back to article AI pothole patrol to snap flaws in Britain's crumbling roads

An oft-repeated myth is that potholes form through a combination of surface cracks, water, and traffic, but they're actually caused by chronic levels of underinvestment in public infrastructure. Surrey County Council, the local authority for the region southwest of London, is bucking that trend. Yes, Surrey "will now use AI …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AI?

    Is this really artificial intelligence? It sounds like an image recognition algorithm to me. There's no mention of any sort of machine learning or anything that I would consider makes it AI.

    I really am getting sick of anything that's remotely clever being labelled AI, just because it's the latest buzzword.

    1. munnoch Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      Just need an accelerometer to trigger on the bone jarring crash when you inadvertently drive into one of them. Or maybe just a microphone tuned to detect the resulting exclamation (which could be a use for ML).

      A manager of mine once said "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions". Which was uncharacteristically wise of him, he must have got it from someone else who had an actual functioning brain. Identifying the problem is almost never the hard part of improving the situation, its getting off your arse and having the wit and wisdom to do something about it.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: AI?

        Did he give you the budget to bring solutions?

    2. Captain Hogwash Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      I agree. What follows, a conversation I had with MS Copilot, is an example of real AI at work.

      Me: How can I best persuade people that they should use Linux instead of Windows?

      Copilot: Persuading someone to switch from Windows to Linux can be quite the challenge, but it's all about highlighting the unique advantages that Linux brings to the table. Here are some compelling points you can make:

      1. Freedom and Customization

      Open Source: Emphasize that Linux is open-source software, which means users can inspect, modify, and enhance the code. This often translates to greater security and adaptability.

      Customizability: Linux offers an unparalleled level of customization, allowing users to tweak their system to their exact liking. From the desktop environment to the kernel itself, every aspect can be tailored.

      2. Security

      Fewer Vulnerabilities: Linux is known for its robust security features and fewer vulnerabilities compared to Windows. It’s less targeted by malware, making it a safer choice.

      Regular Updates: Linux distributions often provide regular updates and patches that are swiftly rolled out, ensuring that security holes are quickly addressed.

      3. Performance and Efficiency

      Resource Efficiency: Linux is typically less demanding on hardware, making it a good option for older machines or systems with limited resources.

      Stability and Performance: Linux systems are renowned for their stability and performance. They can run for extended periods without the need for reboots.

      4. Cost-Effective

      Free of Charge: Many Linux distributions are free to download and use, which can be a significant advantage for those looking to cut costs.

      No Licensing Fees: Linux eliminates the need for costly licensing fees associated with proprietary software.

      5. Community and Support

      Strong Community: Linux has a large and active community

      1. cyberdemon Silver badge
        Meh

        @Captain Hogwash

        Can you at least keep AI-generated Hogwash off the Reg? It pollutes the Internet when people post LLM outputs.

        1. Captain Hogwash Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: @Captain Hogwash

          Well, pollutes AI training data is more how I see it. But sure, if it makes you happy.

      2. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        Re: AI?

        The HI (human intelligence) response:

        1. Freedom and Customization

        Most users (even the technically competent ones) would run a mile away from the very thought of messing with the OS code. Whilst Linux is customisable - first find out how and where - its a bit worse than Windows (but that may just be familiarity talking)

        2. Security

        OK I'll give you that, at least until it becomes as popular as Windows

        3. Performance and Efficiency

        Fair point but even W11 runs quite well on kit its not meant to be able to run on once you've spent half a day removing the bloat/rubbish

        4. Cost-Effective

        Yes until you cost in your time learning the new OS (assuming anything more than email and google)

        5. Community and Support

        As a normal mortal I generally fail to decipher the help and support

        1. Jim Whitaker
          Thumb Up

          Re: AI?

          Well said sir.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: AI?

          3. You don't need to spend half a day removing bloat/rubbish from Linux.

          4. "Learning the new OS" is a one-time cost; it generally doesn't change that much version-to-version. (Unlike Windows.) Compare to having to pay repeatedly for Windows.

          5. Compare to Windows support, which appears to be nonexistent for mere mortals.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      It will be machine learning, which isn't AI. There are two potential advantages: much easier to plot all the holes; potentially identify trouble spots before they develop.

      But without the money to fix them properly, councils will continue to patch the worst ones in adequately.

      1. Blitheringeejit
        Flame

        Re: AI?

        This is a longstanding bugbear of mine - I think ML *is* a kind of AI, but needs separating from generative AI / LLMs in the wider understanding of the term. Conflating LLMs with ML under the generic "AI" term leaves non-technical folks confused - which is now a major problem as these non-technical folks are now politicians who are spending millions (billions?) of our hard-earned on stuff they don't understand.

        FFS - let's deploy massive ML resources into NHS diagnostics, but keep the f***ing chatbots out our my conversations with my local council. It aint rocket science.

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: AI?

          If they put this on all the bin lorries etc, then you end up with regular checking of the majority of roads without increasing the number of journeys being made..

          1. Ol'Peculier

            Re: AI?

            That's a stonking idea, pretty much guarantees all roads checked twice a month. There were a few on a rat-run road near me until last month that the bin men will go down, but I doubt anybody else from the council would.

            They were reported on FixMyStreet and were, um, fixed though.

            1. John Robson Silver badge

              Re: AI?

              It should guarantee all residential roads - not sure it would cater for all link roads... but a month's worth of data would tell you which link roads aren't covered (dispatch routes might not tell you which joining roads are used).

              Of course the earlier they're detected the easier they are to fix, and you could even run image comparisons over time to see surfaces degrading before there is even a hole.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: AI?

            "If they put this on all the bin lorries etc, then you end up with regular checking of the majority of roads without increasing the number of journeys being made.."

            I attended a presentation locally pre-COVID (I think in late 2019) where someone did *exactly* this with the local council, though I think it used shock sensors rather than any video input.

            Not sure if/how it was commercialised.

            1. Like a badger

              Re: AI?

              "I attended a presentation locally pre-COVID (I think in late 2019) where someone did *exactly* this with the local council, though I think it used shock sensors rather than any video input."

