Microsoft flashes Win10 users with more full-screen ads for Windows 11

Microsoft is encouraging Windows 10 users to move to Windows 11 with more full-screen ads in the doomed operating system that urge users to buy a new Windows 11 PC. windows 11 ad Above: Seen on your reporter's Windows 10 device Microsoft has been running a campaign for a few months now, which shows full-screen warnings that …

[heyrick]

<shrug>

For the very few things I use a Windows box for, I'm still using XP. Never saw a convincing reason to upgrade, and I don't use it enough to even think about replacing it with something modern.

Don't worry, it is airgapped from the nasties.

[MJI]

Re: <shrug>

I have a VM for a photo scanner that will not need updating.

May be once I am sure all slides and negatives are scanned I can delete it.

[MickeyLane]

Re: <shrug>

If your VM becomes a pain in the neck, check out VueScan. Costs but works on anything (I think)

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: <shrug>

I have a laptop with Win10 installed on it. It loves in a drawer in my work room, until I run into some software that requires Windows. This happened yesterday. The laptop has been off for several months. It spent several hours downloading and installing "updates".

Once it stabilised, it seemed to work fine, I tried out the software, then shut down the laptop and brought out my Linux machine (said software* has a Linux version as well). Install was faster, reboots don't hang for hours, warning me not to turn off my machine, and I remember why I don't like to use Windows. Icon is for frustrated me...going off to get some tea, coming back and...no, Windows hasn't finished updating yet.

*SDRConnect for running software defined receivers.

[PCScreenOnly]

Updates

Assumes that people update !

The MiL only updates the laptop when I am there and insist, otherwise she will just switch on and use it. Yes I do try to remind her, and also to sort her Onedrive out.

I also look at it as with an older TV I have. No longer has "smart" features, but an external stick in the HDMI resolves the loss of functionality. Windows may not update, but as long as the browsers which is what most people use get updated, they will not care as their only exposure is "the browser" - if they don't just call it "google". Oblivious to the risks to the OS

[The Dogs Meevonks]

Re: Updates

I awoke this morning, boot up my PC to find that microsoft had installed, without my consent or permission 'copilot' on my windows 10 pro machine in an overnight update.

It was immediately uninstalled because MS can fuck right of with that shit... But I will NOT be upgrading to windows 11 and I'm wondering how long it will be until they start stopping you from uninstalling things like that at all.

If I was reinstalling windows, I'd consider windows 11, but only if using atlas (atlasos.net)

Otherwise... I really should just bite the bullet and learn how to install and use linux

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Updates

Just do it. A full install from scratch took minutes on my current machine. I like Mint, but of course you should go with what you think will suit you. System updates don't require reboots unless you update the kernel, which is fair enough.

The mental shift from Windows requires a little bit of effort, but getting a fully functioning system really is quite painless.

You definitely won't have crapware installed by stealth the moment you turn your back, either.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Updates

"The mental shift from Windows requires a little bit of effort, but getting a fully functioning system really is quite painless."

While true, it's worth foing an audit of the s/w installed on the Windows device first, ideally split into groups such as "I can't live without this", "quite important" etc down to "why is this shit even on my PC?"

Then check to see if there is an equivalent Linux version/work-a-like of the most vital things, or other ways of doing stuff you need to do. For many things, there will be options, but you need to go looking for those options. In some cases, there may simply not be a way to do something you want.

I say this as a long time FreeBSD user who switched in the days of Win98 (I never did "upgrade" to Me or Vista).

Life in *nix-land has improved dramatically in the years since then, but there are still "gotchas", especially for anyone running anything niche or specialised and it may take some serious research/work to find a way to work on Linux, or maybe even impossible.

In my case, pretty much the only time I boot Windows up these days is when I update my Garmin SatNax (and my Windows based work laptop where I don't get a choice)

[bemusedHorseman]

Re: Updates

Can confirm, I'm a gaming content creator and I recently saw a video about "why don't creators use linux?". I had no idea how hobbled the Linux version of Davinci Resolve is, due to (what else) codec licensing crap. After watching through, even if I only played games with native Linux ports, 80% of my creation workflow would be nearly unusable simply due to the tools not being feature-parity with their Windows versions...

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Updates

That's what I was talking about in my reply. It's not always about the actual program you use and whether it's been ported to Linux (and in your case, who well it's been ported), but more a case of looking at what you actually do and seeing if a similar workflow can be achieved through other means. But I fully accept that that may not actually be possible.

Having said that, I have no idea what Davinci Resolve can actually do and how you use it On the other hand, a lot of YouTube creators seem to like OBS Studio running on Linux, even those creating Windows related content. There's also things like Kdenlive and Open Shot. I'm not a big user of video recording/editing so have no idea if they could do what you need. Like I said, it's not always about finding a program that is identical, it's about looking at your workflow and seeing if you can work differently and with different programs. After all, even on Windows, a lot of video based programs have FFMPeG/libav underpinning them, both originating on and still developed on Linux :-)

[The Dogs Meevonks]

Re: Updates

This is mostly a gaming PC, occasionally I do some very mild video/photo editing, aside from that it's watching TV/Movies via 'emby', playing games and regular web browsing that I do via firefox with various plugins for script/cookie/tracking protection, I also use OpenVPN with my service for another layer of privacy.

Seeing the work valve have done to get gaming working on their steamdeck, I'd probably lean in that direction.

