Is there no limit on the AMOUNT one "donates" to a politician or party in the US? If not, no WONDER you're so screwed up down there...
Elon Musk tops US political donor list with $270M+ for Team Trump
Elon Musk gave more than $270 million to political groups supporting Donald Trump's 2024 presidential campaign and others on the American right running for office, according to donation figures released by the Federal Election Commission this week. The watchdog's data shows the Tesla oligarch shelled out around $75 million of …
COMMENTS
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Sunday 8th December 2024 04:41 GMT Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch
Rent seekers
IIRC, the substance of that argument was: since it costs money to effectively speak to the electorate, restraining election funding is a restraint on free speech. We can't have that, naturally... and so the rent-seekers didn't so much get their foot in the door as render it permanently open with a flamethrower.
So now everyone who already has a ridiculous amount money uses it to buy the next round of politicians of whatever party brand. Always with one condition: Thou shalt not stop us making money. Be it IT, energy, health care, housing... you name the field, if it's essential to survival or making a living, some billionaire oligarch is there behind the scenes with his hand in your pocket, charging you just to do what you need to survive, and at a rate that increases higher than the cost of production.
Five hundred years ago that was called feudalism.
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Monday 9th December 2024 07:50 GMT Rainer
Re: Rent seekers
Though, the Harris campaign seems to have spent over a billion (and coming up 20m short) - only to achieve nothing.
The money Elon spent has already been more than compensated by the gain in stocks of his ventures.
Even if you subtract the X "situation" - but X was always more a means to an end.
He is aiming for an unmanned Mars-mission in 2026 and for that, he needs free reign with the launches.
Which he will likely get, now that the President-to-be (who owes him biggly) has selected a former SpaceX astronaut for NASA head.
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Monday 9th December 2024 11:51 GMT codejunky
Re: Rent seekers
@Rainer
"Though, the Harris campaign seems to have spent over a billion (and coming up 20m short) - only to achieve nothing."
Trump did troll her well by mentioning he spent much less so had plenty left over to 'help her out' if she needed him to.
Not as good as his latest troll- https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/113618551122258874
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Sunday 8th December 2024 06:46 GMT CowHorseFrog
Musk and Trump are not egotistical maniacs, they are make fools out of all americans that such utter arseholes are somehow popular.
Its hard to disagree with them, after all why would anyhone vote for aresholes who have as their number one policy the enslavement and abuse of people and lowering of human stnadards and dignity because they arae not rich enough.
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Monday 9th December 2024 00:52 GMT CowHorseFrog
You are taking my comment out of context.
Musk and Trump are making a joke out of americans, espeially those that voted for Donald. Musk and Trump have a track record of being arseholes and have been abusing their workers with terrible work conditions, reduced rights and more, and yet they get voted in.
Its not ego, its a fact they are treating Americans with contempt, Americans voted for and asked to be abused by both of them.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 17:01 GMT Tilda Rice
In the same way the mainstream media treating republican voters with contempt? Calling Hispanics racist for not voting Harris. Black men who voted Trump sellouts. Literally calling Trump hitler.
The majority of Americans and probably western world citizens are tired of constant personal attacks and posts exactly like yours. Harris is a liar, Biden's pardoned his son, the Biden's are corrupt with their corruption in Ukraine (you know, the place there is a war in) Clinton's are corrupt. Hilary drew up plans to murder Asange. Calling out one side over the other is childish.
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Wednesday 11th December 2024 01:35 GMT CowHorseFrog
They are facts not made up accusations.
Musk is well known for paying his workers almost if not the lowset wages in the industry. Its also on the public record that him and his companies are being sued for numerous abuses at his companies.
I never mentioned Harris, Biden or Hilary, i have not defended or made any claims about them. Each person is judged on their own merits or accusations thats how the courts work, nothing more or less.
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Friday 20th December 2024 11:18 GMT John Smith 19
"Im Australian, i dont care about American politics as it does not affect me at all,"
Ah, the country that (by population) is the second biggest polluter on the planet.
You're going to find out that you are connected to the US through the US/UK/Aus nuclear submarine deal and Aus is a member of the Five Eyes surveillance group.
Pity really. All that uranium and you only have a single reactor to use it. Your coal industry must bless the stupidity of the Greens annually.
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Monday 9th December 2024 15:23 GMT Jellied Eel
Sure, they hold their voters in utter contempt.
Whereas & the Demorats only hold at least 51% of the voters in utter contempt. Ah, Popper again. I guess the education system really needs to explain how democracy works. There are winners, and losers, and little in the way of participation awards. There are really only two times a politcian cares about voters. When they want your money, and when they want your vote.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 06:16 GMT Khaptain
This is how America works
Just for comparison , on the opposite side Kamala Harris's team spent around 1.5 Billion in "donations". And they lost.. I wonder where all that money actually is now..
Ok we know that El Reg staff hate E. Musk with a vengance, but at the same time he is only 1 person that they have chosen to single out, but there are far, far more very wealthy people behind the scenes all "donating" to their personal causes, on both sides.
Now if only El Reg would go back to being a little less bias and stop behaving like blue haired, septum pierced children, the world would feel like a better place... El Reg is my main source of IT news and it's a shame that it has dropped into this childish name calling culture.. I know it's because of the San Fran office but what happened to the Brits, don't they have their say any more ?
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 08:34 GMT CowHorseFrog
Re: This is how America works
Mohammad Bin Salman pisses hundreds of billions every year on stupid projects like:
- the worlds longest line building
- a new soccer league
- football the world cup in a few years
- F1 races,
- the premiere golf tournament
- 16-20B on the worlds biggest clock in Mecca ( no idea why they need such a big clock but he did it)
- billions on a new snow field, yes in Saudi Arabia
- the octagon some new island shaped like an octagon
and thats just a few items.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 10:06 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: This is how America works
Just for comparison , on the opposite side Kamala Harris's team spent around 1.5 Billion in "donations". And they lost.. I wonder where all that money actually is now..