              Was going on back in 2017, at least:

              https://actsurveyors.com/pothole-detectors-fitted-waste-trucks/

              Company concerned (Gaist) still seem to be around offering similar capabilities. At a guess councils are not taking this up either because it costs money they won't spend, because they see no point if they can't afford to fix the potholes, or perhaps "not invented here".

        2. Arthur the cat Silver badge

          Re: AI?

          Conflating LLMs with ML under the generic "AI" term leaves non-technical folks confused - which is now a major problem

          What we techies see as a problem the snake oil salesmen see as an advantage. Confused punters are more likely to buy the crap they're selling thinking it's useful.

    4. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: AI?

      There really is artificial intelligence involved - it exists in the heads of the council wonks... certainly can't be regarded as real intelligence!

    5. hoola Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      It is but calling it AI makes it sound more funky and up to date. Image recognition is "Legacy" so in the same way that anything that is no in a cloud service is classed as legacy by snakeoil salesmen, the same is happening here.

      It is all about the money.

    6. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      So AI can spot potholes but is unable to detect fire hydrants, bicycles or traffic lights in pictures?

      I think skynet is upto something

    7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: AI?

      "I really am getting sick of anything that's remotely clever being labelled AI, just because it's the latest buzzword."

      You need to take a look at this from the department's side. They may have been wanting to get this gadget for some time and not had the purchase approved. Add AI and it suddenly becomes something the Council has to be seen as investing in so as to keep up-to-date and furnish senior officials with bragging rights.

    8. UnknownUnknown

      Re: AI?

      It’s almost like they don’t already have a free-ish method of road users and council tax payers reporting this already …..

      https://tellus.surreycc.gov.uk/

    9. DafyddGrif

      Re: AI?

      Amen to your last sentence. There is no such thing as AI, despite the crud from politicians and so-called journalists who have no idea about what they write. REAL artificial Intelligence is still inside the skulls of most, not all, human beings. Even we cannot create a great deal. All we do is learn from others and adapt accordingly. Considering that an adult human brain contains around 86 billion neurons which in turn have a total of over 100 trillion synapses connecting with said neurons. I have a feeling that the current so-called 'AI' engines are a tad behind human intelligence and decades away from any credible AI engine.

    10. Alan Hope

      Re: AI?

      Perhaps if it delivered its reports as a series of limericks in the style of Spike Milligan.

  2. Mentat74
    Trollface

    Or...

    You could ask the people to 'tag' the potholes by spraypainting an outline of a giant penis around them...

    Makes it easier for the 'A.I.' to spot them...

    1. Blitheringeejit
      Go

      Re: Or...

      I trust everyone here is familiar with Wanksy? A hero of our time...

      https://news.artnet.com/art-world/wanksy-penis-drawings-potholes-292168

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Or...

        In Surrey, it was the Cock Lane Crusader

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Or...

      There was a spate of those markings on the A325 near the border with Hampshire and Surrey, south of Wrecclesham, near Farnham in Surrey a few months back. The stretch of road on the Surrey side got resurfaced, but the pot holes remain on the Hampshire side, and the markings are now either faded away or been removed - and when driving at night, some are difficult to spot till it's too late... As I can attest to just yesterday.

    3. hoola Silver badge

      Re: Or...

      You jest but for some time there has been a depression in teh road near me that has exactly that........

      About 6 months now.

      1. Ol'Peculier

        Re: Or...

        Has it got GPP?

    4. nijam Silver badge

      Re: Or...

      > Makes it easier for the 'A.I.' to spot them...

      Yes, that's how Artificial Insemination works...

  3. Guy de Loimbard Silver badge

    "And it can do all this even at speeds up to 60 miles per hour (96 kph), with accuracy of up to 95 percent compared to humans."

    Great stats, sounds great. Does it actually live up to the hype?

    Time will tell.

    And as A/C has already said, is it really AI? Doesn't sound like it to me either.

    I wonder if the technology cost more that the 12 payouts that Surrey have actually stumped up for?

    Clearly that's a rhetorical question as I think we all know what the answer is!

    1. Blitheringeejit
      Holmes

      60mph?

      I wonder what kind of vehicle they will mount this equipment on? Where will they find something which can survive running over potholes at 60 without breaking the suspension, puncturing the tyres, or generally suffering all the problems which are the reason why potholes need dealing with in the first place? Perhaps the World Rally Championship engineers can help...

      1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: 60mph?

        I regularly do that speed and more over potholes. Because I know where those potholes are, I can position my wheels to straddle or avoid the hole. It's really not difficult.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: 60mph?

          > I can position my wheels to straddle or avoid the hole. It's really not difficult.

          Until there is a car coming the other way and the only option to avoid collision is to drive through the pot hole….

        2. TchmilFan
          Facepalm

          Re: 60mph?

          I bow to your parochial omniscience.

          So as far as you're concerned, it's local roads for local people? Heaven forfend that you need to drive just a little bit out of your normal patch, or there's a new pothole that's filled with water.

          Perhaps one of your family members is visiting, their wheel cracks on one of these potholes you're familiar with (you forgot to send them your daily updated pothole list), and they're in a serious crash. Because of healthcare pressures, after emergency treatment they need expert care in an out-of-area hospital, it's a critical transfer so the ambulance can't speed and it's a crew that's new to route to the other hospital... you can see where I'm going?

          But it's okay, because you know where the potholes are, so you're okay.

          1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: 60mph?

            I never said that potholes are OK. I despise them and wish the council fixed the properly rather than the poor patchwork they keep repeating. I was merely responding to the "Where will they find something which can survive running over potholes at 60 without breaking the suspension" - the answer being that any vehicle can do that if driven appropriately for the road and conditions.

            Obviously if there's traffic around I slow down enough to avoid both the potholes and oncoming vehicles, or stop short of the holes if needed. And I only do such speed on roads I know - roads of unknown state get different treatment.

            Most of the potholes I'm referring to are about 2ft from the side of the road, which means I can position my nearside wheels nearer the edge and straddle the hole with no effect on traffic. One is in the very middle of the lane, so absolutely fine for cars (and ambulances!) but dangerous for motorbikes - that's on a major A-road.

    2. Ian K

      > "And it can do all this even at speeds up to 60 miles per hour (96 kph), with accuracy of up to 95 percent compared to humans."

