If Trump gets elected, get your tech buying done asap Tariffs have become a major issue in the current US election, with former president Donald Trump claiming his plans to put a 10-20 percent tax on imports, rising to 60 percent with China, would fill government coffers for tax cuts and make American manufacturing great again. His rival Kamala Harris called the plans a ‘sales tax …
You're missing the point. Since he was last president, his stuffed Supreme Court has ruled that the president is above the law https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/
He's on record saying that he was frustrated by being blocked by his staff.
He's already said he's going to put Trump supporters in charge of the military, and fire all government employees that aren't trump loyalists.
His staff, from Project 2025 to Bannon and Miller are prepared this time.
Don't downplay his ambition because of his previous failure.
> You're missing the point. Since he was last president, his stuffed Supreme Court has ruled that the president is above the law https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/
Wrong. Current and former Presidents are not above prosecution for actions taken *outside* Presidential duties. From your link: "former presidents can never be prosecuted for actions relating to the core powers of their office". Core. Powers.
>He's on record saying that he was frustrated by being blocked by his staff.
If staff don't follow the lawful orders of a President, they should be replaced. If serving military officers disobey lawful orders from the Commander in Chief, they should be relieved of duty at least, or brought up on courts martial if warranted.
>He's already said he's going to put Trump supporters in charge of the military, and fire all government employees that aren't trump loyalists.
Every President does this to some degree or another.
>His staff, from Project 2025 to Bannon and Miller are prepared this time.
Trump is on record as rejecting Project 2025. Considering the hoaxes that cost him half his time in office, I hope his staff are ready.
>Don't downplay his ambition because of his previous failure.
Don't fear monger because his opponent is also ambitious if incompetent.
> If staff don't follow the lawful orders of a President, they should be replaced. If serving military officers disobey lawful orders from the Commander in Chief, they should be relieved of duty at least, or brought up on courts martial if warranted.
You said it yourself though - LAWFUL orders. Who's to decide in the moment if the order is lawful or not? What if Trump tries to get an unlawful order pushed through by hiring cronies who will do whatever he says, lawful or not?
"You said it yourself though - LAWFUL orders. Who's to decide in the moment if the order is lawful or not? What if Trump tries to get an unlawful order pushed through by hiring cronies who will do whatever he says, lawful or not?"
The checks and balances of government. Although in the moment Biden was able to push student debt relief, the supreme court strikes it down and Biden then did it again and bragged about defying the courts.
You are missing the fact that "checks and balance of government" are dependent upon the morals of the individuals who have to do those checks, being that a human Being must be the actor. The only reason the line held the last time was because Vice President Pence had the moral foundation to say "No" to Trump's insistence that Pence had the "right" to alter the reading of the delegate's votes.
And the next time...???
You are trying to compare a minor presidential issue - student debt relief - as a comparison to a president using [his] power of office to overturn election results, and even threatening to use the military to enforce that alteration.
Not. Even. Close.
@Snake
"The only reason the line held the last time was because Vice President Pence had the moral foundation to say "No" to Trump's insistence that Pence had the "right" to alter the reading of the delegate's votes."
Did he? I know Pence likes to claim it and the left media jumped on it because it suits but didnt he ask Pence to pause as the 'magic' votes were coming in? The ones that just managed to support Biden by enough afterwards with questionable integrity?
"And the next time...???"
Interestingly this time a lot of effort is going into trying to clean up the ballot rolls but is hitting opposition by some who dont seem to want election integrity. There was a recent case of a local election misbehaviour, which requires such a high level of evidence to prove, and luckily video evidence showing the kind of impropriety that was accused in the election.
"You are trying to compare a minor presidential issue - student debt relief - as a comparison to a president using [his] power of office to overturn election results"
Nope you stepped into a conversation about the President and lawful action. Where Biden was gloating about ignoring the supreme court.
@codejunky
What "magic votes" coming in, besides the illegal 'delegates' that the GOP was trying to slip in to override the legitimate vote?? Here's a nice, tidy little summation of the rejection of your fantasy
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/what-trump-asked-of-pence/
"Nope you stepped into a conversation about the President and lawful action."