But I'm also 45 and getting to a point where I think I've become a little lazy about learning entirely new ways of doing things... But I am getting so angry at the enshitification of everything, that I'm reducing my time online and considering these kinds of changes out of pure spite. :)

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Updates

To be honest, you sound like everything apart from the gaming can be moved to Linux without too much trouble. Emby is available as is the open source Jellyfin fork and the other "boig one" Kodi, Firefox, Chromium et al run on Linux and the privacy related plug-ins are all available too, NoScript, Ghostery, uBlock Origin/Lite etc

[Pirate Peter]

win 11 no thanks

when i upgrade the OS on my 3 devices running win 10 it will be to linux,

i have to suffer that POS M$ call win 11 on a work laptop, and after using it on there, no way do i want it on my own machines

as has always been the case, every other version of windows is a POS

currently weighing up a MAC mini to replace 2 of my aging win 10 laptops that were upgraded from win8.1, as i replaced my surfacebook 2 with a macbook air after seeing win 11 in action on my work laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

@Pirate Peter - Re: win 11 no thanks

I couldn't care less for my work laptop, I'm being paid to use it.

So, if Microsoft wants me to use W11 on my personal computers, a recurrent monetary token of appreciation will surely convince me. Otherwise it's my computer, my rules.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: win 11 no thanks

Work kicked me of the network with a Windows 11 work laptop because it was not a proper Windows install according to them. I only updated it from windows 10 because of all the annoying messages.

They want to reinstall it with Windows 11. In the meantime I did a clean install with local user logon of Windows 11 and it is way quicker than logging on with the work microsoft account. Still get access to the network and edge with Outlook web is a lot quicker than the office 365 variant. Doesn´t have all the features but I can read and send mails.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: win 11 no thanks

The only sizable organisation I have personally encountered with a well built standard OS image was the Royal Mail Manual Data Entry Centres that power their "automated" sorting machines. Operators need to fully log out before their hourly breaks before logging back in again afterwards, and they are already paying all those "bodies" to work 45 minutes of every hour with time waiting to log in being counted as working time - those things logged in FAST!

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: win 11 no thanks

Same thing here...work tried to remotely "upgrade" my work-issued and -managed laptop from Win10 to Win11, and was unable to. Pronounced the laptop "unstable" and had me wipe it so they could try again (all of this remotely). Which failed *again*. After a day of sitting around watching my mouse cursor move around, (IT support guy on the other side of the world), I thanked them and told them I would take the machine in to the office for my local IT person (who has been stripped of *almost* all his former powers, but can still re-image machines), who had it up and running 11 in twenty minutes.

...and they wonder why people like me retire...

[chivo243]

Re: win 11 no thanks

I've said many times before, "Mom, I have bad news, I won't support Win11, either it's a very windowie feeling linux , or a mac mini I have on the shelf..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: win 11 no thanks

> i have to suffer that POS M$ call win 11 on a work laptop

Thankfully retirement is coming to my rescue . not long to go now. and my W10 laptop will see me there....

[Ken Shabby]

Re: win 11 no thanks

Can’t afford to retire, ex wife would starve, on the other hand.. .

[Mentat74]

Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

As someone who has been running some form of Windows for more than 30 years, I have to say that I've gotten sick and tired of Microshafts bullshiat !

Over the years they've made it harder and harder to use their OS without getting in my way...

- Stupid UI updates that make it harder to do simple tasks.

- Forcing people to login with a Microshaft account.

- Ads everywhere.

- Not respecting people's choice of default browser.

- Crappy 'updates' that break stuff.

And the list goes on...

[Pascal Monett]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Amen to that.

I will drag my Win7 home PC and my Win10 work laptop for the next few years until my retirement.

At that point, I will have the time to erase everything Borkzilla from my personal universe and move to some version of Mint.

I'm sure it will be quite refreshing to have, once again, a Personal Computer.

[Lon24]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

The end of Microsoft at home here is imminent. The only reason left for having a couple of laptops dual boot was my partner used Teams to an organisation that is a complete MS shop. Then, this week, we tried it from my Kubuntu crapbook (aka HP Stream 11) via browser. She couldn't tell the difference. I could - the crapbook cost me £40 because it was not man enough to run the OEM installed Windows but is quite sweet replaced with Linux's arguably 'heaviest' GUI.

So a final goodbye to MS after 40 years and those tiresome, long and uncontrollable updates. Notable in the same year I dumped using another control-freak organisation and wondered why it took so long. Oh, and on to discover my latest phone actually allows me to delete the offending/offensive Twitter/X app. Now social media is run via my own instance on a RaspberryPi.

Freedom from the IT oligarchy and back to real personal computing is possible - except maybe Google is too hard.

[42656e4d203239]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

you know that there is an electronified version of the Teams app that does all the things quite well in Linux? Yeh I know - electron blah blah blah but if one has to intereact with Microsoft establishments, its a sacrifice that I am willing to make.

In M*ro/Arch its in the AUR, but I am sure someone has done the same for *buntu

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

> Stupid UI updates that make it harder to do simple tasks.

Dear Microsoft,

I have a suggestion for improving your profitability: split the Windows development section into nine - no, seriously. One ring team focuses on the underlying OS alone, only publishing an API and no GUI. The other eight fight it out amongst themselves by offering alternative GUIs that users can download through the store.

Three of the eight can then choose to copy WinNT, Win95 and Win10 while the rest can take their chances with the crayon wielders on new designs. Culling the least popular every two years should keep things stable for end users.

You know it makes sense!

[MJI]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Your forgot 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

> Your forgot 7

Who could forget 7 of 9?

[Lee D]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Allow themes.

Release an official Windows theme (i.e. the Windows look is nothing more than a customisable theme and there's nothing "hard-coded")

Release an official Windows XP theme, 2000 theme, etc.

Watch as everyone just has things as they like and almost nobody over the age of 20 cares about the default "modern" Windows theme whatsoever.

I would gladly theme all my Windows machines to 3.1 standards... so much easier to see, read, do things and also much fewer resources required.

Instead Windows has killed themes, then forced you all into the most flat, boring, non-descript, difficult to understand (because everything is so bland and samey) UI ever for no reason.

I want a scrollbar that I can SEE IS A SCROLLBAR and not just a thin panel of the same colour grey with absolutely no edges.

