back to article This is how Elon's Department of Government Efficiency will work – overwriting the US Digital Service

US President Donald Trump has renamed the US Digital Service the Department of Government Efficiency and given it a mission to modernize government technology. The Department (DOGE) is a pet project of Elon Musk, who in a November 2024 article described its mission as “to cut the federal government down to size” through “ …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A magistral maneuver

    Way to go! Per "Sec. 3. DOGE Structure": "The United States Digital Service [(USDS)] is hereby publicly renamed as the United States DOGE Service (USDS)". And next up, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA) could be publicly renamed as the United States Energy Production Agency (USEPA) ... brilliant! Saves money on signposts without sowing undue confusion (or not?).

    The obliquely coupled medieval chief magistrate of Venice or Genoa couldn't be prouder (in all of its four-letter crossword glory).

    1. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

      Re: A magistral maneuver

      What a brilliant choice to have Musk running things. How many BILLIONS has he sunk into Xitter only to bleed users like a stuck pig and money along with it?

      Musk uses other people to get the job done and claims credit as if he did it personally.

      You've got a toxic, childish, greedy psycho loose on top of Drumpf now. Two psychos for the price of one election.

      Man did the American voters ever screw themselves and the world along with them...

  2. Bebu sa Ware
    Windows

    "chief magistrate of Venice"

    Somehow I don't think any of the Medici would be flattered by even the most oblique comparison with Trump, Musk or the rest of the MAGA rabble.

    Indeed if any of them were extant I would be very careful of what I ate and drank, after making such comparison... certainly avoiding dark alleys.

    This lot - less il Principe more il Pagliacco.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "chief magistrate of Venice"

      I can see him as Duke of the Dalmatians, if only in a Cruella de Vil sort of way.

    2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: "chief magistrate of Venice"

      I would be very careful of what I ate and drank

      Given the state of safe drinking water in certain parts of the US, and the food that is banned from being imported to certain parts of the world, you do have to be concerned as those are more likely to deteriorate into the future

      1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: "chief magistrate of Venice" ,- eating and drinking

        See, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPrAuF2f_oI

        by Tom Lehrer.

    3. Eclectic Man Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: "chief magistrate of Venice"

      il Pagliacco

      I think you meant 'Pagliacci':

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagliacci

      "Pagliacci (Italian pronunciation: [paʎˈʎattʃi]; literal translation, 'Clowns')[a] is an Italian opera in a prologue and two acts, with music and libretto by Ruggero Leoncavallo. The opera tells the tale of Canio, actor and leader of a commedia dell'arte theatrical company, who murders his wife Nedda and her lover Silvio on stage during a performance."

      (Sorry)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "chief magistrate of Venice"

        The singular of pagliacci is pagliaccio. So il pagliaccio (the clown) or i pagliacci (the clowns). The opera by Leoncavallo is simply Pagliacci. But not il pagliacco...

        1. Sir Loin Of Beef

          Re: "chief magistrate of Venice"

          We call it Pal-Yat-Chee in these parts.

  3. HereIAmJH Silver badge

    Giga

    Could they license Elmo (from Sesame Street) to use as their mascot?

    Now, how long before we start naming government facilities GIGA-<something>?

    Although there is one bit of efficiency I would support. Get the US government out of the fucking public cloud. There is no reason an organization the size of pretty much every federal agency shouldn't be hosting their own cloud. How about this, USDS could build a huge cloud datacenter, 100 percent operated by Federal employees, and provide cloud services for the rest of the US Federal government. (just as long as they don't call it US GigaCloud)

    1. LogicGate Silver badge

      Re: Giga

      This way, the Chinese could efficiently gain access to ALL the data with one single breach, rather than the current inefficient situation, where numerous servers must be hacked. Genious!

      1. HereIAmJH Silver badge

        Re: Giga

        Because it's so much better to put your data outside your secure environment on AWS, Azure, Oracle, where you don't have control of the border security, network configuration, or host system. Requiring all of your data requests to exit your secure environment and transit the Internet.

        The USG would require multiple datacenters for redundancy. (fortunately they already own 1000s). And surely if they are competent enough to set up cloud architecture, they would be able to segregate tenant space. Not to mention the USG has many data classifications and storage of those would require segregation.

        The USG is the largest cloud customer for any provider. They have the $$$ to buy the equipment and hire the personnel to do the job properly. Expertise would not be a problem. Centralizing would improve compliance with a coherent, standardized security posture. The risks are all political because big companies would lose a lot of revenue. Bezos and his peers need more yachts.

        And speaking of numerous servers getting hacked, see Salt Typhoon.

    2. skpirate

      Re: Giga

      How about XCloud?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Giga

        You, Sir, are bad.

        Respect :).

  4. jake Silver badge

    Once a lap-DOGE ...

    ... always a lap-DOGE. Presumably they will sit up and beg for a cookie.

    Can anybody tell me how a government department with TWO heads was somehow the epitome of "efficient"?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

      >Can anybody tell me how a government department with TWO heads was somehow the epitome of "efficient"?

      One head. The other - Vivek Ramaswarmy - either quit or was kicked out already. He is currently looking to run for governor of Ohio apparently.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

        "The outlet said that Musk had “privately undercut” Ramaswamy for weeks and grown frustrated with Ramaswamy’s lack of engagement in the Doge project, which aims to cut dozens of government programs and agencies, along with thousands of jobs, in a bid for government efficiency.

        “Vivek has worn out his welcome,” one person close to Trump told CBS."

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/20/elon-musk-doge-lawsuit

        As Sgt Major Williams would say, "Oh dear, how sad, never mind".

        What are the odds on Trump and Musk remaining best buddies?

        1. Guy de Loimbard Silver badge

          Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

          What are the odds on Trump and Musk remaining best buddies?

          That's a good question, as one has more wealth than you can imagine, and the other one has power, albeit temporary.

          This will make an interesting clash of personalities, or they'll become allies.

          Depends which one of them annoys the other one first!

          1. LogicGate Silver badge

            Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

            the thing is that Trump has, again and again, that he has no allies. He has people that he uses, and once there is no more use, he dumps them.

            An alliance s a two way arrangement. Trump only wants serfs.

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

              "He has people that he uses, and once there is no more use, he dumps them."

              That would seem to infer that Elon and Donald are two peas from the same pod.

          2. Lon24

            Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

            Well one interpretation of this is the Trump team (who actually write the Exec Orders) are attempting to consign Elon to sorting out the Fed's IT. Something Elon is probably well qualified to do. Consigning him to IT might keep him out of the more political headaches and, more importantly, the news headlines at Trump's expense.

            Like yesterday with one flick of the arm.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

              "Elon to sorting out the Fed's IT. Something Elon is probably well qualified to do. "

              Really? Barely qualified, let alone well-qualified.

              1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
                Mushroom

                Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

                He should put his own house in order as and sort out the Tesla "autopilot"

              2. Helcat Silver badge

                Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

                Knowing some (UK) government IT upper management: Musk is definitely overqualified.

