back to article Arecibo telescope might have failed because of weak sockets

The collapse of the 305-meter telescope at Arecibo Observatory in 2020 is being attributed to zinc creep – slow deformation due to stress – in the telescope's cable spelter sockets, according to a committee report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. This effect may also have been accelerated by …

  1. _Elvi_
    Joke

    Obligatory Beatle referance

    ".. Are you sure he's earthed..?

    I wonder if copper conductors from the cable body, direct to ground would have mitigated some of the induced potentials?

  2. Ace2 Silver badge
    Joke

    Spelter? I hardly know ‘er!

  3. Not Yb Bronze badge

    Inspector: "Zinc appears to be coming out of the sockets over time"

    Management: "Fixing it would cost a ton of money, and we have almost no budget for maintenance anyway."

    Looks like another case of lack of preventive maintenance budget leading to significant failure later.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Accountants: won. Everyone else: lost.

    2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Looks like another case of lack of preventive maintenance budget leading to significant failure later.

      And looks like another case of trying to desperately pretend it was anything but that.

      1. ThatOne Silver badge

        > trying to desperately pretend it was anything but that

        It sounds indeed like that. Because (AFAIK) most of the time Arecibo was used as just another passive radio telescope, so most of the time there was no "unique powerful electromagnetic radiation environment", not any more than at the George Washington bridge. Besides we would had noticed by now if strong radar radiation destroys metals...

        Why did it fail despite a safety factor above two? Much likely because of potential initial building defects, and the lack of maintenance: The tropical environment is very aggressive.

    3. TReko Silver badge
      Alert

      Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

      To me Arecibo is a monument to what's wrong with the modern world.

      A great instrument bequeathed to us. But we failed to maintain it because science is now run by bureaucrats.

      And have we fixed it? No. Instead we are opening a BS educational centre: The name speaks for itself:

      "NSF Arecibo Center for Culturally Relevant and Inclusive Science Education, Computational Skills, and Community Engagement "

      1. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

        Re: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

        There was a major problem with maintaining it, as the towers and cables that the dish was suspended from hadn't been designed with maintenance in mind. It was impossible to remove even a single cable to replace it, as that would increase the load on the remaining cables beyond a safe margin. The towers themselves were also crumbling. It would have needed a vastly expensive engineering solution to support the dish while the cables and towers were replaced, well beyond the likely cost of building a replacement from scratch, and there was no budget for that.

        1. Not Yb Bronze badge

          Re: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

          Yes, that was pretty much my understanding, that any actual repair would involve rebuilding anchor towers around it and rebuilding the central antenna.

          Aside from maybe beamcasting messages at various stars, there are much better ways of doing the same thing now.

  4. DoctorNine

    If memory serves

    I am almost certain that there was a German punk band named 'Electroplasticity' back in the day. Although I may just be misremembering pieces of Japanese electro-punk brutality. The zinc in my memory sockets has probably been oozing out over time. There's nothing for it. Wouldn't be surprised if it all comes crashing down soon.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: If memory serves

      I was having an argument with a colleague last week - as she wanted to play Christmas music in the office. I said you can only play a Christmas tune if it's 'Merry Christmas Motherfucker'. A "song" I had invented on the spot. But curiousity got the better of me, and so I checked to see if someone else had had the idea first. A quick check on Apple Music suggests that at least 8 bands had beaten me to it.

      Also, if you need Christmas metal - you need Christopher Lee (link to Youtube

      Christopher Lee made a metal album, aged 91. Followed it up with a Christmas single, and another metal album the year after.

      1. Killing Time

        Re: If memory serves

        'Also, if you need Christmas metal'

        There will also always be 'Never let the Bells End' (fnarr,fnarr) by The Darkness...

        1. FIA Silver badge

          Re: If memory serves

          Just let them ring peace.

  5. LenG

    Zinc Creep - never

    This is clearly sabotage by advanced units of the approaching Vogon constructor fleet so that we won't see them coming.

    1. Homo.Sapien.Floridanus

      Re: Zinc Creep - never

      Don’t be silly, everybody in the universe knows there is no such thing as Vogons.

      - El Chupacabrea

      1. vogon00

        Re: Zinc Creep - never

        "no such thing as Vogons."

        I beg to differ....

