back to article Asda decided on a 'no go' for 'mass rollout' of store IT conversion

Asda decided not to go ahead with planned cut-over dates to introduce new systems at some smaller stores earlier this month as part of its technical divorce from Walmart, the previous owner of the UK's third-largest supermarket. The move, initially scheduled for December 7, 8, and 9, was slated for the roll-out of mini-marts …

  1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Bonuses

    Bonuses will no doubt be paid as planned and on time to the owners, directors etc

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Bonuses

      That Asda be the case...

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Bonuses

        That's Asda prince :-)

    2. graemep

      Re: Bonuses

      I doubt it. owners get profits, not bonuses.

      As for directors, this is a closely held, so it might not be as easy as if it was a listed company. If it was still controlled by the Issa brothers I doubt they would reward failure (its their money, after all) but its now controlled by TDR capital who manage other people's money so I do not know. Probably still worse for the directors than being listed with a mix of small shareholders and fund managers vs a private equity fund - it has a lot more at stake in good management as it cannot just sell the shares on the market.

    3. hoola Silver badge

      Re: Bonuses

      Why is this an issue?

      Surely it is the correctly thing to do when managing a rollout that if things are not ready you stop.

      It is nothing to do with bonuses and is actually someone making the correct decision.

      If they have gone ahead and everything fell in a heap you would be saying exactly the same thing.

      To me this sounds like a rare instance of better than average (which is still mostly crap) project management.

      1. SecretSonOfHG

        Re: Bonuses

        Completely agree with your points about how to handle the issue. However, when your project budget and schedule go so off the roof there's the question of whether the same guys taking the bonuses are the ones approving and executing these plans that go 2x on time and 3x the budget.

  2. dippy1

    Who is running the project?

    Clearly they have no idea about retail.

    Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?

    I thought most locked down from mid November.

    1. Giles C Silver badge

      Re: Who is running the project?

      I thought the same - why do a potentially disastrous change during your biggest trading period. You always plan these jobs for quiet periods I.e. middle of January. It is like an Easter egg factory doing similar in February.

    2. tip pc Silver badge
      IT Angle

      Re: Who is running the project?

      that is very true.

      most entities, even government, have a freeze over Christmas even if its just due to staff availability etc.

      the only reason to not freeze is if the penalties out way the risk.

      Its obvious the pressure has been on the Asda project teams to succeed, i suspect that Asda has some contractual obligations with Walmart to at least show some percentage of migration movement that doing this work now is imperative to Asda.

      You'd expect that these stores moving now are low hanging fruit, where problems can be swept under the rug,

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who is running the project?

        "You'd expect that these stores moving now are low hanging fruit, where problems can be swept under the rug,"

        Or these problems could disappear over the "Horizon" hehehehehe and I hope that none of the previous Post Office employers (who were intimately involved in the Sub-Postmasters legal actions) have applied for jobs with ASDA !

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      WTF?

      "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

      Exactly my thought.

      When I've talked to big retailers on IT they were pretty clear.

      Basically "If the upgrade/switch/whatever is not running smoothly by the end of Q3 we go with what we got already, pretty much regardless of the costs because Christmas is way too important to have our core systems going TITSUP on us."

      "I thought most locked down from mid November."

      Depending on the org that's very late in the day.

      Either Walmart are charging them extortionate costs to continue support or someone is in line for huge bonuses if they bring it in this year.

      Time will tell how well this works out. Walmart was based in Arkansas. If it goes badly Asda might find themselves in this sort of situation.

      1. UnknownUnknown

        Re: "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

        Walmart have bigger fish to fry - despite the so called intense competition in the US Supermarket sector, prices are (in my view) very expensive- even for basics. Shoppers not happy - and Aldi is rampant, Lidl still gaining scale.

        Walmart also have $17bn ( inc I guess the sale proceeds from Asda) - sunk (cause ?) in Indian Amazon competitor - Flipkart to realise value from. After trading for 17 years still to make a profit…. and heading the wrong way currently.

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "Indian Amazon competitor - Flipkart to realise value from. "

          Yeah, but India man.

          The world's last remaining large democracy with a large English speaking population.

          The potential is huge. Bezzos based his entire company on Walmart's SOP so they are about the only ones with maybe a shot at setting up viable competition

          And as we all know real competition is the only effective way to bring prices down.

      2. John Sager

        Re: "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

        Well, Tesco have just done so. 2.5 years ago they did a software update that made their bar code scanners a complete pile of crap - several seconds to register a scan, and the same delay for repeat scans of the same item. In some parts of our usual store it took a lot longer because of the WiFi coverage.

        So a couple of weeks ago I went into the store and all the scans are now pretty much instant, just like Sainsbury's have always been.