      >

      > Great stats, sounds great. Does it actually live up to the hype?

      Well, "up to 95 percent" includes 0%, so I've no doubts it can live up to that.

      1. Hugo Rune
        Headmaster

        Man with a clipboard does better job.

        "up to 95 percent compared to humans." is actually at least 5% lower accuracy than a human.

  4. wolfetone Silver badge

    It's one thing to tag them, it's another to actually fix them.

    Too many times the council will send a contractor out to fix a pothole and they'll go out with a cold bag of tarmac and push it in. It's akin to going to the dentist and them blobbing on a bit of flouride in a cavity.

    The moment it rains, and it goes cold/freezes, then gets hit by a bus/HGV the patch breaks up because it's not integrated properly with the road surface. So the pothole not only reappears but it gets worse.

    That is the main problem with pot holes. Not the fact that they're there, but the fact they're never repaired properly. Until of course it's the end of the tax year and then the council + their dog goes out to do a whole raft of shitty nonsensicle road works on parts of the network which are fine.

    1. ICL1900-G3 Silver badge

      And what*really* pisses me off is that if I don't pay my council tax, I could go to jail..if they don't fulfill their obligations, they just shrug, and put the bill up as much as they can. End of rant!

      1. heyrick Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Aren't half these councils too busy throwing money at the likes of Oracle to do anything like maintaining infrastructure?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          What do you have if you have a hole half-full of Oracle 'consultants' ?

          Not enough consultants

        2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

          They are contributing to maintaining Larry's ocean racing yatch lifestyle. It's a very expensive past time. He's got to find the money somewhere

        3. Emjay111

          Don't forget PWC - and their 'cut and paste' consultancy reports that they used to fleece millions out of many UK councils.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        put the bill up as much as they can

        Which isn't enough to fulfill their obligations. Councils are spending a huge chunk of their money now on care for children and the elderly - and still not meeting the need. I'm afraid we've reached the point in "civilisation" where you have to choose between your suspension and your granny.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Surely you mean?

          Councils are being drained of public funds by private equity: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-14299457/Childrens-homes-run-private-equity-rake-millions.html

          (granted they sold them off in the first place, however, it jars when one has to feed their local council an ever growing amount of council tax, fail to maintain roads and leave bastards like me with a big repair bill after my vehicle hit a pothole).

    2. Caver_Dave Silver badge
      Unhappy

      I have a case out with my local Highways Dept. They are digging up (planning) the best bit of a local road and resurfacing. While completely ignoring the holes large enough to take a small cars wheel to the axle (and you can see the scrapes on the road surface where this has happened!) Different budgets was the answer I received to my first request! Some of the holes have been painted around by Highways 3 times, but still not fixed. To really annoy the Tax payers, you have to include a photograph, but you can only add three photographs per report. Over the past 10 years I've probably reported 100 pot holes on this particular 1/2 mile stretch of road! (As a Parish Council we tend to report on behalf of the Parish, but get no preferential treatment.)

      On another road - a causeway over a reservoir - that regularly floods to 15cm depth, because the 7 of the 8 drains are blocked, I have been reporting it and having it turned down since last Spring. It was 3rd time lucky and they have responded that the drains will be cleaned out in the next 26 weeks! Possibly related to the above flooding is a hole on the inside of a blind bend that is encroaching from the 1m deep ditch into the road. Again scheduled to be fixed in the next 26 weeks.

      Highways are an f'n joke!

      1. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
        Angel

        Outsourced?

        Because we all know that private industry is more <cough> efficient that public works.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Have you tried using Ai?

  5. David M

    Depth measurement

    "...It is able to calculate the width, length, and depth of potholes it discovers..."

    I wonder how an ordinary optical camera can measure the depth of a pothole - surely that would need some kind of radar/lidar/sonar.

    1. Roj Blake Silver badge

      Re: Depth measurement

      A pair of cameras should be able to estimate depth.

      1. Ball boy Silver badge

        Re: Depth measurement

        Irrespective of the number of cameras, an optical-only system fails miserably when the roads are wet because it can't 'see' into the water. The Met Office can offer details on the percentage of wet days but Shirley the Council will have figured out that, in the very season potholes tend to start opening up, they can't reliably get data from their curb-crawling?

        1. Andy The Hat Silver badge

          Re: Depth measurement

          "an optical-only system fails miserably when the roads are wet "

          That was my feeling too ... when is a puddle a 8'x4' wide dip in the tarmac and when is it a gaping chasm to hell filled with enough water to a whole flange of baboons?

      2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

        Re: Depth measurement

        One camera that is moved past it will return the same information.

      3. nijam Silver badge

        Re: Depth measurement

        > A pair of cameras should be able to estimate depth.

        ... or a single camera from two different vantage points, e,g, on a moving vehicle.

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Depth measurement

      To be fair, the council will try anything to deny a pothole is a pothole. Remember Cheshire Council and Darren? https://www.indy100.com/news/cheshire-west-chester-council-pothole-tweet-viral-disaster-meme-joke-funny-inspector-darren-8250396

    3. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Depth measurement

      A camera is quite capable of depth measurement - it doesn't only take one image, but a series of them from different locations as the vehicle moves...

      Of course it can't see through water, and can't tell damage to substrate...

  6. PCScreenOnly

    Surrey, NW London ?

    I never knew I moved across the Thames to North

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Surrey, NW London ?

      An AI has worked out that the River Mole can be used for tunnelling. Clever old AI!

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Surrey, NW London ?

      Well if you go far enough.....

  7. IamAProton

    Can we can automate..

    planting a banana tree in the biggest holes?

    https://mothership.sg/2024/02/banana-tree-plant-pothole/

  8. Ball boy Silver badge

    Or - as a cost efficient way of dealing with the same problem - they could have someone in Surrey Council keep tabs on the FixMyStreet website or perhaps implement their own 'report a problem' tracker.

    Hold on: neither of those solutions requires buying into some shiny new AI so it wouldn't get funding. Silly me, forget I mentioned it!

    Edit: FixMyStreet or their own problem tracker could also deal with busted street lighting, obscured / damaged roadsigns and myriad other issues rather than being a single-problem solution.

    1. James Anderson Silver badge

      Well an e-mail address would suffice.