Safely in the pockets of staff, consultants, advisers, social media & TV companies, private jet charters, tour and regular bus hire to create crowds, venue hire, celebs & entertainers fees etc etc. But I think a combined total of over $2bn spent to try and buy this election. The FEC produces a list of donors & spending, but with PACs there can be dark money making it hard to identify individual donors. An awful lot of money spent though.
I know it's because of the San Fran office but what happened to the Brits, don't they have their say any more ?
I think a few moved to San Fran and shared office space with the Twitter that was, which may have influenced them. Or it's just going Californian. Never go full Californian. The Cali bubble may not be representative of the real world, or reality in general.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 19:39 GMT diodesign
No
"I think a few moved to San Fran and shared office space with the Twitter that was, which may have influenced them. Or it's just going Californian. Never go full Californian. The Cali bubble may not be representative of the real world, or reality in general."
We've never shared office space with Twitter. We did share a floor one time with Imgur, one of the smaller but still decently sized social media sites, so that's about as close as it gets.
Out of the US editorial team (ie, not sales and ops), 3 of us are in California and one recently moved to another state (and one earlier this year left the team to re-enter academia, good for them). I personally like California for lots of reasons - the climate; the mix of sun, sea, and snow; the smart people; the city and forest life - but its politics is not one of them. As an immigrant, I can't and don't even vote.
The rest of the US team lives across the country, and we have people all over the world. Our politics is a mix (eg, we don't all agree on nuclear power, we don't all agree on gun ownership) and that's fine but overall, for the publication, we're just anti-dumb. Sorry if we think your favorite person is bad for everyone.
C.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 21:14 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: No
I'm not sure whether it's best to officially deny the nonsense that Jellied Eel posts or just simply ignore it and not give it the oxygen of publicity, in either case the downvotes reflect what regular readers all know about this handle.
Ah, a fan of Thatcher I see? But another Anonymous attack on a poster that adds little to the..
noun: discussion
the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
"the committee acts as a forum for discussion"
a conversation or debate about a specific topic.
plural noun: discussions
"discussions about environmental improvement"
Or just reaffirm Popper's Paradox of Tolerance. Discussion and the exchange of ideas must not be tolerated, because that way leads to wrongthink. These ideas must not be tolerated because questioning authority, or journalists holding politicians feet to the fire makes it harder to govern, and manage the spread of misinformation.
Case in point, Chris mentioned what Musk and the DOGE might do wrt the USDA. Farmers are very heavily regulated, and that regulation has contributed to farm bankruptcies, rising food costs and even things like obesity. The USDA ignored nutrionist's advice when they created their infamous 'Food Pyramid' and the results are visible on American's waistlines. But no matter, eat what you want and just pay Novo Nordisk $1,000 a month for shots of semaglutamide. If you're a drug dealer, prevention is far less profitable than 'cures'.
Or billionaires looking to capture markets-
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/10/arkeabio-cow-emissions-bill-gates
ArkeaBio, a Boston developer of a vaccine to reduce livestock methane emissions, raised $26.5 million in venture capital funding led by an investment fund founded by Bill Gates.
...The deal: Breakthrough Energy Ventures led the Series A round, and was joined by Grantham Foundation, AgriZeroNZ, Rabo Ventures, Overview Capital and The51 Food & AgTech Fund.
Seems odd that an 'Energy' venture would want to prevent methane rather than capture and use it for, well, energy. Grantham's no suprise given he loves bubbles, methane or otherwise. But vaccinating 2-legged cattle proved extremely lucrative, so why not extend this to 10m+ 4-legged cattle in the US? Or there's the next Panicdemic shaping up. The USDA just ordered this-
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/usda-orders-raw-milk-testing-under-guise-bird-flu-amid-war-small-farms
The latest overreach in the war on raw milk comes as the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) ordered dairy farmers to work with the federal agency to test for bird flu (H5N1).
And by 'work with', what they mean is 'pay'. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence of transmission from cattle to food, but there's again a lot of money to be made. Plus that seems to show there's scope to cut a lot of fat at the USDA. Or there's just one of Musk (and other CEOs) favourites, cracking down on 'working' from home. Civil servants not back at their desks by say, Feb14th and they've voluntarily terminated their employment. Much that could be done to cut overheads in the US.
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Monday 9th December 2024 12:13 GMT codejunky
Re: No
@diodesign
"The rest of the US team lives across the country, and we have people all over the world. Our politics is a mix (eg, we don't all agree on nuclear power, we don't all agree on gun ownership) and that's fine but overall, for the publication, we're just anti-dumb. Sorry if we think your favorite person is bad for everyone."
That is an understandable position against Trump but at the same time how did not one of you notice the mental condition of Biden, the absolute uselessness of Kamala? The toxicity of Walz? Are you saying that for all of you there was this huge blind spot? Maybe you were a little over focused on Trump to notice you wernt so anti dumb and even missing Bidens administration escalating war that is bad for everyone.
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Monday 9th December 2024 12:35 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: No
...even missing Bidens administration escalating war that is bad for everyone.
There's much backslapping probably going on now that Assad's 'regime' has been overthrown. The US has saved $10m on the bounty for al-Jawlani though, because they know where he is now. But slightly awkward given Syria's now under the control of a proscribed terrorist organisation, and the EU is probably going to have to deal with a fresh influx of Syrian refugees. As usual, it seems to be very bad news for the Kurds however.
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Monday 9th December 2024 16:51 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: No
There's much backslapping probably going on now that Assad's 'regime' has been overthrown. The US has saved $10m on the bounty for al-Jawlani though, because they know where he is now. But slightly awkward given Syria's now under the control of a proscribed terrorist organisation
Jellied Eel,
I don't know why you think this is a clever, or even interesting, comment. You spouted it as if it was some argument-winning "own".