    2. CA Dave

      Re: Zinc Creep - never

      No need to worry about Vogons or their horrendous poetry. All that is needed for defense is a small dog.

  6. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Failure in 3,2,1...

    the NSF Arecibo Center for Culturally Relevant and Inclusive Science Education

    Wow. Science needs to be Culturally Relevant and Inclusive? Science just is.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      Truly an incredibly dumb name. This reeks of someone's hobby horse and pork barrel.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        The telescope isn't going to be rebuilt. No scientist is ever going there again. It's too far out of the way to be a tourist destination.

        They presumably need to keep some sort of 'science facility' there to keep the lease/avoid remediation costs

        So put up a birdbox and call it a wildlife habitat

        1. Grunchy Silver badge

          Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

          “No scientist is ever going there again.”

          I wouldn’t be too sure. For example: I recently read a contemporary review of Darwin’s earthworm treatise, and am genuinely pleased to see on Google Earth that his sloped stony field behind the house is all still there pretty much as he had described.

          (Makes one curious for a visit and dig around amongst the buried rocks for some of them Darwin Worms, best baiters ever. Perhaps next springtime?)

          https://books.google.ca/books?id=GiIDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&rview=1&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
            Coat

            Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

            Grunchy,

            If only you'd thought to look on Google Earthworm - think how much more interesting things you might find...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

          ... too far out of the way to be a tourist destination.

          And then there's the new presdident asshole elect ...

          He is so fond of Puerto Rico.

          .

          1. Ghostman

            Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

            And then there's the new president asshole elect ... (fixed the spelling for you)

            He is so fond of Puerto Rico.

            You do remember that Trump had over 5 million more votes than Harris, won more than twice as many states, and 86 more electoral votes than Harris.

            One good indicator of how voters did not want her as president was that Trump took the early lead and Harris never came close.

      2. david 12 Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        This reeks of someone's hobby horse and pork barrel.

        But perhaps not in the way you meant. Named to protect science from cuts.

      3. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        They forgot to add, "and Supercomputing AI Blockchain Quantum Cryptography".

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      I'm sure the new Trump Administration will support something with a name like that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        It will be up to the new head of the NSF = RFK Jr

      2. WUStLBear82

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        It's in Puerto Rico, where Trump won't even acknowledge he's the Head of State, and Republicans today rarely acknowledge was conquered by one of their party.

      3. Irongut Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        Culturally Relevant Science - God created the Earth in 6 days, it is roughly 6.5k years old and evolution is wrong...

        They should be fine.

        /s

    3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      "Arecibo Center for Culturally Relevant and Inclusive Science Education"

      They didn't even manage to make it a recursive algorithm

    4. rg287 Silver badge

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      Wow. Science needs to be Culturally Relevant and Inclusive? Science just is.

      Science has always been incredibly politicised, because humans are politicised. It is true that just as 2+2 = 4, so the world will get on and science will happen without us. Humans do not need to believe evolution or gravity for it to be true.

      Nonetheless, it is a fallacy to believe that science as done by humans is neutral, objective or apolitical - the canonical extreme example being the pseudoscience of the Nazi's Racial Theories, which claimed (via many papers and journals) to have observed a strict and scientific hierarchy of the human race. Or the historic persecution of "unacceptable" science by the Vatican. The Catholic Church was always a major patron of science and engineering - provided you didn't challenge religious orthodoxies (like the Earth being the centre of creation). Such persecution resulted in self-censorship and the suppression of research.

      Or we could consider the way in which women have been traditionally excluded from the sciences - forced to publish under male pseudonyms, or having credit taken by male colleagues. Not to mention the inherent racism in mid-20th century science where European and American scientists ignored science from Asia or Africa as being inferior, despite there being a deal of seminal work done. The Jantar Mantar astronomical park in Jaipur was easily on a par with 18th century European naked eye astonomy (notwithstanding that they didn't have the lens grinding technology for telescope astronomy).

      And now we're about to watch Trump implement Schedule F for any civil servant whose face doesn't fit, defund NOAA, privatise the National Weather Service, "drill, drill, drill" in the Arctic and generally inhibit any science he doesn't like.

