
So, the US government is going to pay $20B to buy half of TikTok, or they're going to seize it? I can't imagine either happening...
US president-elect Donald Trump appears to have proposed the government he will soon lead should acquire half of made-in-China social media service TikTok’s stateside operations. That is the same Trump who four years ago put in motion a ban on the video-sharing app in the United States. His latest suggestion came in a Sunday …
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The defining feature of socialism is that the state own the means of production. This has the advantage that as well as being able to tax, arrest, convict, fine and imprison you the government can also promote, demote and fire you. When it is the other way around: (the owners of) the means of production owns the state then it is called a plutocracy and it has exactly the same advantages as socialism. US voters have got tired of having two routes to the same destination so the voted for a kakistocracy instead.
> The defining feature of socialism is that the state own the means of production.
Close, but no cigar. That might be said of some interpretations of communism, but the defining feature of socialism is (as the name suggests) social ownership of the means of production, which is not the same thing as state ownership...
So are all the grants given to farmers to keep them in business. But Americans never have been willing to look at their country and it's policies honestly - that would require admitting that maybe the US isn't "the greatest country in the world", just the most heavily armed.
That's the main problem.
This experiment has now created a precedent to obtain a chunk of ANY foreign company which manages to be successful in the US, but I guess con jobs and blackmail are the only tactics open to Trump to actually MAKE money rather than losing it hand over fist. Remember , this is the man who could not even run a casino profitably.
Agreed and I don't really care about TikTok either way. However, a law has been passed, validated by the Supreme Court of the land and gone into force. Law enforcement is required to act to enforce the law and it cannot be set aside just because the incoming president thinks more time is needed: he's neither legislator nor judge. This is quite clearly a power grab and attempt to sideline the rule of law and should worry everyone.
Law enforcement is required to act to enforce the law and it cannot be set aside just because the incoming president thinks more time is needed: he's neither legislator nor judge. This is quite clearly a power grab and attempt to sideline the rule of law and should worry everyone.
The far-left is already plenty worried and jumping at shadows. All those things that El Presidente might do, but hasn't.. yet.
So this-
The law that bans TikTok is the Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act and passed Congress and the Senate
Trump's proposing a pause on enforcing that Act so the Congress and Senate might want to reconsider it, amend it, or repeal it. The legislative bodies have done this many times in the past with bad legislation. Alternatively it creates 90 days for a US entity to step up and meet the requirements of the Act, which assumes ByteDance would be willing to comply with it. But for some reason, people have chosen to assume that a 'tweet' saying-
I would like the United States to have a 50% ownership position in a joint venture
Has been taken to mean US government rather than some unknown US entity. Maybe the US will act as a buyer of last resort, creating an entity that might later be flogged off, but nobody knows because nobody has seen the Executive Order. Then people have floated $20bn, when the 50% might cost the US nothing because it'll be a cost of doing business, if TikTok wants to comply and remain available in the US. But the 50% thing would probably require the Act to be amended anyway because AFAIK the Act specifies 100% US control.
The law is already in force and TikTok has been made available again. I don't think the law was necessary and I don't think it is a "good" law but it has already been tested through the courts.
Congress is free to legislate as it sees fit but it's difficult to see a presidential decree being sufficient in this case. And, if it is, this is a dangerous but unsurprising precedent. In the meantime, if a breach of the law is tested by the courts, I would hope they would uphold it.
Congress is free to legislate as it sees fit but it's difficult to see a presidential decree being sufficient in this case. And, if it is, this is a dangerous but unsurprising precedent. In the meantime, if a breach of the law is tested by the courts, I would hope they would uphold it.
That's really the point. The law is currently the law, and TikTok should be closed down. Trump's using an executive hold to suggest a pause and a rethink. Come Tuesday, or whenever Congress resumes their session, someone could draft an amendment, Speaker table it, the amendment is passed or fails, and US TikTok'ers may go dark again. So far, so normal and no precedent has been set because Trump is not yet President and there's no Executive Order. Dems could of course petition the Supreme Court to uphold the ban, and then Trump could tell the millions of US users that he tried to save them.
Which is all a bit strange given retaining the ability to post cat videos doesn't seem one of the most pressing issues for the US, but that's modern politics for you.
