back to article Ransomware hangover, Putin grudge blamed for vodka maker's bankruptcy

Two US subsidiaries of alcohol giant Stoli Group filed for bankruptcy protection this week over financial difficulties exacerbated by an August ransomware attack. Charles Caldwell, CEO at Stoli USA and Kentucky Owl (KO), told the bankruptcy court in Dallas, Texas, that they faced more than $84 million in debts. Among the …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Extremists

    What a joke.

    They make vodka. Putin, you do not have a worldwide grip over vodka. It's fermented potato. Anyone can do that.

    You really need to get over yourself.

    1. Bebu sa Ware
      Headmaster

      Re: Extremists

      "It's fermented potato."

      I was thinking that was Irish Poitín (Poteen, Potcheen) but Wiki assures me that it can be made only from cereals, grain, whey, sugar beet, molasses and potatoes. A bit restrictive?

      So no ever so off legs of ham then? But that's scrapie scrumpy I think.

      A least turnip and swede (rutabaga) aren't the list which is a small mercy.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Extremists

        A least turnip and swede (rutabaga) aren't the list which is a small mercy.

        Try Austria for turnip abuse!

        https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/turnip-schnapps-wildschonauer-krautinger

        One blogger describes it as “a hit of pure sauerkraut, which [trails] off into something weird which reminded me of [a] pair of training shoes I once owned.” It’s also said to improve digestion.

        Much like Zwack Unicum then, which can improve digestion by encouraging the emptying of stomach contents. I've tried Krautinger, and personally I don't think it was as bad as Unicum.

        1. goodjudge

          Re: Extremists

          Ye gods! Unicum. There's a blast from the past. 20-year-old me and some friends in Budapest, 30ish years ago: "Ooh, look at the name of that drink, fnarr fnarr, snigger snigger." Then after 1 sip: "Bleurghh... Jesus Christ, someone actually LIKES this stuff?"

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Extremists

        >So no ever so off legs of ham then? But that's scrapie scrumpy I think.

        Only when they can't get rat

  2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

    Finest Latvian vodka

    They make vodka. Putin, you do not have a worldwide grip over vodka. It's fermented potato. Anyone can do that.

    So you or I could mash potato and call it say, Grey Goose? But it isn't fermented potato anyway.

    Stoli Group was bought by Yuri Shefler in 1997 following the Soviet Union's collapse but shortly after Putin came to power in 1999, he signed an executive order in March 2000 that aimed to reclaim the country's ownership of the now-privatized vodka trademarks.

    It's a.. bit more complicated than that, and a fascinating tale of IPR use & possibly abuse, along with a dash of irony-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolichnaya#Trademark_ownership_and_production_rights

    Along with being a bit of a relic of the Cold War. So Pepsi wanted to break into the Soviet market, the ruble couldn't be converted, so they did a swap deal getting rights to distribute Stolichnaya in the US and elsewhere. Then along came SPI and their claim to the brand, which has been argued in courts around the world ever since, with SPI often losing. But SPI traded heavily on their version of Stolichnaya being 'Russian', which lead to fun things like this-

    In July 2013 columnist Dan Savage joined gay bars and clubs and called for a boycott of Stolichnaya and other Russian vodkas.

    Even though Stolichnaya was really Latvian.. Although it was sometimes possible to get confused when there were 2 almost identical bottles of Stolichnaya on off-licence shelves, except for some small print. At least with another famous IPR dispute, identifying real Budweiser vs the inferior knock-off was a lot easier given the distinctly different branding. But then 2014 happened, creating more problems for SPI-

    As of 2007 fermentation of Stolichnaya starts with Russian winter wheat and rye grains and pure glacier water and takes about 60 hours.

    Ah, those famous Latvian glaciers, rising majestically from the East European plains. Ah, marketing. But then sanctions came, making it hard to import authentic Russian wheat & rye.. but SPI Stolichnaya was still 'Russian'. And then more marketing-

    Stolichnaya's global distributor Pernod Ricard responded by insisting that it is an authentic Russian vodka, because nothing is added or removed during the bottling.