Same for office. Just make it themeable and bundle an Office 2000 theme with it. I would happily switch to that and continue using it (including disabling the ribbon and everything else and instead hiding those rarely-used functions behind a bunch of menus, a single toolbar and/or allow me to customise what I WANT TO SEE ON THEM).

We've given some UX designers millions to make the exact worst and most bland UI you can imagine, and they've infested every software company in the world.

[PCScreenOnly]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Themes that had a recent high priority exploint - no thanks

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Don't blame the idea for being implemented by Microsoft.

[Lee D]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

That MS can't implement themes without creating a security problem is their problem, not mine.

XML describing layout and a bunch of PNGs - no code required. Literally just a descriptive language of how you want the screen laid out. All executed functions are done in the software, not the theme.

It's when you think "Oh, we'll just make the entire computer interface a giant web page on the backend and run active code - like Active Desktop, VBScript or Javascript - to make it work like an interface"... that's when you introduce compromises.

But "Save icon is 100x100 pixels, at X = 10, Y = 10, icon image is 'save.png', clicked image is 'save.png' " etc. isn't any more easily compromisable than just opening a PNG (and if that's dangerous, you're already stuffed!).

[Mike007]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

A scrollbar you can see... Now there's a novel idea!

Imagine not having to try scrolling random screens just to see if there are more options hidden below the bottom item, which has of course been sized so that you don't get an ugly half object on the screen which might give it away...

Who the fuck thought I wanted the scroll bars to be hidden and only appear whilst actually scrolling???

[JWLong]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

""Who the fuck thought I wanted the scroll bars to be hidden and only appear whilst actually scrolling???""

Micro$hit$haft, of course, who else, no one!

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

"Who the fuck thought I wanted the scroll bars to be hidden and only appear whilst actually scrolling???"

Someone using Win 3.0 at 640x480 or 800x600? It just took a few years for the suggestion to be approved :-)

It is, of course an insane idea in these days of wide, very wide and ultra wide screens where saying a few pixels of horizontal space is a total waste of effort.

[Helcat]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Oh, I don't know: Having Edge as my default browser is great.

Block it at the fire wall and lock it down so it can't do anything works wonders if somehow, some malware manages to get through the various Anti-virus, anti-malware layers and tries to open me default browser without my permission. Did this with Internet Explorer back in the day, do it with Edge, now. If I want to visit a site, I will open my browser of choice and paste the URL in there (or, rather, do a search for the company and go to their official website, not the one I'm told to visit in the email).

But these Ads: All they do is sway me into moving away from M$. I don't want to be pestered when my PC is deliberately not capable of running Win11 (I disabled hardware features to ensure this and no, I will neither enable them nor get new hardware to accommodate M$). When I am ready, THEN I will decide to move on to a new OS. Not before and not on their insistence.

[Sudosu]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

I occasionally run a disk cleaning tool and every time it asks me if I want to close Edge so that it can complete the cleaning.

I never ever (ever, ever) launch Edge and yet it is doing something in the background.

Grrrrrrrr!

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

And don't forget pushing users to buy new hardware simply because Microsoft have chosen to stop supporting a certain version.

[Evil Scot]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

It is a creative way to sell sound cards.

[Sudosu]

Re: Win10 will be the last OS from Microsoft I will ever use...

Remember, don't use pencils to change the DIP switches as you may get graphite in them and short the contacts.

[Tron]

Windows not updating...

...is why people will stick with W10. Microsoft's default behaviour to customers is now so toxic that ending support is a bonus.

[LenG]

Full screen ads for Win11?

I must be doing something right as they have not appeared on my system.

[Mentat74]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

Me neither...

Maybe because one of the first things I do is uninstall the 'store'.

Probably also the reason why I didn't get my printer 'updated' to an HP printer...

[David Hicklin]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

none here either, maybe due to local accounts only and never having a M$ one or not using the store etc, ad removing any unwanted crud.

It will be really nice once the updates stop, finally a stable system !

[IGotOut]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

Maybe only ones that can upgrade are being targeted?

[SundogUK]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

Nope. My Win 10 machine can definitely be 'upgraded' to 11 but I haven;t seen any ads. Doesn't matter because my next desktop will be one of these:

https://www.entroware.com/store/desktops/poseidon

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

VERY nice, sadly out of the price range for this geriatric. I'm envious.

[SuperGeek]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

£1,119 for the base spec with 16Gb RAM and integrated Radeon graphics? Are they Apple??

[PB90210]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

No ads for Win11 here (Win10 Home), but the 'failed Win11 requirement' has been reset to 'get ready for Win11. Check hardware requirements'since the last Patch Tues

[Andy Non]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

None appearing on my screen either. Thinking about it, I don't recall ever seeing any ads on Linux Mint. ;-)

[grassisgreenerism]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

I have not gotten it either. Maybe because I'm on a metered network and have disabled app updates in MS Store, or they think my system is unsupported (1024 * 768 monitor; UEFI and TPM disabled in BIOS).

[Sudosu]

Re: Full screen ads for Win11?

I am jealous that you do not get to play "Where's Waldo" with the tiny, cleverly hidden "skip" or "not now" button that lets you continue on to use your existing operating system as you had planned when you booted up.

[Mage]

Ten years ago

Ten years ago you'd have been laughed at for suggesting Linux.

I know 12 yo and 72 yo ladies using Linux Mint with Mete Desktops.

I do have a Win10 laptop. It ran Win7 in 2016 when new (last shipping) and was switched to Linux entirely in 2017. Replaced by next laptop which came with no OS, so I installed Win10 on the old one using Win10 key in its bios. It's not in use.

[billdehaan]

Re: Ten years ago

Ten years ago you'd have been laughed at for suggesting Linux.

That's both because ten years ago, the Linux desktop was far less mature than it is today, and because Windows wasn't the intrusive system it is today.