Didn't the law have a clause allow for the president to extend the deadline for 90 days from the deadline?
So it sounds like Trump has just said he will activate that 90 day extension to allow for Bytedance to find a US buyer.
As for the proposed US government becoming a 50% owner, even if they can get a 50% ownership for $1, part ownership of a social media app is not what governments should be spending any of their citizens money on. If Bytedance can't find a private US buyer or don't want to sell then they should just close it down now in the US.
Social media sites come and go, (remember Myspace, Bebo, Friends Reunited, Vine, Musically etc) and while some people may mourn the loss of Tiktok, something else will come along and fill the gap and there are already lot similar platforms will much smaller user number that grow to become the next Tiktok.
But lets hope for their sake any alternatives are made in the USA or at least a country that is currently friendly with the states or else they might be the next ones facing a ban.
quite clearly a power grab and attempt to sideline the rule of law and should worry everyone
Like it or not an incoming president whose party controls congress wields a lot of power, and laws go unenforced all the time (Trump himself would point to immigration laws as a prime example). So if he says, with no actual legal authority, that there's 90 days, there is nevertheless, in some substantive sense, 90 days. It's a textbook realpolitik situation.
ByteDance have nothing to lose by trusting his word. Their multi-billion dollar asset is on the line. The ones whose legal teams will have been kept up at night are the app store owners who have to decide whether to supply TikTok in their walled gardens.
By burning $20,000,000,000 of the US tax payer's money on something that is completely unnecessary to anybody, anywhere?
This isn't what is being proposed. The proposal is that some US entity will spaff $20bn, or whatever an agreed sale price would be for 50% of TikTok. That'll get interesting because the types of companies that could afford $20bn probably already play in the 'social media' space, so would create competition concerns, eg FaceMelta, Apple, AlphaGoo etc. Plus how a deal would be structured so the US gets the control and acccess it wants, and the new co-owner gets something that justifies the purchase price.
And a $20bn valuation seems somewhat dubious, and ByteDance might be unwilling to let a partner buy in. I'm guessing that it'll end up settling with a regulated deal where ByteDance firewalls US users and they call it good.
Honestly, with the collapse in value of X (brought on entirely by Musk) and a struggling Tesla I doubt that he actually can. He's likely leveraged up the wazoo and I doubt he's currently going to find much external capital with friendly enough terms that he'll want to risk it.
You're assuming that having struck the deal he'll pay up the agreed price rather than, having acquired the shares but not yet handed over the money he'll then negotiate the price down. He might just hand the details over to his new mate who's reluctant to pay anything at all.
You're ignoring the fact that it would be structured that the government would pay $20b to trump enterprises to ensure that 50% of tiktok stayed in US hands, trump enterprises would then pay substantially less to bytedance for the privilege of saying they owned 50%. The trump family would be richer, the people poorer and bytedance/the chinese state would carry on exactly as before.
He said the USG would acquire half of it.
No, he did not. He said he wanted the US to acquire half of it. So some US entity, not necessarily the USG. Then in a true Chinese whispers style, people picked that up, ran with it and the $20bn valuation appeared. There's now been pics of a stack of Executive Orders on the Resolute desk, so if/when an EO relating to TikTok is published, there'll be a bit more clarity.
Has Elon been doing social media company valuations again? Despite the fact that a competitor company that also does nothing more than spew an endless stream of piss poor quality 15 second home made videos of idiots acting like dicks into mobile phones would be trivial to set up, that valuation would need an underlying business model and income stream greater than any company in human history, as any business savvy person worth taking seriously would realise.
Musk has previously ranted about "state affiliated media" and falsely labelled NPR and the BBC as such by not checking for evidence to the contrary.
The USA now has a social media affiliated government. The first act of Musk's new government will be to buy out a competitor with tax payers' money,
What a joke, the Chinese government owns ZERO percent of TikTok (which is a Singaporean company), but the US 50%?!
I think we can all see what sort of propaganda the platform would become if that happened..
Seems Trump thinks this will satisfy the "divestiture" requirement.