But the thing is we already had to talk to the Syrian government, despite them having used chemical weapons on their own citizens - as well as having notorious jails where they regularly tortured and murdered politifcal prisoners in the tens of thousands. So we've replaced one murderous inter-locutor with another who may, or may not be, as murderous. We don't know yet. Similarly we have to talk to Xi Xinping, despite him having created a system of concentration camps to "re-educate" about 1 million Uyghur people at a time. Diplomacy involves talking to people you don't like. Shock!
Also they publicly disavowed Al Qaeda nearly a decade ago. At quite large personal risk. Which may be a lie, though it doesn't seem to be. It's an interesting phenomenon, but many of the groups that have allied themselves with Al Qaeda have come to regret it - often quite rapidly. It's often come to open warfare - because Al Qaeda's ideology tends to rather want lots of civillian deaths and chaos - and so doesn't tend to meet the basic objectives of the people who called them in to help. Hence Bin Laden, and followers getting chucked out of Bosnia (or in some cases just shot), the Anbar Awakening in Iraq (where Sunnis started to realise that they were better cooperating with the US than Al Qaeda) and of course Syria itself. Assad allowed Al Qaeda to form a large presence in the West of the country, in order to make the civil war in Iraq worse - and he then helped create the cadre of experience insurgent fighters that joined the rebellion after mostly-peaceful protests had been met with force by the regime.
ISIS broke from Al Qaeda for not being radical enough (or maybe just because the leadership were too far away) - Al Nusrah affiliated with them to get support in the civil war - and then thought better of it.
I'm amazed by how hopeful people in Syria are being at the moment, given the people now left in charge. Maybe it's just better than the alternative? I really hope things turn out well, I doubt it though.
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Monday 9th December 2024 18:22 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: No
But the thing is we already had to talk to the Syrian government, despite them having used chemical weapons on their own citizens - as well as having notorious jails where they regularly tortured and murdered politifcal prisoners in the tens of thousands.
Oh, it's you again. Much of the 'evidence' came from 'opposition' groups like Rami the Rag Man who-
The New York Times described him as being on the phone all day everyday with contacts in Syria, relying on four individuals inside the country who collate information from more than 230 activists, while cross-checking all information with sources himself
Busy guy. Of course if the NYT is correct, and if Assad's security services was as brutal and effecitive as the Rag Man claimed, then it wouldn't have been difficult to detect someone from the UK spending all day on the phone to Syria, and eliminating his four contacts. Then there were the statments that use of chemical weapons would be a 'red line' in Syria. And guess what! 'chemical weapons' were used. The White Helmets said so, so it must have been true. There were videos of 'barrel bombs' that had landed gently on beds. Kids being dramatically carried into a makeshift field hospital, given a quick squirt of water and making a rapid and miraculous recovery from sarin exposure, without needing any of that newfangled stuff like atropine. Oh, and of course the heroic crisis actors managed to carry the kid to the waiting cameras without being exposed to sarin themselves. And then there was the hexamine claim. Meanwhile, there was evidence of AQ using chlorine in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, along with burning people to death in metal cages.
Whether al-Jolani really has reformed, or whether he's just seen how much money his dress-alike has made out of Ukraine remains to be seen. The US refused to send aid to Syria after their big quake, now perhaps the troughs will open and billions will pour in. Or perhaps the US will just allow Syrians access to their own oilfields now
But I guess you, along with the Bbc also believe this 'news'?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yv75nydy3o
Some 43,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed since Russia's full-scale invasion began, Volodymyr Zelensky has said in a rare admission of the extent of the nation's casualties
Ah, propaganda just ain't what it used to be.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 12:24 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: No
And you keep defending anything that comes from dictators. You really should stop idolising dictators.
I'm not, and don't. We, however keep promoting people we don't like as 'dictators', and then running regime change operations. Those often leave the countries previously run by 'dictators' in a far worse state than they were. Syria wasn't perfect, but it was pretty secular. Women could drive, wear jeans, there were bars. After the civil war started, women lost those rights. It was very much a sectarian conflict, complete with very brutal ethnic cleansing by the radical Islamists head choppers who are now in charge.
And Biden's boasting about his 'success' in giving HTS control of Syria, even if they're a proscribed terrorist organisation, or as Obama once put it, 'moderate terrorists'. And now that those reformed AQ and ISIL are being cheered as 'diversity friendly', the US and Israel have been heavily bombing Syria, with Israel grabbing more land. But one aspect of the Syrian civil war is factions have often collapsed, new warlords have grabbed power and this may continue and Syria may turn into another Libya. This won't be Biden's problem because that will be passed on to Trump to deal with, along with the EU. But on the very slight plus side, the Turkstream pipeline might get extended, and gas prices fall.
But Russia interfering with elections bad, the West interfering with and destroying countries good.. Right?
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 17:08 GMT Tilda Rice
Re: No
Nuland was literally on the ground in Kiev in 2014 handing out water bottles and cookies. (or sandwiches she says)
Reading for the juveniles here:
BBC from 2014: Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
The west literally invaded Iraq. Literally invaded Afghanistan. Then literally lecture others on non-interference. Its pure comedy.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 12:29 GMT Boris the Cockroach
Re: This is how America works
Because you've allowed your political system to be bought. and its only a matter of time before it falls over with the amount of greed on display by a very few individuals(musky is one).
And it wont be long until theres serious rumblings from the people who have nothing, or work 60 hours+ and still have nothing about how much money the people at the top have ( 500 times average wages has been quoted) which is much more than in the gilded and robber barons age of the US.
As for political party comparisions the US choise is like a choice between the tories/right wing parties and fartages reform party/le pen's party over here in europe.
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Monday 9th December 2024 15:02 GMT Charlie Clark
Re: This is how America works
US elections have been a combination of state fair and outright bribery for most of the country's history. The state fair bit is the snake oil salesmen do their bit for the voters. The money spent on advertising, etc. and now lotteries is really only the tip of the iceberg and the ticket to the Lobby for the real bribery: legislation, where billions can be spent on a single bill. As a result, while the Democrats may have lost the election, the most important donors have made sure the right people have got their visting card. The, er, House always wins. Okay, it's the Senate that makes the money, but this is the better quip and people like Mike Johnson do have some impressive PACs with some rather shy donors.