      If they really wanted to go high tech an app which e-mailed a photo and the gps coordinates would probably make the council money.

      Still trying to locate some Real Intelligence. Seems to be Bert little left in the old country.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        For stuff like signs and street lamps an email to my local council (well, their road, electrical, water... whatever service department) works quite well. Stuff is usually fixed quite soon after reporting.

    2. tfewster

      I've used Fill That Hole (developed by a Cyclists organisation?) in the past; I reported about 20 potholes in a stretch of worn out road, they were patched within weeks and the road was later resurfaced.

      But for this "AI" to have comprehensive coverage, it needs to be fitted on bin lorries to cover all the roads in the area, not just the highways.

      1. WhyAHandle?

        It was done this way a long time ago as part of council trials: https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15020347.pioneering-pothole-detecting-cameras-to-be-fitted-to-york-bin-lorries/

        Now my understanding is it found so many that the council stopped the project as knowing about them made them liable to fix them!

        1. nobody who matters Silver badge

          <.....".......Now my understanding is it found so many that the council stopped the project as knowing about them made them liable to fix them!".....>

          It isn't so much being liable to fix the potholes; rather it is the case that once the pothole is known to the authority responsible for repairing them, they become legally liable to any damage or injury resulting from either a vehicle hitting the hole or a pedestrian tripping over because of it.

      2. RT Harrison

        Any road/street adopted by the council under a Section 38 agreement is a highway. They are maintained by the Highways Department of your local council.

        Private shared roads will not be covered, those roads will be maintained by the local residents that are served by that private shared road.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Roland6 Silver badge

        Given the speed at which pot holes can develop, the road surveys are going to need to be more frequent than once a fortnight…

        https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/people/i-went-to-see-the-a6s-worst-pothole-and-watched-repair-disintegrate-before-my-eyes-4935741

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      FWIW Surrey CC vehmently HATE fixmystreet - mainly because they can't simply mark things as fixed within 24 hours (As shown in a FOI request I filed a few years backi - 75% of reported potholes were marked "fixed" the next day - one particular pothole was reported and closed 40 times in 3 months)

  9. PCScreenOnly

    Sitting in traffic

    Well, the roads around here (Surrey - SW). Everyone is right up the car in fronts' arse, so if they do that too they will never see a pothole, just the backend of a car. If you don't get close enough to the car in front, horns are a blazing or people will try to cut in / around instead.

    As for the high speeds it can work at. No where around here can you reach that speed (hardly even 70mph). so much of the motorways / dual carriage ways are either 50 normally or under so much road works that 70 is hardly achieved.

    But lets see if things improve as that is the key thing here

  10. Andy Non Silver badge
    Coat

    Sorry mate,

    we can't afford to fix any potholes this year, we spent our entire pothole budget on the AI pothole detector kit.

  11. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    SEP

    This is just shiny baubles as a distraction. There are two problems that need to be dealt with before AI is touted as a solution.

    The first is that finding them is pointless if the councils haven't got the money to fix them, aren't allowed to raise taxes enough to get the money to fix them and the government isn't giving them any more money to fix them. The costs of their statutory duties (homelessness, SEND, care) are growing. 6 years ago my council spent about £250k a year on homelessness - it's forecast to be £3M this year and to keep on growing. SEND is forecast to bankrupt the education budget in about a decade if it grows at the current rate. Care homes are closing because the Private Equity cunts that bought them can't make the returns on them that they think they deserve so the costs of placements are increasing.

    The second is that because my council is broke it has a "partnership" deal with its roads contractor whereby it self-iinspects and self-certifies its work. This reduces the councils costs from bid through management and sign off of works and, unsurprisingly, results in work of the quality you'd expect from those three blokes in a Transit who knock on the door and ask if you want your drive resurfacting. As a result we have roads that are less than ten years old which are completely worn out and repairs are so shoddy that they don't last two mild southern winters before they unseal and start breaking up. They re-surfaced a local bike path two years ago and it's so uneven that you need a full suspension MTB to ride it.

    1. 42656e4d203239 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: SEP

      >>They re-surfaced a local bike path two years ago and it's so uneven that you need a full suspension MTB to ride it

      Bloody cyclists. If it weren't for them there would be enough budget for the roads... scabbing off road tax payers to use them anyway - why do they need cycle paths? never bloody use them... mutter mutter mutter

      /S just in case anyone is under any illusions of what I actually think; for a further hint look at the icon!

      1. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: SEP

        For the people who have never understood why cyclists, wheelchair users, electric buggies, pedestrians, guide dogs for the blind, horse riders etc don't have to pay road tax. No such thing as road tax! Vehicle Excise Duty.

        But I always look out for the trolls when crossing a bridge!

        1. ArrZarr Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: SEP

          It's also worth pointing out that damage is caused by kinetic energy (MV^2). I don't care how fast a cyclist is going, they'd need to be near the sound barrier to deal anywhere near as much wear and tear on a road as a lorry.

          1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

            Re: SEP

            Not mv2, but (axle load)4. That's why modern 48-tonne HGVs do so much damage. The road testing labs don't even bother to test with cars any more, it would take 4000 2-tonne cars to do as much damage as one 48-tonne 6-axle HGV.

            1. druck Silver badge

              Re: SEP

              HGVs don't tend to use residential streets.

              On the other hand SUVs and especially electric SUVs do, and with 4th power rule and those being 30% heavier then a standard car, that's causing almost 3x as much damage to the road.

              This is particularly noticeable in Surrey which is infested with the things.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: SEP

          AFAICR, however, it was called something like a road fund licence and paid to the local county council. Central government couldn't stand seeing money that didn't bring it into their own control. Giving it a name that related to roads would be far too dangerous - there would be a strong implication that it had to be spent building and maintaining roads so Vehicle Excise Duty was born.

          Treasury dislike of tying tax to specific areas of government is so strong that they invented a word for it: hypothecated.

          Without understanding what it meant nobody would want such a dreadful sounding thing as a hypothecated tax. Once it's understood it would be seen as a good idea - people like to get what they pay for and government could be held to its obligations.