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS6qnGFDE/
Wasn't the point of shutting down TikTok or divesting Chinese ownership was to protect US National Security interests. Well there you go, easy fix, If they don't want the Chinese to know any national security secrets, don't post them to TikTok. There you go Donald, I just saves you 20 billion dollars. You can send some of those savings my way.
"Hold my diet coke"
There will be many, many deaths with this forced deportation thing that starts today. They will try to deport US born citizens because they have the same name as some immigrant. The resulting shootout will make the destruction of whole villages in Irag etc seem like a walk in the park.
This will get very messy folks.
I am so glad that we didn't stay in the US and become citizens when we had the chance (H1B Visa) or we'd be on the 'hit list' because my skin is not pearly white. My Granddad came from Nigeria.
There will be many, many deaths with this forced deportation thing that starts today. They will try to deport US born citizens because they have the same name as some immigrant. The resulting shootout will make the destruction of whole villages in Irag etc seem like a walk in the park.
Paranoid much? But the proposal is to do what Biden (and Starmer) didn't, and uphold the law. Illegal immigrants will be deported, as they should be. If they start shooting at ICE agents, that just shows why they should be deported.
I am so glad that we didn't stay in the US and become citizens when we had the chance (H1B Visa) or we'd be on the 'hit list' because my skin is not pearly white. My Granddad came from Nigeria.
That's pretty racist, but if your family was in the US legally with a visa, just show that and you wouldn't have been deported because you were there legally.
>Paranoid much? But the proposal is to do what Biden (and Starmer) didn't, and uphold the law. Illegal immigrants will be deported, as they should be. If they start shooting at ICE agents, that just shows why they should be deported.
You can only deport someone if you can prove who they are and which country they come from. You are more likely to end up with large camps full of people whose status is under question but they can't be sent anywhere - Mexico doesn't want Cubans, Cuba doesn't want Columbians and Columbia doesn't want Mexicans.
Although once you've rounded up all those illegals into a nice camp, you'll be able to use the prisoner slave labour parts of the law to make them work all the jobs Americans don't want to do for a pittance per day.
You can only deport someone if you can prove who they are and which country they come from. You are more likely to end up with large camps full of people whose status is under question but they can't be sent anywhere - Mexico doesn't want Cubans, Cuba doesn't want Columbians and Columbia doesn't want Mexicans.
Seems reasonable. Or if illegals entered via Mexico, send them back to Mexico. Point is if someone is in the country illegally, then they should be detained, deported or granted leave to remain if that could be justified. I had a friend who went through the process. Went to the US on a tourist visa, started working there, got caught, detained for about a day, then put on a plane back to the UK, never to return.
But it's much the same problem as the UK has. France doesn't want illegals, so just moves them on to the UK where it becomes the UK's problem. Although why so many illegals request asylum from France and the EU is a strange situation.
Although once you've rounded up all those illegals into a nice camp, you'll be able to use the prisoner slave labour parts of the law to make them work all the jobs Americans don't want to do for a pittance per day.
Perhaps, but then that's often the fate of illegal immigrants anyway, so ending up in sweatshops or worse with limited legal protections because they're, well, illegal. Plus it's arguably why Biden turned a blind eye to illegal immigrants because the Dems wanted cheap, compliant labour.
It's not paranoid when they're coming to get you.
If someone is in a country illegally, then obviously they've broken the law, are criminals and perhaps should be paranoid. It's somewhat ironic that people are arguing that Trump should uphold the law by banning TikTok, yet shouldn't by deporting illegals.
The entire fucking Windrush generation of immigrants would like a word about the difference between the legal right to remain in a country and having paperwork to prove it. Your faith in the government getting this correct is entirely misplaced.
The difference being the Windrush generation had the legal right to remain, and the burden of proof. The US is rather different and it's pretty much impossible to do anything without official ID. So yes, my faith might be misplaced, especially after seeing the incompetence from politicians on both sides of the pond. But the fundamental issue is whether people are legally resident, or not. If they're not, then they should be removed. Some illegal immigrants (ie criminals) might choose to destroy identity documents making it difficult to deport them, but they should be detained until their identity can be determined, or they choose to leave.
It might be harsh, but unless or until laws are changed, it's the law.