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Monday 9th December 2024 15:35 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: This is how America works
...and people like Mike Johnson do have some impressive PACs with some rather shy donors.
This is true on both sides, and probably shouldn't be. So this lot-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Forward_PAC
The Future Forward PAC was the largest single-candidate Super PAC in the 2024 United States presidential election
Raising over $700m, dwarfing Musk's election spending by a considerable margin. And-
It is notable for its secrecy, and its deeply analytical approach
along with abject failure to show value for money, or ROI.. Well, for the donors anyway. Or there's this mob, currently under investigation-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActBlue
It is focused on mobilizing small-dollar donors and, as of June 2024, has raised $13.7 billion for left-leaning and Democratic candidates and causes since it was established.
because allegedly a lot of their 'small-dollar donors' didn't realise they'd made donations...
ActBlue lobbied against a Republican-backed bill introduced in September 2024 that would require CVV codes for political donations and prohibit contributions via gift cards or prepaid cards.
Can't think why an upright and security conscious org like them would lobby against accepting anonymous donations.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 19:32 GMT diodesign
"blue haired, septum pierced children"
I know you have this image in your head of us, but if you were to say watch our Kettle episodes, you'll see we're the opposite of that. You don't know our personal politics; as we've always said, we're just anti-dumb. Sorry if we think your favorite person is a fool.
Also, only two of us in the editorial team are in SF. The rest of our US journalists (and US sales and ops) are spread out across the country.
But anyway, the point here is that Elon's very publicly benefiting and benefited from the US government, he's now topped the US donor list, our readers have an interest in him, he's in tech, he owns a big social network, he's giving advice on how the US government should be run in exchange for that support for Donald, so we think it merits coverage.
If it was Zuck or Benioff or Schmidt or Ellison or Bezos, or any other big name in tech, topping the donor list, we would report it. It happens to be Elon this time. I don't see the harm in letting people know. We can't list every political donor (we'll try to keep track of the list, I wanted to list more but time was a factor, we'll make more of other donors later).
In fact, Trump's government is pretty much going to be run by billionaires and folks on their way to that level of wealth. So we'll focus on that in future, too.
C.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 20:51 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: "blue haired, septum pierced children"
I know you have this image in your head of us, but if you were to say watch our Kettle episodes, you'll see we're the opposite of that. You don't know our personal politics; as we've always said, we're just anti-dumb. Sorry if we think your favorite person is a fool.
I think the personal politics is obvious. Biden and Harrris were geniuses, Musk is a fool.
We can't list every political donor (we'll try to keep track of the list, I wanted to list more but time was a factor, we'll make more of other donors later).
Other sites have already done some of that work, even if they're not owned by Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, Reid Hoffman etc etc-
https://www.opensecrets.org/2024-presidential-race/kamala-harris/contributors?id=N00036915
With Gates washing his money through the Future Forward PAC. Gates invests biggly into fighting the War on Warmth, and Biden gave $600bn or so under the ironically named 'Inflation Reduction Act' to fight that good fight. But I look forward to a balanced article comparing the two campaigns donors, rather than just focusing California's favorite hate figures.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 12:43 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Biden and Harrris were geniuses
Again, as editor of this place, I can't and don't vote in the US so I'm the neutral observer; I calls it hows I sees it.
I'm still a little confused. So could you expand on your previous comment?
Sorry if we think your favorite person is a fool.
Skip the 'we', but why would you think Musk is my 'favouite' person when I've often been critical of Musk? He's a consumate salesman in the best traditions of P.T.Barnum, but you don't become the 2nd richest man in the world by being a 'fool'. He might be a bit of a twat sometimes, but he seems to have an unerring knack with parting fools from their money. Sadly, that's often taxpayers. But there's been a flood of articles post-Twitter, mostly hating on Musk, so when there's stuff like this-
The donations as well as various sycophantic efforts and public support seemingly afforded Musk greater access to Trump, who later rewarded his new buddy a job the Starlink tycoon has been craving - potentially gutting cutting the size of the government and shaping the very agencies and departments that regulate, and award contracts to, the X owner's corporations.
I struggle to see how this is a 'neutral observer'. Surely 'right sizing' the Federal government, making it more efficient and enforcing the Hatch Act would be a good thing for US taxpayers, and democracy in general?
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Sunday 8th December 2024 13:20 GMT diodesign
Making it more efficient
If Elon was an independent expert in optimizing US government organizations not to the unfair detriment of those relying on said organizations, then that would be awesome.
But he's not. The conflict of interest, as we've alluded to, is weapons grade in strength. Color us super skeptical that the guy who has openly bitched about being regulated by the FAA, FCC, NHTSA, FDA, SEC, etc, is going to be solely thinking in a selfless public-spirited manner about efficiency and democracy.
As you said, he's a bit of a twat, he's a pure capitalist, and foremost a salesman. That's fine on his own turf. It's a free country. But why on Earth would you put that kind of single-minded person in charge of deciding the future of the very checks and balances put in place to stop people like him running roughshod over all of us?
I'm not even being politically biased here. Just think about it logically.
C.
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Monday 9th December 2024 10:32 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Making it more efficient
If Elon was an independent expert in optimizing US government organizations not to the unfair detriment of those relying on said organizations, then that would be awesome.
DOGE isn't just Musk, it's also got Ramaswamy on board and is hiring. It has a stated ambition of cutting Federal spending by $2tn and potentially reducing the number of Federal agencies from 400 to 100. As you say, this could be awesome given 335m Americans, so a potential saving of around $6,000 per American.
But he's not. The conflict of interest, as we've alluded to, is weapons grade in strength. Color us super skeptical that the guy who has openly bitched about being regulated by the FAA, FCC, NHTSA, FDA, SEC, etc, is going to be solely thinking in a selfless public-spirited manner about efficiency and democracy.
