back to article Facing sale or ban, TikTok tossed under national security bus by appeals court

A US federal appeals court has rejected a challenge to the law that prevents popular apps that collect data on Americans from being controlled by a foreign adversary. The decision puts the ongoing operation of social media network TikTok, a subsidiary of China-based ByteDance, at risk. Unless the ruling is reversed on appeal …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Why don't all other countries take the same approach to US-cintrolled companies gathering data on their citizens?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Money talks?

      US has the biggest army and they are not afraid to use it to support their interest.

      1. Zolko Silver badge

        @Doctor Syntax

        Why don't all other countries take the same approach to US-cintrolled companies gathering data on their citizens ?

        some do (like Georgia recently), and then they get an orange revolution and the new government reverses that decisions and re-grants all rights to the US-controlled companies

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Many do, although with differing approaches and effectiveness - like China, those within the EU, and the UK.

    3. Dostoevsky Bronze badge

      No one else has companies providing the services America's do? I mean, where's the German Microsoft, or the French IBM?

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        We're not talking about providing services, we're talking about data slurping. If Microsoft were constrained not to do that do you think they'd really pull out of markets in a fit of pique? The rest of the world is a much bigger market than the US.

      2. Khaptain Silver badge

        "No one else has companies providing the services America's do? I mean, where's the German Microsoft, or the French IBM?"

        Germany = SUSE Linux

        French IBM = BULL

        French IBM = Dassault System, outside of Aircraft, have been making software for a long time, one of the most notable might be CATIA

        They might not be as large as Microsoft but they certainly exist..

    4. Groo The Wanderer

      Because they screw us over on a regular basis and we're trying to avoid "covert operations"

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Probably because they'd still like to trade in other areas with the U.S.

    6. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Why don't all other countries take the same approach to US-cintrolled companies gathering data on their citizens?

      Perhaps the data is being shared with them?

      (GDPR helps, I think - we need something similar in the USA so we can see what's being tracked and control it individually, especially with 2FA more and more often demanding a CELL PHONE NUMBER)

  2. williamyf Bronze badge

    Go for SCOUTS

    ByteDance has the money to handle the legal battle, and going that route gives TikTok more time to collect that sweet-sweet data...

    1. Dinanziame Silver badge
      Angel

      Re: Go for SCOUTS

      Would that be boy scouts, or girl scouts?

      1. williamyf Bronze badge

        Re: Go for SCOUTS

        all 3 of them

  3. Burgha2

    Trump will allow them back, but only after he extorts a few million from them. Unless Zuck gives him even more, of course.

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      He already did. The US billionaire who owns 15% of Bytedance showed up at Trump's swamp palace to meet with him, and later that SAME DAY he posted on his discount social media site about how much he supported Tik Tok, a 180 degree turnaround from his position when he was president.

      Pretty obvious payments were made or promised. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Trump's idiot sons installed as a board member of Bytedance with generous stock awards right after Trump takes office and makes this whole thing go away.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

        An existing current example that Trump could follow would be that of Hunter Biden sitting on Ukraines Energy Board. It's a little bit difficult to understand what his actual purpose was though.....

        https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-politics/what-hunter-biden-did-on-the-board-of-ukrainian-energy-company-burisma-idUSKBN1WX1P6/

        When his term is up Trump can then simply pardon his son for any wrongdoings,,, it seems to be the in thing to do, at least according to Joe Biden it is .

        1. Wang Cores

          Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

          Except now he can't plead the fifth due to the pardon. Good thing your thought leaders are so bigly brained and haven't made a fuss over Biden actually giving them an anti-corruption gift.

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

            He hasn't plead the fifth on anything, because there's no reason to. He admitted to his gun & tax crimes, which typically are not charged for possession of a gun as felon which was not used in any crime or tax offenses when the tax + penalty is fully repaid. Not saying he shouldn't have been charged or convicted, but all of that only happened because Biden left Trump's prosecutor untouched to continue to pursue his investigation. Meanwhile Trump will not only not leave Jack Smith in place, he's said he wants to prosecute him!

            So go ahead and waste more time to keep investigating Hunter and Burisma. There's nothing there, despite how much republicans want there to be. At worst Burisma hired him because having someone connected to the US VP was a feather in their cap. Rather like the several companies who have added Don Jr to their boards in recent weeks since Trump won the election. I guess you're going to claim that those appointments are somehow totally legit? The huge jump in their stock price after they announce he's been appointed suggests that investors believe they are going to get some special favors from the government. Since Trump is president rather than vice president, he would be in a position to make those things happen in a way that Biden was not when Hunter was on Burisma's board.

