All bark, no bite? Musk's DOGE unlikely to have any real power

Well, it's official(ish): US president-elect Donald Trump has made good on a campaign promise to appoint Elon Musk to the head of "the Department of Government Efficiency" – or DOGE.  No, we're not joking. Doge, as in Dogecoin, the meme cryptocurrency championed by the SpaceX supremo. We even warned about the possibility of …

[cyberdemon]

DOdGEy DOdGEy ...

Deus Ex predicted it all..

https://youtube.com/watch?v=W19l_Xv4wY8

> Need I remind you that in the event of a national emergency, FEMADOGE has a list of 6 million Americans who will be transported to detention centres? Your tabloids call it R[E]X-84...

< Yeah, including the President, Congress, and the Supreme Court...

> In my position, I find it very easy to add names to that list..

[Omnipresent]

There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

There is no more law. There are no more free elections. There are no more checks and balances. America is gone. Maga cult has all three branches and all consuming power, due to the maga cult supreme court. There is NO MORE AMERICA. It's gone. Putin told him to put is oligarchs in charge, and he has.

He has installed a child rapist as the AG, a career cultists conspiracy leader as the head of the supreme court, a news corp talking head as the head of the military, and what ever bat shit crazy animal gabbard is in charge of national security, reporting directly to putang himself. FRUMPY PANTS is an all powerful emperor, having his strings pulled by putin. He can do what ever he wants... literally. He has already stated he is going to get rid of the department of education, and use the national guard to round up decenters. America is extinct right now. Russia pulled off a coup.

Let this be a warning to the rest of the world. Technology is being weaponized against you, and it has terrible consequences. What you see and hear on the internet is NOT REAL. Moving to a new "social site" will not save you. Nothing will. Dig in, because the future is going to very bad.

[AVR]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

He hasn't done any of that yet. The appointments need to be confirmed by the Senate, or the Senate needs to stand aside and allow Trump to make 'recess appointments'. The Senate has been protective of its powers in the past even with a president from the same party. Gaetz at least is heading for a long confirmation process.

[Omnipresent]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

He has both the senate and the house.. try again.

You seem to forget that the supreme court told him he can do what ever he wants as president in an official capacity.

He's a convicted thug felon, who's been compromised by putin, and this was a direct attack on freedom by russia. America is GONE.

[Omnipresent]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

...and if you think pootin is going let frump survive... LOL! They are going to crash the economy, sell it off to the highest bidder (russia, saudis, china... whoever), and when there is nothing of value left, pootin will shove him out a window, or blow up his plane and have the next most evil installed. Frump has already hinted he is willing to go beyond two terms.

[Khaptain]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Why am I suddenly reminded of those "Leftie Goes Crazy after Trump gets voted" videos on the interwebs......

[Denarius]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Da Komrade ;-) Klintons stories from 2016 still echoes in some heads. However DOGE is and will be part of the problem. Another damned bureaucracy. The real problem is too many Acts, laws and subsequent bureaucratic rules in response. Simple human behavior. For clerks, manglement et al, no news is good news so make rules to cover all contingencies so they cant be blamed for NOT having a rule for any given situation. The laws are usually well intentioned, but that paved road leads to a hot dark place. As then rules costs and effectiveness dont affects the clerks except to often benefit them because of the increase in paperwork, hence careers.

Just undo the laws back to minimum needed for society to operate. Avoid seeking perfection. Robert Heinlein comment " any societies whose laws cant be understood a normally intelligent person is unjust" applies IMHO.

[Khaptain]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

"The real problem is Greed"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

confused, you actually made a correct statement for once!.

[Khaptain]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

"confused, you actually made a correct statement for once!."

Common sense is not readily available to all, it probably explains your confusion; I am see that you appear to be finding a modicum of clarity.

.

[Peter2]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

While agreeing in principle the problem is that when you get beyond a certain point making the laws understandable by a normally intelligent person gets rather difficult.

For instance, there is a legal requirement that structures be made so that they don't fall down. That is expressed by specifying requirements for the specification of building materials; for instance specific grades of concrete and steel, their supports etc. That will make about as much sense to a layman as the standards required for secure cryptography.

If you don't have them, then at the extreme you'd have buildings that fall down, cryptography that doesn't work, dangerous drinking water, poisons in food etc. Yet if you do have the rules then the laws quickly get way too complex to be understood by a layman.

[tip pc]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Can always summarise intention and then later in technical detail that can and should be updated over time as advances are made, so long as they adhere to the intention.

US constitution looks like an attempt at future proofing but is constantly subjected to ‘interpretation’ by modern thinking.

[DS999]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

I still remember all the right wing nutjobs who were claiming Obama wasn't going to leave office after his second term, despite absolutely no basis whatsoever for thinking that. At least he never "joked" about the possibility of running for a third term like Trump did today.

You have to remember that Trump is incapable of humor or irony. Everything he says is either something he's going to do, something he wants to do if no one stops him, or an admission of guilt.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

You sure?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-third-term-stand-in-quote/

[codejunky]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

@AC

"https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-third-term-stand-in-quote/"

But surely that could only work if the president was a puppet? Maybe someone in mental decline? Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

But remember the media and all the dems were telling us he was as sharp as ever right up until the debate and it was just misinformation and cheapfakes that he was having senior moments.

And now they are all saying he should have gone earlier due to his obvious decline...

And they say MAGA is a cult... LOL!

[Casca]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

AC comments have no value. Fuck of to twitter

[W@ldo]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

I don't remember anyone being concerned about Obama leaving office. He was in a big hurry to get out of the presidency so he could cash the checks he got as kickbacks. For example, the publisher that gave the big O & Mike the book deals was paid a large amount by the federal gov.

You folks need to watch your own side of the pond or I'll start chiming in on why your country sucks so bad with the commies running the show. Sure you have free healthcare, but many of your comrades come to the USA for much needed treatment. They say they would die before they could get an appointment for a specialist. Don't even get me started on your poor dental care......

[Rich 11]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

If you think the UK's Labour Party is a communist organisation you are utterly detached from reality. They haven't even been socialist since 1994.

[codejunky]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

@Rich 11

"If you think the UK's Labour Party is a communist organisation you are utterly detached from reality. They haven't even been socialist since 1994."

There was a brief flirtation with Corbyn but thankfully rejected by the voters.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Not rejected by voters so much knifed by his chums.

I don't like labour because they want to give my money to indolent criminals and illegals.

I quite liked Corbyn though because he had the balls to have principles about the terrorists he liked and the Israeli terrorists that he did not.

[W@ldo]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

I love all the thumbs down from folks in the UK. I get it, you all lost all ability to express your own thoughts with the bobbies arresting folks for thought crimes. Read 1984, if you can read, or get an audiobook if you can't read. Also, the film Idiocracy is something you folks need to watch. You are already living in the Idiocracy and aftermath of 1984. Good luck returning to normal times.

[Rich 11]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Thanks for confirming that you are indeed detached from reality.

[HereIAmJH]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

They won't be selling anything off. They see the Federal budget as a trillion dollar piggy bank. What will happen is they will push through more tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, pseudo-trickle-down. (although they don't call it that anymore) The deficit will increase and at the end of 4 years we'll have an additional $15 trillion in debt.

They would like to kill entitlements to free up that money to bleed off additional national wealth, but the working class wouldn't stand for a direct attack on Social Security and Medicare. So instead they just drive the debt to the point where the government can't pay it's interest without raising taxes or cutting entitlements. They won't be raising taxes to pay bills. (and many retirees are going to starve)

BTW, we will also likely have another recession by 2028. Every Republican administration since Reagan has put us into a recession. I guess the good news is that a recession might drop prices. Deflation only happens in recessions along with negative GDP.

