In Soviet Russia phone owns you!
Badass Russian techie outsmarts FSB, flees Putinland all while being tracked with spyware
A Russian programmer defied the Federal Security Service (FSB) by publicizing the fact his phone was infected with spyware after being confiscated by authorities. Kirill Parubets was detained in Russia for 15 days after being accused of sending money to Ukraine, during which time the man was beaten and subjected to aggressive …
COMMENTS
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Saturday 7th December 2024 02:48 GMT DS999
"severe risk of compromise"
You don't need to be a state actor to install spyware on an Android phone you have physical possession of and the password to. But that would also render it more easy for him to hack his own phone to remove said spyware (if he hadn't already fled the country and could treat the phone as a museum piece of that time)
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Friday 6th December 2024 13:05 GMT Pascal Monett
"Always keep a second passport"
I would venture that, in every country that delivers passports, having a second one is against the law.
Of course, in democratic, civilized countries, you most likely don't need one unless you are a foreign agent (aka spy) or a hardened criminal. In Russia, however, I fully understand that perfectly innocent citizens might need one other magic want to ensure the safety that the Kremlin does not.
Now, I'm glad that this guy got out with his wife - very happy for both of them. It's good that he was techno-proficient. The ham-fisted way his phone was compromised speaks volumes about how poor the FSB is in true technical ability. Gosh, I guess Tom Clancy was wrong about a few things.
But saying that you should no longer trust your phone if it has been confiscated by a tyrannical regime is like saying brush your teeth before going to bed.
Duh, man. That thing is burned. Throw that shit away and get another one.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 15:46 GMT Bill Gray
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I think I'd leave it in a taxi or bus or train, suitably placed so it wouldn't be found too soon. You want something that makes it look as if you're still moving around the way a human would, which doesn't really resemble the way in which a stray dog moves.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 10:50 GMT Roland6
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
Given the report, getting the phone into a safe sandboxed environment was tricky: apartment most probably compromised, phone reporting its location, so can assume abnormal behaviour being monitored, hence a visit to a know First Department location would have (or should have) tripped warning bells…
I presume First Department will have handled the “life as usual” usage to provide some cover whilst Kirill and his family left Russia. What is not clear is whether Citizen Lab now possess he device (ie. It was also off-net transported out of Russia) or if all of its analysis was done remotely.
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Friday 6th December 2024 13:27 GMT Art Slartibartfast
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
In the Netherlands it is possible to get a second passport for business use with twice the regular number of pages. Often for obtaining visa the passport has to be given to an embassy for several days and this prevents you from traveling during that time. The second passport allows you to travel anyway. Also useful if you need to travel to conflicting countries.
Apart from that, many countries allow dual citizenship, and some countries, such as Morocco, make it just about impossible to get rid of Moroccan nationality. Which means as a Moroccan you can naturalize to a new nationality but not denounce your original citizenship. And the you have two passports.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 20:25 GMT Pomgolian
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
These days I have both a UK and an NZ passport, quite legally. Using the NZ one is preferable when traveling through places such as Dubai. We've noticed that UK passport holders seem to get extra security checks but they couldn't give a rat's about New Zealand. Of course when we arrive at Gatwick the UK passport comes out and it's no questions asked.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 10:51 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
My friend got into North Korea on his Irish passport. Almost all the people on his tour group who tried to get in on their British ones failed - as did all the US passport holders.
I wonder if the Dubai thing is because Mossad carriied out an assassination there using forged British passports a few years ago? If so, it's definitedly a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, as if they want to do it again, they'll forge some different ones instead.
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Wednesday 11th December 2024 12:21 GMT CrazyOldCatMan
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
In the Netherlands it is possible to get a second passport for business use with twice the regular number of pages
After my Dad did a business trip to Israel many years ago he was allowed a second passport in order to visit Muslim countries that would routinely deny access to anyone with an Israeli visa stamp in their passports.
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Friday 6th December 2024 13:57 GMT Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I would venture that, in every country that delivers passports, having a second one is against the law.
Not at all. It's quite valid to have an extra passport, and I know some people who do. Visa applications can require you to send in your passport as part of your application, so people who travel on visas a lot will have spare passport(s) so that they can always have one to travel with when other passports are away with visa applications.
