Your air fryer might be snitching on you to China UK consumer champion Which? wants you to know that your air fryer might be spying on you and sharing your data with third parties for marketing purposes. The perhaps not-so-surprising findings from the buyer's friend are that smart devices in general are engaged in surveillance of their owners, and that data collection often …
Eddie:
I'm waiting. I can wait all day if necessary.
Zaphod Beeblebrox:
Computer, if you don't open that exit hatch pretty damn pronto, I shall go straight to your major data banks with a very large axe and give you a reprogramming you will never forget. Capisco?
[pause]
Zaphod Beeblebrox:
Okay. Get the axe.
I don’t know why I would want to connect my air fryer, hair dryer, TV etc. to my phone in the first place. When I’m shopping, anything that says “smart” is to me what garlic, sunlight and a cross are to a vampire and I avoid it like the plague. The Samsung watch I have asks for all sorts of permissions on the phone which I deny it and then block it from any network connection with a firewall on my phone.
The problem with blocking all access on a smartwatch is that it turns it into... a watch. A very expensive, less legible, high maintenance, short lifespan and environmentally unfriendly shocker of a watch.
If you're going to do all that, just buy a normal non-smart watch. Otherwise it's a very expensive solution to a problem you don't have.
Er. How on earth can something on your wrist measure blood pressure? You need a cuff on your arm to do that, as that is designed to stop the flow of blood, then gradually let it flow back and measure the pressure changes. The best a watch can do is tell you your blood pressure has changed, but not from what to what. When I stand up I can tell you that without a watch.
My son has a smart watch. It tells him he has a message (as does his phone). It means he can lift his arm to read it, rather than getting his phone out of his pocket to lift it up to read it. Oh, and it also tells the time.
My review: bag of shite.
Er. How on earth can something on your wrist measure blood pressure?
My review: bag of shite.
Well; as you seem given to making grand assumptions without investigating, you'll forgive me if I don't give your 'review' much credence.
Er. How on earth can something on your wrist measure blood pressure? ...
How? The answer, in my limited experience, is "poorly". Off by about 10-15%. But the inexpensive Chinese device I played around with did try and even though it was not very accurate, it did seem to change in the correct direction when the BP changed. And it did get the pulse rate right, This is not, BTW, all that unusual in my experience. Most of the digital healthcare devices (scales, thermometers, blood glucose meters and such) that have tried are perhaps a bit easier to use than their mechanical equivalents. But their accuracy and repeatability often leaves something to be desired,
My question would be, what the hell is the point in sending my (inaccurate) blood pressure and pulse rate off to Shanghai? Good luck on finding anyone crazy enough to pay you for it, Seems to me that money is being wasted on bandwidth, servers, server maintenance, etc that might better be spent on booze, drugs, lottery rickets and strumpets.
==== On a more serious note
There are wrist worn blood pressure cuffs that can produce pretty much the same results as conventional upper arm cuffs when used properly. And they are much less aggravating to put on and take off. But there's a caveat. Thanks to gravity, blood pressure is higher below the heart and lower above. Substantially so at greater distances above/below. When using a wrist cuff, one has to hold it at heart level. Don't ask me how one corrects for that when measuring with a wrist watch because I don't know.
I actually use it as well as a watch for reading messages when my phone would be inappropriate or inaccessible. Also if i walk away from my phone it buzzes to warn me. I preferred my Pebble watch with e-ink screen and insane battery life but that stopped charging so I needed a replacement.
:The problem with blocking all access on a smartwatch is that it turns it into... a watch. A very expensive, less legible, high maintenance, short lifespan and environmentally unfriendly shocker of a watch.:
When those watches first came out, they were more of a display device. I was contemplating getting one so I could see who was calling without needing to fish the phone out of my pocket. That can look a bit, hmmmm, odd, we'll go with odd, while driving. With all of the biometric stuff they do now and the need for an "app" that stores ..... everything with some software company what has a very suspicious EULA and privacy policy, I'll pass. Don't need.
” When those watches first came out, they were more of a display device“
For most intents and purposes, they still are. They do some standalone stuff for sure, but mostly they just mirror data from a tethered phone.
Mine has 32GB onboard. Why I have no clue, as I use it regularly across a wide range of apps, I certainly don’t feel as if I’m missing anything, yet currently only 6.3GB is in use and that includes more than 4GB for the OS.