I booted Yggdrasil in the mid 1990s, and migrated a ton of Xenix servers over to Red Hat, then Mandrake, then Mandriva, in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Linux was, and is, an awesome server OS. It made a great backup server, FTP server, NNTP server, firewall, etc. But the desktops simply weren't ready for end users.

KDE, originally just a knockoff of CDE, was a great improvement over Motif and OpenLook, to be sure. But expecting end users to edit .xinitrc in vi? Forget it.

Fortunately, few apps required a GUI to install, so the headless machines could easily be administered via SSH. And once installed, many services allowed remote administration via a web page.

But unless you were talking to a gearhead who was happy to edit config files in vi, and understood xfontset, yes, you'd be laughed at if you suggested Linux. Few people wanted to tinker with /dev/audio just to get sound working, or futz in 640x480 video trying to find the proper video settings for their 1920x1080 video card. Even setting up networking could be a royal pain.

Today, it's not just that Windows is declining in usability, and security, and privacy, and pretty much every other way that's driving people away. It's that Linux is now much easier to install, to configure, and to use. I downloaded a Mint ISO to a thumbdrive, and installed it on a new machine in about half an hour. Mint recognized the sound card, the 1920x1080 video, the web cam, the microphone, the SSD, the gigabit ethernet, and the USB sound card and speakers right out of the box.

So unlike a decade ago, Linux really is a valid choice for a lot of people who don't require specific Windows-only software to run.

Given that so much of what we used to run locally (POP3 and IMAP email, downloading news in RSS, etc.) has been replaced by web apps running remotely, just being able to run a modern browser covers a lot of use cases of modern users.

[chololennon]

Re: Ten years ago

> Ten years ago you'd have been laughed at for suggesting Linux.

>> That's both because ten years ago, the Linux desktop was far less mature than it is today, and because Windows wasn't the intrusive system it is today.

I am sorry, but ten years ago (I'd say 15 years ago) the Linux Desktop was very mature, and far better than Windows.

[SuperGeek]

Re: Ten years ago

Linux Mint is also SO LIGHT on resources that my ASUS TUF FA507UV's fans never come on in balanced power mode, unless I start using CPU threads running several torrents or video editing in OpenShot. In Windows the fans seem to never stop, or the SSD activity light stop blinking at idle!

Linux is awesome. Been using Mint since v2.2 (Bianca) as a second OS. Now at v22 it's going to be my daily driver come next year!

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Ten years ago

I played around with Linux from the time you had to ftp 10+ diskette images from tsx-11.mit.edu (see, I typed it so many times, I can still remember).

It was interesting, sometimes useful, but never a candidate to replace Windows...until Open/LibreOffice matured and provided me with the applications I most use on Windows. I picked up Ubuntu, then dropped it when they went all Unity, replaced it with Mint, and have been very happy using it as my main home OS. I can open Word, Excel and editable pdfs, browse the Web with Firefox, and have all my email accounts on Thunderbird. Only thing I can't do is access the pictures on my iPhone, but that's not a Linux fault, that's all Apple's doing.

Linux doesn't suck any worse than Windows, and that statement is soon to become, "Linux sucks a lot less than Windows, and it doesn't show you ads"

(have converted several non-techie relatives from Windows to Linux, and reduced my support activities significantly)

[billdehaan]

Re: Ten years ago

I played around with Linux from the time you had to ftp 10+ diskette images from tsx-11.mit.edu

Oh, that sounds familiar. We had a computer bookstore literally across the street from one workplace, and they stocked all of the O'Reilly books. We were a Solaris shop, and basically any O'Reilly book that came out, we bought the next day. So we were using the GNU tools on DOS, Solaris, and even OS/2 for years. Most of our Linux distributions we got from there on CD. I think it was either late 1996 or early 1997 that we were comfortable enough with Linux to replace a Xenix machine with it. Of course, it was just an NNTP and FTP server to begin with, something that wouldn't disrupt the business if it failed. As management confidence grew, we started migrating more and more things over.

We had Star Office (later Open Office) some time around 1998, when the licencing made it free. This was at a time when Office suites were $500 or more, which is why Microsoft, Lotus, Apple and others sold lower-cost (and lower function) "Works" packages for about $100.

And absolutely, if your use case is web surf, play movies, mail, edit Office documents, Linux can do all that, and then some. There's still custom, Windows-only software that holds people back, and as good as it is, Wine isn't a panacea, so Windows isn't going anywhere. But it no longer has the strangehold at the consumer level that it once did.

[Grunchy]

Re: Ten years ago

“There's still custom, Windows-only software that holds people back, and as good as it is, Wine isn't a panacea, so Windows isn't going anywhere.”

Yes, this. People email me their Office 365 Word.docx documents, and so I have a Win10 VM with my old Office 2007 Professional license on it that I use to open and edit them. It’s not “perfect,” turns out there are some subtle differences between Office 365 and Office 2007, but it is a darn sight better than the Libre Office trying to be compatible.

(Any time I need to make new documents I make sure to use the modern Libre Office suite. Microsoft still “works,” but it’s such a PITA in comparison that it’s just plain obsolete. For example, programming new macros is light years ahead in Libre Office.)

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Ten years ago

Most of our Linux distributions we got from there on CD.

I still remember the thrill when Walnut Creek started offering the distributions on CD! They got a good deal of my money, and I still have a bunch of those CDs in a box somewhere.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: Venerable?

That would be the autocorrect.

The actual word was venereal.

[Sudosu]

Re: Venerable?

Now my monitor is covered in coffee you bastard!

[Doctor Syntax]

I suppose the ploy is to make sure that W10 is so much shittier than W11 that switching is the lesser of two evils.

[Ball boy]

From what I read and hear, it'd take some very serious work to make 10 WORSE than 11 ;)

[Steve Hersey]

I'm sure there is exactly that serious work underway at MS to enshittify W10.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of MS' last updates to W10 contains a logic bomb that randomly crashes the machine after official support ends if the extended support hasn't been purchased. I don't think even Redmond would be QUITE dumb enough to just brick W10 machines, but they're obviously not far from that level of dumb.