A friend of mine has used this to his advantage by carrying both his passports on a trip to the other side of the pond - he used one for getting in and out of Cuba and the other one for subsequent entry to the USA...much easier than showing up at USA immigration with a Cuban stamp in the passport. Similar use cases exists for travelling between some middle-eastern countries.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 10:54 GMT I ain't Spartacus
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I know some missionaries (bible translation) who used to have 2 British passports. For getting in and out of Sudan - who were very cautious about what other countries you've been to. Also very useful if you want to go to Israel and many other countries in the Arab world who won't let you in if you've got an Israeli entry stamp on your passport. The same is also obviously useful for the USA and Cuba.
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Friday 6th December 2024 14:12 GMT Boothy
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
Quote 'I would venture that, in every country that delivers passports, having a second one is against the law.'
Can't comment on other countries, but certainly in the UK you can have more than one British passport, these are known as 'additional passports' and you have to provide a valid reason for wanting one.
Valid reasons include things like being a frequent business traveller, if you need visas, as often you need to send your passport to a embassy or consulate to get the visa, and this can take time, several weeks, meaning no passport for that time, and if you travel every week or two, or even just monthly, this can be impossible without a second passport.
Another reason is incompatible countries, having stamps for some countries can make it difficult to get into others. A friend of mine years ago was a language teacher, and did volunteer charity work overseas, sometimes to countries that were not all that friendly with each other, or the West in general. The charity suggested getting a second passport, and to use his original one for the West and West friendly nations, and the second one for some of the less friendly ones. This wasn't just a case of getting into the other countries easier (as it was obvious where he'd come from of course), but more about getting back into places in the West, such as the USA, without having a passport full of visas and stamps from places like Libya etc.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 10:16 GMT Jellied Eel
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
Another reason is incompatible countries, having stamps for some countries can make it difficult to get into others. A friend of mine years ago was a language teacher, and did volunteer charity work overseas, sometimes to countries that were not all that friendly with each other, or the West in general.
Yep. I had two British passports for doing work in the Middle East and Israel. So some countries would deny entry if you have an Israeli visa or entry stamp. I'm also entitled to an Irish passport, and for the rich & shameless, I think it's still possible to buy Maltese ones and claim multiple citizenship.. But I think Russia doesn't permit dual nationalities, or that might only apply to some office holders.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 13:12 GMT Version 1.0
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
So Jellied Eel, you would remember the original joke, "Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis." - Brendan Behan (icon).
That was close to the truth when he said it originally, but these days it is a common world in so many nations.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 22:32 GMT chivo243
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I'm pretty sure Pascal meant one country won't issue two passports to the same person, as many people have multiple nationalities and passports from each, however it is true about the NL passports for busyness.
I once met a trust-fund kid while I was traveling\vacationing in Europe. One afternoon while having the odd pint he said, when he gets back to the US, he will lose his passport. English is wonderful! I thought the Gov't was going to take his passport. He said naw, I'm going to 'lose' it, so I can get a new one. I've been to country X and entering country Y with the stamp from X would be dicey... I plan to visit country Y soon.
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Monday 9th December 2024 08:53 GMT Test Man
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
Someone's already commented but some countries DO allow multiple passports to the same person. This is separate from having multiple citizenship that qualifies you for multiple passports from multiple countries. In other words, a one-to-many relationship.
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Friday 6th December 2024 16:33 GMT phuzz
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
My brother has two UK passports, because he has to travel a lot for work, so if he needs to get a visa for (eg) the US, he can still travel while his original passport is having the visa installed.
I got the impression that it's a fairly normal service, just not one that's widely advertised.
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Saturday 7th December 2024 02:51 GMT DS999
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
As far as I know that's not allowed in the US. You are apparently supposed to plan your travel to account for the period where you have to mail in your old password to renew it and get a new one issued. You can pay more to have it expedited or perhaps you can sidestep that if you visit a major city that has a full passport office, or countries that have a well equipped consulate. I don't travel enough that it is a problem to find a time when I might be without a passport for a month in the non-expedited "normal" renewal service times.
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Monday 9th December 2024 10:17 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I didn't know but Google is my friend and the top result says "you can hold up to two U.S. passports simultaneously. Second passports contain all the same information as your first (except for the number, which will be different). They're also only good for four years instead of the usual 10."
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Saturday 7th December 2024 11:31 GMT james 68
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
@Pascal Monett
"I would venture that, in every country that delivers passports, having a second one is against the law.
Of course, in democratic, civilized countries, you most likely don't need one unless you are a foreign agent (aka spy) or a hardened criminal."
That's a load of old bollocks.