            If you're hoping his inability to plead the 5th is going to lead to some major revelations you're going to be really disappointed. Of course next you'll say that the fact he isn't admitting to crimes even when he's immune means he's lying and you'll want to prosecute him for perjury in 2025 which won't be covered under his pardon. The MAGA scum won't be satisfied unless Hunter is hounded by prosecutors for the rest of his life, because they just can't stand that their orange jesus is a many time repeat felon who will no doubt commit a huge stack of additional crimes in the next four years. The only justice I hope to see for him is a Big Mac induced heart attack or stroke before he can finish out his term.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

              The problem is not for Hunter but for his father, as Hunter will be called as a witness and that is when he Hunter no longer plead the 5th..

              1. DS999 Silver badge

                Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

                Yeah keep believing Joe Biden did anything wrong as far as Burisma goes. I'd almost enjoy it if the MAGA moron squad tried to go after them, because they would be constantly frustrated by their inability to find anything.

                The house has been investigating Hunter non stop for two years and found shit, and the special prosecutor Trump appointed back when he was around the first time investigated even longer. He couldn't find anything worth charging. He was also humiliated when he tried to go after the Mueller investigation and couldn't even get a grand jury to agree to his charges. What Trump wants prosecutors to do and what is actually possible in terms of the very low bar of getting a grand jury indictment (let alone a subsequent conviction) are two very different things.

                Trump is, as always, a profoundly stupid man, and he thinks he can just tell the FBI "lock up Hillary" and it'll happen. He'll find out the difference between the very real actual charges against him and the made up charges he wants against people on the Jan. 6th committee very quickly when they are unable to get any indictments because "investigating Jan. 6 and reporting on things that personally embarrassing to me" are not crimes.

                What he can do is cause them to run up a bunch of legal bills, though I expect that the Trump haters will easily handle that via gofundme (and Trump will probably try to go after them when that happens, just watch)

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

                  With the changes to the house, we might suddenly start to discover things. It's funny how you don't find it strange that Hunter Biden, a man with no knowledge of the industry, was on the board of a Company in Europe's most corrupt country.

                  https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/07/29/ukraine-is-still-too-corrupt-to-join-the-west/

                  In the beginning it was declared that it was officially declared as not being Hunters laptop, as verified by 53 FBI people. Then it was his laptop but the contents might have been tampered with.. In other words the FBI was covering up for the Bidens at the Bidens request. Next you'll be telling us that Hunter didn't do crack or hookers..

                  And by Maga, you mean the largest majority of American voters. So everyone got it wrong but you, that's a little bit surprising.

                  1. Casca Silver badge

                    Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

                    Maga won and you keep on publishing shit like this. And as an AC because you are an coward?

                  2. DS999 Silver badge

                    Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

                    With the changes to the house

                    What changes to the house? Your majority will be LESS than the already razor thin margin you have currently, so it sure isn't going to help you find stuff you haven't found after two years of digging and countless millions in expenses (the house won't release the figure, so you know it is bad)

                  3. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

                    Re: Cough Hunter Crack Head Biden cough

                    sure. it's just as strange as seeing the idiot sons of trump touting crypto currency, as it their father. None of them know the first thing about crypto.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Trump will allow them back"

      What if Biden were to allow them a waiver? Would Trump then reverse that, just to be contrary and start off by pissing off all their users?

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        start off by pissing off all their users?

        What does he care? He will never be in another election, so he isn't going to care about the average people at all. What he does will be solely focused on what makes billionaires happy - the billionaires who he can leverage to become richer himself, that is.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "What does he care? He will never be in another election, so he isn't going to care about the average people at all. What he does will be solely focused on what makes billionaires happy - the billionaires who he can leverage to become richer himself, that is."

          Isn't that exactly what Biden/Pelosi/Obama have been doing for the last X years.

          1. Casca Silver badge

            And AC:s keep on being right wing morons

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Nope : I'm a left wing moron, but shhhh, don't tell the other ACs...

  4. Khaptain Silver badge

    "ByteDance, incorporated in the Cayman Islands but headquartered in China, challenged the constitutionality of the law in May.""Ba nning TikTok is so obviously unconstitutional, "

    If the headquarters are in China then the American constitution surely does not apply... It applies to American people not Chinese people.. China has it's the own laws, and apparently it's own government controlled version of TikTok which is kind of ironic, so I don't see how Tik Tik have a leg to stand on.

    I don't use TikTok to I really don't care, but I have understood that it contains a lot of unhealthy content...