        Having complained bitterly originally via their CEO mailbox, I thought I would write and congratulate them on having the balls to do a software upgrade just before Christmas! A pity it's taken them 2.5 years to sort it out though.

        1. Like a badger

          Re: "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

          Have they also sorted out the problematic Google Pay acceptance, where often it worked, sometimes it didn't?

          As a result of the Tesco/GPay problems I've taken my lunchtime business to Sainsbury whose tills accept Google Pay without ever a hiccup. One consequence is that I'm actually spending less for a better meal deal.

          1. John Sager

            Re: "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

            Not so far. That is still very hit and miss. Having used Google Pay for some months now, Tesco is the only place where I have a problem

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "Since when do retail make ANY system changes in December?"

            Why use Google Pay (or Apple Pay) at all? Another 3rd party creaming off transaction charges and pushing prices up.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who is running the project?

      Logic and common sense are not allowed in the workplace. Have you never had a job good person? Even the mere suggestion is frowned upon. I once got a disciplinary for suggesting a meeting could have been a single email and that 5 of the 7 people attending didn't need to be there.

      1. UnknownUnknown

        Re: Who is running the project?

        Pfft - APR tagged ‘not a supporter of change’ and are you ‘meeting expectations’ or ‘improvement needed’ ?

      2. Mike007 Silver badge

        Re: Who is running the project?

        To be fair, if you used accurate language to describe the situation then that would be why you got the disciplinary... Some people think that certain words are automatically wrong to use even when used correctly in a context where there is no other way to express the same thing with the same level of emotion.

        Something I have had to explain to a lot of FUCKING IDIOTS over the years... ;)

    5. JamesTGrant Bronze badge

      Re: Who is running the project?

      7 8 9 Dec looks dodgy boss.

      Let’s do it a couple of weeks later.

      Yes, the week before Christmas, please sign here.

      Seems like an originally bad idea was ‘brinkmanshiped’ into the new year.

    6. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Who is running the project?

      The only reason I can think of they'd choose the month of December is because there are some executives who have bonuses tied up to some schedule to either start, complete or hit some completion milestone by a certain date.

      At least they are getting a clean slate IT system with no legacy, I wonder how long it takes before something shiny and new becomes a technological boat anchor it is too difficult to move off of?

      1. UnknownUnknown

        Re: Who is running the project?

        Clean slate, migrated business processes ??

        That worked well at Birmingham CC

        1. JT_3K

          Re: Who is running the project?

          That'll be because the council probably decided ERP was "an IT project, because it's just a piece of software", and that they didn't have to take part in it themselves.

      2. Martin M

        Re: Who is running the project?

        Looks like the S4/HANA bit is already live. So does that class as shiny, or has the boat (anchor) already sailed?

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Who is running the project?

        "The only reason I can think of they'd choose the month of December is because there are some executives who have bonuses tied up to some schedule to either start, complete or hit some completion milestone by a certain date."

        Yes, probably the originally negotiated end of service life of the agreement to use the Walmart backend. IIRC that's already been extended once. I'd imagine each extension is at an even higher price. The problem with deadline is people tend to try to meet them, not beat them :-)

    7. David 164

      Re: Who is running the project?

      Tesco rolled out new till software for customer services at the beginning of this month.

  3. tip pc Silver badge
    Devil

    Will they see IT in a new light?

    Given all the issues they've been beset with, will they now see IT in a new light and provide their teams with the resources and funding to succeed?

    i know we can all bet they won't.

    handing over their IT intellectual property to TCS looks like a spectacular own goal that will lead to continued problems ahead as they will be reliant on 3rd parties managing their stuff instead of their own staff.

    they'd be better off outsourcing to Sainsbury's and earn off the dividends, at least Sainsbury's tech seems to work even if they have outsourced to TCS too.

    1. UnknownUnknown

      Re: Will they see IT in a new light?

      You would have thought they would have at least waiting until the project wraps to realise that (alleged) value to the business … sounds like capability problem and a long term outsource was the end result.

  4. spold Silver badge

    They accidentally thawed the sensible person, who had been stashed away among the frozen peas in aisle 7. Won't happen again (thawing them).

    1. SVD_NL Silver badge

      I was getting prepared to have a laugh at another ERP migration that went completely TITSUP, but instead i found... sensible IT management???

      1. Sensible timelime for a large ERP migration

      2. Staged rollout, starting with smaller stores for less impact (but including some larger stores to get a better representation)

      3. within those stages, they had pilots

      4. they collected feedback, and actually used it to adjust the timeline and fix the product

      5. someone realized you shouldn't break your shit during christmas, especially for stores

      What's next? you're gonna tell me they have a rollback procedure?