Maybe, but it isn't really any different from past political appointments like say, Cheney or Rumsfeld. It's a nice idea that appointing people with actual business experience, rather than politicians, could lead to better government. But to pick a couple of examples. So NHTSA-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_Traffic_Safety_Administration
NHTSA is charged with writing and enforcing Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards as well as regulations for motor vehicle theft resistance and fuel economy, as part of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) system... The agency has asserted preemptive regulatory authority over greenhouse gas emissions, but this has been disputed by such state regulatory agencies as the California Air Resources Board.
It has arguably failed on theft resistance given the number of vehicles stolen via flaws to keyless entry systems etc. There are obvious overlaps wrt GHGs with the EPA, who've also asserted regulatory authority over vehicle GHGs. NHTSA can already achieve GHG reductions via fuel economy, ie the higher the mpg, the less fuel burned per mile, the less GHGs produced. Or the EPA mandated selective catalytic reduction in all diesel engines. This was great news for the producers of DEF like China & Russia, less great for anyone relying on diesel engines given faults prevent operation, or production of ammonia and isocyanic acid, both toxic. Or just supply-chain disruption leading to shortages of DEF, prices increasing and thus transport costs which affect pretty much all sectors of the US economy.
So perhaps a cost-benefit analysis into DEF might make sense. Or there's the continued risk of regulatory capture, ie the general policy is to force ICEs out of the market in favor of electric engines for everything.. Which leads to some interesting situations, like stand-by diesel generators not starting, or taking time to ramp up to full power because the DEF system says 'No', and obviously those can't be replaced by electric motors. But Musk obviously has a conflict of interest, wanting to sell EV cars and trucks. So there's a risk of regulatory capture, but that's always a risk in politics. So for example the UK's largest CO2 emitter is the Drax power station, which burns collosal amounts of trees but is somehow considered 'Green'. It helps of course if Drax had one of their execs sitting on the UK's Climate Change Committee to ensure their subsidies kept flowing.
But an obvious solution to our insatiable demand for electricity in both the US and UK is nuclear, so maybe the Trump government could get building those.
Or there are other fun possibilities, like should the ATF be in charge of alcohol and tobacco, or should those be split between the USDA and IRS? But then there's also the State level stuff, so maybe a State wants to promote craft distilleries, so should States be allowed to set their own duty rates?
As you said, he's a bit of a twat, he's a pure capitalist, and foremost a salesman. That's fine on his own turf. It's a free country. But why on Earth would you put that kind of single-minded person in charge of deciding the future of the very checks and balances put in place to stop people like him running roughshod over all of us?
Having a monomaniac in charge of improving goverment efficiency could be a good thing. But running roughshod over all of us is what politicians do.. Except many are also twats, have no real knowledge outside of politics and thus prone to regulatory capture. Hence why we've ended up with our energy 'policy', the UK having the highest energy cost in Europe, if not the world. And then politicians wondering why inflation and the cost of living is rocketing, businesses are closing, energy and real poverty are increasing etc.
But you're also right about other aspects of Musk. A target of $2tn savings is going to be a collosal task, and Musk has rarely hit a target in the past. Plus there's going to be enormous opposition from US civil servants who obviously don't want to be downsized, or their empires dismantled. But then DOGE also won't have any real power, just an ability to influence Trump.
I'm not even being politically biased here. Just think about it logically.
I am. I'd argue that cutting $2tn off the Federal budget and saving the equivalent of $6,000 for every American is a GoodThing(tm). I also think that that is going to be a near impossible task, especially given the 2026 target and the amount of predjudice already around the subject. People are assuming the worst, even though DOGE hasn't even got started. But there's also little anyone can do. Politicians will make dumb decisions, eg Ed Millibrain's genius plan to spend £22bn trying to dump CO2 into the ground. A pointless and collosally expensive project that will achieve nothing, but the UK electorate can't do anything to stop insane projects like this, only pay for them.
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Monday 9th December 2024 11:49 GMT Fruit and Nutcase
Re: Making it more efficient
It has arguably failed on theft resistance given the number of vehicles stolen via flaws to keyless entry systems etc
May be Musk will make it mandatory for cars for the US market to have variations of these installed - no doubt he's familiar with these from South Africa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(flamethrower)
Also ejector seats - thief gets into driver's seat and upon the vehicle determining the person in the driving seat shouldn't be there, gives them a quick blast from the flamethrower (Musk has prior experience in designing such a device) before activating the ejector seat
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Monday 9th December 2024 12:28 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Making it more efficient
Also ejector seats - thief gets into driver's seat and upon the vehicle determining the person in the driving seat shouldn't be there, gives them a quick blast from the flamethrower (Musk has prior experience in designing such a device) before activating the ejector seat
I approve! However, it might turn out that BMW's determine the person in the driving seat hasn't paid the monthly sub for theft prevention seats and ejects the owner. Pay up, or else. But the possibilities are endless, unfortunately also for regulatory capture. So maybe Telsa's are less prone to thefts, and those principles could be applied to all vehicles. Or all new cars in US & EU are now fitted with 'black box' trackers ready to implement road charging. Perhaps that could be extended to doing something useful, like immobilising stolen vehicles. Possibly a chance for Musk to make money via Starlink though, and OnStar might object.
Or thieves can break into vehicles in seconds using a variation on the spark plug trick, so maybe tougher glass could be mandated. Which could also save US motorists millions from having to replace windshields due in part to the US's crumbling road infrastructure. And then with car thieves safely incarcerated in stolen vehicles, the NHTSA could borrow from Death Race, and thieves could make money for the NHTSA via PPV and save the DoJ money on prison costs. So there's some potential quick wins from a benevolent dictatorship, and some enterainment possibilities if they're not so benevolent.
Or there are things like mandating a right to repair, or reforming/ending EaaS* to stop people being milked.
*Extortion as a Service. That hardware or software you thought you 'owned'? Now pay monthly if you want to keep using it..