          1. nobody who matters Silver badge

            Re: SEP

            <......."AFAICR, however, it was called something like a road fund licence....."......>

            That's right, the Government set up what was entitled The Road Fund to pay for the building and maintenance of road under The Roads Act 1920, and was principally paid for from Vehicle Exice Duty, which was commonly (and officially) referred to as The Road Fund Licence until 1936 when VED ceased to be 'hypothecated' for The Road Fund under The Finance Act 1936.

  12. Anon the mouse

    Find the right council

    "We imagine, though, that the diffusion of responsibility kicks in here, with the net result being that motorists think someone else will already have reported the gaping chasm in the road, thus it doesn't actually get reported."

    The main problem I've found is getting a report to the right council, if you report to borough and it's county they tell you to report it to county and vice versa. Each road and path can be either (or even parish), so it gets exhausting trying to report. Even using something like Love Clean Streets to make things quicker results in lots of "not us mate" replies from councils.

    That is if the council will even entertain fixing or sorting the issue, I have a rather lengthy "get lost" email from county stating they don't care enough to deal with a problem because residents won't let them and that would mean they'd have to put in effort.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Find the right council

      I've had success in writing an email addressed to the CEOs of the council and Yorkshire Water suggesting they sort it out between them to decide who was responsible. It makes it impossible for them to reply that you should have addressed it to the other. In that case YW stepped up.

  13. Peter Prof Fox

    The fix is conceptual

    A stitch in time saves nine. It costs less to deal with a smaller defect. Why not email the chief executive of your county council (etc) and ask them if they've ever known of a case where a hole healed up all of itself? It won't happen even with three rings of paint.

    There is already a fleet of vehicles that patrol the roads every fortnight. Dustcarts. Offer crews rewards for defects reported.

    Buses are often tracked in real time by GPS. A few of them with accelerometers on say front-left axle should be able to send red flags to highways. (And make damage claims easier because there's a definite record of the council knowing about it.)

    Of course being councils means every effort is made to quintuplicate the resources needed to fix anything. Why not send out fixing teams to see what they can find on a certain route? I KNOW there is rampant fraud in some councils when it comes to 'trusted' highway 'engineers' setting-up unnecessary jobs but where crews are in public and there's a lot of photographic evidence this should be manageable. What we need is pattern-spotting to deal with worse-than-surface issues not project-enhancing, bung-accepting 'engineers'.

    Finally: Use section 56 of the Highways act 1980. It's very simple to send an email headed NOTICE SECTION 56 HIGHWAYS ACT 1980 to the Chief Executive of the relevant Highways Authority. They hate that because they have 30 days to reply. And any definition of hole or blocked drain which they use to excuse themselves as not being worthy of attention is blown away. The test is Defective which a magistrate can decide on evidence.

    1. tfewster
      Thumb Up

      Re: The fix is conceptual

      Some great points there.

      I posted "bin lorries" before I read your comment. The problem with manual reporting is it's distracting the workers from what they should be doing and duplication. Automated detection and reporting makes sense there.

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: The fix is conceptual

        "Automated detection and reporting makes sense there."

        But the moment the AI screws up and misreports one, that'll open the doors to "It's the AI making stuff up innit?" <select><delete><select><delete><select><delete><select><delete><select><delete><select><delete>

    2. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Re: The fix is conceptual

      They're using bin lorries in, I think, Norfolk to map mobile phone signal strength.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The fix is conceptual

      There are plenty of council of vehicles (bin lorries) that cover a good % of the nations roads every week. Added to this there are volunteers who will happy give us some data to help fix the roads.

      There is an "AI" app out there that just needs a phone camera looking out the front https://www.stantheapp.com/ to record and report. The great thing about collecting this information systematically is that on days where you get poor data for on a road (rain, traffic obscuring etc) someone will go down the next day.

      The issues of identifying dangerous issues, poor quality etc is solved. Integrating the reporting into the existing regional highways districts would not be an expensive

      Because there is no funding the councils have no incentive to record all the issues.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: The fix is conceptual

      Unless the council is running the buses themselves reports from them would rank alongside reports from A.N. Other.

  14. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    Potholes that don't need immediate attention

    Is there such a thing? Surely _all_ potholes need attention, irrespective of size?

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Potholes that don't need immediate attention

      You would hope so.

      Except some councils have a stupid prioritising approach which is stupid.

      e.g. They repair potholes above a certain size on a stretch of road & leave the small ones alone.

      Most of the roads near me are more pothole than road, however in Autumn 2024 they did some "priority" repairs.

      Then a fairly typical Winter (which is still ongoing) - some snow, plenty of sub zero weather and so lots of freeze thaw to cause pothole expansion (not to mention lots of lorries on roads that are really unsuitable but are "rat runs") - a relatively high & hilly area so will always have some sub zero weather every Winter and usually there will be water or snow around at that time so get plenty of freeze / thaw damage.

      All those "small" potholes are now almost suitable for spelunking.

      So the "ignore the small potholes" approach failed spectacularly.

      Where I am is not exactly the best area to be if you want decent roads, so pothole fiascos are par for the course.

      https://www.derbyworld.co.uk/news/derbyshire-roads-among-worst-england-4566038

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Potholes that don't need immediate attention

        Where I am we have two teams. One team goes along a road, finding and marking all the holes. Then the other one comes and fills the marked holes. The problem is that in the intervening weeks or months, new holes appear and the filling in team are completely blind to anything not marked by the spotting team. They will completely ignore holes bigger than some of the marked ones. I suspect they would drive their van into a hole big enough to lose it down, if it wasn't marked.

      2. nobody who matters Silver badge

        Re: Potholes that don't need immediate attention

        <......."Except some councils have a stupid prioritising approach which is stupid."....>

        Stupid, yes; but nonetheless very necessary when the Council concerned doesn't have enough money to repair all of them, largely because the Government keeps restricting the Treasury Grant, and restricts the amount they are allowed to increase Council Tax by.

        Lincolnshire in particular has difficulty because there is a large area with a considerable road network, but because the population density is fairly low, it recieves a disproportionately small grant in relation the amount of road it has to maintain.

  15. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Not a myth

    An oft-repeated myth is that potholes form through a combination of surface cracks, water, and traffic

    This isn't a myth: it's how they occur. Their extent and frequency is affected by the lack of maintenance but also by heavier vehicls: lorries are allowed to carry a lot more than they used to and those SUVs that everyone loves put noticeable strain on many smaller roads as they weigh often two or three times of more compact cars.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not a myth

      Someone wasn't listening to The News Quiz this week...