Life's little ironies.... Many said they voted for Trump because they were unhappy that the Biden administration hasn't reversed the inflation caused by COVID. Basically, Biden was too slow cleaning up Trump's mess so they voted for Trump. And tariffs will not bring back manufacturing jobs. The only way those jobs come back is by severely cutting wages. Do you want a $5/hr manufacturing job?

As far as DOGE making any real cuts, it won't happen. The Republicans have run on 'smaller government' for decades, but it never means spending less money. It means reducing the headcount and outsourcing services to private companies. Because somehow adding a 3rd party's profit margin is going to make things more efficient. I've worked for government agencies, I've worked for fortune 500 companies. They are just as screwed up as the government. Doubt that, see Boeing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

"It means reducing the headcount and outsourcing services to private companies. Because somehow adding a 3rd party's profit margin is going to make things more efficient."

It means more profit for them and their companies.

US politics s is the best money can buy.

[the Jim bloke]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

American quality is a thing of myth and legend i.e., long vanished from this world.. USA politics, media, and legal system has become an international joke, with any trace of competence replaced with a cult of personality.

if you want to buy high quality politics you would probably need to look at some of the smaller European nations.

[Peter2]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

I've worked for government agencies, I've worked for fortune 500 companies. They are just as screwed up as the government. Doubt that, see Boeing.

My personal opinion is that companies have a base level of incompetence which can be reached before their competition drives them out of business, which provides a corrective mechanism to ensure a base level of functioning.

The only method that government has of ridding itself of particularly useless departments is to spin them off as an independent company providing a service, outsource the work to them for X years and then at the end of that period switch to a competitor, which is why government does that.

If they want to stop that then another mechanism needs to be created to sort problems out.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Cunning Plan

we'll have an additional $15 trillion in debt.

When he took over Twitter, first he sacked people, then started withholding rent and creditors...

Same again would mean after sacking scores of government workers, they'll withhold social security and medicare and then default on the federal debt repayment, tanking the dollar and the credit rating. At the very least, Trump will show him the door, but not before the long term consequences have been set in motion

[heyrick]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

"and when there is nothing of value left, pootin will shove him out a window"

Sorry, but "Pootin" just isn't smart enough to pass as a BOFH.

[W@ldo]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Won't happen...he left office once, he'll leave again after 4 years. Most of the selling of our country to the highest bidder is done by the other politicians (both parties) and you can easily tell who is owned by China, Ukraine, etc by their policy votes.

[Omnipresent]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

EDIT:

I just realized these people have the patriot act as well...

[pig]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Well, at least you aren't over reacting.

[W@ldo]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Well, America was almost done in by the lefties and their open borders. How is that working for you UK?

The russia collusion hoax was a long running lefty thing that the media ran with even once the facts came out. A person is only a felon after they have been sentenced for a crime--he has appeals that will probably clear any charges, so don't hold your breath if that is what you are waiting on. Only in the UK and other 3rd world countries is someone guilty once charged. Works differently over here morons.

[collinsl]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

> How is that working for you UK?

Wouldn't know, we don't have open borders in the UK. We have an immigration problem, sure, but the borders are not open.

> A person is only a felon after they have been sentenced for a crime

Nope, being found guilty is what does it. Yes there are appeals but effectively the whole thing is on hold now until 2029 anyway, by which time it'll have probably gone away.

> Only in the UK and other 3rd world countries is someone guilty once charged.

Again, nope. The presumption of innocence is the golden thread that runs through British justice, as Rumpole of the Bailey would say. We've had it since the 1100s and in fits and starts it's been made more and more secure until the point we're at now in the UK where without a reasonable prospect of conviction you won't even be charged with a crime any more (which some could argue is too far the other way in some cases).

[Casca]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Fuck off to twitter where you belong

[Jonjonz]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Still in denial that mob rule has succeeded I see.

[deadlockvictim]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Have you considered Canada?

Bear in mind, if Trump & Project 2025 get their way, the US will be in such a colossal mess after 4 years, that president Ocasio-Cortez will need both of her terms to start the healing.

Assuming, of course, that she can escape her prison on Paradise Island.

[Herring`]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Hmm. For years - decades even - politics in the US (and to a certain extent in the UK and other countries) has been captured by big corporate interests. I mean, look at the US health "system" - who is that run for the benefit of?

The difference with Trump is that he doesn't pretend. He openly courts donations from big oil in exchange for "scrapping regulations". You can bet that any tariffs he brings in will have exceptions for those showing proper fealty. The thing about people who are corrupt on the quiet is that they fear being found out. Trump doesn't care.

[Khaptain]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Exactly, non-corrupt politicians do not exist as their colleagues have no purpose for them, regardless of which side of the pendulum you swing.

As per the quote "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

[Stoic Skeptic]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

Forget the Lithium this morning?

[martinusher]

Re: There IS NO MORE CONGRESS

>Putin told him to put is oligarchs in charge, and he has.

If everyone would just stop with this "Hand of Putin" nonsense then we'd be in far better shape to understand and so control our futures.

[Anonymous Coward]

America 1776 - 2024

You had a good run.

Loved the Apollo era and the cool cars of the 50s and 60s.

Elvis was great too.

Bye

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

If you were male and white

[Richard 12]

America 1981 - 2024

Fixed it for you.

1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60, overturns state laws designating a husband “head and master” with unilateral control of property owned jointly with his wife.

Yep, it's that recent.

[heyrick]

Re: America 1981 - 2024

My mother had to have my father countersign so that she could maintain a bank account. Never mind the fact that he was a dickhead and she was the one earning the money, he was blessed with a Y chromosome and she wasn't and that's all it came down to.

Also recently, though date unclear as I was a child, other side of the ocean.

[martinusher]

Re: America 1981 - 2024

This varied from state to state but as a rule of thumb women were not real people in the US until about 1970 -- there were restrictions not just on abortion (of course) but also on access to contraception if they weren't married. They were also second class citizens when it came to banking and property, especially when married (they couldn't get a credit card, for example - they were just allowed to be a signatory on their husband's card).

This is what made Roe vs Wade so significant. It wasn't anything to do with abortion as such but rather cemented the notion that women were real people throughout the entire US. (Which is why dumping Roe vs Wade was so significant, it was a real 'turn back the clock' decision.)

One of the problems we have with our emphasis on freedom here in the US is that this also includes the freedom to discriminate and to oppress.

[PhilipN]

Re: America 1981 - 2024

And not within living memory but until not that long ago women in England were chattels. Then the World started going downhill. (Joking, girls)

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: 1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60

given the MAGA/GQP preference for 'traditional values' which includes 'stay at home wives', I can see that being overturned pretty soon. They have stated that they want to get rid of 'no fault' divorce. That, along with Roe v Wade are just the first steps towards the overturning of the 19th amendment that gave women the vote.

Women are in the eyes of many in Trump's circle of cronies, crooks and sycophants, mere chattels and just like slaves, can be traded. The likes of Fuentes wants slavery brought back.

Goodbye yellow brick road, it was nice knowing you but at the moment, you are headed down the sewer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60

Where do you get this from? Stop watching CNN and MSNPC!

It is the democrat party and their ideologies on gender that has done most of what you describe. The handmaids tail is pure lefty wet dream material. It was a democrat who was celebrated for using a handmaid so he and his husband could have a child.

