always moaning well-off people need to pay more in tax?
Well, now the latest gadgets will bring in up to twice as much tax.
And this weakens the appearance of Taiwan's support from the US, strengthening China.
This is so Socialist Trump's practically Lenin.
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Wednesday 29th January 2025 17:49 GMT JLV
You know, one thing I find amusing in many of these arguments is how much proponents of tariffs assume they happen in a vacuum.
Slap tariffs on Chinese electronics? No problemo, cuz xyz.
In reality these things almost invariably devolve into a tariff war. Targeted countries do not roll over and instead launch into counter-tariffs of their own, making this typically into a lose-lose proposition in practice.
It's not just about inflation for basic goods for Americans, it is also American soy farmers not being able to sell their crops to China. And doubly so since China has learned from Trump 1.0 and diversified its food import sources.
None of this has to do with me being supportive of Xi's China, a totalitarian, neo-Communist, power which the West should be very, very, cautious about. And quite possibly, should actively try to decouple from. There are lessons to be had from how we treated Russia - and justifiably so - in regards to Ukraine: subcontracting off some of your economic critical inputs to a potential adversary, because you find it inconvenient to look after them yourself (or source them from your allies) comes at a risk.
Still doesn't change the level of economic illiteracy displayed by many Trump fans.