    1. Falmari Silver badge

      US Constitution applies to the US Government

      @Khaptain "If the headquarters are in China then the American constitution surely does not apply... It applies to American people not Chinese people.. China has it's the own laws"

      The US Constitution applies to the US Government when it comes to the laws it can make, quite a bit of the Constitution is about placing limits on the power of government.

      "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..." The First Amendment applies only to the Government it places constitutional restrictions on the laws the Government can make.

      The nationality (ByteDance is not a US company TikTok Inc the US subsidiary is, and the Creators are US citizens) of the Petitioners for Review of Constitutionality of the Act is irrelevant. The judge rejected the constitu-tional claims:-

      "On the merits, we reject each of the petitioners’ constitu-tional claims. As we shall explain, the parts of the Act that are properly before this court do not contravene the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, nor do they violate the Fifth Amendment guarantee of equal protection of the laws; constitute an unlawful bill of attainder, in violation of Article I, § 9, clause 3; or work an uncompensated taking of private property in violation of the Fifth Amendment."

      He did not throw the case out on the grounds that the 1st and 5th Amendments of US Constitution do apply to the US Goverment because ByteDance are not a US company.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Megaphone

        Re: US Constitution applies to the US Government

        Limits are placed on the US federal and state governments with respect to CITIZENS and LEGAL RESIDENTS/VISITORS.

        For foreign entities there are treaties, and for foreign citizens there are visas. For foreign-owned businesses they can be allowed, restricted, banned or even confiscated. That's how "National Sovereignty" works. Any other interpretation, PARTICULARLY that which implies special (or any) rights imparted to foreign-owned companies and/or ILLEGAL residents/visitors is a RIDICULOUS "bleeding heart" *HOBBLING* of such national sovereignty that exists NOPLACE ELSE in the world. Like every other nation, FOREIGN people and entities are allowed access to the USA according to laws that do not EVEN have to be FAIR. The US Constitution cannot be used to argue ANY rights for foreign controlled businesses. Byte Dance is WRONG on this and may find their assets confiscated, but I hope they TRY and get way with it. SCOTUS is essentially the LAST word in appellate jurisdiction and as such can clarify this once and for all, most likely with a 6:3 majority.

        NEXT might be a confiscation of all of that FARMLAND the CCP got away with snarfing up, which is PROBABLY used for hiding criminal aliens and drugs, and spying on our military (rather than growing food). WHY they were allowed to buy land in the FIRST place is beyond INSANITY, but WHEN the truth comes out the Feds are likely just to tear up their deeds and auction it off to people that want to grow FOOD.

        .

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      By your argument the US this legislation wouldn't apply to them anyway.

    3. Groo The Wanderer

      EVERY nation has the right to ban China's spyware.

  5. frankvw

    Not just TikTok

    I wonder if this will also go for all the cellphone apps that control imported Chinese appliances. As El Reg noted already, the smartphone app that controls your fancy (but Chinese) web-enabled voice-controlled toaster will also tell Beijing what you discussed on the breakfast table, where the kitchen containing said table is located, where you work and what you discuss while at the office and what not.

    Tiktok is only the tip of the iceberg.

    1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

      Re: Not just TikTok

      ...tell Beijing what you discussed on the breakfast table, where the kitchen containing said table is located...

      It is far worse in France, there the table and chairs have sex.

    2. Irongut Silver badge

      Re: Not just TikTok

      > your fancy (but Chinese) web-enabled voice-controlled toaster will also tell Beijing... where you work and what you discuss while at the office and what not.

      That is some very clever spy tech if a toaster in your kitchen can reveal where your office is located and what you discuss there.

      Mybe you need some dried frog pills and a nice lie down till you stop frothing at the mouth.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Not just TikTok

      maybe not yet, but certainly possible I recall Furbies being banned in certain places because they used a microphone for certain functionality. And some time ago I visited a military base where they would not allow cell phones to be brought by visitors onto the ships that were docked there.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    USA is FUBAR

    Damn

    It is so bad over there

    Please UK stop before we drink from that poison

  7. Phones Sheridan Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    “ Then again, he could change his mind.”

    Then again, he’s probably more likely to declare all independent media “Fake Press”, all social media to be “election-interfering” and ban the lot, to be replaced with official government approved news outlets and social media of truth unicorns and pixie dust.

    It worked for Putin right?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      to be replaced with official government approved news outlets and social media of truth unicorns Truth Social (and pixie dust, of course).

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    America

    It’s your bed.

    You shat in it.

    Enjoy!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: America

      They are now used to it, they have just spent the last 4 years covered in vomit.

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