                I'm not even expecting him to be able to tie his own shoelaces to be smarter than the so-called IT experts who somehow bluffed their way into government IT upper management (at least, over here). And I doubt he could inflict the US with the kind of embarrassing disasters that are a result.

                Was unfortunate enough to meet some of the UK Government IT upper managers... and I know of the mess they make of government projects. The reason they survive: They move on BEFORE things fall apart, leaving some other poor sap to try to salvage something from the mess. It's the latter who are the reason why things aren't quite so bad over here - even though the project does go over time and over budget (fixing the mess isn't quick, nor cheap, you know!).

                So I doubt Musk will be as bad.

                Or perhaps I hope, for the sake of the American people, he's not...

            2. rg287 Silver badge

              Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

              Something Elon is probably well qualified to do.

              Elon is patently unqualified to oversee massive migrations of legacy data and infrastructure, having only ever worked in new-build environments on a "Move fast and break things"/"Fail rapidly" basis.

              It is very weird to suggest that he has any meaningful expertise in migrating legacy government systems from (say) a creaking and inflexible - but highly reliable - mainframe infrastructure to something more modern, distributed or with more scope for a better user/public-facing services.

              Even sober and planned migrations like that of TSB and HSBC (Eyes passim) can go badly wrong.

              The idea that such migrations will happen on Elon time-scales (and after he's sacked half the staff) is laughable.

              Except it's not laughable, because it's easy to rip stuff out and much harder to put it back together. Elon could wreak havoc in 12 months that will take a decade (and $B) to put back together.

        2. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

          @Fruit and Nutcase

          “Vivek has worn out his welcome,” one person close to Trump told CBS."

          I hear George Clooney is angry with Obama for using him to push out Biden. Hearsay is fun isnt it.

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

            "Hearsay is fun isnt it."

            The specific reason isn't as interesting as that somebody that would have been working very closely with a US President decided to leave to pursue other opportunities. Sounds like a familiar refrain around Elon.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

              He didn't leave so much as was pushed.

              Did you REALLY think the white "christian" nationalist nazis would allow a person of colo(u)r to hold such a high position?

      2. The man with a spanner Bronze badge

        Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

        A 50% efficiency gain in heads of the organisation. Look, its working on day one.

      3. jake Silver badge

        Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

        "The other - Vivek Ramaswarmy - either quit or was kicked out already."

        That's why I used the word "was" in my colophon.

        1. Ace2 Silver badge

          Re: Once a lap-DOGE ...

          I thought the headlines about Ramawhatever “departing DOGE” raised interesting philosophical questions.

          Is it possible to depart from somewhere you’ve never been?

          Is it possible to depart from something that does not, in fact, exist?

  5. jake Silver badge

    While I'm asking questions ...

    Has Congress approved this new department yet?

    Or are they an un-funded, powerless figment of what passes for the senile Convict in Chief's imagination?

    1. sgp

      Re: While I'm asking questions ...

      The article states it's created via executive order, or let's call it a dictat shall we? So does it need to pass congress?

      1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

        Re: While I'm asking questions ...

        All money appropriations are, by the Constitution, the duty of the congress to fund. Of course Trump could use the same dodge he used for the border wall last time (and stupidly signed off on by the Supreme Court) by declaring a military emergency and using funding from the Pentagons budget. Which is an irony to end all ironies as the military has for decades been one of the most wasteful agencies in the US. Hey, I want my country to be strong militarily but at 800+ million dollars and probably heading for a nice round trillion in the next four years (still more than the next 8 countries, some of them until very recently allies, COMBINED) somebody needs to say no once in a while.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: While I'm asking questions ...

          Did Biden's student loan forgiveness go through congress?

          1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            Technically speaking that did not require any appropriations of funds, they had already been appropriated and spent. And one should note that the Supreme Court shot it down a couple of times, unlike the false claim of military emergency. Finally the whole student loan program has been a cluster f*ck of epic proportions mainly due to high interest rates (that I believe started after it was privatized) which has some people attempting to pay the loan off 20 years after it was made and still not having made any real progress on the principle. I'm not sure how this differs from indentured servitude other than the servants can sometimes manage to pay off the debt before they die.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "they had already been appropriated and spent"

              So they spent it twice? My OH is still waiting for her loan forgiveness but she is white and doesn't work for the US government so she isn't getting a cent.

              1. MrAptronym

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Cool petty grievance politics Anonymous Coward.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  Isn't that the entire Democrat party manifesto?

              2. Not Yb Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Wow, so you can't understand simple English, debt, or economics in general. Not surprised you're having trouble with life in general.

            2. HereIAmJH Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              mainly due to high interest rates (that I believe started after it was privatized) which has some people attempting to pay the loan off 20 years after it was made and still not having made any real progress on the principle

              When I had student loans in the 90s, they were on a 30 year repayment schedule and over 7%. (down from 8.25% due to a one time refinance option)

              While I can sympathize with the rising cost of education and the indoctrination of the parents that their precious little snowflakes MUST have a college degree, the terms were explained to them in advance and previous generations fought the same issues. If you entered the job market in the Reagan years, you know that the difficulty of finding a good paying job isn't a new thing.

            3. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "which has some people attempting to pay the loan off 20 years after it was made and still not having made any real progress on the principle."

              Some of that might be blamed on colleges offering and people taking degrees in subjects with no market value. Since there's no way to discharge the loans in bankruptcy, the lenders were happy to write the contracts. IF those loans could be BK'd off the books, the lenders might take a keen interest in the degree sought and the amount being borrowed. That would have prevented colleges from whomping up useless liberal arts degrees that don't lead to worthwhile jobs.

              1. Autonomous Mallard

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                I'm not sure that liberal arts degrees are 'useless', although they certainly won't make you rich. On the other hand, a more complete knowledge of history among the general populace might have helped avoid this nice 1930s rerun we're living in...

                1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  "I'm not sure that liberal arts degrees are 'useless', "

                  Not all are, but there are things being offered at colleges that have zero value. They wouldn't otherwise be in the catalog in a rational world as only a few people with the means to fund the degree path would take them. In a lot of history, people that have done in-depth research into many niche things have been children of wealthy parents. The work they have done is valid and useful, but more than a handful of people doing it would be overkill. There were also many areas within the arts that were acceptable for a lady, especially a Lady.

                  I have have supervised some interns that were on course tracks for things like "Aerospace Engineering" where I felt the degree was too shallow and those interns would have been better off reading for a Mechanical Engineering degree with a aerospace specialty since the education would be broader and give them more opportunities. A friend got her BSME with a rotating machinery specialty and works wherever she likes from nuclear plants to companies that make food processing equipment. I think she off again after having increase world population by one more, again. I met her when we were both working on rockets.

                  TL:DR, going deep into debt for a degree that companies don't need or value is not good.

        2. Guy de Loimbard Silver badge

          Re: While I'm asking questions ...

          Military spending significantly influences the U.S. economy.

          You could go as far as saying without the Military Industrial Machine the US economy would be a very different picture.