"Mine has 32GB onboard. Why I have no clue, as I use it regularly across a wide range of apps"
My BT headset can lose connection or fuzz out so even being less than 1m away doesn't guarantee a watch and phone will stay connected. When they aren't, the watch can still monitor and record your heart rate, check your blood sugar levels and sense how much you may have had to drink. All very useful, especially in combination, for your health provider to get a hold of.
I’m talking specifically about the usefulness of 32GB, not the watch in general.
I’ve had an Apple Watch since the Gen 2; every single one has come with far more storage than I could possibly want or need. Sure I can load music onto it for when I go for a run which will fill up a couple of GBs if I go nuts, but apps are generally in the MB range and beyond music I can’t imagine the use case for all that storage.
I’d be interested if anybody has ever come close to running out of storage on an AW, and if so how.
One big problem is that the manufacturers know that so many people will just click "OK" on any privilege request they receive.
And then the users go on to blame Google for the insecure OS letting the malware do it's thing. That it turn caused Google to further lock down (and dumb down) the device, removing capabilities for all of us.
These are the sort of people who would give their bank card and PIN to a stranger, and then blame the bank when money is taken from their account. However, with phones, this act is not considered foolish.
You do not need the location just to passively scan for WiFi networks - it makes no difference to the receiver if that frequency is quiet because it isn't in the local allocations or just because nobody is in range. Any time wasted is trivial.
If you are transmitting - actively pinging for remembered SSIDs - then you should obey local allocations but by then you are way beyond scanning.
If you find a network and try to join it then you rely on the base station obeying the rules (so, yes, if you set your phone as a hotspot, tell it what country you are in - no need for any more precise location than that).
> Even a presumably legitimate open source Android wifi scanner needs it.
NEEDS it? Time to check the source code, or at least send a note to the author...
Needs as in "it's a required field" not "it's required to do the job".
It's required by the Google API because they like to know the location of wifi hotspots. They claim this is for our own good, to provide location services when there is no GPS. Whether you believe that is entirely down to you and your memory of Google's past behaviour.
I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me: the Google weather widget no longer allows you to set your home town. It just uses location services, and as I have that/GPS disabled, it keeps giving me the weather for random places all over Wales (and sometimes further)
With all their brains, you'd think they'd know by now that the UK DSL networks (the ones I've experience of) transit our data internally across the UK, peering to the internet in London, meaning it's a crapshoot trying to tie user IP addresses to location.
And on the Apple side- why does adding a WKWebView in 2024 *MANDATE* internet access permissions? 9 times out of 10 people will reach for it to add some css styled static FAQ page served from the application or some other last minute hack to please the higher ups on a Friday. And now there's yet another app on the appstore that never needs internet access asking for it, diluting even further the significance and implications of this permission to the unwashed masses.
Lots of answers here with lots of complexity. The answer is simple, location is required so that WiFi scan results and location can be sent to Google. There is no other reason. One app needing a list of other apps installed is just not required and could be stopped by Google, they won't, data is their averice.
I'm not usually one to defend Google, but you are wrong in both of your examples. Google restricts WiFi to stop apps gathering your location without your permission. This has been answered in this thread numerous times already.
"list of installed apps" is needed for many things: app managers, alternate launchers, cache cleaners. There is no ulterior motive to Google allowing that access (only when permission granted) - to remove such a facility would cause android to be locked down even further. They've already removed many features that were originally behind permissions... Now you want them to remove more?
By the way, Google apps have legitimate access to your list of installed apps already (the play store) - they don't need to provide a user facing API to snarf that info if they want to.
Ditto for the WiFi information. Are there any other daft conspiracies you want to share?
"Why the hell, for example, do you need location to scan for available WiFi networks?"
If it gets hits on known wi-fi locations, it gets a tighter fix on where you are. Very handy when They install automated sniper rifles so they can be sure they have high confidence they are on the correct target. That and being able to tie advertising from shops nearby and notify you of any offers.
> Difficult to know how fast you are going without GPS
Taking the basis of the conversation so far, measure your lap time, using the stopwatch. Divide the distance you moved by the time it took you. Ta da, you were going at that (average) speed.
But for a more general purpose usage, such as getting your current speed at any arbitrary point along the track, just take note of one key point: GPS has sod all to do with IoT. Some - not all - IoT things may include GPS, but not all GPS are IoT. Similarly, some IoT controls the living room lights, not all living room lights are controlled by IoT.
In fact, GPS has sod all to do with "Smart Devices" or any ability to communicate with anything whatsoever, with the sole exception of receiving the satellite signals. Even commercial civilian handheld GPS units that you could easily use whilst out on the track predate any "Smart Devices": 1989 versus - well, you can argue when "Smart crap" started, but it was later than that.