That is exactly correct! We're here talking about the President's lawful abilities.
Overriding the vote is NEVER lawful. Never. Neither is the desire to get the military involved in the elections to suit your ego.
You see Mr. Codejunky, the rest of us recognize that either you're trolling...or you really are a troll here, in regards to this topic. Some of those "'magic voters' are now in jail for their attempted fraud - where they should be. The 'independent' Arizona audit by Cyber Ninjas, remember that? Remember the humiliation when they found...more votes for Biden??
Trumpers are in a fantasy land of trying to make something that they can then claim a bias with. It's not working, try again.
@Snake
"https://www.factcheck.org/2023/08/what-trump-asked-of-pence/"
Questionable source.
"That is exactly correct! We're here talking about the President's lawful abilities."
In which I pointed out Biden was boasting about ignoring the supreme court ruling against his debt relief program.
"Overriding the vote is NEVER lawful"
Ensuring election integrity is. It is interesting how some have been fighting to allow ballots for those it would be illegal to vote. Pennsylvania just won in court that the law must be followed ffs!
Dates on mail in ballots must be correct or they wont be counted.
Pennsylvania tried to close early voting early so had to be dealt with by the courts to extend voting.
Those gloriously reliable dominion voting systems have a national problem not letting people make certain selections.
The Supreme Court had to intervene in Virginia to allow them to remove intelligible voters from the voter rolls.
In Colorado Fort Orange Press ballots wont scan. In Nevada County, California they had a large scale issue trying to count 77,000 ballots accurately due to 'ink overspray'.
Mississippi had to have a court case to insist only ballots that arrive on time should be counted and not late arriving ones.
And my favourite amusement even CNN struggle with- https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/09/politics/how-a-nullified-election-in-connecticut-became-a-rallying-cry-for-trump-supporters/index.html
A judge had to nullify an election in Connecticut because there was so much overwhelming evidence of fraud he couldnt not do. But we should trust that the 'magic votes' that pushed Biden to win were above board and legit.
"The 'independent' Arizona audit by Cyber Ninjas, remember that? Remember the humiliation when they found...more votes for Biden??"
How does that happen if the election is free and fair and all votes are counted?
CodeJunky, you support my stance on elections needing "to be seen" to be honest and accurate. Rules have to be in place and in force so judges aren't given the leeway to allow mail-in ballots with mismatched signatures to be counted or those postmarked after a certain day be allowed. I vote in person on election day. I make the time and take the effort to do that and if something were to come up that prevented me from getting there, I'd be disappointed, but in the grand scheme of things my vote is unlikely to be "the one" that decides something. I won't use that as an excuse to not vote, though.
KISS and it should be fine. Simple also means that people can understand how the process is meant to work and, hopefully, a simple system is less prone to massive fraud.
@georgezilla
"They weren't " magic votes " they were the official, certified votes from the States. And the VP doesn't have the power to do anything with, to them, except to count them. As per the Constitution."
So no power to ensure a fair and free election, especially when magic votes start appearing.
" ... and luckily video evidence showing the kind of impropriety that was accused in the election.... "
There was NO proof of any kind that any of the things that Trump said happen.
60 State and Federal courts said so. And the SCotUS refused to even hear the 3 cases that were brought before them.
@georgezilla
"There was NO proof of any kind that any of the things that Trump said happen."
You capitalised the wrong word. There is no PROOF if you choose not to look. Remember this kind of fraud doesnt happen, except it did and the judge slapped it down because of OVERWHELMING evidence, which is the requirement to prove such fraud.
With this election there has been a huge effort to try and actually ensure voter integrity in some places, which has met with resistance.
"60 State and Federal courts said so. And the SCotUS refused to even hear the 3 cases that were brought before them."
So you say no proof was found with eyes purposefully shut and ears purposefully covered. Because if you look who knows what you might find.
"There is no PROOF if you choose not to look."