          The challenge you have with such a large military is if it's not being used for actual benefit, when not at war, then why spend so much.

          Of course, as with all Militaries, it is supported by subordinate functions which directly benefit from the Military, think car show rooms, strip clubs, boozers, home improvement depots etc.

          Most of the rest of the world has scaled it's military to suit actual operations, or actual threats, whereas the US appears to grow its spend in the defence space every year, which in turn supports the Military Industrial Machine.

          1. that one in the corner Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            > which in turn supports the Military Industrial Machine.

            Complex.

            It is the Military Industrial Complex.

            A "machine" is something that does (useful) work, hence the classic machine being the lever.

            The "complex" is a load of messily interconnected things, having both a real and an imaginary part, leading to a collection of psychological symptoms, including a heavy dose of paranoia (e.g. "they are coming to take away my funding").

            1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              that one in the corner > "A "machine" is something that does (useful) work, hence the classic machine being the lever."

              Not necessarily:

              See, for example, William Heath Robinson, the Wallace and Gromit 'documentaries' or: https://www.instructables.com/The-Most-Useless-Machine/

              1. that one in the corner Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Au contraire, every Heath Robinsonesque machine does *extremely* useful work: it keeps us entertained! And in the good way.

                If you go to the Heath Robinson Museum or a Tim Hunkin installation then you'll be left trying to decided how they've managed to beat Thermodynamics: you'll emit far more chuckle energy out than there is any right to be present.

          2. Gary Stewart Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            "Military spending significantly influences the U.S. economy."

            Indeed it does, however I'm sure we could find more than a few things that are more important than wasteful spending. Badly needed infrastructure repair and providing multi-billion dollar subsidies for soy bean farmers after the Chinese started buying from other sources due to tariffs from a previous Trump administration come to mind. Can't wait for the new tariffs ones to be implemented. Plus some of the MIC (new TLA?) companies have been making a killing due to the Vlad the Invader's war on Ukraine. Just to be clear I fully approve of the aid to Ukraine unlike the new administration. And no, I know trump will not be able to stop it in 24 hours just like it was laughable that anybody believed that Mexico could be forced to pay for the wall. Apparently somebody forgot to tell Trump that he was not elected king of the world. At this point I can only hope for the best, which will not be good and prepare for the worst, which could be a disaster.

            1. HereIAmJH Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              Plus some of the MIC (new TLA?) companies have been making a killing due to the Vlad the Invader's war on Ukraine. Just to be clear I fully approve of the aid to Ukraine unlike the new administration.

              Supporting Ukraine makes perfect sense, so of course the new administration wouldn't agree with it.

              1. we flushed out all the old equipment and ammunition from our stockpiles and replaced it with shiny new stuff.

              2. we got to see how older generation equipment worked against Russia's 1st line military equipment and strategies. (not some proxy country)

              3. we got to encourage Ukraine to try out military strategies against one of our primary opponents.

              4. we gained a lot of knowledge on new strategies from outside our military's echo chamber. (COTS drones, for example)

              Not a single US soldier has been put at risk. We got the deal of the century to do the right thing.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              >"Military spending significantly influences the U.S. economy."

              How else are you going to fund housing, education and medical care for the poorest segment of society ?

          3. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            "Most of the rest of the world has scaled it's military to suit actual operations, or actual threats, "

            At least "credible" threats. It's hard to quantify an "actual" threat sans one being on offer.

            A lot of US spending has been pushed along by a fear of the Russians having something that it turns out years later they didn't. In present times is as much the Chinese as the Russians. It seems more likely to me that the battlefield with China is commerce. They can wage war on that front while making money at the same time. The other way does the opposite.

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              You think America could have defeated the Taliban with only 19 carrier battle groups, rather than 20?

              1. rg287 Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                You think America could have defeated the Taliban with only 19 carrier battle groups, rather than 20?

                Clearly they needed at least 21 since they didn't defeat the Taliban - just drove them into hiding for a decade.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  To be fair, carrier groups don't work well under arid conditions.

              2. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                "You think America could have defeated the Taliban with only 19 carrier battle groups, rather than 20?"

                They couldn't do it with 100, but perhaps 1. The issue was the ROE (Rules of Engagement), not the force that could be brought to bear. The goal would also have to be to defeat the Taliban. I'm not sure the US politicians had any goals with respect to Afghanistan.

                1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  So you were 'Stabbed in the Back' and betrayed by unpatriotic traitors in the fatherhome land?

            2. HereIAmJH Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              A lot of US spending has been pushed along by a fear of the Russians having something that it turns out years later they didn't. In present times is as much the Chinese as the Russians.

              We have always been at war with Eastasia.

          4. rg287 Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            Military spending significantly influences the U.S. economy.

            Indeed. It hides the USA's social welfare programmes, which subsidises private industry's unwillingness to invest or train their staff.

            Can't afford college? Join the military and they'll put you through a degree.1

            Become a signaller and get stacked with your <Vendor> networking certs ready for a career in the private sector. We can't expect private enterprise to train their staff or pay for CPD after all.

            Just don't join the infantry.

            Plus, lifetime socialised healthcare through the VA!

            Service means citizenship!

            1. Success may very with trade and branch

            ---------------------------------------

            Of course, the US could spend that military budget direct on education and healthcare. There's no real need to make people join a bloated military as salaried personnel to access those opportunities. They could work as productive private sector workers and still access those benefits, reducing cost to the taxpayer. Or we could spend it on infrastructure, by hook or by crook. A canny president - recognising the need for better rail connectivity across the US for freight and passengers - could order the Army Corp of Engineers to design and start construction on such a network for defence purposes, in the same way they manage other - dubiously military - civil engineering projects like Mississippi flood control. The fact that those lines would then be predominantly used by civilian Amtrak services, making use of free space when the military aren't shifting materiel - would be a complete coincidence.

            This would all benefit the US economy (because public spending makes the private sector work - since all money ultimately comes from the government/Fed, unless it's counterfeit!). It doesn't need to be military to benefit the economy. Infrastructure, healthcare and transport would also work.

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "Can't afford college? Join the military and they'll put you through a degree.1"

              The US Navy was after me to join and do nuclear stuff. It turned out that it's a lifetime hitch. You do boot camp, get a fleet assignment, come back and go to school, back on active duty, back to school, more active duty, lather rinse repeat until I'd wind up with a PhD in nuclear engineering. After a couple of decades or so of that, I'd wind up on reserve subject to recall. There were some downsides for not doing well in school up to an AdSep (less than honorable discharge).

              I've had several friends that worked on military bases and it's contractors and civil servants that get the most interesting work. A friend that passed away a couple of years ago maintained T-38 jets. Military folk filled them with Jet-A and flew them, but civies turned the wrenches. I know a couple of people that started in the military aiming for electronics training which wound up being following flowcharts (rigorously) and swapping modules more than theory and component level work. They were sufficiently interested to go to college after their hitch and let the government pay for their BSEE. The Army wasn't going to give them that education while in-service.