[Andy_bolt]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

They also gave the world jazz. That said, their grand empire definitely feels like it’s on the wane.

[ForthIsNotDead]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

Yeah but you can't hold that against them. I mean.... they've been living with it ever since. :-)

[W@ldo]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

The cars in the 50s/60s were crap. What we have now is much better/safer and even faster than the so called muscle cars of that time. There were some iconic styles, but the engineering was atrocious.

You folks in the UK have already lost your country(s). Every day we see news of folks being arrested for thought crimes or free speech violations. The 1st amendment over here still covers free speech, the 2nd amendment gives us the opportunity to protect ourselves. You folks have neither......bye.

[MashedPotato]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

Safer for whom?

[Ken Hagan]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

"Every day we see news of folks being arrested for thought crimes or free speech violations."

Funny that. I actually live here and don't see any of that. Perhaps your sources are just utter crap?

[Casca]

Re: America 1776 - 2024

another looney toon post

[Flocke Kroes]

A thin ray of hope

Trump will spend most of the time playing golf and Musk will be playing Diablo 4.

[deadlockvictim]

Re: A thin ray of hope

FK» ...and Musk will be playing Diablo 4.

Federal employees have not (yet) been classified as the Undead. Musk will be playing IRL, btw.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A thin ray of hope

He will have to play a LOT of golf to match Sleepy Joe and his endless holidays.

[Casca]

Re: A thin ray of hope

Oh, another AC moron

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A thin ray of hope

If he matches what he did last time he was president, he will be exceeding it.

'Sleepy Joe' has taken 256 days of holiday.

'The orangutan' played golf for 308 days, taking a total of 378 days holiday.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A thin ray of hope

You are fake news!

https://nypost.com/2024/09/07/us-news/biden-took-48years-worth-of-vacation-while-president/

"The 81-year-old commander-in-chief has racked up 532 vacation days in less than four years — about 40% of the 1, 326 days he’s been in office."

532 > 256.

I assume you're using wikipedia which gets its number from an article written in 2023. Its now almost 2025.

People have made the claim for Biden that "Being somewhere other than the White House is not the same thing as being on vacation."

Does this not also apply to Trump? No? Oh.. Its (D)ifferent!

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/17/politics/joe-biden-presidency-delaware-work-from-home/index.html

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A thin ray of hope

Orangutan is like monkey as they are both considered racist by some. I prefer kipper.

[JoeCool]

Re: A thin ray of hope

Yeah, that will just be the one hand.

Can still sign executive orders with the other.

[mrcreosote]

if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/13/tesla-initiates-sixth-cybertruck-recall-in-a-year.html

[Roland6]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

I suspect it will be more like the ability he demonstrated at Twitter…

[ITMA]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

Ah, you mean fire anyone who knows anything about how things work - and renege on severance pay promises - then treat who's left like slaves and tell them to "suck it up or feck off".

Such as inspirational leader.. NOT.

[breakfast]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

In fairness this is exactly what he intends.

[Jedit]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

You forgot "and get rid of anyone who isn't a Nazi". Although to be fair that's not precisely his remit, except for the bidding process on the lucrative private sector contracts for shipping people to the camps.

[Jonathon Green]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

Do you think we’ll get a rerun of the sink thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

The quicker someone issues a factory recall for the US the better

[ITMA]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

A "factory recall" would mean the UK having to accept the USA back for fixing.

They can bugger off! We have our own problems. LOL

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

See what happens if you install a legacy system and don't keep upto date with patch fixes

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

27 patches in almost 250 years is a pretty poor showing. Microsoft could teach them a thing or two!

On the other hand, there have probably been many more patches submitted, but when the decision has to made by a committee of of 50 with a 75% agreement level required, it's a surprise any patches ever get applied :-)

Coat. The red one :-)

[ITMA]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

Besides, it is 240+ years out of warranty.

[collinsl]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

I'd be happy to take the USA back into the UK on the following conditions - we won't accept them back until met though:

1. No more of this "states" nonsense - you're one big country, behave like it

2. All guns must be surrendered immediately. Permits may be applied for on the British system after suitable investigations are made by the police, as in the UK

3. Back taxes due with interest since 1774 to be paid in full.

4. Adopt the metric system immediately (except where the UK doesn't use it)

5. You may keep your law system as it's similar to the UK however Judges must now be appointed in the UK style by a panel of senior Judges rather than elected.

6. The US may have a devolved parliament with existing chambers however the UK parliament to have precedence.

7. Laws to be harmonised where they severely differ from UK law within 20 years

8. US constitution to be abandoned - unwritten constitutions and precedence are clearly superior as demonstrated in the British model

9. Capital city to be moved from Washington DC to New York. Public buildings in Washington DC to be turned into free museums explaining how wrong America was about the revolution, patriotism, American Exceptionalism etc.

10. English spellings to be adopted everywhere.

11. A billion will become a million million not a thousand million

12. Financial year to be harmonised with UK dates. No more of this September nonsense.

13. All police to be disarmed immediately except for SWAT teams which will operate on the UK model

14. British school curriculum to be imposed. British history to be taught.

15. British food culture to be imposed (tea, curry, beans on toast, kebabs etc)

16. "Football" to be renamed to "American Football" and replaced with proper Football on TV. Baseball to be retained but renamed "American Rounders" - "world series" to be renamed "North American premier league of American Rounders".

17. Freeview TV to be made available to all Americans

18. All internet service providers to sell their networks to OpenReach and rent the connections back. Single-area monopolies of ISPs to be abolished

19. US healthcare system to be nationalised and made part of NHS

20. The role of President to be abolished - the First Minister of the USA can be the leader of the largest party in the House of Representatives.

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: if it's anything like his ability to run a car company...

Make America Great Britain Again!

[MachDiamond]

Already pulling number from his.....

$2tn? Not likely.

Elon's post will be advisory only. The last time Donald Trump was President, Elon was asked to be part of a business advisory group that he dropped out of without contributing. I expect he'll make his excuses and bow out once again when he realizes that Congress isn't going to give him any rein. Jealous are those elected to their very lucrative posts. There's also the politician's patrons which are going to have a big problem if their bloated government contracts start going away or there's too much oversight in their opinions from somebody that isn't much of a manager, gets bored easily and takes everybody else's work that are around him as his own.

I highly doubt there is $2tn worth of room in the budget that can be trimmed in only fours year's time. One could, but not without a very pronounced revolt and massive drop in GDP.

Will Elon step down from his roles in private industry to avoid any appearance of self-enrichment while in this post? No? Didn't think so.

[Richard 12]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

Is there anything that prevents the executive branch from just not spending the money Congress has lawfully specified is to be spent?

The Supreme Court have destroyed the legal barriers, and the Republicans have already proven they simply won't impeach no matter what.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

"Is there anything that prevents the executive branch from just not spending the money Congress has lawfully specified is to be spent?"

The executive branch can veto spending that Congress has approved, but Congress ultimately controls the purse strings, not the President. If a spending bill is approved and the President signs it, the money can be spent. If the President vetoes the bill, Congress must then make modifications to get it signed or override the veto with a super majority vote. The Supreme Court would only come into play of the spending or lack thereof was unconstitutional.

[Richard 12]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

I mean if Congress has said "spend $100m on cheese", what prevents the President from ensuring the people who would actually buy said cheese cannot do it?

The Supreme Court have said he's got blanket immunity, so he can break the Congress cheese law.

Now swap cheese for literally everything.

There's also a fair bit of spending that was originally specified with a sunset clause that's expired and the law not renewed, however Congress has appropriated the money for it to continue.