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 08:37 GMT CowHorseFrog
Re: Making it more efficient
There will be no saving in reducing the agencies.
If anything there will be more, because they will spend crazy amounts of stupid stunts like changing names and logos and stationary and all sorts of other stupid rebranding efforts.
Nothing will change if anything the budget will be MORE.
We have seen the same all over the world, new government comes in and "saves" money by changing the logo and colour stripes of the trains and hires twice as many managers and bullshitter positions.
Happens every single election in NSW...
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Monday 9th December 2024 10:38 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Biden and Harrris were geniuses
hilarious from a musk dick rider.
you deep throating trump and musk everyday, tells us everything we need to know!
Uhuh. Another Anonymous Coward projecting their own subconscious desires. Perhaps this is why you're too embarrassed to put a name to your fantasies? There's nothing to be ashamed of.. is there?
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Sunday 8th December 2024 12:49 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: I can't and don't vote in the US
I guess that you are on the list (somewhere near the bottom I hope) for Deportation. As long as Melania and Musk go first.
Several of my former work colleagues who are in the USA have received 'call up' notices for deportation. They work in 'red' states. Yes, they are fake but one has decided to sell up and get out along with his US born wife. He's from Perth, Australia and from his last email, he's going back there.
As soon as Trump starts the programme in earnest, I think that there will be an exodus of workers including more than a few CEO's. MAGA? All it will need is for one top company to move itself out of the USA and watch the headless chickens start running around.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 11:02 GMT werdsmith
Re: "blue haired, septum pierced children"
Things is Diodesign, lately I have found, by talking to colleagues, many of us are only here for the comedy in the comments and pay scant regard to most of the copy in the article itself.
It just isn't what it was when I started reading The Register many years ago.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 12:24 GMT diodesign
Just here for the comments
Sure, if you find value in the comments rather than the articles, then you're still enjoying the site and we're all winning. We can't please all the people all the time.
Our readership is up year on year again so I'm happy that we're net bringing more people to El Reg's tech journalism. Our biggest stories this year weren't even about Musk or election politics.
C.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 17:18 GMT Tilda Rice
Re: "blue haired, septum pierced children"
Nobody gives two hoots about you and your peer group of lefties opinions either. But if you post sh*te, expect people who don't agree with your view to counter it. Thats what forums are for aren't they?
Or do you wanna hang in a vacuum of like minded blue haired people listening to your own hate in a bubble? Perhaps you do. Jellied it right though, the extremism does tend to gravitate around people who see themselves as victim minority, race, gender, sexual preference. Its a state of mind fighting a non existent enemy but translates to a focus on people who aren't what the left claim them to be.
Look at Trump and his mate Hershel Walker - you know, a black guy. But the left will call Trump with a straight face Hitler.
Pathetic:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/herschel-walker-trump-jr-rally-b2641041.html
But carry on. Its this juvenile view that people are tired of.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 20:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "blue haired, septum pierced children"
Ah the good ole' days of home mad Boston cream pie iPhoneographers, when Steve Jobs could still screw your wife into a ménage a trois ... for a swell $944! Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be anymore ...
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Saturday 7th December 2024 23:10 GMT Philo T Farnsworth
Re: This is how America works
I wonder where all that money actually is now..
The answer to that is that it's fattening the bottom lines of the television and cable networks and the wallets of the various "consultants" and other remoras that infest the American political system.
Back in a previous life, the 1970s, to be exact, I worked in the US broadcast industry and the rules were such that political advertising had to be given the absolute lowest rate on the station's "rate card."
As a result, broadcasters were loath to accept political ads, as they drove more lucrative ads off the air, decreasing profits. One station at which I worked did not accept political ads at all, which was legal since it treated all parties equally.
I'm not sure when the rules changed (probably with the demise of the FCC's Fairness Doctrine, which was an attempt to assure equal access to the airwaves by all sides of a controversy) but at some point after the time at which I decided to find honest work, the law changed and stations could charge off the standard rate card and political advertising became a "cash cow," plumping up the bottom lines of broadcasters every two years and becoming a virtual money tsunami in years divisible by four.
The curious thing is that I've never been convinced that political ads do a darned thing to convince voters of anything except that politics is annoying as all heck.
A politically astute and more or less connected acquaintence of mine suggests that the only reason that we're inundated with political advertising is that the consultants, of course, get a commission for every campaign dollar spent and they create an atmosphere of FOMO in the candidates conducive to spending vast amounts of cash on ads.
It's the best system of government money can buy.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 09:49 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: This is how America works
A politically astute and more or less connected acquaintence of mine suggests that the only reason that we're inundated with political advertising is that the consultants, of course, get a commission for every campaign dollar spent and they create an atmosphere of FOMO in the candidates conducive to spending vast amounts of cash on ads.
If this is true, it may not be money well spent-
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/end-fake-news-msnbc-hits-new-low-ratings
During the week of Nov. 6, MSNBC averaged just 38,000 viewers among adults 25-54, its lowest-rated non-holiday weekday since July 19, 2004... Several shows lost over 50% of their 25-54 audience. Among those shows are The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle, All In with Chris Hayes, Chris Jansing Reports, Inside with Jen Psaki, The Rachel Maddow Show and Joy Reid’s ReidOut.
Along with news that Maddox's had a pay cut from $30m to only $25m. Which is part of the general malaise affecting traditional TV, with ratings generally falling off a cliff. MSNBC's ad sales would probably get a nice commission, ad buyers don't seem to be getting much reach or impact. Especially as MSNBC's viewers would most likely have already decided which party to vote for. Which is a problem for advertisers in general, ie that important 25-54 demographic just aren't watching much TV any more, so how to reach those eyeballs. Amusingly one answer might be TikTok, where political ads on that somehow managed to swing Romania's election to such a degree that they just annulled their election results.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 19:37 GMT Dan 55
Re: This is how America works
If we are restricting ourselves to the tech sphere (which El Reg covers), Musk was by far the biggest donor:
Revealed: the tech bosses who poured $394.1m into US election - and how they compared to Elon Musk
No need to read the copy, there's a graphic half-way down the page.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 11:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
"xAI scores another $6B"
As surprising as this may sound but xAI is a real dark horse in this game of charades. They seem to be avoiding all the pitfalls that OpenAI has ummm.. fallen into. Namely, not corrupting the A
I with billions of lines of hard coding.