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Not a myth

        Oh, I was but I preferred quips about Zaltzman delivering his own son…

        It's both policy and physics that roads are seeing far heavier – in both senses of the word – use than they were designed for and more and bigger potholes can't, therefore, be fixed by a bigger budget for road maintenance. But damage through use could be reduced by relatively simple, if immediately unpopular, measures such as speed and vehicle weight limits.

        1. nobody who matters Silver badge

          Re: Not a myth

          Slower speeds can actually put greater stress on the road surface.

          I recall a workmate of mine who had once worked on a road planing gang telling me about a section of the M25 they had to plane in readiness for a major resurfacing. This was only a few months after that section had originally been built. When he asked the site foreman why they were planing it off again so soon, the reply was "It wasn't engineered to be a car park!" It had started to subside because it was spending a large part of the day with slow moving or stationary traffic on it when the road had been constructed to a standard to cope with traffic moving at 50mph+ and the base construction wasn't designed to take the static loading.

    2. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Re: SUVs ... weigh often two or three times of more compact cars.

      Most of an SUV is empty space. There's not typically a huge weight difference between a car and an SUV of similar footprint. There will be a difference between a compact car and large car, but... duh. Comparing the smallest thing to the largest, just to make a point, is disingenous.

      EVs howerver... whole different storry. They're typically around half a ton or more heavier than an equivalently sized ICE car, depending on battery size, hybrid or full BEV etc. They often up around 2.5 tons, sometimes 3 tons. There's so much weight increase that a small EV or hybrid can weigh more than a large ICE car.

      Think the roads are bad now? Just wait until the government gets its way and ramps up the number of EVs on the roads. And this is not a rant against EVs. More of a rant against the government for monumentally failing to think through all the consequences of their grand plans, leaving the electorate to literally pick up the pieces of their broken cars from the roadside.

  16. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    And then there's kent roads

    Every time I've had to change car tyres in the last mmmfty mmf years it's been due to a pot hole, seemingly cleverly placed just after a bend in the road and/or disguised by fallen leaves on a water filled chasm. I can't remember a time when any of them had to be changed through actually being worn out!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And then there's kent roads

      > seemingly cleverly placed just after a bend in the road

      That's part of how they form. When a vehicle is accelerating the drive tyres are putting more frictional strain on the road surface than when coasting. And after a bend is where a vehicle is more likely to be accelerating. And then the effect is amplified if the differential doesn't split torque exactly evenly: one 'track' becomes much more pothole prone.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: And then there's kent roads

        So the real problem isn't the weight of vehicles, it's them using wheels.

        Is that site selling ex-military kit around, and do they have any Chieftains?

        1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

          Re: And then there's kent roads

          Sod that: I want a flying car; no contact with the road means no wear. Star Wars landspeeder, perhaps?

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: And then there's kent roads

            Not with the way those bloody Jawas drive around here

    2. nobody who matters Silver badge

      Re: And then there's kent roads

      <......"Every time I've had to change car tyres in the last mmmfty mmf years it's been due to a pot hole".....>

      Assuming that you haven't done so already, it might be worth considering fitting XL (Extra Load) rated tyres if they are available in your tyre size. The sidewalls are better reinforced and although they do give a marginally harder ride, it is not particularly noticeable and they do tend to be a lot more resistant to pothole damage. I've been using such tyres for the last 20 years, and have never had any pothole damage, despite a good number of quite severe pothole impacts.

  17. DafyddGrif

    Two things come to mind after reading this article. The first is that road resurfacing, not small repairs, is a major part of the pothole problem. In the past (probably over 15 years or more), when roads were resurfaced, the depth of the top layer was at least 50-75mm. Look today at roads that have recently been resurfaced and you will see the depth of the top layer no greater than 20mm. The increase in traffic, especially multi-axle trucks with maximum weight, take a massive toll on such thin top surfaces. Where I live, in the Welsh border region, I have watched newly resurfaced roads begin to break up after only 12-18 months. If roads were resurfaced as in the past, they would be more likely to withstand heavy traffic and there would be far less pothole issues.

    The second issue is the statement in your article It's an example of real AI being genuinely and practically useful' - politicians and journalists love this acronym 'AI' - in reality, it does not exist, and according to my colleagues at Sci-Tech Daresbury, 'real' AI is decades away from reality. One of my colleagues recently made this statement 'So-called AI is merely machine learning technology. Real AI is when a computer system can actually create information entirely from scratch, not just crawl the Internet and sling data together' -

    1. Chris Fox

      Surface dressing

      Those thin layers of tar and gravel are really just 'surface dressing'; a cheap way of supposedly extending the life of a failing road surface. But they often have their own issues: they hide small potholes, flake off, and can have a really rough finish. This increases tyre wear, particulates, and noise pollution, and can cause serious difficulties for those on two wheels. Unfortunately local highways budgets for existing roads often just amount to pennies per meter.

      There's lots of research to suggest we'd be much better off if all new road projects were postponed, or cancelled, and the money was instead spent on maintaining existing assets, rather than creating even more unmaintained roads. This is a long-standing political issue (favouring capital expenditure over covering recurring costs, partly due to the bizarre way that "deficit" is assessed). The maintenance problem has become even worse following Osborne's ultra austerity regime. Talk of AI is just a stupid distraction by corporate kool-aid drinking Starmer et al.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Surface dressing

        So if the council ran a scraper over minor roads, removing the surface, then the amount of roads they had to maintain would be reduced and they would have more money to spend.

  18. s. pam
    Mushroom

    What utter twaddle

    You don't need Ain't Intelligence boffinry to know where the potholes are! Just look for the tyre carcasses, drivers swerving/hitting their brakes to know where they are!

    It would be shocking to deploy this gadgetry in Buckinghamshire, which is totally like driving on the Moon!

  19. paulxb

    Stan the App (stantheapp.com) does a similar thing but anyone can use the app to survey roads. Though it still depends on the council to repair them!