      The fact that this center is in the buildings that formerly supported a world-leading scientific instrument which was allowed to fall into disrepair by political indifference should surprise noone (the fact that it's collapse was not met by immediate and bi-partisan calls for rebuilding in Congress is a damning indictment of US discourse. Someone should tell Trump that China has a better one - that might get his interest!).

      I agree entirely though that even if what you're doing is outreach to kids and encouraging participation by minority groups - particularly in environmental sciences (highly culturally relevant to small Caribbean islands) and "human-centered computing and data science", it's a fucking dreadful name. Utter word soup.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        "Science has always been incredibly politicised, because humans are politicised."

        VIEWS surrounding science are politicized, but science itself aims at getting to core truths. Governments can argue all day long about the value of Pi or the law of gravitation, but whatever they have to say doesn't change the science one whit.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

        "The Catholic Church was always a major patron of science and engineering"

        Only when that science can be used to reinforce revealed doctrine. If that science is counter to their beliefs and traditions, people will be made to suffer. Those old stone cathedrals are amazing echo chambers.

    5. The Bobster

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      CRISECSCE? Snappy

      Branded covfefe mugs available in the gift shop.

    6. IceC0ld

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      I was reading that trying to spot the acronym :o)

      then, upon discovering no such thing, MY mind went instantly to the ElReg acronym of choice - T.I.T.S.U.P.

      T - elescope

      I - n

      T - he

      S - and

      U - nusual

      P - ractice

      =====

      T - he

      I - nternational

      T - elescope

      S - topped

      U - ploading

      P - ictures

    7. TheWeetabix Bronze badge

      Re: Failure in 3,2,1...

      Then the acronym would be “NFS Arecibo S + C2” which isn’t nearly as catchy.

  7. david 12 Silver badge

    Zinc

    Putting aside the scientific interest, an obvious alternative for the wire terminations (spelter socket) would be to use a potted epoxy bond instead of a potted zinc bond

    1. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Zinc

      I think there are bigger problems with the telescope now. But you're welcome to try.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Zinc

        Finding a solution to a newly discovered problem is irrelevant? There are jobs for you in QA at Boeing, Microsoft and numerous other large corporations.

        1. Not Yb Bronze badge

          Re: Zinc

          The forces involved would seem to be way beyond any epoxy bond. The central antenna system is said to have weighed 900 tons. The cables would be under significantly more tension than that.

          Even modern epoxy isn't likely to be a solution to that particular problem.

  8. David 132 Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    Zinc spelting?

    ...or metal fatigue from having Sean Bean and Pierce Brosnan hanging off the central antenna?

    (The icon represents an EMP-blast-immune helicopter, obviously.)

    1. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

      Re: Zinc spelting?

      Bastard.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Zinc spelting?

        Zinc Spelting would be a good Bond villain name

    2. Annihilator
      Thumb Up

      Re: Zinc spelting?

      "For England, James?"

  9. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Coat

    I saved some on the zinc order. No-one will know.

    "Electric current flowing through zinc "

    Well there goes my high school science education. I'm pretty sure the teacher said the current flows on the outside of the conductor.

    =====> That's me off to go and rewire the plugs on my appliances in the wake of new scientific discoveries.

    1. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

      Re: I saved some on the zinc order. No-one will know.

      "I'm pretty sure the teacher said the current flows on the outside of the conductor."

      That's the skin effect. Generally only applies with RF rather than DC, as was probably the problem here.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: I saved some on the zinc order. No-one will know.

        "Generally only applies with RF rather than DC, as was probably the problem here."

        High currents will flow more towards the outside of a conductor. I sat down with a college prof after a class and he ran me through the math. I have done a lot of work in audio and the "audiophiles" believe a lot of strange things about "skin-effect" which has zero science behind those beliefs.

        There can be tiny current flows that change material properties over time which is why sacrificial anodes are used in water heaters and marine applications. Was the Arecibo antenna transmitting? I can't even remember the sorts of science that was done there. If they were just receiving, I wouldn't see RF being an issue. The signals would have been so small.

        1. Not Yb Bronze badge

          Re: I saved some on the zinc order. No-one will know.

          Yeah, at audio frequencies the skin effect is either negligible, or "no don't put those across your tongue".

    2. david 12 Silver badge

      Re: I saved some on the zinc order. No-one will know.