            2. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "The fact that those lines would then be predominantly used by civilian Amtrak services, making use of free space when the military aren't shifting materiel - would be a complete coincidence."

              Amtrak is supposed to have about $65bn for improvements and updates right now unless something orange happens. Part of the reason for the formation of Amtrak by the US government was to make sure that passenger rail did not go away. I love it and going by how much trains will fill up, it's gaining popularity again. With new rolling stock and more routes/stops, I hope that interest continues. I'm pretty sure that the military transport aspect wasn't a secret. That it could also be used in the event of a large disaster to move people away from an area and others into a place is a good resource to have. The route from New Orleans to Florida is still needing to be reopened after hurricane Katrina (I think it was Katrina that messed up the tracks).

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                But Amtrack is slow. Very slow. How slow? Thanks for asking ... A little quick research shows it is about 2430 train-miles from San Diego to New York. There are 9 trains leaving SD for NY per day. The fastest makes the trip in just over 72 hours on a good day (or three). That's an average of about 33.7 MPH ... I can easily drive cross country faster than taking the train.

                In fact, the Wife, Daughter and I spelling each other in the Peterbilt have made the drive from Sonoma, California to Allentown, New Jersey and back (5,800 miles, give or take) in under 100 hours. Not once, but several times. Without even bending the speed limits. (Yes, "limits", plural ... interstate highway truck speeds vary by state. Here in California, it's 55MPH, cross the border into Nevada and it becomes 80MPH.)

                Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy traveling by train. Amtrack is the vacation, not transportation to a vacation.

                1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  Have you thought of using steam to power the trains?

                  I believe speeds of 200kph should be achievable

                2. MachDiamond Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  "But Amtrack is slow. Very slow. How slow? Thanks for asking ... A little quick research shows it is about 2430 train-miles from San Diego to New York. There are 9 trains leaving SD for NY per day. The fastest makes the trip in just over 72 hours on a good day (or three). That's an average of about 33.7 MPH ... I can easily drive cross country faster than taking the train."

                  The speed is a big problem and a good portion of that is having to share tracks with freight and running 40 year old stock.

                  San Diego to NY isn't a direct train so one routing would be SD>LA>Chicago>NY and having to change trains against schedules that don't align with most routes only having one departure per day. With the very poor on-time figures, you don't want to try and connect from Chicago to NY on the same day as you'd likely not make it and going out the next day after a rescheduling might mean a coach seat. All of that said, I heartily agree that taking the train is the point, not getting to point B as fast as possible. Travelocity shows that flights between San Diego and Newark non or one stop depart 53x per day and aren't all that expensive provided you are under 5'6" and can fold up into an economy seat along with your luggage.

                  I took a train to see X perform in Albuquerque, NM last year. All things considered, especially the 24 hours of estimated drive time round trip, I found it a better way to go. Driving would have been faster and flying cheaper than both (discounting the needed counseling for the trauma inflicted by airport "security"). An overnight train both ways with my BYO G&T kits was bonus.

                  Years ago I held a California CDL and I also used to do courier work as a side hustle when wet signatures on documents was the norm. I did one job carrying around $1mn worth of CPU's when those were crazy expensive and that $$ amount would fit in a couple of medium sized boxes. FedEx or UPS weren't good options. I think Fedex has a high value secure service, but they'd be far more expensive. The courier work was often cannonball runs consuming lots of coffee.

                3. rg287 Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  But Amtrack is slow. Very slow. How slow? Thanks for asking ... A little quick research shows it is about 2430 train-miles from San Diego to New York. There are 9 trains leaving SD for NY per day. The fastest makes the trip in just over 72 hours on a good day (or three). That's an average of about 33.7 MPH ... I can easily drive cross country faster than taking the train.

                  Amtrak isn't slow. The private freight lines they run passenger services over are slow. And those freight lines are great. They shift huge numbers of containers (and semi-trailers) safely, efficiently and keep that national traffic off the highways, leaving space for local and regional traffic. But we could hardly expect the private sector to ever invest in upgrading their 19th century railroads to support modern passenger services.

                  Hence my suggestion for doing what the nation did in the 1960s and build an interstate (high speed) rail network. They did it for cars, but never for trains. Which is a problem for people who can't drive either through lack of a licence, personal preference, disqualifying disabilities, or having kids not-of-driving-age who definitely can't take a turn in the Peterbilt...

                  Much of the USA's declining economic condition can be traced to declining access to healthcare, education and employment and contracting social mobility, some of which has to do with the cost of healthcare and education, but quite a bit of which also has to with physical access - the state of public transport. Of course we get more into (sub-)urban transit there, but national and regional transit also plays a role. There's really no reason why someone in St Louis shouldn't be able to jump on a train to Chicago or Indianapolis for a job interview and be there in 90minutes. But driving takes 4.5 hours, the Texas Eagle (train) takes 5:15 and the Greyhound is nearer 7hours. Madness in a first world country. Most of the mid-west cities should be 90minutes apart. The same is true of the DFW-Austin-Houston triangle. Put those regional lines in place with nationally standardised signalling/platform height/loading gauges and it becomes a very small job to then hook them together into a national network for coast-to-coast sleepers and the like.

                  Some will point to the fact that there are 14-15 flights per day between St Louis and Chicago, and they "only" take 70minutes, which of course is a minimum of 2 hours by the time you get past Touch-Squeeze-Assault, and you also need your airport transfer at either end. That's without asking if the US can really afford the climate cost of running that many short-haul flights - c.f. the current state of Los Angeles or Lake Mead.

              2. rg287 Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Amtrak is supposed to have about $65bn for improvements and updates right now unless something orange happens.

                Unfortunately $65Bn is table stakes given how little investment has had over the decades. Doesn't even catch you up really (per your point about the New Orleans route). And of course a lot of their routes are rented from private freight firms anyway, so out of their hands.

                What AmTrak needs is a national high speed network. In theory this could enable a coast-to-coast service in about 14hours, which would be a really nice sleeper (beats spending a day in an airport/flying).

                But more pragmatically, that would simply be a happy end result of stitching together various regional high speed networks which could do things like get you between most mid-west cities in 60-120minutes, or similar for the Dallas-Houston-San-Antonio/Austin triangle. This beats the hell out of 4-5 hours of driving.

                A fast rail network would also be very handy for the likes of FedEx to run fast parcel freight trains as an adjunct to their air freight operations. Realistically, including ground handling and trans-shipping from the airport, a parcel train arriving in a city centre station overnight and exchanging some cages before speeding on, will be just as quick as driving parcels to the airport freight terminal, loading, flying, unloading and sorting for onward shipping or delivery.

    2. Jim Mitchell

      Re: While I'm asking questions ...

      The trick here seems that instead of forming a new agency/dept, which the executive can't do (I think), he is changing how an existing one operates. Legal? I don't know.

      1. HereIAmJH Silver badge

        Re: While I'm asking questions ...

        I don't think he has done anything (officially) other than rename the agency. He would have considerable latitude though in interpreting how the agency performs it's mission. Technically the Congress is the only one with authority to allocate money, but as we saw from his last term the Whitehouse has access to a considerable slush fund for pet projects. It's not like they are being tasked to build a wall.