    Err.. right. Pernod Ricard should try distributing their own version of a Cornish pasty and see how far they get. But the irony is that in trying to claim to be 'authentic Russian vodka', it's still Latvian. And despite forced rebranding to 'Stoli', potential customers still assumed it really is 'Russian' vodka and boycotted it due to the Ukraine thing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Finest Latvian vodka

      I was going to post something along the lines of "sits back and waits to see how long it takes the Putin ass lickers to turn up" but I see you beat me to it.

      Do you get a bonus for speed?

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Finest Latvian vodka

        "sits back and waits to see how long it takes the Putin ass lickers

        Ah, more projection. This has very little to do with The Putin and everything to do with some shady oligarch plays, IP law, the blowback from sanctions and why Bill Hicks was absolutely right about marketing. If SPI had read the signs, he could have rebranded Stoli as Latvian, or maybe even Ukrainian (where Stolichnaya was originally produced) and Shefler may not have lost his cash-cow.

        Do you get a bonus for speed?

        Nope, but as a bonus: Try drinking ethanol instead of methanol. The few remaining brain cells you have left may thank you.

    2. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: Finest Latvian vodka

      Thank you for the interesting write up. I'd offer you a beer but I think you'd prefer your stuff a bit harder.

      So all that's missing from all of this is the vital question - will I still be able to buy the Vodka at Tesco? I've a few people to buy christmas presents for and Vodka is always a winner for them.

      1. Bebu sa Ware
        Coat

        Re: Finest Latvian vodka

        "Vodka is always a winner for them."

        Alternatively 500 ml of spectra grade ethanol will do very nicely.

      2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Finest Latvian vodka

        Thank you for the interesting write up. I'd offer you a beer but I think you'd prefer your stuff a bit harder.

        Heh, I once dated a woman who worked in the drinks industry and told me about some of these shenanigans. Personally I'd suggest help lobby the supermarkets to stock more real Budweiser because Budweiser Budvar's Dark lager is awesome.. But hard to find in the UK. The saga of Budweiser vs Budweiser is another interesting tale of IPR disputes, started when Adolphus Busch decided to steal the name, and then AB tried to use their legal might to bully Budvar.

        So all that's missing from all of this is the vital question - will I still be able to buy the Vodka at Tesco?

        Probably, at least while stocks last. It's still a big brand, so it'll probably continue in some form although it might rebrand again to distance itself from Russia. But there's a whole slew of 'premium' vodkas on the market now, so questionable if 'Russian' adds brand value or not. Smirnoff also traded heavily on being pseudo-Russian and got boycotted as a result, even though in the US, it's made in Illinois. But there are a lot of 'premium' vodkas. Personally I'm not that keen given vodka's pretty much base spirit and it can be hard to tell the difference. Plus I've seen suggestions that if you just run cheap vodka through a Britta water filter, it can be very hard to tell the difference between cheap & premium brands. Then again, I once got very drunk in Moscow at a vodka tasting session where it was possible to taste the difference.. for the first few shots anyway.

        1. Mike 137 Silver badge

          Re: Finest Latvian vodka

          "I'd suggest help lobby the supermarkets to stock more real Budweiser"

          Here in the UK almost all beers ostensibly from Italy and Spain, and around half the "English" beers ostensibly from regional breweries are brewed under licence by Heiniken.

          Ah, branding: the ubiquity of bullshit!

          1. wolfetone Silver badge

            Re: Finest Latvian vodka

            The "Madri" beer you see everyone raving about uses the old Carling recipe. The "Carling" you get now is a different drink altogether. They both still taste like piss though.