Nearly all of that is veterans benefits.

[collinsl]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

> The Supreme Court have said he's got blanket immunity, so he can break the Congress cheese law.

They've said he has blanket immunity for official acts - whether or not something which breaks US law can be said to be an official act could be hotly debated in court. Yes this supreme court will likely side with Trump, but at the same time if Biden had Trump shot right now by seal team 6 and called it an "official act" I don't think this current Supreme Court would just say "oh well, he's within the law, nothing we can do". They'd likely agree with argument that it's not an official act to assassinate a rival because "official act" can be interpreted differently depending on how broad or narrow you feel like being at that moment.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

Yes, tempting as it is to look forward to the Elon and Vivek show, this really is, ahem, just a show. Musk wants deregulation, government contracts and protection from foreign competition. Congress is likely to give him all three without even asking. Trump wants to surround himself with successful people to perpetuate the myth that business and government are the same. But he also wants to continue to run things as an extension of the TV reality show and there's nothing he likes more than sacking people he's previously praised and promoted: chaos is an integral part of the format as it leaves him with someone else to blame.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Already pulling number from his.....

"Congress is likely to give him all three without even asking. "

Not if it disadvantages big campaign contributors with interests in other automakers. Not JUST Ford, but people that hold good size chunks of Ford stock are going to be watching very closely. The same for other auto makers in the US. Congress critters from districts that have a large automotive presence aren't going to risk their posts by favoring Elon.

[Mitoo Bobsworth]

Token Gesture

This is Trump effectively flipping Musk the bird - "Thanks for the leg up, here's a piece of candy for you. Now sod off & don't steal my limelight." Only room for one toxic ego at the top.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Token Gesture

I think they're both happy with the result: it's not as if Musk actually wans the responsbility for anything, he just wants the limelight and government contracts.

[Mitoo Bobsworth]

Re: Token Gesture

"I think they're both happy with the result"

Apparently not - Musk is reported to be hanging around Mar-A-Lage like a bad smell, and Trump was recently quoted as saying “Elon won’t go home. I can’t get rid of him”

Trump doesn't 'do' happy.

[regreader2011]

Dodgy

DOGE — pronounced “dodgy”.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Dodgy

DOGE — pronounced “dodgy”.

My thought too. The two of them never not working a "dodge" - the "dodgy brothers" (for Australians still standing in it.;)

Draining the swap... replaced with an enormous cesspit whose mephitic contents are now bubbling to the surface.

[Lon24]

Re: Dodgy

Well - at least he didn't call it the Department of Administrative Affairs which had more or less the same remit on the BBC TV spoof of government. Indeed BBC America shouls be broadcasting rolling 24/7 repeats of 'Yes, Minister'.

I'm sure bureaucracy isn't so different t'other side of the pond.

[MacGuffin]

Re: Dodgy

Or “doosh”

[captain veg]

Re: Dodgy

> Or “doosh”

This is something I've never understood. Why is the French word for a shower pejorative in American English?

-A.

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: Dodgy

In America it means something ladies use to "freshen up" their private parts.

[Pascal Monett]

I have a question

How much time is Musk going to be spending away from his cherished personal free speech platform to do some actual governmental work ?

He already doesn't work at Xitter, he doesn't pay his bills and he tries very hard to ignore and/or shut down criticism on the platform he desperately tried to weasel out of buying.

He's going to parade a bit and gather some limelight in his new office, then he'll be back to grumbling, grandstanding and making promises he won't keep on Xitter.

Efficiency ? He has no clue what that word means.

[Chasxith]

Re: I have a question

As that sad clown continues to thrust more and more of himself into the limelight, it appears the only thing he understands involves preening his own ego.

Much like donald, he throws teddy out of the pram when his dumb decisions don't make him popular and/or lose him yet more money.

Maybe they should both fuck off to Mars as "test pilots" for Elmo's rocket?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I have a question

I dunno, the toy ejection from the dems over the last week has been pretty epic!

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: I have a question

Examples?

[MachDiamond]

Re: I have a question

"Maybe they should both fuck off to Mars as "test pilots" for Elmo's rocket?"

Given the success of that rocket so far, YES in big capital letters.

[captain veg]

Re: I have a question

> his cherished personal free speech platform

Amusing, isn't it, that the "free speech absolutist" charges money for a blue tick. Apparently free speech has a price.

-A.

[simonlb]

"provide advice and guidance from outside of government"

So it's a department to make lobbying easier? What could possibly go wrong?

[seven of five]

Re: "provide advice and guidance from outside of government"

Well, nothing, of course. They've just checked with their "consultants", and it will be fine according to them.

[crediblywitless]

The Department Of Goverment Efficiency is going to have two bosses. Irony is over.

[Roj Blake]

Yes, President

DOGE reminds me of when the UK set up the Department of Administrative Affairs back in the 80s. Originally intended to reduce government waste, it instead lurched from crisis to crisis - although it didn't seem to harm the careers of Sir Humphrey Appleby and Jim Hacker.

[heyrick]

Re: Yes, President

"Jim Hacker"

...the puppet dog on CBBC?

[collinsl]

Re: Yes, President

No, that's "Hacker T Dog"

[pig]

Reminds me of Alan Sugar being appointed UK Enterprise Czar

And I expect Musk will have much the same effect, bugger all.

[xyz]

I almost feel sorry for him...

Public servants have been given 3 months to circle the wagons. And they know that "the siege" will only last 4 years. And, anyone above grunt level, is a black belt in obfuscation. And, anyone below "god" status will be a public servant who will say "yes" and go dog slow.

These people have 100s of years of experience in going "meh."

He will be isolated, stewing in a corner, ignored and after 4 years of banging his head off a brick wall will have nothing to show for it, except Donald's wrath.

Mars will look pretty good as a home come 2029.

[ICL1900-G3]

Dog slow?

My dog's really fast.

[Annihilator]

It's somewhat ironic that Trump is complaining about electric cars and immigrants meddling with the election. But somehow plonks Elon into the centre of his campaign.

Let me guess, Elon will suggest less government oversight on tech companies, self-driving cars, and rocket launches as a means to save government money. Wouldn't want safety concerns getting in the way of his company's progress - with that attitude, I have a submarine I'd like to sell him.

There's one primary reason that Trump hasn't put him in charge of a proper governmental department though - he'd be a federal employee and they're required to disclose their assets and also divest any investments relating to their role. Mind you, the president/president-elect managed to swerve that, so who knows these days.

[breakfast]

Doge

I have no doubt the only thing that Musk cares about here is having a tired, ten-year-old meme for a name. The moment I realised that was what I had done I reflexively cringed so hard I was briefly concerned that I would implode into a singularity.

It's possible that Elon Musk is not be the most embarrassing man who has ever lived, but he's got to be a contender.

[renniks]

Re: Doge

Just like his Tesla models spell out S3XY...

[breakfast]

Re: Doge

OH NO!

[HereIAmJH]

Re: Doge

Could be worse. At least it's not DogeX.

[Locomotion69]

Is this the way Trump is telling Musk to get some "political" experience so he (Musk) can become POTUS #48 ?

The horror.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Is this the way Trump is telling Musk to get some "political" experience so he (Musk) can become POTUS #48 ?

He was born in S. Africa, and has only been a US citizen for 20 years or so, so he fails the "natural born citizen" test.

[Locomotion69]

To the American readers: would Trump be able to change that in four years time?