If you've been saying there is no fraud without looking, the last thing you want is anybody looking and you losing face when they find it. That's been going on for some time now. There's even lawsuits over looking to see IF there's been voting fraud at scale. The saved voting submissions can't be examined for fear something might happen to them. Why they're saved if they can't be examined later is a bit of a mystery. Of course there will always be some fraud, but beyond a certain point, the cost to eradicate it is too great.
schmuck>There was a recent case of a local election misbehaviour, which requires such a high level of evidence to prove, and luckily video evidence showing the kind of impropriety that was accused in the election.
Schilling for Russia?
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-5165593/russia-ballot-video-bucks-county
And the rest of the world will have to batten down the hatches as Trump impliments project 2025 on the USA and the world.
After all, with Herschel Walker in charge of the US Nuclear Deterrent what could go wrong?
I wonder how long it will be before the US owners of this site get told to shut it down?
Dissent will be a thing of the past in the USA as Trump declares himself POTUS for life.
@AC
"Schilling for Russia?"
Thats an interesting rebuttal. So I post a link to the factual fraud which caused a judge to overturn an election in the US due to overwhelming evidence. And you say thats shilling for Russia and post some bollocks thats unrelated.
No wonder you are AC, that is embarrassing
Expect that this time the order to the military to "seize the voting machines" will go through if he's better prepared. He's truly an idiot. In an interview on pbs i heard him say that "if i had gone into iraq i'd have seized all their oil. no oil no isis". He hadn't declared his candidacy for president yet.
US military oath for Enlisted -
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Ok, the President can order enlisted troops directly, However
US military oath for Officers -
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the _____ (Military Branch) of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
No mention here of following any Presidential orders, just a nice clear line about the constitution, their duty is clear in any situation where orders and constitution are at odds.
"faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter"
The duties of the office require one to obey the orders of superior officers. The US President is the Commander In Chief, which is the highest officer of all branches of the US military. The President could order a member of the military to kill another member of the military and it would be a lawful order (and hence, not murder committed by the soldier). That doesn't mean that the order was lawful in the first place, but would be unlawful to ignore or challenge. There are situations where it would be a lawful order such as in the case of an officer deserting in the face of the enemy.
It's not so much a Presidential order as much as an order from a superior officer.
He's also "on record" as being pro women's reproductive rights. Again the "everyone does it" argument? Not sure their "ambition" extends to becoming de-facto king by ignoring the vote. Bush became president because of a hanging chad but didn't try to stay when he lost. Even tricky dick left office albeit by appointing a new vice president who could be counted on to pardon him.
Trump is also on record for demanding the punishment of women who have an abortion. He says what he thinks that the person asking him the question wants to hear. He does not care if the answer is a complete lie. By now, he probably has problems distinguishing lies from truth.
We are truly doomed after 20th Jan 2025. It will go down as the day that US democracy ended.
"Trump is also on record for demanding the punishment of women who have an abortion"
Fact check false. He was being goaded by the MSNPC hack to say something but he didn't 'demand' punishment and in fact the ONLY time he has said anything like that was during the 2016 MSNPC townhall.
The point is that the U.S. is and will remain a democracy no matter who inhabits the White House. After his current term he'll be gone forever from the political scene.
Trump may have narcissistic and authoritarian traits but he will not have the guts to abolish democracy. If that were to happen he'd have to contend with 300 million armed-to-the-teeth Americans.
So, you folks are ok with the US National Institutes of Health essentially funding and covering up a global pandemic? CDC is small change in the US Gov and overshadowed by NIH and other players.
Look at your own gov response to the pandemic--lots of draconian rules that the political folks didn't follow. The dems are the party of pedophiles in the US....not sure what you have over in the UK that's equivalent. Get back to studying your Quran so you can fit in with your current gov.
So you weren't paying attention?
I think that the loss of a woman's right to make her own decissions about her reproductive health comes pretty close to doing just that.
Before you say that he didn't do that, HE has actually made the claim that he did do it many, many times.