            I am doing my best to look at where these beers come from when I buy them. Given the cost of them all I try and get a foreign one as, well why not? It's come further to me than Staropramen has from Burton-upon-trent. Estrella Damm and Rosa Blanca are probably the nicest lagers outside of Budvar that I've had and aren't expensive.

            The Clarkson lager Hawkstone is insanely priced for what is, essentially, a crappy craft beer. It's nice, you'd drink it if it was available and it were free. But it's not worth the £9 for a pack of 4x 330ml bottles.

        2. Inkey
          Pint

          Re: Finest Latvian vodka

          Yeah Bill Hicks was right....

          That is all.... virtual beer beer for you sir... (less chance of chundering yer dinner or a hangover)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Russian vodka is only good for cleaning paintbrushes. The scandinavian stuff isn't bad, but all the best vodka comes from Poland.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      The scandinavian stuff isn't bad, but all the best vodka comes from Poland.

      Or try distilling your own. It's legal in the UK for personal use. But another bit of vodka trivia. Once upon a time (early '90s) there was a lot of Finlandia vodka in UK shops. Apparently that was due to another swap deal. Finland got Tornadoes, we got vodka. International trade deals get fun like that.

      1. Mike 137 Silver badge

        "try distilling your own. It's legal in the UK for personal use"

        It's not quite that simple in reality. The simplest and entirely legal way to produce flavoured spirits at home is to buy the spirits and add the flavours (as in sloe gin) without any distilling needed. Or you can approximate by fermenting with a high alcohol yeast, yielding up to about 20% alcohol by volume (also entirely legal).

        The revenue have always been very strict on distilling (mainly because of the huge revenues from alcohol) and the penalties for illicit distillation are severe. My local pharmacist used to produce distilled water for sale to motorists. About every three months an inspector would come and test his still for traces of alcohol or other relevant distillation residues.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: "try distilling your own. It's legal in the UK for personal use"

          > My local pharmacist used to produce distilled water for sale to motorists.

          He should have sold it to motorists as alcohol-free Vodka

      2. Malcolm Weir Silver badge

        In the classic style of that commentator, this is total bullshit. Finland has never had Panavia Tornadoes.

        Finland is the process of getting Lockheed F-35A Lightning IIs, but for now they have a fleet of Boeing F/A-18C/D aircraft, which they call F-18C/D because they don't use the ground attack capabilities that the US Navy wanted (like Switzerland, Canada and formerly Australia).

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          In the classic style of that commentator, this is total bullshit. Finland has never had Panavia Tornadoes.

          In the classic style of that commenter (I've never been a commentator, at airshows or otherwise), they never miss a chance for an ad hom.

          The story was told to me by someone who worked for Marshalls Aerospace. I'm obviously mistaken about Finland purchasing the aircraft, however it's possible it was part of a procurement deal, ie from a quick Google, Finland really wanted a twin-engine jet, so may have evalutated the Tornado, but I can't find anything that confirms it. Or the person who told me the story was equally incorrect.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            >Finland really wanted a twin-engine jet, so may have evalutated the Tornado

            They were just hoping for a return of Group B rally and were looking for an advantage

      3. Ken G Silver badge
        Pint

        How do Tornadoes taste? The only reference I find online is like a Long Island Iced Tea served after being whisked.

    2. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

      To be fair to Russian vodka, they have a broad range from great stuff down to something I'd only use to descale a toilet bowl. The irony of Stolichnaya being a "premium" brand in the west is that it was one of the cheapest and harshest tasting brands in the Soviet Union. I once bought a bottle of it (in a reused mineral water bottle since production outstripped the supply of the proper bottles). It had a foil cap, like an old style milk bottle, and you could feel it burning your mouth and throat with even the smallest sip. The hangover from a 500ml bottle was crippling.

    3. DoctorPaul Bronze badge

      Came here to say just that, check out Wyborowa or Żubrówka (the one with the bison grass). As for Stoly, it's so oily it reminds me of what we used to run 2-stroke motorbikes on in the 60s!