This isnt an endorsement. Now that Llama has gone down hill and Zuck's PR team have told him to dress like Vanilla Ice, xAI is, with Claude, AT THE MOMENT, pretty clean. Of course that will change.
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Monday 9th December 2024 12:38 GMT codejunky
Re: American Democracy
@CowHorseFrog
"Lets hope that Trump cancels all them holidays and weekends so all flag waving americans can work until they die 365d a year"
Reading the articles and comments it does seem that anti-Trumpers really do just hope Trump will do x, y and z horrible thoughts they fantasize about. Those who got excited at the idea of the Handmaids Tale (never seen it but I think I get the gist) seem a weird bunch and the supposed 4B followers are being trolled that they self solved one of the political arguments. It is all very odd and amusing from the other side of the pond.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 00:59 GMT Kevin McMurtrie
Puppet strings
Since Twitter I can only assume that companies are loaning money to Elon Musk so that he becomes their indebted puppet. He's way beyond his expiration date when it comes to innovating on products. There's no way he's going to be capable of repaying anything. He couldn't even use an existing EV car company to make a profitable EV truck.
It's looking like the whole US government for next few years is going to be wealthy men with a lot of money and billions of mostly untraceable debt. All those "deep state" conspiracy theorists need to have an awakening.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 03:40 GMT HuBo
Re: Puppet strings
Yeah, I don't hold much hope for "deep state conspiracy theorists" (DSCTs) going through a spontaneous "awakening" for some reasons. They seem to be flying perty high on that special smokescreen and severely addicted to consumption of the latest escalation in scandalous gossip nonsense ... the more outrageously disconnected from any remotely feasible reality, the better, for the dehydrated brains of these social media virtual pill popping dopes!
Pizzagate's got great mileage with those lunatic dimwits, including Musk, and the January 6th loser clods are beyond redeemable to the human species in my book, without serious detox.
There needs to be a charitable AA-style organization for the DSCTs IMHO. With court-mandated attendance for these bloodshot-eyed blurry-visioned boneheads, through all 12 or 24 steps (whatever it takes!). Either that, or strait f*ck*ng jackets!
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Sunday 8th December 2024 10:32 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: Puppet strings
Pizzagate's got great mileage with those lunatic dimwits, including Musk, and the January 6th loser clods are beyond redeemable to the human species in my book, without serious detox.
Indeed. There are still plenty of lefties losing it after the election results, and still going through the denial phase of their grief. Lunatic dimwits are still convinced that Jan 6th was a 'violent insurrection', even though the political prisoners weren't actually charged with insurrection. Meanwhile, over in Georgia, there is an actual violent insurrection with their parliament building being attacked by an angry mob-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj49xg5en09o
The protesters, spurred on by a figurehead pro-Western president and four opposition groups, say the government is illegitimate; the opposition won’t enter parliament because of the “falsified elections”.
Along with being spurred on by the EU, and the NGOs that objected to Georgia passing a version of the US FARA laws that would require foreign lobbyists to register and report their finances. But that one is shaping up to be a repeat of the Maidan regime change operation.
And there are people who think Musk is a 'lunatic dimwit', or 'fool'. Objectively, this is untrue. I suggest it unlikely that you get to be the world's 2nd richest man by being a lunatic, dimwit or fool. But that's another example of lefties losing it. Musk went from being a darling of the left when he was saving the planet with EVs, batteries and solar to becoming a hate figure when he bought Twitter, and broke down the walls of their echo chamber.
And then of course there was the election. Dems outspent the Republicans by around $6-700m and still lost, despite having an incumbent advantage. So the lefties, in denial, thrash around and look for someone to blame, and of course blame Musk.. The lunatic, dimwit fool who somehow managed to beat off the billionaire Democrat donors and win an election. Who are the greater fools, the ones who backed the winner, or the losers?
But this is also where lefties lack objectivity. On the one hand, there's the 'fool', Musk, who built, or helped build a bunch of business and became the 2nd richest man in the world. On the other, there was Hunter Biden, who collected millions from Chinese, Ukranian, Russian, Romanian businesses and spent most of it on hookers & blow. Even trying to expense those hookers, and forgetting to pay his taxes. This, of course was the smartest man Joe knew. That would rather suggest Biden was the greater fool, and not exactly a great judge of character. But those 'ordinary Americans' that the DNC's elite seem to hate saw through the propaganda, and voted for Trump instead. How outrageous!
There needs to be a charitable AA-style organization for the DSCTs IMHO. With court-mandated attendance for these bloodshot-eyed blurry-visioned boneheads, through all 12 or 24 steps (whatever it takes!). Either that, or strait f*ck*ng jackets!
Uhhuh.. So there are actually a few templates for this. Heinrich Himmler did this in Germany, prior to WW2 by locking up political opponents 'for their own safety'. Then Pol Pot did much the same, as did Stalin, Mao. Or more recently, Ukraine banned political parties, media etc. Or modern Germany, who keep talking about banning AfD because they're gaining popularity. And then of course there's France, who's government just collapsed. Again. France has a growing debt problem, possibly larger than Greece when their economy collapsed. Macron's solution? Spend more money!
But strange the way the left seems to be the greatest threat to democracy, or just grossly incompetent.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 12:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Puppet strings
Let your fingers do the walking, to a recovery resource ... plenty of options ... we've all been there ...
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Sunday 8th December 2024 17:28 GMT Jason Bloomberg
Re: Puppet strings
Lunatic dimwits are still convinced that Jan 6th was a 'violent insurrection'
Having watched it unfold live on TV, witnessing the violence as the mob battled to gain access, sought to string up Vice President Mike Pence, overturn the election results ... I'm not convinced seeing it as 'violent insurrection' makes anyone a "lunatic dimwit".