[theAltoid]

no

[heyrick]

I don't think Trump has the numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

[Annihilator]

For the same reason the 2nd amendment will never disappear - you need a 2/3 majority in congress to change that, and even then you need 3/4 of the states to individually ratify it.

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a lot to achieve that, and it seems very unlikely that Trump would try to the extent necessary to achieve it. Trump does have a lot of people supporting him who will do what he wants, but not enough of them to pass an amendment to the Constitution which would be necessary to allow Musk into the office. That is unlikely to change in the next election either. It's also worth considering that most of the people who support Trump unreservedly have ambition of their own and think that supporting Trump is the way to improve their situation. At least some of them would like to be the next holder of the office after Trump leaves it, and they don't want the competition.

Also, if he does find some way of getting to amend the Constitution, why would he do it for Musk's benefit? He would either do it for his own, for example removing the part about not getting to have a third term, or he would make other changes that he cares about. Trump is not loyal to any particular person unless they continue to help him. If we assume that he leaves office in 2028 with the ability to select his successor in the Republican party, he's going to want to use that power to his advantage, and setting things up for one candidate removes that ability. Getting to select the candidate from a number of hopefuls who can all bid for what they can do to get the endorsement is something he'd enjoy much more.

[Anonymous Coward]

By keeping Musk onside Trump ensures xTwitter will act as a propaganda organ for him (and his government).

[Anonymous Coward]

The mainstream media has been the propaganda arm of the democrat party for a LONG time. The Harris campaign was paying for her interviews.

[renniks]

And Fox, Newsmax et al are the propaganda arm of which party?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fox serves the Truth, obviously! Don't you know Fox only tells the Truth the liberals and their reptilian overlords try to hide form you, the hard-working American?

_{/s, because sadly it could really be a honest opinion...}

[Someone Else]

Missing the ob <sarcasm> tag...

[ThatOne]

I do see one? (Spoiler: In the fine print)

[Anonymous Coward]

if any of that bullshit was true, they wouldn't have been sane washing a fucking insane orange criminal twat

[ICL1900-G3]

Really? Proof?

[codejunky]

Hmm

And so it is easy for the monolith that is government to grow and consume more but difficult to slim it down and get it to consume less.

Best of luck to Trump and Musk to try and achieve the very difficult task. If they manage it maybe they can inspire the UK too

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: Hmm

"maybe they can inspire the UK too"

Certainly! Counterexamples are always useful for inspiration.

[the Jim bloke]

Re: Hmm

Its amazing how quiet the Australian republican movement was while Trump was demonstrating how bad a populist demagogue conman could be as a head of state...

[SAdams]

Re: Hmm

Amen! So many of the comments here slagging off Musk etc before the even start. It’s not as if the US, UK or EU governments spend money effectively. I was recently involved in reporting potholes to the local council. Three potholes within a couple metres of road. One was classified as small, one medium, and one large. The large one was declared to large to fix, so that was put on hold for a road resurface. The guys came out to fix the medium one, which had been prioritised, within a few weeks. They closed the road and went to work, but left the small one right next to it. Why? Because they were only authorised to fix the critical one. In effect the same team will need to visit the same 2 metre stretch of road three times. When this was escalated to the council, they saw no problem with the process.

Multiply that issue hundreds of thousands of times across hundreds of departments, and across many countries, and you have the reality of modern government.

I too hope they succeed, and that Britain gets a different government next time around that is also interested in getting stuff done in the real world, rather than entertaining their pet ideologies from university.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Yes, best of luck. It does make sense to put Musk in charge of Tech.

Same logic applies to putting an alleged sex-trafficking nonce in as Attorney General.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Same logic applies to putting an alleged sex-trafficking nonce in as Attorney General."

Wasnt it someone suffering gender dysphoria put in charge of health?

[Ace2]

Re: Hmm

That you would put those two things in the same bucket shows how utterly worthless you are. FOAD.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@Ace2

"That you would put those two things in the same bucket shows how utterly worthless you are. FOAD."

That you cant understand the oxymoron Americans have been living under undermines your ability to determine worth. Rachel Levine has gender dysphoria while Gaetz is accused of something but not shown to be involved in sex trafficking which is also a huge difference. If I understand correctly the probe into the so called accusation is also dropped.

So the worth of reality vs a claim without merit...

I dont know if the guy is right for the role of not but watching you guys cry when your own logic is used against you is funny.

[Someone Else]

Re: Hmm

f I understand correctly the probe into the so called accusation is also dropped.

The probe was dropped because the probe was being done by the House, and according to their rules (which they still seem to follow...imagine that!), the probe can only be done on a sitting member of the House. No wonder he summarily resigned...

So the worth of reality vs a claim without merit...

Uhhh, no.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@Someone Else

"The probe was dropped because the probe was being done by the House, and according to their rules (which they still seem to follow...imagine that!), the probe can only be done on a sitting member of the House. No wonder he summarily resigned..."

And the report can still be released and if he has committed a crime the legal system can still go after him. Which brings us back to this being an allegation. If we believed any allegations thrown out there we end up in a bad place as the metoo movement ended up. Hell Trump wouldnt have been president in 2016 had we believed any old allegation yet the Steele report was shown to be unfounded lies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Q-junky: Gaetz is accused of something but not shown to be involved in sex trafficking

Read up on the Mann (sic) act. (AKA the White-slave traffick act.)

'the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose".'

The reason the investigation has been dropped is because Gaetz quit the House. No other reason.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"The reason the investigation has been dropped is because Gaetz quit the House. No other reason."

And the report can be released and Gaetz is not beyond the justice system if he has actually done something wrong. Just because someone claims someone did something doesnt mean automatically believe them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

His accomplice is doing an 11 stretch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

"And the report can be released and Gaetz is not beyond the justice system if he has actually done something wrong. "

Remind us, who control the house now, Hmm?

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Remind us, who control the house now, Hmm?"

Wasnt the argument that the house isnt pursuing him is because he resigned so they cant? So if there is evidence enough to prove wrongdoing then he can still be pursued by the justice system. If it is just an allegation, which can be made by anyone about anything against anyone, then why would Gaetz be disqualified?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Mike Johnson already calling for the report on Gaetz to be suppressed. What a surprise, hmm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Hmm.. the DOJ looked into this for something like 3 years and got nowhere. Everything is 'sources familiar with' so its all basically hearsay.

Due to the strange setup of the US, if you cross a state line something which isn't a crime in either state becomes a federal crime. If you meet someone in one state and invite them back to your house in the next state over is that sex trafficking? "for any other immoral purpose" is an awfully broad brush. You could be inviting her over the state line to partake in some raw milk or unpasteurised cheese.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Are you suggesting grooming underage girls and paying them to have sex with you and your friends/colleagues/business partners is ok, other AC?

You are Jeffrey Epstein and I claim my $10!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

No, I was suggesting sharing some unpasteurised cheese while crossing a state line with your friends. I was also pointing out how broad this law is and that there are many things you can do to fall foul of it that do not involve sex and the stupidity that crossing an imaginary line on a map which you have zero legal restrictions in crossing suddenly makes something a crime.

Also in a good portion of the US a 17 year old is over the age of consent. Heck in almost 1/3rd of the EU its 14.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

sharing some unpasteurised cheese

[QAnon]

Hmm is this code? Cheese Pizza? Walnut dressing? Highly suspicious.

[/QAnon]

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Vivian Wilson is the new surgeon general? Really?

[MachDiamond]

Re: Hmm

"And so it is easy for the monolith that is government to grow and consume more but difficult to slim it down and get it to consume less."