  4. Little Mouse

    "softened demand for hard alcohol products following the COVID-19 pandemic"

    People are drinking less spirits these days? I'd assumed the opposite was true. (But then I am working from a very limited data sample..)

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      Probably some are like me

      I didn't drink for months during the pandemic, because I don't drink alone, I wasn't going out, and my then girlfriend was an ICU nurse working crazy hours and the last thing she was interested in when she was off was getting drunk.

      I find I don't drink as much as I used to when I go out now. I used to never have hangovers unless I really tied one on, but maybe the months of no drinking caused me to lose my resistance or whatever so now I have to drink a bit more moderately than before to avoid feeling blah the next day.

  5. KayJ

    Truly the world is full of eejits and coincidence is possible, but it doesn't strike me that "mystery ransomware attack" and "Putin's grudge against them" are separate things given the little prick's sponsorship and tolerance of all manner of cybergoonery.

  6. James Anderson Silver badge

    Stoli gone bankrupt! Has Patsi gone teetotal? Will Bollinger be the next to fall.

  7. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Simple solution

    Since even the owners can't spell it and have to abbreviate the name why not launch, Genuine Stolichniya Vodka?

    Assuming many pissheads genuine connoisseurs aren't over familiar with Russian orthography.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Simple solution

      Why not call it "Putin Vodka" formerly known as Stolichniya. That will surely annoy him

  8. tekHedd

    ...have you tried Stoli lately?

    It couldn't be, say, that their product is now incredibly meh? Cause I bought a bottle this summer, and I don't know if it's worthy of being called "midrange" vodka.

    Sometimes you fail because you fail.

  9. Tron Silver badge

    Unimpressed.

    Fighting a legal battle with any government is a daft waste of money. Cut your losses and rebrand.

    Russian assets would have been seized eventually after sanctions. Right it off, claim on your insurance or try to blag compensation from the USG. The writing was on the wall for that from Day 1 of the invasion, so getting as much out as you could, as fast as you could would have been a good idea.

    They presumably didn't protect their internal systems from being accessed online, which is poor security. Offline back ups. Plan B: Paper.

    They make booze. Given the number of alkies on the planet it should be difficult to make a loss.

    External factors didn't help but these guys may need to look in a mirror.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Unimpressed.

      They presumably didn't protect their internal systems from being accessed online, which is poor security. Offline back ups. Plan B: Paper.

      Yep, especially after refreshing my memory about home distilling and HMRC rules in general.. there are huge penalties for failing to submit lots of paperwork on time, and HMRC is notoriously unsympathetic. Plus my application kinda failed at the first hurdle having to refresh my memory what a hectolitre is. Why not just use litres? Or firkins? I also thought the law had been relaxed to allow home distallation, but as another poster pointed out.. Nope. All the revenue must be protected! But still seems a pretty arcane and unfair system, that doesn't exactly encourage craft distillers. Seems morally wrong that duty is owed during the brewing, distillation and maturation process rather than when the product is actually sold. Plus not even the angels escape HMRC given it looks like duty is charged on the 'angels share'. Not suprising the big distillers use non-traditional stainless steel instead of casks I guess.

      They make booze. Given the number of alkies on the planet it should be difficult to make a loss.

      I dunno, looking at the process to distill legally, there are a lot of up-front costs and overheads. Plus a very crowded market and unless you've got a convenient celeb backer to help, high marketing costs. Which I guess is why there are brand managers like SPI and mega distillers.

      External factors didn't help but these guys may need to look in a mirror.

      Yep. SPI's CEO spaffed a lot of money on megyachts, Scottish sporting estates etc and now seems to be in a bit of trouble,

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Unimpressed.

        If you don't like the laws then buy your own. How much did you donate to party coffers vs Diageo ?

        1. John McCallum

          Re: Unimpressed.

          As we are dicussing a US Co. here don't forget "campain contributions" as well.

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