back to article Want advice from UK government website about tax 'n' stuff? Talk to the chatbot

From the department of "this will go well" comes confirmation UK government is trialling an experimental chatbot with 15,000 business users, who can use it to ask questions about tax and available support. At present, the chatbot, which is a tool built using OpenAI's GPT-4 technology, has been linked to 30 gov.uk business …

  1. b0llchit Silver badge
    FAIL

    I wonder who will be liable when the chatbot gives you illegal advice...

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      I don't have time to be on the phone, I've got IMPORTANT stuff to do, so I'll use my chatbot to talk to the government chatbot.

      (I mistyped one of those as chatboy. I'll get myself a chatgirl then. Premium rate AI phone lines?)

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Who is liable if the person on the phone gives you bad advice?

        The IRS phone answering agents in the colonies will only read you precisely what's on the form in front of you - because anything else might be legal advice.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      The user…

      Any one who has been using the HMRC portal will know it has clearly carried the “beta” label for many years…

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, if you get to talk to a chatbot-in-training, can you ask to speak to a senior chat-bot if you are not satisfied with the answers?

    Used to work with humans.... :)

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "Used to work with humans"

      Only if there were sufficiently senior humans left in the business.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From the department of "this will go well"

    Isn't that just government in general? It did make me chuckle though.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If they made the UK's tax law much simpler then the sort of people who can't afford tax accountants wouldn't need advice.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This has been one of my arguments and annoyances for years. Tax law should be extremely simple and be no more than a few pages. You earn x you pay y. Your company earns x it pays y. No exceptions such as paying fees to a subsidiary in another country to use the name. No offsetting your personal tax on artwork depreciation or any depreciation. You lost money on it then tough shit. You want to off shore money. No problem but before that transaction goes through I hope you can prove you paid tax on it.

      The reason no political party has ever really tried to deal with it is because nearly every political party and politician uses the same tax loopholes themselves. The same can also be said of tenants rights. Asking landlords to vote on tenant rights is like asking cats to criminalise knocking random stuff off tables (best analogy I could come up with).

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        So your local petrol station sells for £1.35/litre. It pays £1.25/litre to Esso for the petrol. Does it pay 25% on £1.35 income or 25% on (£1.35-£1.25) = 10p profit ?

        The Hermes store on Oxford St sells a handbag for £5000, it pays Hermes-France £4999 for the bag. So it pays 25% of £1 .

        You could have a tax law which says - don't take the piss you rich thieving bastard (only in Latin) but that's why the tax law isn't written on a Post-It

        1. MatthewSt Silver badge

          Exactly, because the alternative is that you have import/export tariffs on _everything_ (products _and_ services). How can the tax law determine whether the money being sent abroad is a legitimate transaction or one to avoid paying tax in the country? Microsoft sell software/services in this country, but very little of the "cost" of that comes from the work undertaken in this country. (Yes, I know they should be paying more than they do, but how do you describe that legally).

          Not to mention there are certain parts of the tax law that are historic (so you'd need to review and potentially vote on each piece to work out whether it's still necessary) and there are some that are there because taxes (or lack of) are designed to discourage (or encourage) certain behaviours. For example we have [S]EIS that is meant to encourage investment in small risky startups. We have gift aid that is meant to encourage donating to charity. Even pensions are a tax "workaround" so do you want to abolish those as well in your simple tax regime?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          You make a very good point actually which is where we I think should start looking at revenue as an indicator of tax burden. The way I see it and I might be completely wrong here but if you are selling 10,000 £5000 Hermes bags that's a revenue of 50,000,000 and a profit of 10,000. Clearly something is wrong with this calculation. Therefore for a business to operate it must have a minimum profit to revenue percentage ratio. That would put an end to the shifting of profits in this way.

          1. SundogUK Silver badge

            "Therefore for a business to operate it must have a minimum profit to revenue percentage ratio."

            We call this communism and it doesn't work.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              We call this communism and it doesn't work.

              oh it DOES work. For some ;)

          2. Headley_Grange Silver badge

            You've not made any profit because you have to pay people and the minimum wage in the UK is about £24k a year. You'd have to sell 14 bags an hour just to cover the wages of one employee. And what about that Oxford St shop? Where's the rent and rates coming from. It's obvious to anyone that there's something wrong with this business and it should be investigated for some kind of fraud.