With more spending, there's a bigger fan club of people that are all for it since they are directly benefited. Cutting back and people losing free stuff isn't popular so they'll rally against it.

[heyrick]

Congress will still decide

Is this the same Congress that is under Republican control with those pulling the strings mostly beholden to the cult of Trump, reinforced by a loaded and equally corrupt Supreme that basically made him a king rather than president? That Congress?

[streaky]

Well DUH

What, you mean the executive branch of the US can't just legislate?

IDK why somebody would write an article like this stating something so plainly obvious.

GOOD NEWS! Trump controls the other two branches of the US govt - whilst I wouldn't expect him to always get everything he wants, I'd imagine he'll get a lot of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! The TDS is strong here

If you are so afraid of what is going to happen to you in the USA, declare asylum and move to Europe.

[codejunky]

Re: Wow! The TDS is strong here

@AC

"If you are so afraid of what is going to happen to you in the USA, declare asylum and move to Europe."

Hang on a moment, what did we Europeans do to deserve this?

[cmdrklarg]

Re: Wow! The TDS is strong here

Wait.... you're not a MAGA 'Murican?

I do hope you're getting compensated for the right wing nutjobbery you spew here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wow! The TDS is strong here

They get to have cake and pop, every 2nd Wednesday of the month, at Tufton St.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wow! The TDS is strong here

Plenty of Trump Dick Sucking at Maralago this week, for sure!

[EvilDrSmith]

But does it have a purpose?

Something like 82 comments so far, and they are nearly all discussions of the individuals concerned and their possible motives.

Practically nothing about whether the US Government budget is too large or not, whether it could or should be cut, etc.

Any of our left-pondian colleagues want to identify themselves as such, and opinion on whether swingeing cuts to the US state, along the lines of what Milei is (trying to) doing in Argentina are feasible? (Independent of the person or persons trying to make them).

Anyone know how much the US has to pay (actual value / % of government spending) to service it's national debt?

[codejunky]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

@EvilDrSmith

I had a speed read over this yesterday-

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/3185622/federal-spending-threat-national-security/

My earlier comment wishing the best of luck to Trump and Musk and maybe inspire the UK was met with "Counterexamples are always useful for inspiration.". Some people are gagging for government no matter how unaffordable.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

Worth noting that the Washington Examiner is generally understood to have a right-wing bias. Précis of the article: right-wingers report that right-wingers want smaller government because that's what right-wingers want. Don't think that falls into the category of "news". If I posted a link to a Guardian piece saying that the rich should pay more taxes, I would fully expect you to point out that "the Guardian would say that, wouldn't they". So here I am.

[codejunky]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

@Hubert Cumberdale

"Worth noting that the Washington Examiner is generally understood to have a right-wing bias."

Of course. But a Guardian piece begging for more tax would be looking at the same problem of a government too big and spending too much (even if thats not how they would interpret the problem)

[Ace2]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

The biggest and growing expenses of the federal government are the mandatory entitlement programs - paying for old folks to eat (Social Security) and get medical care (Medicare).

After that, it’s our $1T/year military-industrial complex.

Good luck with cutting any of those things. They are defended ferociously by their constituents. We got rid of GWB thanks to his idiotic attempt to privatize Social Security; before that it looked like we would be stuck shifting to the right long-term.

Next up is the rest of it, the “discretionary” spending. You can try to nip and tuck things but it’s small potatoes. There isn’t $2T there to save because it doesn’t hardly amount to that in total. (I haven’t looked at the numbers in a while.)

Dept of Ed? Funds schools in rural areas all over America.

Dept of Commerce? Runs the census, which is specifically required by the constitution.

Dept of Energy? Mostly maintains the nuke stockpile. People against gov’t waste tend not to be in favor of nuclear disarmament.

IRS? Every dollar we give to the IRS produces something like $8 in revenue that rich people tried to dodge.

Want to cut regulations to save money? OK. Keep in mind that many of those regulations are there to keep vendors like Twitler from ripping off the government, by overcharging for faulty crap. Or from dumping poison in the river because it’s more profitable that way.

But sure, go after waste, fraud, & abuse. Have fun!

[MachDiamond]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"IRS? Every dollar we give to the IRS produces something like $8 in revenue that rich people tried to dodge."

If the tax code was radically simplified, the cost of the IRS and the whole tax calculation and reporting complex would reduce leading to money better spent elsewhere. I'd prefer that over a super complicated tax code and a lot of money being spent enforcing it.

The States are responsible for education. Full stop. At most, the role of the Federal government should be to head up standards so somebody qualified to graduate high school in Alabama has the same knowledge as somebody graduating in Oregon. Whether those kids can also play a musical instrument or are good in sports might differ but at least the three R's are covered. That could mean that a rural school doesn't have the breadth of courses an affluent city school may have, but can be fine where it counts.

[Ace2]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

The tax code looks the way it does because of (A) giveaways like tax abatement for ‘certain shared-interest mining operations undertaken before 1985,’ and other legacy nonsense; and (B) closing loopholes found by people with expensive tax lawyers. Good luck.

Schools - “full stop”? Ok. When the low-tax-paradise states have to switch to 3 day school weeks to keep the lights on, we’ll see who’s happy and who’s mad.

[MachDiamond]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"Schools - “full stop”? Ok. When the low-tax-paradise states have to switch to 3 day school weeks to keep the lights on, we’ll see who’s happy and who’s mad."

My property tax is due and one of the places that money is supposed to go is schools and I don't have kids. Before free medical care and legal assistance is given to non-citizens that may have come to the country in an unapproved manner, money should go to schools. That's a big responsibility that the state needs to bear rather than needing support from taxpayers a couple of thousand miles away through the taxes they pay.

A better cost saving measure might be multiple grades being taught in the same room, at the same time. Coursework and tests would be grade appropriate. I realize that it's more work for a teacher to keep a syllabus going for a range of ages, but if there aren't that many kids, it's not that hard if the curriculum is in place. There's far less infrastructure required as well. One bonus is kids that have the ability might attempt to learn the material that's a grade or two ahead.

The local schools near me have a 4-1/2 day school week and get out mid-day on Wednesdays. They also bus kids all over the city and the parents pick the kids up from the bus stop outside my house which makes me wonder why those parents can't just drop off and retrieve their little darlin's from school. There's also the odd case that there are no students living near my house so I don't understand why I have to listen to gansta rap from the parent's cars while they wait to pick their kids up.

[collinsl]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

> A better cost saving measure might be multiple grades being taught in the same room, at the same time

OK, so how would you deal with the fact that the higher-grade kids will have heard the entire syllabus over and over for the past few years?

Or are you proposing teaching things by topic to the entire class rather than in built-upon stages? In which case how would you explain complex mathematical theories to a 6-year-old that you're trying to teach 12-year-old learning to?

Here in the UK when I was in school we had two "years" sharing a classroom for things like music lessons, but we didn't do it for fundamental subjects like maths or English or science.

[MachDiamond]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"OK, so how would you deal with the fact that the higher-grade kids will have heard the entire syllabus over and over for the past few years?

Or are you proposing teaching things by topic to the entire class rather than in built-upon stages? In which case how would you explain complex mathematical theories to a 6-year-old that you're trying to teach 12-year-old learning to?"

I am making the suggestion for a rural area with a limited school population. Having a separate teacher for every grade might mean a class size of 5 kids, the rooms to be able to do that and, or course, the admin that having all of those teachers is going to be put in place. Not that the number of administrator will be needed, but there will be an argument that for every so many teachers, there needs to be a certain number of administrator based on averages that don't apply to that region. Fine for the big city, but not in the sticks.