      Sure they went over budget, but double the initial budget is not the worst i've seen, and at least it seems like they have an almost-functional product now.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yes they even have a logo for it.

        https://logos.fandom.com/wiki/Asda_Rollback

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          That logo gets less and less cheerful as the years passed; it is dull as ditchwater now. Is that indicative of anything?

          1. UnknownUnknown

            … and who wants Everyday Low Prices (EDLP) - instead of loyalty/membership and fakery around deals (you used to get for free).

            See Aldi/Lidl/Iceland customers for that answer.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            > That logo gets less and less cheerful as the years passed; it is dull as ditchwater now. Is that indicative of anything?

            It indicates that they need to rollback their rollback logo. :-)

        2. Bitbeisser

          Interesting, it seems they "borrowed" that from Walmart, it's all over the Wallmart TV/YouTube advertising here in the US of A...

      2. collinsl Silver badge

        Well by "almost functional" you mean "slightly worse than before" then sure. For example their new de-Walmartized phone app is now just an electron of their website, you still get prompted on every text to "let us know you're coming by checking in when you set off" but there's NO LINK TO CHECK IN ANYWHERE any more except in the text message you may or may not get telling you your order's ready to collect - this often arrives half an hour after your collection slot has ended.

  5. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    On a side note

    Nice to see a picture taken in the UK :)

  6. Ian Johnston Silver badge

    Perhaps Birmingham Council could advise them?

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: £430 million

      every little helps!

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: £430 million

        Isn't that Tescos strapline?

  8. Confucious2
    Facepalm

    No go?

    I’ve seen projects where the management is to scared to say no go even if they know it will be a disaster, so kudos to them for having the balls to do so.

    But a go live in December? As others have said, that should have been enough for a no go flag months ago. It’s not just retail that have freezes in December.

    I hope it works for them and the support staff don’t end up having to do even more overtime over Christmas and the NewYear.

    1. Like a badger

      Re: No go?

      "I hope it works for them and the support staff don’t end up having to do even more overtime over Christmas and the NewYear."

      I don't. I hope it goes shit shaped, and the support staff are offered tons more overtime. The whole dynamic here means there will be precious few salaried employees who are expected to do overtime for free. So TCS (no love for them) will be charging by the second, plus padding and any UK contractors will be thinking "Jingle tills, Jingle tills..."

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: No go?

        You are assuming that people *want* overtime at Christmas. For many, if not most, they really, really don't. Not at any prince, and especially not at Asda Price!

  9. Snowy Silver badge
    Coat

    Why

    Are ERP so hard to roll out?

    1. Like a badger

      Re: Why

      SImple:

      1) Because they are often pretty complicated. Loads of interfaces with other systems, zillions of process requirements for interfaces with meatsacks.

      2) Because there's insufficient IT experience applied to all decisions from concept onwards.

    2. Oneman2Many Bronze badge

      Re: Why

      Because the business doesn't understand their own business and trust IT even less.

      BTW, we have migrated parts of our enterprise, HR, purchasing and few other smaller bits to S/4Hanna and generally speaking it works well and was roughly within budget though about a year late due to delays after user testing.

    3. JT_3K

      Re: Why

      Because time and time again, arrogant dinosaurs at the top think they've bought a bit of software that already "does the thing" and that it can be installed as one installs Adobe Reader. Despite protestations, it's easier not to have the difficult discussions about important people being given actual time and being incentivised to do project work when actually it's much easier to leave them prioritising current business efforts without backfilling them. There's no understanding that an ERP is a blank slate upon which you build your new processes, and that it will have the impact of highlighting shortfalls in your management/processes such as pointing a magnifying glass at an ant on a sunny day. Then when it starts to go sideways, cognitive dissonance makes a great umbrella that "the IT project" isn't working and they turn turtle: refusing to push through the difficult; not having the challenging discussions; shouting and blaming; and not fixing the resourcing issues.

      In actuality, precious few see the criticality of resource, tight deadlines and the "lost productive time" engagement of the *really good* people in every team to make sure their processes are built properly and joined up between teams. Few *lead* and force through, making a big deal of those that won't prioritise it sufficiently. By the time they realise, it's passed the failure point of no return and they ultimately spend more time playing CYA, potentially with some career learnings, more likely off to somewhere else.

      The amount of directorial teams that seem deaf when the CxO tries to drive this from the back are staggering.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For sale - on offer

    One ERP/POS accountancy package.

    Previously used.

    Enquiries to The Post Office, UK

  11. Acrimonius

    Things are always in 10's of millions

    So many millions to just set up shop

  12. xyz Silver badge

    Meanwhile...

    Over at Morrisons, there seems to be an IT kerfuffle.

  13. Mr Dogshit
    Facepalm

    Slow news day?

    Retailer implements change freeze at the busiest time of yeah.

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