            1. khjohansen

              Profit!

              <sarcasm> Those "operating costs" are perfectly legal business expenses, and therefore deductible </sarcasm>

  5. Homo.Sapien.Floridanus

    Prompt: I came across some money and want to use it to start a business. How do I proceed?

    Taxbot: where’d you get the money from?

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Chatbot, draft me a contract that's guaranteed to be outside IR35.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      That’s simple, it’s called an employment contract; HMRC don’t want individuals and small businesses muscling in on the big SI’s…

      But if you really insist here’s an employment contract with an umbrella company.

  7. Howard Sway Silver badge

    Talk to the chatbot

    It will be the same experience as all the useless chatbots set up by companies like my energy and phone suppliers have implemented : unnecessary for simple queries, because you can just get the answers quickly by reading the FAQ page on their website, and completely unable to help with anything more complex because it's not been trained on anything other than their website.

    I'm sure everybody frustrated by having to wait hours to get through to HMRC on the phone will be thrilled that the money has been spent on this crap rather than employing more trained staff to help them more quickly : like the waste of time customer service bots, the most common question is likely to be "how can I talk to a human who can answer the questions that you can't answer?"

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Re: Talk to the chatbot

      About a dozen years ago I had some concerns about my (paper) tax return due to having just gone freelance and got a share option payout from my old company a year after I'd left. In those days there was a tax office in the town and as I was passing it one day I went in. There was a woman on what I thought was reception, so I asked if I could make an appointment to talk to someone about filling in my tax return. "What's the problem" she asked. I explained it, she asked me a few questions and told me what to do. She wrote down the refs on the tax form for me on the back of her card - she was one of the tax inspectors. She told me I could come back and she, or whoever was on the desk, would check it for me before I submitted it. Gobsmacking service. Of course, that office is long closed, but my tax is much simpler now and the HMRC online filing service seems pretty good for my needs but if you need advice it's plain wrong that you have to wait hours for someone on the phone.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder if their chatbot will be able to handle "txt tlk" like wot the yoof spk...

  9. teebie

    "HMRC directed us to the Department of Science, Innovation and Technology (DSIT) for comment. DSIT has yet to respond."

    Why? It's HMRC's chatbot

  10. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    Hello I'm Clippy

    You owe us LOADS of money. LOADS. Dont argue, just pay.

  11. Anon the mouse
    WTF?

    Experimental forever

    I wonder if the chatbot will remain forever experimental, like Universal Credit still being in Beta after 14 years.

  12. IGotOut Silver badge

    In their defence...

    ...from reading this, all it is doing is redirecting you to a webpage, within the government website, then it seems a decent use of "AI".

    If it starts trying to be much more than that, then that's where problems arise.

  13. Horizontal

    Can't be any worse...

    An AI chatbot really can't be any worse then speaking to anyone at the tax office... Or can it ?!

    1. tfewster

      Re: Can't be any worse...

      In my experience, once you get through to someone then they're very good - helpful and thorough.

      But the long phone queues and slow responses to emails or letters are still painful

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Advanced Clippy (beta)

    “Wow, looks like your tax affairs are in a right state.

    Would you like to plead now, or wait for the Baliffs?”

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    chatbot chatbot on the wall

    Q: how can I optimise my tax expediture and not get into jail?

    A: is that you Elon? Yes / No to proceed

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    goode olde days

    when I was young and hopeless about tax, I went to a appropriately gloom tax office (1930s industrial-style architecture), waited less than 30 min, if I remember correctly, under dim, buzzing glow-tubes and then walked up to a school-type desk in the big room, one of many such school-type desks in that room with usually two humans by the desk facing each other and apparently engaged in some sort of interaction. And then I had my, rather trivial, problem reasonably patiently explained by a human employee of the HMRC. Actually, despite a shabby format of that place, the experience felt quite.. reassuring. Like a meeting with an abstract concept of 'the state', only face-to-face. That was not so long ago, only in... around 1995, omg.

    Obviously with virtual assistants we're now only half-way there, it shouldn't be too difficult to merge plastic shell with a chip, remember the job centre in that movie, elysium, eh. The future's bright, the future's... well, not orange, but a merger between three and vodafone, cause it is good for competition and consumers.

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