        And Elmo's DOGE would still be separate. I suspect any position he would accept would be high enough to require Congressional approval. And who knows if he can pass a drug test.

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: While I'm asking questions ...

          And who knows if he can pass a drug test.

          Then there is that salute to explain away - Is there some medical condition akin to a "trigger finger" that effects the arm?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            Oh sweet child, do you actually believe that?

            1. Not Yb Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              Bless your heart.

          2. EvilDrSmith

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            You mean what the (Anti-Nazi) Anti-Defamation League explicitly defined as just 'an awkward gesture':

            https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/20/trump-elon-musk-salute

            But to save you the time of reading through the Guardian article:

            "In a statement posted to social media later on Monday, the ADL said: “This is a delicate moment. It’s a new day and yet so many are on edge. Our politics are inflamed, and social media only adds to the anxiety.

            “It seems that Elon Musk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge. In this moment, all sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of the doubt, and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead.” "

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              they need to start calling a spade a spade.

              That was a nazi salute, and fuck musttwat and his tango mussolini boss.

              about time people got back to doing what we did to nazi's back in the 40's. fuck em all with prejudice..

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                now that's interesting, we have at least 3 nazi bastards on the forum!!!

                1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
                  Joke

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  It's either 4 now, or it's still 3 and 1 ADL apologist

              2. anothercynic Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                *EVERY* historian so far with expertise in the National Socialist era and inter- and post-war politics has branded it a Nazi gesture. If the people who actually *study* this stuff say it's a Nazi gesture, it most likely is.

                Any claims of "Roman gesture" or "awkward gesture" are just dodging the elephant in the room. The ADL especially should be ashamed, given their purpose to call this kind of crap out.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  Is this like the 51 intelligence officials?

                  And when you say 'every' and then 'so far' is that just 1? And how many of the experts were actually alive during the initial era? Or is this just a bunch of academics who suffer from TDS and only work on fourth hand information trying to get some screen time on CNN?

                  1. Not Yb Silver badge

                    Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                    Sorry, what's TDS?

                    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                      Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                      >Sorry, what's TDS?

                      testosterone deficiency syndrome - an unfortunate condition which forces people to drive pickup trucks and carry guns to compensate for

              3. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Maybe he's not long re watched Dr Strangelove and elania's arm just wanted to join in...

            2. abend0c4 Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              Just an innocent homage to Dr Strangelove.

            3. Eclectic Man Silver badge
              Unhappy

              Re: While I'm asking questions ... re; Awkward gesture

              Sorry to bring serious issues to an interesting discussion, but Monday 27th January is Holocaust Memorial Day. Anything that appears to be even remotely like a NAZI salute would not be appropriate. 7 Million Russians (of whom 1.5 million were Jews), 6 million Jews, hundreds of thousands of other supposedly 'undesirable' peoples, such as Roma, Communists, Trades Unionists, Pacifists, Homosexuals, physically or mentally handicapped, and non-Aryan people murdered should all be remembered.

              Note: all numbers are very approximate as the NAZIs destroyed records, and some of the women will have been pregnant.

              1. EvilDrSmith

                Re: While I'm asking questions ... re; Awkward gesture

                Well said - have an upvote.

                And just as anything that appears like a Nazi salute is especially inappropriate at this time, so is any casual use of Nazi as an insult for people whose politics we happen to disagree with.

                We could all do with reading more history and less social media posts.

                1. Tom 38

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ... re; Awkward gesture

                  so is any casual use of Nazi as an insult for people whose politics we happen to disagree with

                  Agreed. Which one of Umberto Eco's 14 traits of fascism do you think are not accurate to describe Trump?

                  * Cult of tradition? ✓

                  * Rejection of modernism? ✓

                  * Action for actions sake? ✓

                  * Disagreement is treason? ✓

                  * Fear of difference? ✓

                  * Appeal to a frustrated middle class? ✓

                  * Enemies are both strong and weak? ✓

                  * Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy? ✓

                  * Contempt for the weak? ✓

                  * Cult of death? ✓

                  * Machismo? ✓

                  * Selective populism? ✓

                  * Newspeak? ✓

                  Spade is a fucking spade.

                2. Not Yb Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ... re; Awkward gesture

                  Is it OK to call people implementing fascist policies that remind me of the early policies of the Nazi party fascist, or is that inappropriate as well?

            4. rg287 Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              Giving Nazis "the benefit of the doubt" is how they thrive.

              The ADL are - unforutnately - not merely concerned with anti-semitism but are historically extremely Zionist and pro-Israel. Given that the Prime Minister of Israel is a borderline fascist, facing international charges of war crimes, and the ADL have been deemed "generally unreliable" on the topic of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (such as labeling pro-Palestinian activists as antisemitic), we have to take the ADL's position with a pinch of salt as they have allowed their credibility to slip via a series of unwise proclamations. This is just the latest.

              The ADL attacked Trump remorselessly in his first term, but seem to have softened their stance given that Trump is backing Israel's campaign of genocide (apparently they consider carpet bombing neighbourhoods to constitute a "precision strike"). Just yesterday Trump revoked sanctions against Israeli colonialists who had settled land on the West Bank through force. I was under the impression that colonialism was bad. But the US and Israel have decided otherwise.

              It's weird how people continue to give Britain grief for the undoubtedly dark actions in the days of Empire but - rather than taking a way a message that slavery and genocide is bad - then turn around and say "well anyway, watch this!".

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                "Given that the Prime Minister of Israel is a borderline fascist"

                Borderline?

                1. rg287 Silver badge

                  Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                  Borderline?

                  I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Which we all seem to agree is a mistake.

          3. LionelB Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            Yeah, this guy.

          4. Kernel

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            "Then there is that salute to explain away - Is there some medical condition akin to a "trigger finger" that effects the arm?"

            I believe that it is known as the "Bellamy Salute" and was used in US schools during the Pledge of Allegiance up until the end of 1942 - it was named after the author of said pledge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

            As such, it would appear to be a particularly US thing.

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "As such, it would appear to be a particularly US thing."

              So a bit odd for a South African that came to the US via Canada?

              1. rg287 Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                So a bit odd for a South African that came to the US via Canada?

                And was born in 1971, some 29years after US schools stopped using it. So no American born after about 1935 could have any excuse for "oh, sorry, just an old habit from school".

          5. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            And who knows if he can pass a drug test.

            Well he certainly appears to have been studying for it.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: While I'm asking questions ...

        In the immortal words of the nations most inspirational leader - if the President does it, it's legal.

        1. Not Yb Silver badge

          Re: While I'm asking questions ...

          In the words of bad drivers everywhere, "If I didn't get caught, it wasn't illegal"

        2. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: While I'm asking questions ...

          "In the immortal words of the nations most inspirational leader - if the President does it, it's legal."

          Why didn't Richard "tricky Dick" Nixon think of that?

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: While I'm asking questions ...