[Doctor Syntax]

"after official support ends"

How would one differentiate this from normal function?

[ITMA]

Erm...

The things that bork will still bork but you won't get a new load of borking things borking every Tuesday.

Microsh1te will still ignore problems... So no real change there.

[Mike_R]

MS update contains a logic bomb

Running a desktop, dual booting Win 10 and my preferred distro (MX) Linux.

Couple of days ago installed Win 10 updates (No, I didn't watch. Not after the first 15 minutes)

After the update completed, the boot process had been changed: No more Linux. Only boot directly to Windows.

Colour me Angry. I think steam was coming out of my ears.

It took some knowledgeable support from a Linux forum (free and exceedingly helpful) to climb back to normal dual boot operation.

Windows can stay meanwhile (guess I'm an old softie) but at EOL its OUT.

side note: Heard of similar happening with windows 11 and Linux.

Just a warning.

[Sudosu]

Re: MS update contains a logic bomb

This has happened to me a few times in the past, including the one that really nuked GRUB a few months ago.

[isdnip]

Re: MS update contains a logic bomb

To be sure, it works both ways. I had a desktop machine which ran Windows 7, but also had Linux Mint dual-boot. While I'd previously used distros that made it easy to set the default boot in Grub, Mint didn't, so in order to boot Windows I had to catch Grub and switch it over to the non-default Windows on time. Windows does reboots in its update cycle and that got in the way. And Mint is considered one of the user-friendlier distros.

Of course if I were 'leet enough I would have known how to find and tweak Grub in vi, but again that's old school. What really killed it for me is that I once made a mistkaken change to the GUI settings and could not undo them, even after reinstalling -- it found something hidden on a user data partition (not one that was normally reinstalled) that had the changed setting, and kept it. No undoing the mistake. No usable GUI.

[Mike_R]

Re: MS update contains a logic bomb

@lsdnip

I googled "boot mint does not find windows" and found at least seven posts addressing the problem in different combinations: "windows won't boot" "mint won't boot" and so on.

Did you try finding a solution to your problem? Contact Microsoft support (lol)? ask on a mint support forum? Google/DuckDuck...

[isdnip]

Re: MS update contains a logic bomb

You missed the issue. Grub booted Windows, but Mint offered no way to make Windows the default boot, only one that could be selected during the few seconds between Grub boot and Grub's booting of its default OS, which was Mint. Yes, that's a setting somewhere in Grub but Mint offered no tools to fix it. Users have to go and do the manual Linux find and edit text files routine.

[Doctor Syntax]

Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft lack the talent to make something worse?

[ITMA]

Careful!

The buggers will take that as a challenge.

[MJI]

Don't want a coprolite PC

It will be shite.

[Andrew Scott]

Re: Don't want a coprolite PC

Remember an episode of "Mad about you" where they slipped that one past the censors. Think it was the episode about filming in Yoko Ono's apartment.

[cjcox]

Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

From a home user perspective, I haven't seen much issue upgrading from 10 to 11 (except resources, time, etc... the usual).

But at work, where there is a ton of configuration and policies, etc. It's not as pretty at all.

At least that's what our Windows team says.

We're not quite to the point of mass life cycle upgrades, so the timing for our company is off. That is, we can't solve this problem by buying new (in the vast majority of our platforms).

Anyone seeing this problem as well?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

"We're not quite to the point of mass life cycle upgrades"

I think the official (Microsoft) view is that you are and should act accordingly. They want you to buy new licences.

[Yankee Doodle Doofus]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

At my org we have had no major issues with moving to Win11, even with machines that are not officially supported. Group Policy through Active Directory is working. Automated software deployment packages still work from our aging deployment server. We can push out a new version of an app, or an entirely new application to machines, ignoring whether they are on Windows 10 or Windows 11. We have yet to find any hardware or software that is compatible with 10, but not 11, or vice-versa, once Microsoft's own artificial hardware requirements are bypassed, that is.

[Homo.Sapien.Floridanus]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

… and then you woke up?

[43300]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

We've done it - all computers now on W11 (all on supported hardware, which nearly all of the laptops were anyway as a result of a move from desktops to laptops in 2020-21; the few which were't were kept on W10 until they were due for replacement). Really wasn't difficult, nor is it really any worse than W10.

I'm no fan of the hardware requirements, but those are actually more of an issue for home users who tend to keep hardware for longer. I also don't think it offers anything over W10 (but equally, it's not really worse, especially after running some scripts to remove crap and apply some sensible settings).

There does seem to be an element on here of exaggerating how much of a problem it is. While any new OS version is going to pose some challenges, we've not encountered anything major, and none of the software we use has given any trouble either. The main reason why companies haven't bothered is probably a combination of it not offering any compelling reason to move, and waiting until all their hardware is supported (which with a 5-year cycle, it now will be). Time will tell what happens over the next 11 months!

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

...especially after running some scripts to remove crap and apply some sensible settings

Hmmm...you'd think that Enterprise editions of Windows wouldn't have things like "Xbox bar" and "Windows store" and other equally useless crapware. But you would be incorrect. My last work laptop came with a bunch of HP crapware as well. And the "Enterprise edition" isn't what it used to be, as I understand...your org needs to be the size of Microsoft before you get to have a version stripped of crapware and telemetry, if I understand what I've been seeing for the past several years. Otherwise it's on you and your IT org to create an image that doesn't have all the junk...and then you have to make sure it doesn't get put back with a sneaky update (which also makes it harder to remove).

[MJI]

Re: Win11 easy when it is, and impossible other times

>> XBox bar

As I mentioned to hardware support.

"But I have got a Playstation!"

[Marty McFly]

I don't think this word means what you think it means....