  20. Mike 137 Silver badge

    "the flood of hallucinating large language model chatbots"

    "Hallucinating" implies existence of cognition, so in the context of "AI" it's just another example of marketing bullshit. Why not just be honest and say "the output is (predictably) nonsense because the machine hasn't a clue what it really means"?

  21. PerlyKing
    Flame

    Re: citizens are expected to pop their postcode into a website

    Which is lazy on "their" part, and an abuse of the postcode system which is designed to facilitate the delivery of post. The last time I wanted to report a pothole it was at a rural road junction not near any property - what's the postcode for that? No postcode, no pothole, no problem, right?!

    If they're really interested in finding out where the potholes are, they could make it easier for people with Actual Intelligence to report them, maybe by sticking a pin in a map?

    1. nobody who matters Silver badge

      Re: citizens are expected to pop their postcode into a website

      There will still be a postcode, regardless of whether there are any buildings nearby. However, the drawback is that where there are few properties, the postcode area could be quite large.

      It would be much better if they would utilise the OS grid reference, or failing that use whatthreewords.

  22. Lord of Cheese

    AI Wooo

    Here's a suggestion, how about actually maintaining the roads before they wear out?

    Also, how about investigating tapping into the data recorded by Waze users, you can log potholes / road hazards on there?

    1. nobody who matters Silver badge

      Re: AI Wooo

      They would do if they had the money. Most local Councils don't have enough to cover all their obligations, the Government keeps wanting to restrict their grant, and also limits the amount by which they can increase Council Tax.

      Of course, all of this money ultimately comes from taxation, and whilst some is paid by corporations, in the end the entire cost comes down on ordinary individuals like you and I and a large part of the population start screaming if anyone suggests increasing the tax thery have to pay.

      It's another of those vicious circles.

  23. Dwarf

    Won't make a difference

    Even with information, they don't act, as anyone will know if they drive the A3 to A31 junction and see the piles of fly tipping along the road. Many people have reported it, but they still don't clear it, even after a couple of months.

    How will AI magic pothole detection help ?

  24. Caver_Dave Silver badge

    Police view

    I know a Traffic Cop who tells me his force has redefined some of the criteria for identifying suspect drunk/drug driving.

    It used to be: driving too slowly and weaving about the road

    Now it is: driving at a reasonable speed and not weaving around the potholes

    I wish I could add the Joke icon, but I believe he was serious!

  25. Ball boy Silver badge

    Ah. This probably isn't a good idea.

    I've just realised: the Highways Act requires the owner of a road to make good any defects in a reasonable time once they've been made aware there's a fault.

    It follows that if a motorist smashes a wheel on a pothole, they can make a FOI request for the data (I can't see that request having any reasonable grounds for refusal: a photograph taken in and of a public place? Hardly privileged information). If the information is date-stamped as more than a month old, immediately submit a claim for damages to the Council* on the grounds they have failed to meet their legal obligations.

    Watch this whole idea get quietly shelved once someone realises this could all cost them an absolute fortune, either in compensation or firefighting FOI requests.

    * The road may not be Surrey's: Class A roads, for example, are generally National Highways rather than the responsibility of a local Council - but Surrey probably won't map roads they're not responsible for

    1. 42656e4d203239 Silver badge

      Re: Ah. This probably isn't a good idea.

      >>Class A roads, for example, are generally National Highways

      Oh noes! someone on t'internets are wrong!... can't let that rest.

      Class A roads are all maintained by the LA. Class A(T) (such as A31(T)/A35(T), A3(T), A34(T)) are National Highways pigeon - Trunk roads are legally different to Class A roads.

      Map showing all National Highways roads.

      1. nobody who matters Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Ah. This probably isn't a good idea.

        <....."Trunk roads are legally different to Class A roads.".....>

        And grammatically, trunk roads are legally different from A roads ;)

        Sorry, the pedant got the better of me.

  26. Luiz Abdala
    Joke

    Time for some creativity.

    One guy started drawing todgers around the potholes, so the City Hall could more easily detect them. I think it was Canada or in the US.

    The potholes were repaired in record time.

    edit: I was thinking Canada, but a New Zealander and a Brit had the same idea.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/bizarrelife/comments/zskx0i/manchester_man_draws_penises_around_potholes_so/

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Time for some creativity.

      So we arrest the penile painter and if anyone under 18 sees it we prosecute them for extreme child naughtiness

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Time for some creativity.

      Publicity can be effective. I know of one road that was promoted as being the worst stretch of road - presumably in some sort of competition along the lines of "our local road's worse than yours". People started to visit it to see for themselves how bad it was. They were too late. All they could see was a billiard-table smooth surface because it had ben properly resurfaced PDQ.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time for some creativity.

        > Publicity can be effective.

        Daventry: twinned with Grand Canyon!

        (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-68577068)

  27. Helcat Silver badge

    A myth? Realy?

    "An oft-repeated myth is that potholes form through a combination of surface cracks, water, and traffic, but they're actually caused by chronic levels of underinvestment in public infrastructure."

    Nope, the pot hole is caused by the failure of the running course: The tarmac. This can be due to several factors, but the main ones are tears (cracks) in the bitumen that is binding the aggregate (rock chips) allowing said chips to be tugged free, or for water ingress that can then freeze and force the cracks to widen and/or lift the running course from the under layer (hard core), or simply erode the hard core leaving a void under the tarmac.

    If these are not fixed, they get worse, and that's where the issue of funds for repairs come in.

    Now, there is a problem: Roads are designed to handle a predicted combination of vehicles. Vehicles have been getting larger, heavier and faster, meaning the roads aren't seeing the anticipated types of vehicle: They're having to cope with worse. End result is they fail faster meaning they need repairs more frequently. That then drains the council's budget for highway repairs. Add in the normal council incompetence and it can only get worse.

    But what's really needed, isn't repairs: It's for the roads to be replaced of a design better suited for the modern car - and in particular, the EV. That's expensive, but it needs to happen else the issue of why the potholes are forming won't be addressed.

    Now to the AI angle: This isn't going to help, even if whats used is an actual AI. Rather, it's a waste of money that could better be spent upgrading the roads.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: A myth? Realy?

      The situation hasn't been helped by the bright idea of adding a high friction coating at areas considered to be dangerous. Heightened friction combined with a strong binding to the tarmac has resulted in the tarmac being torn apart.