This all started when TikTok users reserved tickets for a Trump Rally. About a million people signed up, Trump expected 100,000 to show up and overflow the arena with a capacity of 19,000. On the day empty seats outnumbered the people. There is a genuine concern about misinformation being spread on social media. Perhaps a decade from now China will attempt to blackmail an official with a video of the official doing something stupid when he was a teenager. I am sure the result will be "Publish and be ignored. People are too busy watching millions of videos of people being even more stupid".
Different people can do the same thing for different reasons.
Is misinformation on social media a concert for a president who has lied repeatedly in public hundreds of times? Are only the Lèse-majesté lies a crime?
Maybe those people that didn't appear were out eating families' pets?
This is about keeping the Chinese from building dossiers on millions of today's teenagers, some of whom will become next decade's military officers and TLA operatives[0].
Remember that dog & pony pr0n that you and your buds were laughing at when you were 15? Shame if anybody found out ...
[0] I'd add politicians to that list, but everybody knows they can all be bought anyway, so it hardly matters.
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Talking about forgetting history.
A certain Austrian man courted Ferdinand Porsche to build a 'peoples car' in the 1930's. Do we have a parallel now with a certain orange person and his 'love' of social media barons and tech bros? What could possibly go wrong :-)
https://www.dw.com/en/hitler-and-his-volkswagen-tracing-the-80-year-history-of-the-beetle/a-43942998
The last paragraph from that article:
'Despite the Beetle's global success, Porsche was taken into surprise custody by French military authorities in December 1945, remaining in jail until August 1947. Hitler and Porsche's cooperation, however, was not all that unusual, Pyta said. Authoritarian rulers can lure apolitical actors with the prospect of major projects: "Porsche was not the only one to push aside moral considerations when presented with unlimited opportunism," he said. "Business leaders interested solely in their company's success or in implementing ambitious technical projects often have no qualms in doing deals with the devil."'
"Remember that dog & pony pr0n that you and your buds were laughing at when you were 15?"
God, yeah, that was funny! Hey, if you've still got a copy (you perve!) post a copy so we can all have another laugh.
In other news, times change. The current generation of teenagers will be the middle-aged people doing the judging when this blackmail fodder is unleashed. Mountains of painstakingly acquired posting and browsing history may well turn out to be entirely worthless when you want to use it in anger.
I wasn't talking about me; when I was 15 the best a teen could manage would have been run off on an ASR-33 ... the video terminals that made porn (and thus the so-called "adult" pre-internet BBS industry) wouldn't become generally available for a couple decades yet.
Yes, times change. That huge database you assume will provide security by obscurity is rather easily searched with modern software tools and high speed computing. There are no dark corners to hide in.
1) because it competes with his own shit show (Twatter)
2) It increases Gubbermint spending which is the aim of DOGE(y)
Not a good start to a team dedicated to reducing the size of government.
Don't forget those poor congress critters. They'll need to work 4 days a week (instead of 3) providing [cough][cough] oversight to the new thing.
Then there is 'Trooth central'. That is the Donald's baby... He should give it to Don Jnr to run (into the ground)
by 'following US law' I mean not forced to provide data and support to the chinese government.
In the West you get the occasional scam, insurance companies profiling drivers, medical insurances mining for health data etc., some of these despicable things will likely be outlawed in the coming years once the collective awareness raises above that of a child.
In china you might be questioned by the police, not be able to leave the country anymore, denied a visa to go to china or blackmailed few years down the road. Or arrested when you connect in HongKong, all depends on what you share or like :)
This must be a godsend to MAGA enthusiasts: after all the promises of cutting the slack from goverment spending and slash taxes, the first thing to do is to spend 20 billion dollars on a social network that provides exactly zero value to the nation.
Bringing in popcorn worth the next four years.
They won't have a problem. This is the Orange God at work, he is a god, he is omniscient, he is infallible, so whatever he says is the truth, whatever he does is right. MAGA worship the ground he walks upon, and at the slightest hint of criticism they'll try and deflect with made rantings about Biden, Biden's son, Hilary Clinton etc.
Trump's re-election is a cult of personality not seen since the 1930s.
before he even got out of bed on crowning day. A crypto crime worth billions. This guy is going to commit felony after felony after felony. He will commit crime in his sleep. He will commit crime as he eats, he will commit crime as he sits on his golden frumpy throne. The devil is a walking crime, spurred on and paid for by the middle east and russian allies.