And I don't give a fuck as to what these 'far right domestic terrorists' were charged with. That's merely procedural; it doesn't define what they were. That's whitewashing with sophistry.
If they hadn't done what they did; I might agree with you. But they did do it. Millions watched them do it.
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Monday 9th December 2024 08:42 GMT John Smith 19
"far right domestic terrorists"
That is exactly what they were.
Literally no different to the Ahole who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City except for the punishment.
Especially of the real ring leader.
Top tip for coups. If you want a successful coup, have an unsuccessful coup and fail to punish the ring leader.
American's have been very proud of their democracy but It's taken the behaviour of one staggeringly bad "human"* being to show how stunningly weak they are.
*I don't count anyone who is incapable of empathy as fully human. That alone doesn't make you a bad person. Acting like an Ahole does that. Both the FOCF and Musk qualify as bad people.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 12:48 GMT John Smith 19
I'm still curious...
After Harris picked up $25m in one night and the FOCF claimed $50m in one night did he really get that? Sure with the number of big ticket donors he could have gotten eventually it but OTOH we know that the FOCF lies most of the time.
Just a thought.
I've been a member for some time and I continue to find the articles fascinating. I'm not that big a fan of the more "structured" style though, as I prefer to discover little gems.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 16:13 GMT Grunchy
The Fundamental Problem
The “test” of whether your work role is a supervisor or not is if you are able to impose any kind of discipline or punishment upon a subordinate.
So the Americans voters are proud that they are the “boss” of the government, but of course that’s not true: there is absolutely zero recourse against any politician, except to vote support for some alternative.
And the nature of democracy is to divide into two main opposing groups, left vs right, which increasingly become dominated by extremist fringe elements pushing radical agendas.
Meanwhile, almost all of the voting public are merely consumers just trying to make the best choice out of a radicalized extremist selection.
Hey, did you know there’s another form of democracy? One that forms the backbone of Robert’s rules of order?
Yes it’s known as “plebiscite” in which voters are provided fully symmetric voting options: support, opposition, or abstain from the vote. The full numeric range: +1, -1, or 0.
Hey did you ever realize that, when you go to cast a vote in general election, there’s one of those options missing? Like, you can vote support or you can abstain, so you get the +1 and 0 options. What happened to the -1 option?
I wonder what would become of rich and famous candidates if all of a sudden voters were equally capable of voting -1 as they are of voting +1, I wonder if being rich and famous might become equally a political liability as it is a political advantage.
Maybe unqualified and discredited candidates might face a bit more headwind in that circumstance. You know, if “no such thing as bad publicity” becomes less of a truism, somehow.
Hey, what if voters were able to reject ALL the unqualified fringe extremist candidates, and force a new election, and allow some better-qualified candidates to run in place of the rejected ones?
What if voters were provided the power to discipline or to punish political candidates, for once? You know, as if voters were “actually” in charge of the government, as like a supervisory arrangement, in which government acts for the benefit of the voters for once in history.
I call this radical fringe extremist idea “r/PlebisciteBallot” it’s on Reddit, I even described it one time on YouTube, but I can’t seem to get any traction.
Hey, do you have an issue with arrogant unqualified discredited politicians, and can’t think of anything to do to solve it?
I have the humble suggestion that maybe one time we might trying this fully-symmetric version of democracy that they enjoy in parliament and other places of power.
Who knows, maybe something worthwhile?!
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Friday 20th December 2024 11:39 GMT John Smith 19
Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
Demands govt shutdown.
Well said, Sire!.
Like a man with a deep and wide knowledge of exactly how the US Govt functions.
In his 70+ posts on the subject before VP Trump piped up.
I really do think it's time we all acknowledged who's really charge of this relationship and give them the title they actually deserve.
President Musk is clearly that man.
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Friday 20th December 2024 12:32 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@John Smith 19
"Demands govt shutdown."
Does he? Are you talking about the 1500 page bill to keep funding government which has little to do with funding government? I can see why Musk would be against it due to his appointment to cut government wasteful spending, and Trump against it for trying to put congress above the law especially for those who misbehaved badly (such as the J6 committee).
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Monday 23rd December 2024 09:37 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@John Smith 19
And now a follow up, it seems the DOGE unit run by Musk has already scored a win and Trump isnt even president yet! The reg had an article about DOGE probably not having any real power, this makes an impressive proof that it does.
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Monday 23rd December 2024 13:17 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@AC
"What's the win?"
A 1500 page bill where 15 relate to the CR funding of government and a lot of pork and unrelated regulations, some to protect the guilty from investigation, The win- 118 pages CR bill removing a lot of pork and unrelated regulations.
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Monday 23rd December 2024 15:04 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@AC
"So a victory against the previous (checks notes) Republican bills. That'll show 'em!"
What is DOGE for? Cutting government waste. 1500 pages of pork cut to 118 pages which is why he is there. So a win for DOGE. It doesnt matter if it was bi-partisan bill it was full of pork and the waste has been cut. And hopefully it will show em
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Monday 23rd December 2024 15:56 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@AC
"You keep saying "DOGE" as if Elon action something."
Are you saying it wasnt Musk who caused the initial 1500 page bill to be rejected? That is an interesting position to take.
I think even John Smith 19 will agree with me on this one.
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Tuesday 24th December 2024 09:20 GMT codejunky
Re: Finally *President* Musk steps out of the shadows
@AC
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/dec/19/elon-musk-trump-government-shutdown
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/19/media/elon-musk-political-spending-bill-shutdown/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/musk-trump-caused-congress-nightmare-christmas-rcna184836
That was purely from searching google with "musk CR bill". If you dont think DOGE/Musk did this then have a good day, seems this conversation isnt ment for you. It seems you should be directing your comments earlier in this conversation to-
https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2024/12/07/elon_election_spending/#c_4984999
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