I'm not that worried that the older kids will have heard the syllabus over and over, their course requirements will be more advanced and taught sequentially. Get the younger kids working on something and then move up to teaching the older kids the day's lesson. It's a real balancing act and I don't think it will be easy on the teachers, but it's been done through the ages.

A class with a 6 year span is not at all what I'd suggest. I don't even think that there would be equal spans across K-12 (in the US). 2-3 years might be the most that can be accommodated without a bunch of chaos unless there's a grade with only a couple of students and they can get lumped in with the group that seems the most appropriate. I was never in a science or math class based on grade, but ability. It was typical to have the bulk of a grade in a particular science/math class, but it wasn't a hard and fast rule. I did three years of chemistry in high school (basic, advanced and independent) and took Chem 130 at the local college my 12th year which was a dawdle as I was already far ahead of that, but didn't have the math pre-req to get into Chem 180. I was a grade ahead on math and just sorta even on English mostly since it bored me to death. DEATH, I tell you!

[MachDiamond]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"Next up is the rest of it, the “discretionary” spending. You can try to nip and tuck things but it’s small potatoes. There isn’t $2T there to save because it doesn’t hardly amount to that in total. (I haven’t looked at the numbers in a while.)"

Perhaps there's too much time being spent looking at just one side of the efficiency equation. Government makes many things inefficient just be getting themselves involved. Congress and the President blather on about green energy and solar panels on people's rooftops, but local governments piles on process and fees that double the cost. Building one giant EV charging lot is radically less expensive than building the same number of stalls spread out in a city so there are more locations near to place people might want to visit/shop. It's less about build efficiency and more about the permission and permit process. If the planning process was more flexible and efficient, companies could afford to install more charging locations. There's numerous other examples where the government doesn't need to spend money or could spend far less to get something done. Writing this I thought of several more examples, but it would just get tedious. The TL:DR is that cuts can be made, but also streamlining things. In fact, it might be much easier to do the streamlining that getting the cuts approved.

[heyrick]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"Practically nothing about whether the US Government budget is too large or not"

I have no skin in this nor do I understand American politics much...

...however from a British perspective, central government keeps cutting back. All manner of social services (support for special needs, after school activities, libraries, etc etc etc) are being cut because too expensive. Teaching assistants are bailing because they can make more stacking shelves. Roads are full of potholes, and so on. Yet there's plenty of money to piss away on failed IT projects that will never ever be a success because the requirements change before the ink has dried on the last set of changes due, I would imagine, to the sort of utterly incompetent egotistical power-trip types that end up managing this sort of thing.

Therefore, I would not ask if the budget is too small or too large, I'd first ask "is it being used correctly"? (with any definition of "correctly" that does not involve wasting obscene amounts of money on a thing that's only of benefit to themselves)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

The US government budget is massive and there are several parts of it that could quite easily be cut because the value people receive from it is less than the amount spent on it. Now everyone make a list of where those parts are and we'll cancel the parts that we all agree on and ... it's none. The problem is that, while almost everyone can agree that there are parts of the budget that are wasted or would be better unspent, people can't agree what they are or what to do instead. A rigorous program of austerity could find and, with time, simplify the bureaucracy. To do so properly, you'd have to actually understand what everyone is doing and which offices could be merged or eliminated without too much harm to the regulation they're doing. Undoubtedly, you could find several places to improve things with almost no downside except to the people who are no longer employed there. The difficulty there is that you would have to do boring work for years to find and make those modifications, and at the end, the savings would appear as a rounding error in the budget. People mostly don't bother doing it.

Trump is no exception to this rule. Trump did not claim to be reducing the debt, or you can probably find a quote where he said it once, but it wasn't something he campaigned on. Harris's campaign promises involved giving lots of people lots of free stuff, adding trillions of dollars to the debt. Trump's promises involved giving people different kinds of free stuff plus decreasing taxes massively, increasing the debt by about double that. Neither of them was trying to reduce the debt, and it shouldn't be a surprise that neither of them would have done so. Meanwhile, this Department of Government Efficiency could be the people who go through and find those small bureaucratic improvements that saves a little money, but do I expect that an unofficial department run by Musk will do boring managerial work that takes months to figure out what change needs to be made, years to make the changes so there's no disruption, and ends up saving an amount small enough that, although it's as helpful as it could be, can't be used as a campaign tactic? No, I don't think that will happen. I've seen Musk work before. Chances are that he'll make an announcement like "We've decided not to have a Library of Congress because why do we need the nation's largest library", then get annoyed when it doesn't shut down in a week and quit.

A lot of the US budget is related to entitlement programs, including medical care for certain classes of the population and social security payments to the elderly. While people in many countries think that these are small and would prefer an NHS-style health system, those limited categories are popular enough in the US that they are as difficult to change as it would be to entirely eliminate the NHS. Most countries that have such a system pay for it by having higher tax rates, but not just on the wealthiest people; the median age earner in the US pays a lot less tax than a median-income person in many countries with more comprehensive government services. In the US, increasing taxes on anything except the top 5% is very unpopular, and in Trump's case, those levels and corporations are also promised massive tax cuts, although probably more massive than will actually happen. If you're sticking to what is popular, you have expensive things that nobody will accept being cancelled and you can't get any more money to pay for them. While it is possible to borrow, they're going to solve this problem by borrowing.

[MachDiamond]

Re: But does it have a purpose?

"Practically nothing about whether the US Government budget is too large or not, whether it could or should be cut, etc."

There can't be a government on the planet where cuts couldn't be made and waste eliminated. I have strong doubts that Elon is a good person to work on that. There are also many pitfalls in any approach so it will take a lot of diplomatic skills to get cuts implemented and survive (literally) as well. There will be lots of dark closets that are best left alone and shining a light in them will trigger a very forceful response. To get rid of those will take a very measured approach over a long period of time.

All of that said, somebody that hasn't built their persona on grandstanding will find plenty of low-hanging fruit to harvest which is much safer and productive to do first before hauling out the ladder.

[Howard Sway]

Good luck getting through the mandatory drug testing Elon

"The use, possession, or sale of illegal drugs is incompatible with Federal employment. Employees found to have engaged in the use of illegal drugs or who refuse to be tested when required may be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including removal from Federal service"

[Ace2]

Re: Good luck getting through the mandatory drug testing Elon

Come now. You know those rules only apply to the little people.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Good luck getting through the mandatory drug testing Elon

"Come now. You know those rules only apply to the little people."

The FBI has had to rein in their requirements to get people versed in computers to qualify to be hired. It would seem that the teetotalers aren't as good as the drug crazed hippies.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Good luck getting through the mandatory drug testing Elon

"Employees found to have engaged in the use of illegal drugs or who refuse to be tested when required may be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including removal from Federal service"

There's a place to save money right there. Only drug test people when there is a strong suspicion that they are under the influence and not just pull people at random. Just make the penalties a bit harsher so while there's less of a chance somebody might be caught, if they are, it's really bad. For something such as driving a school bus, random testing is more appropriate since it's not good to find out somebody has a drugs problem after an accident. A clerk in the front office or a library assistant, not so much.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Good luck getting through the mandatory drug testing Elon

*All* Federal employees are subject to enforced random drug testing? What happened to "Land of the Free" and "Innocent unless proven guilty?".

[spold]

Well the crypto good news is...

Trump just appointed Sam Bankman-Fried to be in charge of Crypto.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Well the crypto good news is...