And even now you can get a neat standalone GPS unit that is more likely to survive than your 'phone when you wipe out in the slalom.
Just why, do you need 99% of this shit?
Ah forgot, you do.
Unfortunately it's people like a friend if mine with the attitude "I'd rather have ads I'm interested in than ones I'm not".
Me ..I'd rather not have ads, but if I must, I'm happy to see the scam products from China as I'll know I won't even be tempted in the slightest.
It has gone on for far, far too long. Cars, phones, TVs, smart freezers, Windows OS, robo vacuums are just some of the items. Pretty much every single item you buy now. We are not considered owners anymore, it isn't our device, we just pay to be allowed to use it and the manufacturer feels entitled to all and every piece of data they can scrape.
None of this would be possible without breaking laws for non connected devices, yet because it is "smart" it is done with impunity. The laws need to catch up, but then again with the desire for authorities to track citizens will the right thing be done?
The main reason this has been allowed to happen and is continuing to happen is because the general public do not understand, care, think it is fine or indeed say" my life isn't interesting so what would anyone want to listen to or track me?". Until the general public care it won't stop, sadly
"The laws need to catch up, but then again with the desire for authorities to track citizens will the right thing be done?"
To quite a large extent they have, it's the enforcement that hasn't and tracking by authorities may well be part of it. One of the provisions of GDPR is that provision of a service shouldn't be conditional to waiving your rights but how is this enforced other than by suing the service provider? What's really needed is a pro-active ICO but if anyone were to propose that there's be cries of "red tape". Unless there's a greater public understanding of the issues those cores are going to be the loudest voices and will get a sympathetic hearing from governments' security advisors.
From actual discussions with some senior people in the ICO I can only say they are unable to grasp the concept of preventative action against a company which is breaching GDPR until there is an incident to investigate.
I tried to get them to investigate a company providing occupational health services which I knew (and could evidence) had seriously inadequate security controls. But their only action was to advise me to not use them. The concept of doing something before there was an incident seemed to be a very confusing idea to them.
> From actual discussions with some senior people in the ICO I can only say they are unable to grasp the concept of preventative action against a company which is breaching GDPR until there is an incident to investigate.
I tried to get the ICO to look into unlawful sharing of the personal health data of the whole Northern Ireland population (1.8-1.9 million people) involving more than 500+ organisations (now grown to 1000+ orgs) over around a 9-10 year period and the ICO basically were not interested (they didn't even properly investigate my related formal complaints involving my own personal data).
From documents I've obtained from some of those organisations it appeared the ICO instead decided to "help" the organisations come into (future) compliance with data protection law (and so the ICO consciously ignored all those years of them breaking the law!).
Even with ICO help those orgs have taken a further 2+ years to attempt to come into compliance, I say "attempt" as the recent documention (Data Sharing Agreements, Data Processing Agreements) created and "agreed" doesn't actually contain some of the mandatory information required by GDPR to be present in order for them to be valid documents. I also say "agreed" as the vast majority of the Data Controllers involved were *not* involved in defining the contents of the Data Sharing Agreement that they "agreed to", rather the finished DSA was sent out to all of them earlier this year to "sign here" (aka for GP Practices "sign here to agree to this or lose your GMS contract with the Health Service").
The Meeting Minutes I obtained show how slowly public sector organisation can be to address a legal compliance issue.
Below you can see how they spent 14+ months getting a Data Sharing Agreement out to GP Practices - note that these below discussions occurred 10 years *after* the sharing commenced that the DSA being discussed is supposed to have been in place beforehand to legally define. Also note that they sent the DSA out to GPs just to sign - it is obvious there is no intention for GP Practices to be able to object to parts of the DSA and have it changed, after all all of the Trusts had already signed that DSA before it was sent to GP Practices - if modifications were actually intended to be permitted then every other organisation that had already signed the DSA would then need to re-sign any revised version(s).
Excerpts from NIECR Steering Group meeting minutes:
10th Feb 2023:
"[redacted] updated the Steering Group on the issue of the suite of Information Governance documentation that had been under discussion for some time. The meeting noted that these documents still needed formal sign off by DLS, but the indications were that due to resourcing difficulties in DLS this was not likely to be agreed in the immediate future.
During discussion [redacted] noted that this was brought even more info focus by the imminent go-live trial of [redacted], and the unresolved issue of a mechanism for GP agreement to any documentation. [redacted] also informed the Steering Group that this was an identified risk at Trust level and Southern Trust had raised the matter with BSO Senior Management on behalf of all the Trusts.