There simply isn't any way to keep up with it all.
America will be signing off and looking for a good rock to try to survive under for a while. Be safe and aware. The world has changed, and not for the better. It is a very slippery slope indeed. A dark hole of sin and confusion. Survival becomes paramount. Friends and family gone and isolated. Fellow men and women eating each other for scraps like dogs. He has surrounded himself with an international crime syndicate. A global mob.
Good luck to you all. May God save us, and the meek inherit the earth. Only death and destruction remains. There is only evil for the foreseeable future.
Don't know why you're downvoted, he's pushing memecoin and the only people who will make money out of it are his mates who have already received them for free before the announcement to the Maga masses. It's more money transfer trom the poor to the rich.
It's THEM. The shadow creatures. The ones who hide. The ones who serve their own interests. The ones who support the destruction of America, freedom, and liberty, in the name of the un-named. The ones who influence, lie, and change narratives. The ones who control the matrix in the name of evil. That is why down votes no longer matter, and trust has been eroded to the dust of the past.
'They are all out for their personal selves.'
Of course they are, everybody is out for their personal selves, it's a property of being human and it's naive to believe otherwise. Yet we suspend this truth and expect something else from our leaders and public servants.
The yardstick is how much you believe the person can act in the interest of all and to what extent, rather than solely for themselves directly or indirectly.
Sadly this belief and acceptance of them all solely acting in their personal interest is why the world ends up with 'leaders' like Trump. Lump them all together like that and we will end up with a world of Trumps _Shudder_.
> 'They are all out for their personal selves.'
Maybe governments need to follow the example of the "Isle of Tega" from the David Eddings books of the Tamuli. Here when elected the poor sods entire wealth is confiscated and invested in the state and only returned when they leave office.
If the country (and hence the Government) does well they make a profit, if it does badly then they loose out big time.
"They are all out for their personal selves."
While I'm as cynical as the next guy, don't make the mistake of saying they are all the same. If you don't distinguish between Hitler, Trump and (eg) Jacinda Adern, you're as likely to vote for one as the other or not vote at all, and that will lead us... well, it will lead us to the events of 20 Jan 2025 in Washington DC.
I don't think Gene Roddenberry had that in mind while extolling & exploring the Human Condition in the virtuous future of Star Trek.
However in the present....well past...
The show's theme written by Alexander Courage, his contract stipulated that, as the composer, he would receive royalties every time the show was aired & the theme played.
And so did the person who wrote the lyrics, who then promptly nixed the use of them, as Roddenberry only wanted a piece of the composing profits, so he wrote the hokey lyrics solely to receive a "co-writer" credit.
Roddenberry received 50 percent of the royalties ... cutting Alexander Courage's share in half (Icon - Presumably resulting in a Warp Core Breach sort of meltdown).
You guys (and gals) on the east side of the pond will need to keep a close eye on us during the next four years. While I hope all goes well, if history and this inchoate extension for tik-tok is any indication of how things will play out -- we will need your help... Since when is the US Government in the business of owning social media companies? Maybe the flabby guy with a bad jump on stage that claims to be "dark maga" wants in...
The majority of Social media companies, X excluded after the Musk buyout, were pwnerd by the Biden administration over the last four years. Or do you not want to admin that ? Who was really pushing the Covid Misinformation? It certainly wasn't Trump ( he did make a bad faux pas with the bleach thing though.).
Step one ... get the oligarchs on side, get them to buy up the private media
Step two ... get the government to take over what private media the oligarchs cannot buy
Step three ... crack down on what is left of any private or independent news outlets so dissent is all but eliminated
Step four ... look forward to elections, which will continue, but will be a pointless farce as propaganda overwhelms everything while the government roots out uncooperative judges and guts the power of any political bodies the opposition controls
Yes. They are planning on cutting Social Security benefits. And Medicare. And Medical. And SNAP (food stamps).
Which means that the very people that put them in power are going to be hit first, and over-all hit hardest.
But that's OK, because they are also going to get rid of the Department of Education, so they will be kept stupid, too. Lovely plan, eh?
And all to give billionaires and corporations even more tax breaks.