      Skin depth depends on conductivity. It is significantly deeper on steel wires than on copper conductors. In this case, they are talking about cable termination, so the current would be flowing through the cast-zinc layer: even if it only causes migration of the skin, that might have caused deep cracks.

  10. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    Alien

    Electric currents?

    Who where they transmitting to?

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Alien

      Re: Electric currents?

      I for one, will not resist our new Alien Overlords

  11. Bebu sa Ware
    Coat

    "The NSF Arecibo Center for Culturally Relevant and Inclusive Science Education"

    They [NSF] really have not read the room, have they?

    Culturally Relevant and Inclusive is definitely not going to cut any mustard with the new regime.

    The Centre for the Celebration of the Benefits of US Imperialism Investment* (to Puerto Ricans) might garner more support from the mainland.

    They could more usefully fill the old dish with water for water sports. ;)

    Welcome to the brave sad new world.

    * the abolition of the Section 936 federal tax break which encouraged actual investment was on the Clinton administration's watch. Puerto Rico has its own contentious tax breaks which only encourage Americans to move there and push up real estate prices. Perhaps Arecibo could be redeveloped as luxury Condos?

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: "The NSF Arecibo Center for Culturally Relevant and Inclusive Science Education"

      "Perhaps Arecibo could be redeveloped as luxury Condos?"

      Maybe some cult will buy it believing that it focuses cosmic truth.

  12. jpennycook
    Black Helicopters

    electric conspiracy

    There are so many videos on YouTube about how only electricity is real - the idea of electroplasticity bringing down the telescope that we used to send transmissions to aliens will just electrify their claims!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ready, steady, eddy

    > a unique and powerful radio telescope environment, capable of inducing current in the cables at some level.

    What does "a unique and powerful radio telescope environment" even mean? It listened to the faintest of radio signals so they wouldn't induce any meaningful current. It didn't transmit so there is no chance of inducing a current there.

    Take that away and you're left with a suspended steel structure, just like many bridges or stadium roofs, and similarly subject to wind, rain and electrical storms.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Ready, steady, eddy

      It was also a radar, used to image the surface of Venus. Don't know how often it was run in this mode though

      1. Apocalypso - a cheery end to the world

        Re: Ready, steady, eddy

        > It was also a radar, used to image the surface of Venus. Don't know how often it was run in this mode though

        Thanks for the correction.

        I would like to think that this generated very little current in the structure, simply because that would be a waste of power that could otherwise be used imaging Venus etc. and scientists usually try hard to avoid that kind of inefficiency.

        1. Not Yb Bronze badge

          Re: Ready, steady, eddy

          Avoiding currents in a cable suspended across a transmitting dish seems to me pretty close to impossible.

    2. Bill Gray

      Re: Ready, steady, eddy

      It was used for radar imaging/ranging of asteroids and a few planets. Transmission power was about 900 kW at 2380 MHz before Hurricane Maria downgraded it ~350 kW.

      The time used for such was a small fraction of the total telescope time. But we did get a fair amount of data from it, and Arecibo is still missed by the planetary defense community.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Ready, steady, eddy

        > the planetary defense community.

        I want them to have a really cool logo

        And possibly silver lycra suits

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Ready, steady, eddy

          "And possibly silver lycra suits"

          Female Extra terrestrials?

  14. Valeyard

    Goldeneye

    I heard the brits had sent their top double-o agent who caused all sorts of chaos to the telescope but he's a maverick who gets results and it's to be expected

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Goldeneye

      But he took a Russian mail-order bride with him so he's ok

    2. Korev Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Goldeneye

      > I heard the brits had sent their top double-o agent who caused all sorts of chaos to the telescope but he's a maverick who gets results and it's to be expected

      If they'd have shaken the telescope and not stirred it then they wouldn't have these problems...

  15. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    So actually checking on the state of them wasn't considered? Just relying on a meagre safety factor of 2?

    1. Not Yb Bronze badge

      They even added a few cables and an additional antenna to it in the 90s, so who knows if they got the math right then either.

  16. Grinning Bandicoot

    Free Lunch and Manna

    Well we can defer that check to next year. That isn't in the maintenance schedule and has never been in the schedule. We'll get back to you on it..

    It was abandoned in all but truth!

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