    2. Caver_Dave Silver badge
      Flame

      Roads are designed to handle a predicted combination of vehicles.

      The road through my village was a muddy track until the early 19th Century. It lies just 4 to 1 feet above the water table along the length and is closely lined by 17 listed buildings.

      Both the width of the road (the gap between listed buildings) and the thin depth of the surface cause constant problems with the surface breaking up and utilities breaking. There is almost permanently at least 1 water leak in one 100m stretch (some of it in old pipe, but some in modern plastic piping.)

      The main problem is 42T Articulated Lorries in the day transporting grain between grain stores, and all day and night lorries travelling between distribution hubs.

      As a Parish Council we have been campaigning for over 25 years for a weight limit, but the local Highways Dept. have placed weight limits on the roads to the North and South (where the roads were much better, but County Councillors lived!) during that time and made our road the only short option. This is the reason they refuse to give us a weight limit - the poor lorries will have to travel a few miles out of their way on the A roads.

      1. nobody who matters Silver badge

        Re: Roads are designed to handle a predicted combination of vehicles.

        I think you will find that they are 44 tonnes ;)

  28. Oh Homer
    WTF?

    How on Earth can the council not know?

    One of our many local potholes is called Harry. He celebrated his 23rd birthday last Wednesday. There was cake and everything.

    That makes him older than the average mental age of our councillors.

    Why would the local council be somehow unaware of the existence of a two decade old pothole, that they would feel it necessary to waste taxpayers' money on some "AI" robot to hunt them down?

    Just literally get in your car and drive, anywhere. They're impossible to avoid.

    Instead of wasting money on stupid robots, how about using it to actually, you know, fix the damned roads?

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Huh?

    I thought part of the problem was that councils often can't afford to fill the holes they know about

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Somerset

    Somerset Council doesn't have the money to repair roads. One blocked drain has been flooding the road for 5 year's....one 50ft stretch of road has had 5 car crashes in last 2 years caused by this....but Council knife and say they can't afford to repair

  31. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Its fun around here

    take your typical route through an industrial estate.. not shabby but with 42 ton trucks, rather pothole and uneven road surface prone... so the local council decide that the road is being damaged by speeders (theres a number of car/bike workshops in the estate too).

    So lets address the problem by installing speed humps......

    Now here comes the fun..... you'd think they'd install the humps where the potholes form from the uneven road surface.......... NOPE ..... however... with the 42 ton trucks going over the humps and the real reason the road is uneven (its foundations are about 1940 old and knackered)... we're now getting dirty great big holes forming either side of the speed humps (I wish I was making this up) and its only a matter of time before the surface cracks and falls apart ... along with the areas where the potholes were previously forming...

    Then we get along to fixing the damned holes , yeah cheapest contractor to throw a bit of hot tarmac in there... AND because of the lack of road inspectors (or lack of skills in the one that does work for the council) the contractor self certifies the fix..... which means he has no interest in doing it properly so he can get another £3000 off the council for fixing it again in 6 months time.

    Personally I've lost one wheel and tyre to a water filled pothole I got forced to drive into

    1. nobody who matters Silver badge

      Re: Its fun around here

      44 tonnes even ;)

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The good news is we’ve found all the pot holes

    The bad news is we’re not doing anything about them.

  33. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

    street bump

    There is an app under development called Street Bump that uses a smartphone sensors to detect potholes and automatically inform the city of the pothole. Apparently it initially detected sunken manhole covers 4 times as often as if did potholes resulting in the repair of over 1000 of the worst manhole covers.

  34. Nonymous Crowd Nerd

    I have the misfortune to live in Surrey..

    And I recall a long saga in 2018 regarding one particular road - Seven Hills Road. To say it had a large number of potholes would be the understatement of the century. There were articles in the papers.

    Despite - or perhaps because - it is a significant cut through route nothing was done for months (years?) as it gradually reverted closer and closer towards being a rutted country track. Thousands of drivers suffered delays and bruising risks as people would route themselves around the potholes and into the path of oncoming traffic.

    As can be seen from this article

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/seven-hills-road-decision-deferred-14443148

    the council were well aware of the problem. A fancy black box certainly was NOT required! Since the news story has apparently "been substantially amended," it seems that the council did have the time and funds to "have a discussion" with the journalists.

    If only they could actually fix the roads rather than spending on PR, lawyers and black boxes we would be a lot safer.

    In the end, all of a sudden the road became an emergency - huge numbers of very well paid contractors had to work overnight to thoughtfully resurface about half of its length.

    1. Nonymous Crowd Nerd

      Re: I have the misfortune to live in Surrey..

      The road also featured in this national list..

      https://www.petrolprices.com/news/worst-places-england-potholes-revealed/

    2. not.known@this.address
      Happy

      Re: I have the misfortune to live in Surrey..

      Seven Hills Road? Isn't that the one runs past one end of the St George's Hills estate? I would have thought SCC were rather keen to keep on the good side of multi-millionaires..?

  35. spold Silver badge

    Networked AI

    ...requires two+ networked AI bots...

    Bot 1: I detect a possible pothole

    Bot 2: Investigating..... AIIIIIIIIIII! <splat>

    Bot 1: Pothole confirmed <measures duration of "AI!..." scream audio> about 2m deep and larger than Bot 2.... {msgs... require 50kg filler and one new bot at location....}

  36. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    "Yes, Surrey "will now use AI to detect potholes to help speed up road repairs across the county.""

    So someone just reporting them isn't good enough?

    Guess they need to determine it's really, really bad before bothering to fix anything. As usual.

  37. Lusty

    This is the stupidest use of technology. The costs are massively increased doing unnecessary admin.

    Buy some A-Z maps and some felt tip pens. Get the people who fill potholes to drive down roads and fill every hole they find. Don’t “assess” the holes, just fill them. When a road is done, use the felt tip to mark it in the map. Eventually all roads are complete and you buy new A-Z maps.

    We shouldn’t celebrate people making these solutions, we should fire them.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    East Sussex have a much better system.

    Speak to someone you know who has Facebork and ask them to search for Sinkysnap - while not quite an [i] Artificial [/i] Intelligence, 'it' does get results...

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