Merriam-Webster defines "upgrade" to mean:

A: to improve (livestock) by use of purebred sires

B: to advance to a job requiring a higher level of skill especially as part of a training program

C: to raise the quality of

D: to raise the classification and usually the price of without improving the quality

E: to extend the usefulness of (something, such as a device)

F: to assign a less serious status to

A, B, & F don't apply.

C & E are certainly questionable.

Seems to me option D is the best description for Windows 11.

[captain veg]

Monopoly abuse

Clearly Microsoft has an unfair monopoly on inserting unwanted, intrusive and annoying ads directly into the Microsoft operating system.

They ought to be forced to open up this lucrative ad market to all comers who are prepared to pay a fair price.

Oh, hold on... didn't we pay for this Microsoft operating system in the first instance, probably as an unwitting surcharge on the hardware price?

As you were.

-A.

[navarac]

Encouragement

The only encouragement to upgrade to Windows 11 that Microsoft encouraged me to do, was come of Windows altogether. I moved to Linux Mint in 2020 and feel really sorry for those stuck with using Windows of any sort, other than in a building!!

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Encouragement

Also a Mint user.

I can use Windows when I'm being paid to, but when I want to get something done, I look elsewhere.

[Ashto5]

Never had a problem

In all the years since win 3.1 I have never had a problem withy he OS

It has always been some driver from a 3rd party

Not buying a new pc still run my old one no problemo

Sorry MS

[Kev99]

My brief experience with win11 was "no way in hades". I saw absolutely no compelling reasons to update from win10. The only reason I updated from win7 was because mictosoft forced its sycophants to cripple their code so it wouldn't work any more on win10. Now before mictoians start crying out about security, speed, and other blather, the only security problem I ever had all the way back to win3.1 was when my preteen daughter opened an email in AOL from an unknown jerk. A quick log-in by me got it fixed.

I'm old enough to remember when win3.1 came on five floppies as opposed to the current umpteen gigs and near mandatory mictosoft login. I run decent anti-virus / anti-malware kit, never open emails from anyone I don't recognise (and won't open any attachments sent via facebook) and clear out all cookies and trackers with every close of the browser in addition to regularly running bleachbit. I also don't play any online games

[frankyunderwood123]

Win11 isn't that bad...

... If you don't use it.

Jokes aside, I have a Linux gaming rig that I dual boot into Windows for VR gaming.

It's been running Win11 for a few months. At boot steam starts and I barely see the underlying OS unless it wants to update.

It was necessary to run debloater on it to make it usable - and what a god send that is.

Look it up on github

[Grunchy]

Re: Win11 isn't that bad...

Debloater, interesting. I installed Ghost Spectre versions of both Win7 and Win10 as virtual machines. Not only are the installations heavily “debloated,” they are minimized to eliminate as much unnecessary background demons in order to maximize video game performance. Hey, that suits me. Not only are updates eliminated but so too anti-virus.

Well, as a VM anti-virus is completely irrelevant. Not only are these VMs cloned several times over, they also have “snapshots” for perfect recovery no matter how severely they get hacked (still never happened).

I put all my actual data on the Ubuntu host OS, and back up on NAS servers that none of the VMs have any idea exist anywhere.

What makes it truly optimal is the PCIe forwarding of a dedicated gaming video card plus USB controller. Did I mention the Ventura Hackintosh, with the same setup?

Yep.. same as the Windows.

My cup runneth over!

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Win11 isn't that bad...

Thanks for the tip on Ghost Spectre. Seems a much better Win10 than the original!

Now running in a VM on my Linux Mint box.

Have a [virtual] one on me....

[AbominableCodeman]

Re: Win11 isn't that bad...

VR was my last sticking point for getting off windows too. You might want to check out the ALVR project, it's a bit of a faff to get working, but provides a competent Linux VR implimentation foer Steam based games

[Grunchy]

No Updates

I got the advert too, on one of my Win10 VMs that is granted network privileges. There’s a few: the Consigno one, the Steam one, etc. All of them are a clone of one original Ghost Spectre installation I did a couple years ago that doesn’t have Microsoft updates. Nor anti-virus. Also, since the VMs never run concurrently, they all have the same license.

Well, if something gets hacked, big deal. Not only are they all clones, they also have their own snapshot recoveries that I can roll back to at any second. Plus full backups on a NAS, what the hay.

The irony is that, ever since I have asserted complete dominant control over Windows, I barely have any use for it any more!

Just nostalgia I guess.

[deadlockvictim]

Linux in the new year

My plan is to start learning Linux in the new year.

My main PC runs an Intel (Skylake) i7-6700K Processor, which while it will 10 years old next year is still a great processor.

I have been a Mac user since 1989, a Windows user since 1998 and have an aversion to the command line which I will have to overcome.

Nowadays, I use the PC for surfing, occasional spreadsheet & text document work and logging on with VMware Horizon Client so that I can work from home.

I am an SQL Server DBA by trade but I run SQL Server at home on a separate drive unconnected from the Internet when I am learning. Brent Ozar has good training videos.

I have an IcyDock at the front of the machine with 4 removable trays that allow me to run different systems.

So, which flavour of Linux should I start with? And are there any recommendations for books to start off with?

[MJI]

Re: Linux in the new year

Try Mint

[Mike_R]

Re: Linux in the new year

Mint is probably the easiest to get into gradually.

If you do not suffer from any level of technophobia MX Linux has an extremely wide variety of GUI (point & click) tools, and an extremely helpful support forum.

though the learning curve might be a trifle steeper.

Another item that might influence you decision: Do have a friendly neighbor/acquaintance/neighborhood juvenile who could offer help in moments of crisis?

[Colin Bull 1]

Re: Linux in the new year

Mint Cinammon or Mate is first

Ubuntu is my next choice

I have now moved to MX Linux to escape systemd - but growing up on Unix 35 years ago I feel it should be easy to add a start script but systemd is beyond me.