            He probably did ... but he was trying to pretend he was not a crook, remember?

            1. MachDiamond Silver badge

              Re: While I'm asking questions ...

              "He probably did ... but he was trying to pretend he was not a crook, remember?"

              If was legal due to his being President, he wouldn't be a crook.

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: While I'm asking questions ...

                Nixon did say it in his interview with David Frost

                Unfortunately in those days the court didn't belong to the president and the media reported on him.

                Won't make those mistakes again.

    3. anothercynic Silver badge

      Re: While I'm asking questions ...

      It'll be funded by MAGA magic, jake... get with the program(me)!

      It's all the billions saved from cancelling all DEI initiatives, and booting out all the trans people and stopping all abortion services and and and that'll pay (for) the DOGE.

      In all seriousness though - if it wasn't for the guy who signed the paperwork and the guy who is meant to run it, I would say that this might not be a bad thing... Killing off all the little fiefdoms with all their "not invented here so not a good thing" and "all the data is ours and ours alone" attitudes (*specially* the DoD, DoS and their sprawling mess of agencies) could be a more streamlined government experience. But, like I said in the beginning, if it wasn't for the guy who signed the paperwork and the guy who is meant to run it...

  6. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

    Efficiency

    It would be efficient for the US government to put all data it has on every citizen into One Database to Replace them All, and let every government official, from the Director of Political Reliability down to the Chief of Poultry Control in Claptrap, Iowa, access every bit of data, via the Internet, regardless of "need to know" or lack thereof, without the time-wasting procedure of entering passphrases or other authentication keys.

    But being efficient doesn't make that a good idea.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Efficiency

      >... has re-named the US Digital Service the Department of Government Efficiency and given it a mission to modernize government technology.

      Oracle has just ordered half a dozen 3MW pumps for it's marketing office to pump out the saliva currently flooding the basement from the executive suite. A crack team of the filthiest whores in all Bogota** has been flown in to try and grind down the raging boners before they need medical intervention.

      **apologies to Bogota.

      1. Ace2 Silver badge

        Re: Efficiency

        I regret that I have but one upvote to give

    2. Guy de Loimbard Silver badge

      Re: Efficiency

      Very well made point.

      Efficiency is one thing, fit for purpose is really what one should be aiming for.

      Saving money is an admirable viewpoint, but don't do what normally happens: kill head count then try (look how much I have saved boss!) and then rehire cheaper and put yourself in dire straights as you've lost all your experience and talent.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Efficiency

        "what normally happens: kill head count then try (look how much I have saved boss!) and then rehire cheaper and put yourself in dire straights as you've lost all your experience and talent."

        Which leads to hiring a mess of those people back as consultants at 2-3x the money. Of course, money for those positions is under a different account.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Efficiency

          "Which leads to hiring a mess of those people back as consultants at 2-3x the money."

          Try 25 to 30 iimes, sometimes much more.

          No, not me ... Been there, done that. Once. Never again. The money is nice, but the people and paperwork ... Blargh.

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Efficiency

            "Try 25 to 30 iimes, sometimes much more."

            On an hourly basis, it could be that, but then those people will mostly likely only get work on an hourly basis rather than 40hrs/week.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Efficiency

              As a consultant, I always charge by the hour.

              The one .gov contract I bid on, I over-bid massively (or so I thought) as I didn't really want the job.

              1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: Efficiency

                "The one .gov contract I bid on, I over-bid massively (or so I thought) as I didn't really want the job."

                SOP for me. Things I want to do get lower estimates. Same with people I like working with. Government work, base fee is at least one yacht.

    3. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: Efficiency

      Password hashing is another example. You want an algorithm that's as inefficient as you can tolerate (to slow down crackers if they ever get hold of the table).

  7. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

    There won't be any cost savings. Historically, the idea of "small government" babbled by the Repooplicans is just bullshit and lies they feed the public to buy their vote, then any "savings" get spent on tax breaks for the rich.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      There are never any savings (even before the cost overruns start) AND they give tax breaks to the rich.

      Nett result: blown out deficit , and nothing at all to show for it.

    2. PB90210 Silver badge

      And all those gov employees are being forced back into those previously empty unlit unheated offices...

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        "And all those gov employees are being forced back into those previously empty unlit unheated offices...

        "

        Offices ornately built of stone that are incredibly expensive to heat and cool, by the lowest bidder, with no thought to subsequent upgrades. I've read some history of the White House and it's incredibly hard to retrofit tech physically and also difficult and slow from a security standpoint.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          1, Whitehouse difficult to heat?

          2, war with canada

          3, problem solved

          1. Not Yb Silver badge

            "But why did the evil Canadians burn so much stuff in Washington, DC?"

            "The Americans occupied York for six days. They looted homes, took or destroyed supplies, and burned Government House and the Parliament Buildings." - Fort York (Canada) National Historic Site

            The inciting events are generally not emphasized much in US schools. It's a lot more "The Canadians burned Washington"

            1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

              The Americans burn Ft York (Toronto) and although most people would approve of this, you can't encourage them.

              The Canadians burnt Washington in return.

              They then captured Detroit, but having realized their mistake they gave it back.

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      But, but tax and spend Democrats. Some how they always forget spend and borrow Republicans.

    4. HereIAmJH Silver badge

      Smaller government

      Historically, the idea of "small government" babbled by the Repooplicans is just bullshit and lies they feed the public to buy their vote,

      Smaller government is a misunderstanding by the voting public that is encouraged by the GOP. It's not about efficiency or saving money. It's about redirecting tax money to private corporations. Voters ALWAYS want more services for their tax dollars. (better yet, someone else's tax dollars)

      Ex. rather than letting the army's trained staff handle the mess halls in Iraq, they outsourced it to private companies that did stupid stuff in the name of profits. (concentrating large groups of soldiers in a single location at the same time, rather than staggering meals throughout the day, because it was cheaper. Or failing to build proper water treatment facilities so that soldiers always had clean drinking water and didn't get electrocuted in the showers)

    5. rg287 Silver badge

      There won't be any cost savings.

      Oh yea of little faith.

      It's amazing what you can do by deferring maintenance and renewals - leaving a tidy little mess for the next lot to clear up. But this year's books look great.

  8. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    Alice in Wonderland

    In the absence of a clear definition, "efficiency" is very much a Humpty Dumpty word. My physics teacher told us that the bicycle is a very efficient means of transport but you wouldn't use it to take your family on a surfing holiday in Cornwall.

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Alice in Wonderland

      Fortunately, when used by politicians, efficient always means "cheap" - no matter the cost.

  9. Howard Sway Silver badge

    So, they're going to save money by....

    Rewriting every piece of government software, replacing all the old hardware infrastructure, and then developing a massive new interoperability layer on top of every IT system.

    By the time all that's been paid for, any marginal efficiency improvements that result will never cover the cost of doing it. Sounds much more like an excuse to hand out yet more billions to the tech companies that will be bidding to do the work.

    1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      Re: So, they're going to save money by....