[redacted] agreed that the Steering Group was restricted by the need to follow due process and suggested that if progress was not made soon the possible use of external legal advice may need to be examined."
31st March 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that the ongoing issue of the agreement of the IG documents has been discussed at a senior level within BSO and DHCNI. These discussions, which had been prompted in part by correspondence from Trust SIROs, had resulted in the matter being accelerated by DLS. [redacted] was in discussion with DLS to get the documents agreed, and to begin the sign-off process.
[redacted] echoed the views of the meeting when he noted that it was important that the agreement of these documents should be seen to move forward."
12th May 2023:
"Discussions with DLG were ongoing regarding the suite of IG documents. The Steering Group noted that one of the outcomes of the latest round of discussions with DLS is a change to the approach to be taken in getting final agreement with the Data Controllers.
The advice of DLS was that the Data Sharing Agreement between the key controllers (all Trust and Primary Care Providers) be treated as a separate document. Once this step is achieved it will be possible to roll out either Data Sharing Agreement or Data Processing Agreements (subject to the advice of DLS) to all other system users.
Following discussion, the issue of the actual mechanics of Primary Care agreement was discussed. The involvement of DHCNI in the broader discussions meant that the NIECR Team were optimistic that this issue could be resolved."
23rd June 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that the amended documents had been received from DLS.
This would allow the documents to be finalised, and once this was done the process of issuing and seeking agreements from Trusts and all Primary Care Providers could begin."
18th August 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that the Data Sharing Agreement final amendments had been received from DLS.
This would allow the start of the process to ensure all data controllers agree, sign, and return the Agreement. The Steering Group noted that this would be a particular challenge for the 300-plus GP practices, and that discussions were underway with SPPG about the best approach.
The meeting noted that the other elements of the documentation (DPIA, Data Mapping and Privacy Notice) had been completed."
28th September 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that a meeting had been scheduled for 9 October to discuss how best to take forward having the newly agreed Data Sharing Agreements circulated and signed by GPs. The Trusts are also to be emailed directly about the same issue."
20th October 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that discussions had been ongoing on the roll out of the agreed Data Sharing Agreement with GP Practices.
A draft cover letter had been agreed with [redacted], and this was circulated for members....
The Data Sharing Agreement for GP Practices would be issued electronically, and the approval would also be electronic, using the Forms tool.
The meeting also noted that there had been ongoing discussions about this process being linked to a similar exercise required by [redacted]. A meeting had taken place with the DLS advisor to the [redacted] and there was a feeling that the time pressures on the [redacted] mean it may make sense for [redacted] to proceed with issuing their Data Sharing Agreement to GPs for agreement now, and for the NIECR DSA to be delayed for a few weeks. This would avoid any potential confusion if practices were asked to sign similarly named documents at or around the same time.
The Steering Group agreed to this approach.
The Steering Group notes that the Data Sharing Agreement had been circulated to the Trusts, and a number of these have been signed and returned."
8th December 2023:
"[redacted] informed the meeting that the Data Sharing Agreement had been signed by all Trusts.
As previously discussed, progressing the DSA with GP Practices had been put on hold to facilitate a similar roll out by [redacted]. It was agreed that the ECR Team would check progress on the [redacted] documentation and so clarify the timetable for allowing GPs to sign the DSA for NIECR."
26th January 2024:
"[redacted] continued, contact made with DLS to enquire of status of [redacted[ DSA with GPs to start the NIECR process, we are awaiting response."
8th March 2024:
"...This can be sent out with the latest data sharing agreement and security policy towards the end of the month or April."
21st June 2024:
"[redacted] stated this has been sent to 300 Practices to accept the data sharing agreement, 206 came back within timeframe. We have engaged with [redacted] and [redacted], we will directly target the outstanding Practices. A further deadline has been set for of July."
Small appliances are often made in one giant factory in China these days, a factory that will be making simultaneously numerous product lines for ostensibly competing manufacturers. There will be lightweight customization of code but overall everything's shared between products so you might find (for example) the control panel on your 8 year old bread maker looking suspiciously like the control panel on your just purchased one (from a different manufacturer).
Its the way of the world. Unfortunately even the meanest microcontroller seems to come with ample memory and a WiFi interface these days. The additional code for this will be modules forklifted into the firmware, modules that come from a third party supplier, with just a minimum of customization needed to make it unique to your product. Usage and demographics information will go to some data broker (in addition to whatever data broker your ISP is working with -- its all grist to the mill). This information isn't any use to "China" for the most part but it will be a useful extra income stream for the brand importer.