I have rarely to use the command line mainly to use awk.

I find a web search is easiest for most things - you get to know best sites after a while.

[BenDwire]

Re: Linux in the new year

If you really don't want to learn command-line stuff, then I would also recommend Linux Mint. Put it on a SSD if possible and it will fly in comparison to W10. I updated a 16 year old's computer to Mint and I haven't heard a moan since (well, not about that computer). He remains happy and uses it every day.

As for books, they all quickly go out of date. You could grab a few Linux magazines, but quite honestly the internet has all the help and information that you need.

Good luck

[Sudosu]

Re: Linux in the new year

Those processors are great, I still have a 6600k in my secondary gaming rig.

It has been overclocked to 4.8Ghz for over half a decade without missing a beat.

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Linux in the new year

Mint MATE here...mate, and I've been very happy with it for years. You'll run into the occasional pothole, but the forums are good and typing the error message into Google will usually get you an answer you can use. But the potholes are getting fewer and fewer and the learning curve is getting shallower and shorter with every release. Libre Office is getting quite good. KiCAD is f'ing *awesome* for the kind of EE stuff I do, and X-plane is loads of fun.

Here's a trick I suggest to those who are reluctant to make the jump from Windows to Linux. Buy a second HDD (or SSD). They're well under $100 on Amazon. Download and burn a Mint live DVD or USB key. Pull your Windows drive, replace it with the new blank drive and boot from the DVD or USB live Linux image. If you like what you see, install it on the blank drive. Use it for a while, secure in the knowledge that your original Windows drive is safe on the shelf, and you can go back to it anytime. If you decide to switch to Linux, get a USB HDD adapter, use it to mount your Windows drive on the Linux system, and copy your files onto your Linux drive (your Windows system is still safe).

Oh, and I second the suggestion of using an old laptop with an SSD. You can pick up off-lease Dell Latitudes and Precisions pretty cheap on the auction sites or from a dealer who handles them. Throw an SSD in them and install Linux and they get quite zippy.

I7-6700K here as well. No complaints at all.

[Chasxith]

Re: Linux in the new year

Old laptop suggestion is a good one.

I acquired a 2015 HP Elitebook with a i5-5200U, no or RAM SSD or battery. £40 off the Fleabay spares or repair section. Bumped the ram up to the 16GB max with some spare modules I had lying around, threw in a 500GB SSD and bought a brand new battery off iFixit (Battery and bottom cover are tool-free removal, HP designed it rather well). Was also pleased to find it was the posh model with the 1080p IPS screen.

Running Mint XFCE, it feels just as sprightly as my two year old W10 work laptop (Dell Latitude 11th gen i7) with comparable 5ish hour battery life. It's a lot quieter and cooler running than the Dell, and has proper trackpad buttons rather than a clickpad - what's not to like?

[LBJsPNS]

Re: Linux in the new year

If you're doing any A/V support, try Manjaro. Everything works out of the box.

[gnasher729]

Re: Linux in the new year

If you are a Mac user, you could get a new Mac mini and install (I think it’s called) Asahi Linux. From what I hear just a fine Linux version, the hardware is lovely, you’ll find it hard to ever get the fans running, and if you find Linux is not for you you have a Mac.

[SundogUK]

Next Dsktop?

https://www.entroware.com/store/desktops/poseidon

[andy gibson]

never seen an ad

I'm in the UK, using Windows 10 Pro and never seen any ads (for Windows or anything else) or had an update or notification trying to push Windows 11 onto me.

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: never seen an ad

Don't speak too soon.

MS has your number, your inside leg measurement and every other vital stat.

It is only a matter of time.

You can't escape.

[Freddellmeister]

You may consider ZoninOS

[deadlockvictim]

ZoninOS

Do you mean ZorinOS?

Bing suggested that I was actually looking for Domino's (pizza)...

[Zakspade]

Correctly worded ad reads as follows...

Hi, at Micro$oft we want you to get the most from your computing.

As you know, the OS we claimed was the last version (but isn't), is going to abandoned by us and if you continue to use it, you will be at the mercy of ne'er-do-wells.

We want you to dump your hardware and join us and our $Billions, by purchasing Windows 11! We *promise* we won't exploit you.

OR, you can take this opportunity to tell us to cut the cr*p by dumping Windows and switching to Linux or Mac. Basically, anything other than you being held hostage by Micro$oft.

But then, we know we have most of you by the short and curlies, so just give us your money...

[Trigun]

When Windows 10 goes, I'll be keeping a VM of it or possible a second PC/laptop of it, but it'll be Mint Cinnamon for the most at that point.

[Zebo-the-Fat]

Money!

I will upgrade when Microsoft pay me to upgrade my motherboard, Wyndoze 11 thinks it isn't worthy to be blessed with the new OS, so it will either be Linux Mint or a dodgy download of Win 10 LTSE (maybe both, dual booting like I do now)

[BobbyTables]

I am not looking forward to having to "upgrade" to W11 at work. I lose so much of my time to Windows just being a poorly designed OS and not being able to automate basic tasks which would be trivial on literally any other operating system. I find modern windows such a frustrating experience that very high on list of things I'm looking for in my next job is lack of Microsoft.

And I'm fortunately at an employer which can at least provide us with (some) PCs new enough to run it. Maybe it's the state of the UK being a poor country now, but I know a huge number of businesses and institutions still running 15+ year old hardware with nowhere near enough money to replace them. That's to say nothing of those with hardware much newer than that and still perfectly adequate, but missing a TPM 2.0. Most of these companies have stopped putting their heating on, and now M$ expects them to replace all their IT equipment. Schools are probably the worst hit and will turn even more to google.

W10 was a total piece of crap too. It had major stability and performance problems, especially early on, and the spyware baked into it crossed the line. I'd been dabbling in Linux since the mid 2000s but finally ditched windows entirely on my own hardware once 7 no longer really became viable.