      "Rewriting every piece of government software, replacing all the old hardware infrastructure, and then developing a massive new interoperability layer on top of every IT system."

      Yeah, that always goes well. As in well over budget, well over schedule, and well hell here we go again.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: So, they're going to save money by....

        "Rewriting every piece of government software"

        Step forward Microsoft with Copilot

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: So, they're going to save money by....

      "Rewriting every piece of government software, replacing all the old hardware infrastructure, and then developing a massive new interoperability layer on top of every IT system."

      Regardless of the purpose, there will be one set of standardized interfaces that will be confusing for every use case. The ol' "one size fits none" motif. The rigid hardware spec will mean the computers are either massively overpowered or too slow. All equipment layouts will be standardized. Get the plans for one server room and all of the rest will be nearly identical.

    3. UnknownUnknown Silver badge

      Re: So, they're going to save money by....

      In 18 months while the Temp Organisation exists.

      Agile innit.

      -

      The hardware will be also expensive, unless the Fed’s are exempt the tarrifs levied from 01-Feb-2025.

      1. GloriousVictoryForThePeople

        Re: So, they're going to save money by....

        No,No, we are effectively getting the 25% duty back. China are paying us to take the servers!

    4. Not Yb Silver badge

      Re: So, they're going to save money by....

      Should work about as well as the Paperwork Reduction Act, which led to most government forms having to add a paragraph or two explaining how long it should take to finish filling out the form, and not much actual change.

  10. Omnipresent Silver badge

    Improve data collection

    They are going to force everyone onto the russian owned hive mind collective to control thoughts and minds..

    also, those making a big deal about open nazi salutes don't seem to remember the last ruspublic conventions, where they openly did nazi salutes, called themselves domestic terrorists, and handed out russian flags to everyone.

    You are so, so fuvked America

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Improve data collection

      "handed out russian flags to everyone"

      Citation needed.

      1. Omnipresent Silver badge

        Re: Improve data collection

        2017 cpac. They nazi saluted, announced themselves domestic terrorists, and were so blatant in their message, a couple of protesters replaced the flags with russian flags. Nobody knew the difference and handed them all out. The whole convention proudly waving russian flags.

      2. dangerous race
        Devil

        Re: Improve data collection

        Maybe not 'everyone' but . . .

        https://people.com/politics/why-cpac-attendees-russian-flags-trump-speech/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Improve data collection

          Ah, this is from like 8 years ago and involves a single person.

          So the guy handing out the flags was not in any way affiliated with Trump or any Trump supporting group.

          He had the flags confiscated and was removed from the event.

          And he is quoted as saying: “Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to the U.S. Constitution and the American people,” “That’s why Putin picked him for president, because he knows the Trump regime is good for Russian interests, not the American people. Trump is Putin’s puppet, a traitor to the United States, and must be impeached immediately.”

          So he is a TDS sufferer, hates Trump and drank the 'Russia Russia Russia' kool aid.

          This isn't the win you think it is.

          1. Not Yb Silver badge

            Re: Improve data collection

            If Republican supporters are dumb enough to wave Russian flags without realizing what they are... that's not the win you think it is.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Improve data collection

              Most 'merkins couldn't tell the difference between the French, Dutch and Russian flag. They certainly couldn't get a Union Flag the right way up. Actually most brits would probably fail both of those.

              Could be worse, they could be waving the flag of a country that killed many tens of millions of people, the red one with the hammer and sickle in the corner or the red one with the stars in the corner.

  11. DuchessofDukeStreet

    Relevant Experience?

    Those of us that used to be regular users of Twitter have experience of what happens when Elon gets his hands on existing technology platforms. Large quantities of staff are removed, it costs less to run, but it's no longer a place you want to hang around in much so its overall utility and value tanks.

    In the UK, I'd say most public facing government IT works reasonably well, if not brilliantly. I've avoided working behind the scenes on any of it but friends and colleagues would suggest it's somewhat inefficient and costly to implement and run, mostly due to management by committee and red tape. Does the same apply in the US?

  12. Tron Silver badge

    Hmm.

    18 months isn't long enough for a government department to do anything other than agree on bonuses and plan an agenda.

    I suspect they just want to force tech upgrades across the USG, which will mean that most of the software no longer works.

    This may be amusing.

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Hmm.

      "18 months isn't long enough for a government department to do anything other than agree on bonuses and plan an agenda."

      True, but this time they are going to attempt it with an emperator in charge and no committees allowed. No plans either. Just what feels right.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Hmm.

      >18 months isn't long enough for a government department to do anything other than agree on bonuses and plan an agenda.

      And fire anyone that doesn't fit

      1. ITS Retired

        Re: Hmm.

        Or fire anyone that does fit.

  13. Eclectic Man Silver badge
    Joke

    Department of Government Efficiency

    For some reason I cannot get the idea out of my head that it has been copied fiord the UK's (fictional) 'Department for Administrative Affairs'

    I just hope there is an America equivalent of Sir Humphrey Appleby to steady the ship. After all, Jim, Hacker had a 'major success' when he tried to shrink the UK's Civil Service:

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0751827/#

    1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      Re: Department of Government Efficiency

      I prefer the Department of Redundancy Department (thanks Firesign), even the name is inefficient. P.S. loved that show and the sequel.

  14. hammarbtyp

    Lets order a new set of pork barrels

    i smell bacon sizzling

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Lets order a new set of pork barrels

      "i smell bacon sizzling"

      You must be downwind from an HQ building in Austin, TX.

  15. DS999 Silver badge

    So how long before Musk announces

    A tech modernization of the IRS, something they've tried and failed to do multiple times since at least the 90s if not earlier.

    It'll be fun seeing all his lofty promises and the ostrich sized egg on his face when he fails spectacularly. I'm not sure if anyone is capable of modernizing the IRS systems, but if I had to pick someone I was sure could not do it he'd be at the top of the list. Massive hubris and telling people to sleep in their office and work 7 days a week is definitely not going to get any government projects accomplished!

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: So how long before Musk announces

      "A tech modernization of the IRS, something they've tried and failed to do multiple times since at least the 90s if not earlier."

      The "do it all at once" approach has never worked.

      "When confronted with a problem you don't understand, do the part you do understand and look at it again" ~Prof. Bernardo De La Paz

      I only wish I had been taught that in school.

      1. HereIAmJH Silver badge

        Re: So how long before Musk announces

        "When confronted with a problem you don't understand, do the part you do understand and look at it again" ~Prof. Bernardo De La Paz

        I only wish I had been taught that in school.

        Along the same lines as "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

        Any of us who have been in IT for a while has seen big projects go down in flames. It generally starts with a death march to release date. Followed by a catastrophic launch. Then limps into a qualified success as deliverables are redefined. And finally, key players moving on to new jobs while the grunts clean up the mess.

        But there is no way to upgrade the IT systems of the entire US government in 4 years. These guys will be long gone with fat wallets before accountability catches up. If you are into conspiracies, you might think that they are setting huge goals for a reason.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: So how long before Musk announces

          "But there is no way to upgrade the IT systems of the entire US government in 4 years."