Ah, but if we say it is all the fault of China then we can raise the hackles of all the God-fearing Westerners, who will then only buy the safe "brand names" and their marked up prices.
When their info is sucked up anyway, we can all just point at the Evil Empire and publicly wash our lily white hands of all responsibility, nudging our ad revenues out of camera shot.
So many Ice Cool ACs on here, it's weird. If you are such a complete fonz why don't you want a handle associated with your posts? If I was cool enough to be ignoring brands two decades ago I'd want that cachet associated with my handle.
It sounds to me like you're the kind of person who's posts I'd like to read but how will I find your insight if you keep posting AC?
Do us all a favour and let us see the combined wisdom of all your posts, there is so much we could learn!!!
> cool enough to be ignoring brands
Weird take - isn't all the excessive branding of goods on the outside all about buying the Right Thing and Being Seen, which is the epitome of Cool?
Lamenting the fact that brands are no longer worth worrying about as an indicator of what quality you'll get is all about "it were better in my day", nearly the absolute opposite of Cool!
Guess you are just referring to the Cyclic Fashion Theory, gone so far around that now being a Grumpy Old Git is the New Cool! Shake those carpet slippers, you fuddy fool!
I was recently in the market for a potato rumbler. I found four listed on Amazon ranging in price from £40 to £160. Upon downloading the instruction manuals for all four, I was amazed to find that, apart from some very minor differences in colour and graphics, they were all identical. I therefor purchased the £40 one, which does the job perfectly and saved me a possible £120.
Actually, the toilet is probably one of the few home appliances that needs to know your gender. That is, if its got a bidet built in -- the ladies may use an extra 'front wash' jet.
But then the bidet itself doesn't need to know anything. One of the really clever features of toilet design is that apart from the flush start mechanism there's no moving parts -- nothing to go wrong, nothing to service, "it just works". I wish the same could be said about computers......
I have so far failed to come up with any reason to have it connected to the internet at all.
I have two IoT wifi networks - one that has access to the Intenet (but nothing else, it's firewalled off from my normal network) and one that *looks* like it has access but doesn't.. (DNS is allowed and logged but any other traffic gets blackholed at the firewall with a silent drop..)
As also Michael Hoffman's post above: an air fryer needs connecting to mains power. A toilet needs connecting to the sewerage and water system.
That's it.
When did we start mistaking pretty lights for essential functionality?
I will be replacing a hedge in the next few days and to be honest I'm concerned that some idiot will try to persuade me that the trees in it should, in some way, be connected...
Anyone, no matter how feeble minded who thinks they need a cloud connected air fryer probably needs some serious supervision anyhow.
My thoughts, exactly.
I don't own one but guess it's just a small table top fan forced oven with non stick (teflon, ceramic) surfaces which is basic 1960s technology if not earlier.
Just needs 240VAC in, a knob to turn on and select temperature (two knobs if you count the operator.)
Why complicate a perfectly functional unit?
A few years ago I saw an oven thermometer in a charity shop that required a bluetooth connection to display the temperature. Plain daft. The BT transmitter unit had to be outside the oven (compromising the oven seal with its cable) if only because the oven was fairly effective Faraday cage but I am certain the electronics would have melted anyway.
In a $2 shop (=Pound shop UK) you could pick up a bimetallic oven thermometer that mechanically drove a dial that could be read through the oven's glass. Simple and with calibration, accurate.
Nothing in everyday life needs to be cloud connected. We survived a couple of hundred thousand years as a species without that luxury but probably not too many more generations with it.
Just needs 240VAC in, a knob to turn on and select temperature (two knobs if you count the operator.)
Why complicate a perfectly functional unit?
I've got a 2-bucket air fryer from a supplier that starts with 'N'. Has some nifty cooking things (cooking different stuff in each bucket? You can set it to start the shorter cook after the longer cook at the right time for both to finish together - useful stuff like that).
What it doesn't have is any need for anything other than a flat surface to sit on and 240v power input.
It's currently dehydrating some apple slices made from our bumper apple crop.
I can see a decent enough use case for a thermometer that you can read remotely. If you are the sort of person that likes to cook by measured temperature and maybe you have mobility issues making it difficult to move around a lot.