[isdnip]

I'm still waiting for someone to show me any user benefits in Windows 11 compared to 10. I'm sticking with 10 and all of the talk about 11 is about how to downgrade to it, not why, other than the threat of no more updates, which frankly doesn't see like a big deal by now (of course being behind a firewalling router).

Honestly, and I am not looking for an answer involving the L-word, is there any advantage to 11 over 10? The new GUI is much worse (I don't want Mac-style icons without text on the bottom of the screen) so I'd need to install the third-party replacement for that to begin with.

[Tim Roberts 1]

I'll be honest and say that I've never seriously used Linux either, but have a win 10 pc at home and a win 11 laptop for work.

Why win and not Linux? My extracurricular interests and photography and ham radio, and while there are good Linux apps out there for both, imo those for win are better.

Having said that, win 11 does nothing extra for me than win 10 - I just bought it because that was all that was available at the time of purchase. As you say, the GUI is an effing mess, and quite frankly I don't like the intrusion into my private life by automatic uploads of my data to their "safe storage", with no uncomplicated way to turn it off.

[isdnip]

Yes, it seems that the only benefit is to Microsoft, who gets to spy on you more and sell personal information you don't want sold. My ham setup uses an ancient Creative USB soundcard that is utterly perfect for digital modes (line level stereo inputs and outputs), and while it works in Windows 10, it's so old Creative doesn't even acknowledge ever having built it. Windows 10 just understood it but any changes in driver support in 11 might break it. But then I also have a random collection of old software dating back to the DOS era, a lot of which broke in the 7->10 migration. So it's a risk. MS only thinks of currently maintained commercial software, and half the fun of Windows is the huge collection of random programs people just write and stick out there.

And a lot of that doesn't work on Linux, which has a very different flavor of "lots of free code". Linux is largely written by and for programmers. "What, you don't write your own c and shell scripts, you luser?" I don't want to. And frankly I think Unix sort of sucks as a starting point. TOPS-20 and VMS, now those were good OSs. OS/2 wasn't bad either for its day. Linux is a nice server system. Profoundly bloated for embeds, though -- compare the <1 MB codebase for the Xiegu G90 (pure SDR, no real OS) with the ~100MB codebase for the Xiegu X6100 (Linux with SDR as an app, and less reliable).

[ecofeco]

Not new

I've seen these off and on for the past two years.

The real idiocy and of course usual M$ FAIL, is showing it on PCs that have already been marked as not able to upgrade.

Some old M$.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Not new

M$ FAIL

We don't appear to have progressed far from: Abort, Ignore, Retry?

Notably MS added Fail in DOS 3.3, taken the sentiment to heart and never looked back.

Personally I recommend Abort, walk away, Ignore and never regret tossing these tossers.

[CowHorseFrog]

Advertising needs to be banned.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great idea.

Why not put up some posters with that message around town……

[deadlockvictim]

Advertising

I don't mind advertising so much but it's profiling that I abhor.

While I would rather not see a billboard with Coke on it, I'm prepared to live with that.

I'm don't even mind vendor websites telling that the last people who bought this bought/item also bought that book/item.

It's the insidious, STASI-like work of Google & others of building up a dossier on every user that I find criminal.

I still have not decided if Google since its inception is a net-positive on the world.

[CowHorseFrog]

Re: Advertising

Whats the difference ?

THe existance of one motivates the other.

[Anonymous Coward]

C’mon guys

W11

Just inhale.

[David 132]

Is there anything more guaranteed to induce aneurysm-level rage than a full-screen Microsoft ad?

I, for one, come very close to punching my screen whenever I boot my PC and Microsoft see fit to interrupt my workflow with a full-screen entreaty to use Edge, or OneDrive, or switch to a Microsoft Account, or upgrade to Windows 11.

A small tool-tip in the corner of the taskbar, I could maybe tolerate. But hijacking my entire screen, usually with an override to prevent Alt+F4 or Ctrl-Alt-Del? There's an entire circle of Hell for whichever fuckwit marketing executive thought that was appropriate.

(At last. A chance to use this icon in an appropriate context --->)

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Is there anything more guaranteed to induce aneurysm-level rage than a full-screen Microsoft ad?

There's an entire circle of Hell for whichever fuckwit marketing executive thought that was appropriate.

I think Microsoft has had its own ditch in Dante's 8th Circle for a very long time but now is looking to upgrade its subscription to a full Circle.

Although, given Microsoft products are likely to have overpopulated the 5th Circle, the big dude under the 9th Circle would probably extend a deep discount on enterprise Circle licensing.

Ultimately Microsoft would want their own Pit. I imagine Oracle has long had one.

[Mickey Porkpies]

disgrace

however they spin it this will result is massive amounts of hardware going to Landfill when it is perfectly usable. Disgraceful

[tygrus.au]

Fix 1 bug, break/remove 2 other features

Latest Win 11 update was causing errors for some users. Microsoft have a habit of fixing 1 error while creating 2 others (or removing previous features/compatibility).

Why should everyone keep trusting Microsloth?

[MickeyLane]

Meh

I have a Windows 10 box in my shed that does one thing only - run the Blue Iris security camera DVR package. There's no way anything outside can get to it so I don't really care if it even uses passwords. It doesn't have a Microsoft account to log into. It only uses the locally hosted Administrator account.

About a month ago, I installed a 2.5GHz Ethernet interface and disabled the onboard interface via the BIOS. Bad move. All of a sudden, my machine is 'not activated'. After many bad words and Fruitless Googles, I re-enabled the interface in the BIOS, disabled it in the network Control Panel thing and re-activated the machine.

I have NO inclination to mess with it any more.

[Sliver]

My PC meets all the requirements of the new OS for one thing, a gen6 i7 Intel. This and this alone renders my machine unsupported.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not "for". It's "except for" or "bar".