"Trump just appointed Sam Bankman-Fried to be in charge of Crypto."

Great. Ross Ulbricht can head up the DEA.

[Randall Shimizu]

Elon will accomplish a lot

People are underestimating how successful Musk can be. With a Republican majority Trump can pass the legislation Musk will need. Musk can also have Trump use schedule F or to layoff workers. There is probably no reason why unneeded govt workers can be laid off & hire those that are needed. There is also huge manpower savings.can be achieved with AI. Essentially any job functionthat is repetitive can be done with AI. IBM is achieving huge manpower savings with AI.

[martinusher]

Irresistible Force, Meet Immovable Object

One of the problems with government is that it creates Good Jobs for a lot of people. A recent example is the creation, management and enforcement of sanctions. This used to be a bit of a backwater but as the number and complexity grew so did the administrative apparatus for managing them -- and with it the lobbying industry. A recent report put the direct cost about $30 billion a year (this doesn't include indirect costs on companies to ensure compliance) plus many tens of millions for lobbying, both pro and anti.

DOGE is going to collide with Sir Humpfrey. Those of us who are familiar with "Yes, Minister" know how a Department -- in this case the "Department of Administrative Affairs" (a fictional department that actually has a real life analog in the Federal government) -- can easily undermine a politician's best (or worst) intentions. Implementing Schedule 'F', the ability to fire senior civil servants at will (and replace them by party loyalists) won't improve the picture at all.

This is going to be quite a Titanic struggle. I'd rate Musk's chances better if he was creating the government from scratch. As it is he's being handed ULA and asked to make SpaceX out of it. Good Luck with that!

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically yet another layer of bureaucratic deadweight to massage delicate rich egos.

[StudeJeff]

The real power of Doge

There is great potential in Doge successfully cutting government waste, and it won't be because of suggestions to President Trump or Congress.

Dog will likely be posting what it finds on social media, and asking for suggestions, and comments.

This won't be like one of these government reports, such as the "Pig Book" of years gone by, that gets released, gets a lot of attention for a few days, and is then forgotten.

Doge will likely be posting what it finds regularly, daily or weekly, and ten's of thousands, if not millions of people will be following and commenting on the posts.

Radio talk show hosts will be talking about the latest examples of government waste, talking heads and podcasters will be talking about them and picking out the ones they find most egregious.

And regular people will notice, and demand their Congresscritters do something.

I mean really... did we HAVE to give Bowdoin College $3.9 million of taxpayers hard earned money to determine what makes goldfish feel sexy?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The real power of Doge

They've been doing that for a long time. You point out some small program with an easily mocked purpose, shout out the large amounts of money, and let people draw in the lines. If you were completely successful, you would then cancel funding for that program and crow about it. Everyone watching thinks you've done something to improve efficiency. In the end, you've saved about 0.4 seconds of the budget and cancelled something that probably had a better reason for existing. But now you're a winner, you don't have to make any complicated decisions about, for example, changing something that's very expensive but some people actually like it and would get angry if it was canceled.

Scientific research is a frequent target. A lot of the little parts involved in important research look pointless when you consider them in isolation. Why are we messing about with the visual responses of shrimp? Well, we're doing it to better understand neurotransmitters. Why are we messing about understanding neurotransmitters in shrimp? Because they work similarly to neurotransmitters in other species. Why are we doing that ... five or six more times? To find treatments for a number of diseases of the nervous system in humans. But if we only look at the part where they have a second year student who doesn't get paid flash moving lights in front of shrimp, it looks pointless.

[Ace2]

Re: The real power of Doge

Like: “Building robotic squirrels? What a dumb idea!”

They were trying to make a robot that would attract rattlesnake strikes, to figure out when and why snakes strike. To keep people safe!

[MachDiamond]

Re: The real power of Doge

"Doge will likely be posting what it finds regularly, daily or weekly, and ten's of thousands, if not millions of people will be following and commenting on the posts."

... and in no time, contracts are being taken out on Elon and Vivek.

The bigger the "rice bowl", the more dangerous it is to talk about it and deadly to break it.

[Philo T Farnsworth]

Elon should remember how DJT treated other immigrants.

This old Trump, he played one

He played Elon like a drum

With a knick-knack appointment whack,

Throw the DOGE a bone,

Elon Musk came limping home.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Elon should remember how DJT treated other immigrants.

"Elon Musk came limping home."

I'll put a wager on Elon taking his ball and flouncing home when he doesn't get his way.

This job is going to take an enormous amount of political tact and maneuvering. Looking at the big print one-sheeter of Elon's skills, I don't see those anywhere.

[Orv]

I would not necessarily expect the filibuster to stand -- it's just a Senate rule and can be changed with a majority vote.

However, each of the departments Musk would like to target has a constituency who is sure THEIR favorite department isn't the wasteful one, it's all the other ones that should be cut. Representatives who are not in safe districts, and Senators who are in purple states, can be expected to resist cuts. It's not likely to be a straight party-line vote for most of these proposals. (This is why NASA's SLS keeps staggering forward -- contractors for it are spread across a bunch of congressional districts, making it essentially cancel-proof, because no one wants to be the Representative who voted to take jobs away from their voters.)

[steviebuk]

Its one big grift

Elon will use the department to hawk his coins. Trump will use 4 years to play lots of golf (while making the secret service pay for the hotel rooms again making him money) and use the house to launder money to pay off all his debts. Other people will be doing the important parts, just a shame he's got nut jobs in the positions now. It was well known he wasn't interested in any of it when he first got in, it will be the same again as he just used this to avoid prison.

It appear 51% of American's are idiots. A military vet said in some comments I read "I hope no one ever says "Thank you for your service" to me ever again, as they've just shit on my service by voting Trump in".

[Fruit and Nutcase]

High IQ

"Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy are asking Americans who are “high-IQ small-government revolutionaries” and willing to work over 80 hours a week to join their new Department of Government Efficiency – at zero pay."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/14/elon-musk-trump

It was not all that long ago that the call went out from Downing Street for 'weirdos and misfits' to join in the shake up of the UK Civil Service... That worked out well.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/02/calling-weirdos-boris-johnsons-chief-aide-dominic-cummings-begins/

[s. pam]

"Congress will still decide" -- utter boll lox

When Trumplestilkskin 2.0 is in office, as despot and overlord, he will immediately disband HoR + Senate and replace them with his minions.

Doubt me? Don't as the unGreat Orange Buffoon will be using the Gilead (was: USA) constitution as bum wipe soon enough!

[spold]

DOGE reviews DOGE

...promptly dismantles itself in a puff of efficiency.

[Cruachan]

Always funny to see Musk talking about a waste of money when he bought one of the world's most recognisable brands and renamed it "X", which of course no one calls it. At least he decided the name himself though, wonder how much the coloured pencil consultants scammed Standard Life Aberdeen for to become ABRDN.

[Groo The Wanderer]

It serves to groom Musk to be Drumpf's replacement after his last Constitutionally-allowed term...

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Cromwell

Elon Musk is not America’s new king. But he might be its new Thomas Cromwell

John Naughton

...he made himself indispensable to Trump, and therein lies what may come to be his problem. Narcissists do not like to be under an obligation to anyone, no matter how useful they have been. Thomas Cromwell made himself indispensable to Henry VIII in the 1530s and – as viewers of Wolf Hall: The Mirror and the Light are soon to discover – ultimately that was not a great career move. History may not repeat itself, but this time, as Mark Twain is supposed to have said, it might just rhyme.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/16/elon-musk-donald-trump-us-election