Having the wire coming via the door seal is just a bit of rubbish design, and a Bluetooth connection seems the obvious way of getting the signal into the next room say. So long as it's a point to point Bluetooth link, but so often now it somehow won't work without an internet connection.
I have a device that measures something, then uploads the measurements to my phone via Bluetooth so I can see the measurements. Except that what it actually does is uses the Bluetooth link to upload the data to the cloud via the phone app. The phone app then gets the data from the cloud to display. If you are out in the field with no phone signal the Bluetooth connection is thus rendered useless.
Anyone, no matter how feeble minded who thinks they need a cloud connected air fryer probably needs some serious supervision anyhow.
I like my bean-to-cup coffee machine but it's starting to show signs of its age (4 years old, repaired (by me) twice). So I looked at a potential replacement - which I then discovered *requires* a phone app in order to change some of the settings (which have to be done manually on my current one).
I'll be stocking up on parts for my existing one. Even if it doesn't allow me to schedule a coffee to be automatically made in the morning.
Since when do we tolerate kitchen appliances with a life expectancy of less than five years?
My microwave is more than 30 years old, still works just fine. Kettle, ten years. Oven, about fifteen. I did replace the dishwasher last year, the previous one being only 12 years old, and thought that was pretty shoddy.
You will soon probably not have the option.
They ill be cheaper (because the costs can be offset by selling the collected data), so very few people will buy not internet connected versions, so they will become expensive niche products or not available at all.
I recently bought a washing machine and dishwasher (cheap ones too) after moving house and it took a bit of care to be sure I did not end up buying something that had the "convenience" of being operated using an app.
We have a smallish air fryer, bought it about 5 years or so ago, before the hype over them started. Most things cook fairly quickly in them. It's rare (if ever) for me to ever need to walk away and do something else while waiting for it to finish because there's more to cooking a meal than chucking stuff in and leaving it for 10-15 mins, so no, I can't imagine any need, ever, for a "connected, smart" air fryer. I'd certainly never want to put something in and then remotely start it cooking either.
I see a need to change the law to provide a full and immediate refund if a smart device is returned because the buyer did not wish to provide the required permissions if they were not clearly disclosed in advance of the purchase. If you can't determine whether a device is acceptable before purchase and attempting to set it up then you don't know if it will be fit for purpose. Having a significant return rate might cause some of these companies to revise their policies a bit.
Last time I bought a large screen TV I managed to find a dumb one - I probably couldn't find one now. I attempt to confine various other IoT devices to my home network with a firewall entry in the router, and a few that do need external access are separated out onto their own VLAN so they can't see the rest of the network. I try not to buy stuff that requires giving away personal data.
Two years ago I bought a 'smart' TV because, unless you go pro, the best screens are only available in that category.
But I duly dumbed it down by refusing its wish to connect to the internet and instead use a set-top-box for all 'smartness' I need, connected by HDMI.
Never had a single problem with that setup.
set-top-box for all 'smartness' I need, connected by HDMI.
For unrelated reasons I once had to connect a set top box to the HDMI port of a decent monitor and was surprised how much better the display was compared a decent television unit. Most monitors with DisplayPort normally also sport an HDMI port.
DVDs looked better too. (Well Good Omens did. World's smallest DVD collection?)
My relationship with Google ended so far as possible when I realised that the Google Chromecast Audio woiud not play local music locally unless ithe broadband was up so it could call home. They are that desparate for data.
Not much smart here. Microwave has a mechanical dial timer which goes ping. 4 mechanical timers for bathroom fans and towel rails. Ceiling fans have IR rermotes, like the TV
Some years ago I was "working away" in Finland. I usually have Classic FM on in the background, and was missing it whilst over there. I discovered that Classic was available over the Internet, but it detected that I was not in the UK, so refused to play. It gave me the option to tell it the Postcode of my location, and after entering my home postcode, over 1000km away, it played happily, although with a two hour timeslip, but I could live with that.
I've already found at least one TV brand that markets "dumb" (non internet enabled) TV's.
Of course you can always pass up supplying your Wifi credentials, but I'm convinced we'll see more and more gadgets which will simply refuse to work if you don't allow them to connect to the internet.
https://www.sceptre.com/
Bah. Septic site, prices in rallods.
Chances of getting one delivered (intact) to Ol' Blighty - about the same as the chances of an outbreak of sanity in US politics now that the Orange Buffoon [1] has taken over.
[1] Wonder how long his lifespan is going to be once his facist backers realise that he won't be told what to do. Vance will be much more malleable..