I have both a UK passport and an Irish passport, possession of both is perfectly legal (even in Japan where I currently live, where Japanese citizens cannot possess more than one passport) and their possession by myself doesn't make me a spy nor a hardened criminal. Possession of both simply offers me more options when traveling, for example I can use the Irish passport to quickly pass both myself and my Japanese family through customs in Europe and the UK passport for the same in any commonwealth countries.
Your statement is either profoundly ignorant based solely upon bad 60's Hollywood movies or pathetically poor trolling.
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Sunday 8th December 2024 13:35 GMT martinusher
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
I used to travel with my UK passport as well as my US one back in the days when a UK passport was an EU one. It made travel in Europe a lot more convenient. However, one technicality is that its a very good idea to use the same passport when entering and exiting a country so I'd travel to and from the UK on my US passport but from the UK to Europe on my UK one. (Of course, these days thanks to Brexit......Oh well........)
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 14:32 GMT Jason Hindle
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
Yes, the UK government were pretty stringent and required a letter from my employer. My reasons were:
- Lots of business in the Middle East (and possibly Israel also).
- Occasional need for a manager* to apply for a Visa on my behalf when I was already in another country.
- Later, business in Uganda and DRC (who don't get on).
Back in the day, it was nice to have the side benefit of turning up somewhere like the US with a passport with zero dodgy stamps.
At the next renewal, I will surrender my second passport (I don't need it anymore).
* I trusted one manager to keep the concurrent passport in his safe.
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Tuesday 10th December 2024 02:40 GMT Grinning Bandicoot
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
If he had not blown that his fone was a walking wiretap, think of the fun that could be had.. Faked conversations implicating loyal Putinite in CAPITALIST, WARMONGING,PRO UKRAINE scheme or better yet one involving China's revanchist theories of the lands ceded by unjust treaties. Aigun and Beijing treaties will be covered under a map with 8.9 (marked down from 9 for special arms sale) dash line.
Of course for the naif that thinks a fone that having left your control is secure, this must be devastating news to the naif.
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Friday 13th December 2024 08:56 GMT tip pc
Re: "Always keep a second passport"
UK allows you to have 2 uk passports
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/additional-passports/additional-passports-accessible
useful if you need to travel to territories that don't like each other
used to be that going to Greece & Turkey would cause issues if the passport control saw the other nations stamps
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Sunday 8th December 2024 02:00 GMT HuBo
Re: Russian windows
... and Russian androids too ("an anthropomorphic robotic platform [controlled] with the aid of a backup costume and sensitized manipulators")!
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Monday 9th December 2024 07:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
I don't think this is unique to Russia. It sounds pretty incompetent to monitor an IT person this way, especially one interested in security. I think had a NATO country (or China or Israel) done this he would've had no obvious tell-tale signs without forensic examination. Probably a local security bureau without much expertise or was it meant to be found? A couple of decades ago I would've thought the rough behaviour unique to Russia but it seems our police are becoming more brutal in their black paramilitary gear. Not a good look for a rules based "democracy". An effect of globalism in my opinion - if you had a decent society it gets pulled down to the lowest common denominator.
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Monday 9th December 2024 08:42 GMT Boy Quiet
Will phone compromise become obsolete?
How long before this becomes irrelevant. Add an AI to your phone and instruct it to randomise you. It will turn off your cell and Wi-Fi you with a vpn to another location, logging you onto Wi-Fi there etc. fake images of where you are create multiple random conversations etc. overwhelming any surveillance with ‘chaff’.
Is there not also a "mesh’ system where phones talk Wi-Fi to Wi-Fi or am I in another ‘quantum’ universe ;-)
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Monday 9th December 2024 10:26 GMT John Jennings
There is soooooo much that smells bad here.
1 - russian citizens cannot have a second passport - only a few countries permit it. So he was certainly a criminal and suspicious.
2 - he was doing money transfers to/from a hostile country - Unspecified 'charities'? I think not.
3 - even in western countries if a phone is given up, along with a password - you can expect the phone compromised - no story there.
4 - not much point in 'beating up' an informant during RECRUITMENT when there are plenty of ethnic russians who would volunteer to be one. When an informant has worked for you for a while you can apply pressure (because you could threaten to leak the fact).
Sounds like this dude was actually either 1 - a ukrainian asset the russians tried to turn. 2 A man who didnt want to be conscripted in ukraine, tried to run and felt he needed a 'good story' as to why he didnt stay. 3 - a complete walter mittey.
Dealers choice- but this story is clickey-baitey propaganda from the outset