          There could be parts that don't really need upgrading. The first steaks from the elephant need to define one or three things that are the biggest problem. Solve those in a way that doesn't break anything else and see what the next upgrade needs to be. I'd also suggest that if the UI isn't the bottleneck, not to mess with it as getting people up to speed is often the most time consuming and expensive aspect of new systems replacing old systems. I hate it when my eBay does yet another pointless rehash of their UI and I have to waste time figuring out how to do everything all over again with less organization. But, Hey! now the messaging looks just like text on a mobile instead of an email exchange. (Why?)

    2. HereIAmJH Silver badge

      Re: So how long before Musk announces

      They won't be looking to modernize the IRS. They are perfectly happy with the loopholes that allow them to avoid paying taxes.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: So how long before Musk announces

        They don't need loopholes. Trump controls the IRS - he can order them not to audit him and he will not only avoid paying taxes but probably claim multi billion dollar refunds.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: So how long before Musk announces

        "hey won't be looking to modernize the IRS. They are perfectly happy with the loopholes that allow them to avoid paying taxes."

        It's not so much the policies which Congress would have to thrash out, but the machinery behind the scenes. If you've ever wondered where M$ sold the bulk of the licenses for Vista................

    3. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

      Re: So how long before Musk announces

      Think it depends on your point of view. Tax audits are fewer and fewer and the rich pay a smaller percent of their "income" than ever. When a professed billionaire pay less in taxes than I do something is seriously wrong with the system.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: So how long before Musk announces

        >When a professed billionaire pay less in taxes than I do something is seriously wrong with the system.

        You don't like the system? Buy a better one

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: So how long before Musk announces

        "When a professed billionaire pay less in taxes than I do something is seriously wrong with the system."

        Billionaire? Are you sure?

        There's a massive difference between owning stock that might sell for $XX.XX today and an equivalent amount of cash in the bank (and being debt free). That's why those things are treated differently for tax purposes. One also has to go from your premise to who (in the US) is paying the largest percentage of tax revenue collected. Hint: It's not coming from the homies in the 'hood.

        Income tax applies to income, not wealth, assets, stocks being held, etc. It's also much easier to live less expensively when you have wealth. If you own your home outright, there's no monthly payment and no requirement to have insurance. You'd do better in many cases by holding money in a high interest account in lieu of buying insurance. Same goes for cars. Vimes' boots, etc. Lady Sybil wasn't out buying furniture since what she inherited was high quality and would last ages more. It's not taught in schools, but there are books on building wealth and planning to get to a position where you live quite well and aren't on the hook for loads of parasitic taxes.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: So how long before Musk announces

          Do you know what professed means?

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: So how long before Musk announces

          Or you just borrow against your stock, so you don't have to sell any and so pay even the reduced capital gains tax.

          Then when you die the value of your stock is reset to the current market value so the bank doesn't have to pay tax on it either.

          But the important part is the way this trickles down to the ordinary people.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: So how long before Musk announces

            Sadly. the only thing that'll trickle down will be spilling out of the edges of Trump's nappy.

            As the Great One once said "Shit Flows Downhill".

    4. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
      Coat

      IRS Computer Upgrades

      One problem with the US' IRS computer upgrades is that many important people have a vested interest in the IRS not becoming more-efficient!

      As to the problems with the Federal Aeronautics Administration's air-traffic control computers (attempted) upgrades ...

      Mine's the one with the 7-track UNIVAC magtape in the pocket.

  16. Omnipresent Silver badge

    CNN reporting

    Frumpy is investing 500 billion of tax payer money to spy on Americans through AI technology.

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/21/tech/openai-oracle-softbank-trump-ai-investment/index.html

  17. idler

    It all makes sense when you read it like Dodgy

    1. Omnipresent Silver badge

      Half a trillion! invested by the "private" sector my azz.

      These are the people who will get the kick backs and tax breaks forcing Americans to pay for it. Then they will have sole control over your thoughts and feelings while sitting back and printing money with frumpy's face on it.

      Americans are going to be like bruce willis in "the fifth element", when he is trying to scrape enough allowance credits together to get a cigarette from the robot dispenser.

      And the HELL to pay if you ever are able to get rid of these traitors.... I don't want to hear jack chit about the price of NOTHING. It's your own stupid monkey fault.

  18. Winkypop Silver badge
    Facepalm

    DOGE shit

    I just keep telling myself; Apparently this is what the majority of the voting public in America really want.

    They may not fully understand what they’ve got, but it’s definitely what they want.

    1. Wang Cores

      Re: DOGE shit

      Not all of us, but the sane are truly and well outgunned and outnumbered.

    2. Not Yb Silver badge

      Re: DOGE shit

      49% of voters, once all the votes were counted. A bit tired of politicians who would have to face a runoff election in most states (for not reaching more than 50% of the vote) claiming that they somehow have a "mandate from the people" to do any particular thing.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: DOGE shit

        "49% of voters, once all the votes were counted. A bit tired of politicians who would have to face a runoff election in most states (for not reaching more than 50% of the vote) claiming that they somehow have a "mandate from the people" to do any particular thing."

        So, to break it down, you don't know how the election system works in the US for electing a President nor how lesser elections rules apply.

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: DOGE shit

          "you don't know how the election system works in the US"

          Assumes facts not in evidence, given the quoted material you are replying to.

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: DOGE shit

            "Assumes facts not in evidence, given the quoted material you are replying to."

            A non-Presidential election doesn't require a candidate to get over 50% of the votes. The candidate with the most votes gets the position. If you have 5 people running for an office and one gets 30% of the total votes with the remaining 70% split equally amongst the other candidates (17.5% each), the one with the 30% wins. Talking about a "mandate" is MSM piffle and has nothing to do with the rules. Run-off elections are usually only going to be held if the margin between 2 candidates is within the counting error bars. If 2 are in the race and the tally is 50% each +/- 10 votes out of 100,000 ballots cast, that's likely going to be rerun since the spread is too close. If the number of ballots cast is 200 in total, I would doubt there would be a do-over. Of course, it would mean that around 101 people voted one way and 99 the other to be 50/50.

            The office of President isn't decided by a popular vote but through an "electoral" system which is very different than people in other countries realize. There's also good reasoning for the Electoral system. It's not perfect, but better than a popular vote. Maybe somebody will work out a better scheme some day to replace it.

            1. khjohansen

              Re: DOGE shit

              "There's also good reasoning for the Electoral system. It's not perfect, but better than a popular vote" - It would have held the GOP out of the WH the last 30 years (GWB only won b/c "incumbent").

              Given the economic mess left behind after "fiscally responsible" Republicans like 43 & 45 ...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: DOGE shit

      >this is what the majority of the voting public in America really want.

      Deserve. Democracy is the political system that gives you the government you deserve.

  19. PotNoodle

    Poor old Elon. Signed up for a bit of budget cutting, ended up with a public sector IT "mission". He'll be begging to go back to his rockets by Christmas.

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