Fancy UI, WiFi all adds costs so of course the mfg's have gotten "creative" about recovering their costs, now they've found that warranties aren't the money spinner they used to be.
Apparently display + knob + buttons on a top end microwave is cheaper than just the 2 knobs (time and power) on basic microwave.
Do you need it to start up at a set time?
Do you even need a clock on it?
Same with the rest of this s**t.
If in doubt say NO.
Do you even need a clock on it?
No, you don't! My previous microwave was advertised as not having a clock to reduce power consumption* in standby mode. As there's a clock on the oven** (I suppose you might want to set a timed start and end) and an analogue clock already it was no loss.
*Not sure how much energy the display actually needs, but it's probably negligible.
**An oven I rarely use since getting a Ninja Foodi (which is not connected and doesn't have a permanent clock).
An oven I rarely use since getting a Ninja Foodi
I have a combo of an Instant Pot Duo (does pressure/slow cooking amongst other things) and a Ninja dual air fryer (neither of which are network/app enabled or need to be) so the oven [1] gets hardly used..
[1] A 7-year old Bosch - no clock but it does have a (mechanical) timer that I've never used..
Do you need it to start up at a set time?
A simple microwave, probably not, but there are some situations where you might want a delayed start for an appliance:
- you need to leave home in the morning but want your Sunday roast to be cooked when you are back
- you want to do a laundry today but don't want to leave the wet clothes in the machine for hours, so you set a delay to have the cycle end when you're back home
- you want to take advantage of off-peak electricity rates (e.g run the dishwasher between 3am and 7am)
But these features have been available for decades without needing an app or an internet connnection.
Precisely- for years we've been setting the washing machine to finish in time for us to put the washing out in the garden when we come down in the morning. Now we set stuff to come on when the sun comes up ( because solar PV). But the appliances don't need internet connection, just a timer.
"Apparently display + knob + buttons on a top end microwave is cheaper than just the 2 knobs (time and power) on basic microwave."
When I recently had to replace my microwave I went for the professional/commercial market. I got just what I wanted, entirely electro-mechanical controls, and at a lower price than anything that the shops were offering. Try f'rinstance https://www.nisbets.co.uk/
Most things I do not want connecting, but there are exceptions. TV, music - yes, and I do have my Robo Vacuum (only because it lives under a sofa and the risk of pulling a sofa out and damaging the floor is not worth the aggro)
One thing I have noticed, if my little robo vacuum loses the internet or decides to reset (twice now), getting the little bastard back on line is an interesting challenge, often made worse by phones refusing to stay on a wifi that is not connected to the internet (even though my settings say to stay put)
The Hive makes the above look like a walk in the park when that looses its shit. Just waiting for it to be pulled or die and go back to my old trusty RF theromostat (it was installed as part of the new boiler)
That alone is enough to put me off.
Meanwhile I have to pay the Information Commissioner a bunch of cash every year because my limited company retains the email addresses of people I have emailed. I imagine these companies pay the same amount, if they anything, to extract vast amounts of data to China.
Just feels a bit unfair is all.
I'm not entirely sure what the benefits of information gleaned from an air fryer would be. Are there two guys in Beijing going "Oh look, Mr Smith at 37 Acacia Avenue Croydon is having chips again"?
Anyway, MY air fryer just has two knobs and a light. One knob to set the timer, one knob to set the temperature, and a light to show you it's heating up. What more do you need?
^^This^^
99% of the *connected stuff* we are being spammed with ( well 100% in the kitchen ) actually would work perfectly fine in an offline version.
The worst are the so called smart TV that REQUIRE an internet access for being able to watch what comes from the Antenna.
I fail to see the need for any kitchen appliance to be "smart" or have any need to be connected to the Internet. Ovens have timers that can be set to start at a certain time, you could put a timer on a crockpot to start slow cooking if needed before you get home. What could you possibly need cooked in an air fryer that requires a long cook time, that couldn't be done in an oven or in person? Plan ahead and cook the day before and warm it up.
All this IoT is unsecured and only makes it easier for hackers to gain access to your home, network, and devices. Finding an appliance timed to start at a specified time can tell criminals when your home is unoccupied. Home security cameras are too easily accessed, a visit to shodan.io will show you how accessible it all is.
I fail to see the need for any kitchen appliance to be "smart"
I have an Android app which I wrote myself which provides cooking schedules and alerts for "put it in", "turn it over", and what not, so I don't have to think about it and can be sure everything will be done at the same time. That's been very handy and I could see how someone might want that built in to an oven or cooker.
It allows multiple items to be selected for starters, main, and dessert, interleaves it all for varying end-times. It uses a Wi-Fi connection to a local server.
So "IoT", "Smart" and "AI" (LOL).
"I have an Android app which I wrote myself which provides cooking schedules and alerts for "put it in", "turn it over", and what not, so I don't have to think about it and can be sure everything will be done at the same time. That's been very handy and I could see how someone might want that built in to an oven or cooker."
I can see that being useful for some people. I've never even tried to write an Android app, so kudos to you. On the other hand, I've been winging it for years in the kitchen and am pretty good at juggling all those things in my head so it all comes together at the right time(s) for the meal :-) I'm one of those who may follow a recipe a few times to get the hang of something, then just throw together my own variations. My wife is the type who has to follow a recipe every time, step by step, so I do most of the cooking. It could be a cunning plan on her part :-)
It does seem to be the apps that are the main issue with data snaffling and obsolescence as well. Was it not LG that was caught selling new 'smart' TVs with apps that were already unsupported.
My own car which I bought used is only 3yr old yet two of the built in apps have been completely abandoned by the manufacturer. I wouldn't mind as I don't need them but I can't remove their feckin large icons from the display.
Smart things to me are less desirable since the 'smart' function is likely to kill the device a long time before any mechanical failure.
We had our ISP in to rewire the house with copper extenders (cinder-block house, poor wifi connectivity upstairs and down). CAT6.
After all was done, the downstairs TV refused to connect to YouTube. Netflix worked fine. (Both are built-in to the set, a VIzi--something.) "I swear they used to work."
We called the ISP back in, they swapped out the wifi modem, almost got to swapping out the fibre-optic modem (huh?)
Meanwhile $MAGNIFICENTWIFE went googling and discovered "if you turn on automatic date/time on the whatsit menu" it will start to work.
And it did.
And so we conclude that network connectivity (a.k.a. spyware) is now mandatory to make the TV work on builtin apps. NTP for us in the know.
Sigh.
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It's a computer and the rest are just specialised peripherals.
IOW.
It needs updates.
It needs anti-virus
It will become obsolete (IE unsupported) on PC timescales, not the obsolescence of the actual hardware it's supposed to be supporting.
Case in point. The CIO of a major US utility said smart meter models are obsolete in 7 years, implying complete replacement schedules of 7 years to eliminate the meter reading teams they used to employ. But that's OK because the business is saving money. Given that mechanical meters can be refurbed after 30years and re-issued I'm not clear exactly how this is a saving. The same companies build UK smart meters, but of course UK meters are a special order and will last 15 years. No it's true, the UK put that in the spec. Honest.
" but of course UK meters are a special order and will last 15 years. No it's true, the UK put that in the spec. Honest."
And so will be easily hackable for 14 years instead of "Only" 6 once the vulns are found since they won't ever be updated "in service".
Bought a new shaver - it wants me to download an app and connect to it via Bluetooth so it can show me "my shaving profile" (or something).
Toothbrush - this also has a Bluetooth connected app.
All other IoT that I have that is (slightly) better with an internet connection is connected to my IoTatt WiFi on a heavily-filtered VLAN.
I have never understood why I would want a WiFi-enabled kettle or dishwasher as neither will fill or empty themselves!
"Bought a new shaver - it wants me to download an app and connect to it via Bluetooth so it can show me "my shaving profile" (or something).
Toothbrush - this also has a Bluetooth connected app."
Why? There's still plenty of quality shavers and teethbreeshes available without IoT stuff (for now!)
Create a fake phone that these apps can connect to, which gives a fake location of your choice (so not everyone using this fake phone would have the same fake location), fake files, etc. Not sure whether it would need a real internet connection--I suppose it depends on whether these smart Xs send the data home themselves, or through your phone.
Ok, you probably wouldn't earn a million $, but you might earn respect.
As usual, it is only China and other 'foreigners' spying on us. Never any mention of the countless US products and companies doing exactly the same if not more.
Do try to be a little more fair and unbiased in your articles please.
I know that this site is sadly owned by the bloody americans but for fuck's sake don't take us all for morons just because a huge percentage of your country are.
So give me just one reason why my frickin air-fryer needs to be connected to the bleedin' "inta-webs"?!
FFS, it cooks chips and chicken nuggets when the missus goes out to see her sister of an evening once a week and I have to do me own dinner! We all love tech or we wouldn't work in this biz but sometimes I have to question how fecking stupid humanity is with it's insatiable need for info about the most pointless bollocks!
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