And that's just one of many things that he's done.
those for the bans seem to forget that women miscarry naturally AND may need treatment afterwards involving a DNC. In places like Texas and soon to be nationwide, that care will be illegal.
Those women will DIR and people won't care. That in turn will lead to couples avoiding having children and if JD Couch is to be believed, they will lose their rights to vote.
Watch out. The 19th Amendment will be at risk. No more women voting and all women in politics will be banned.
Wow, you are a doom monger!
A DNC is not an abortion. And Trump has stated many times that he will not support a national ban, he wanted it to be with the states. You keep saying things that he's never said as if they are fact.
Every story about 'abortion death' in the US touted by the democrats has some key info missing. The one with the woman who had twins misses out that she should never have been given a chemical abortion due to having twins and that the provider was the one that utterly failed her. They were only interested in getting paid. Another story about a woman who tried to induce a miscarriage and got arrested is again incorrectly linked to roe-v-wade as the state she was in has not changed its abortion rules and she was arrested as she hid the body and posted about it on social media.
"those for the bans seem to forget that women miscarry naturally AND may need treatment afterwards involving a DNC. In places like Texas and soon to be nationwide, that care will be illegal."
My sister would have died if my niece's birth wasn't induced. My niece is alive today, but spent a long time in hospital before she could go home. If she didn't survive, would it have been "abortion". Chances were super tiny for survival. They were zero if the procedure wasn't done as my sister would have died. There wasn't time for a range of doctors, ministers and politicians to schedule a court date and argue both sides for days. My sister's doctor prescribed everything they could in supportive care but it wasn't helping and a decision had to be made right then with my sister in hospital and very ill.
We'll have to see what the future brings big guy. The only thing we can do is look to the past and examine the history of an equivalent action: past history says that import tariffs only start a tariff war with the opposing governments thereby raising prices to the average consumer, who in actuality pays the tariffs as those costs are simply passed down to the bottom of the supply chain. Once the imported products are more expensive the domestic products follow in turn, as profit seeking kicks in and the companies realize an increased profit potential from their competition's forced price increase. Either way, "tariffs" are only just another "tax" to be paid by the shopping public.
Ergo, I just pulled the Go button on a storage capacity upgrade with a new 4-drive NAS, before Trump's tariffs hit the tech imports.
"a blanket tariff would reduce disposable income by between one and five percent. People were already sick of the Covid inflationary period and losing more purchasing power would not be popular."
Ok but then why champion the Biden/Harris team that brought the high inflation which was more than just Covid but also the various spending sprees including the inflation reduction act.
Also for those who insist we shouldnt be outsourcing manufacturing will back this because it brings back home manufacturing. Personally I am not sold on the tariff thing due to liking cheap stuff but I also understand people argue to make things in the west.
Finally there is a conflict with China. China is flexing its muscles, Iran and Russia are at war and the US is looking weak.
"Finally there is a conflict with China. China is flexing its muscles, Iran and Russia are at war and the US is looking weak."
So it's especially worrying that one candidate likes to shake hands with evil dictators, doesn't think NATO does anything useful, and is likely to throw Taiwan under a bus, and has no time for America's allies.
> So it's especially worrying that one candidate likes to shake hands with evil dictators,
Not dealing politically with your enemies is how wars happen. I prefer my political leaders to be adults. Not saying that I prefer either candidate in general, but I would hope that whoever gets in has the balls to face up to some of these people and look them in the eye. You don't fight dangerous people by ignoring them.
You'd see that inflation was a worldwide phenomena all around the world in the wake of covid, and for the same reasons. The only country that brought it under control quickly was China, and a lot of that was due to deflationary pressures from their housing bubble popping.
@DS999
"You'd see that inflation was a worldwide phenomena all around the world in the wake of covid, and for the same reasons"
And the inflation reduction act did the opposite of trying to reduce inflation, instead blowouts of more money increase inflation. That is why the name was criticized as being such a lie.
If you want to look at money blowouts that increase inflation look no further than what happened under Trump, who increased the deficit by a record $7 trillion. The PPP forgivable loans were a massive cash injection into the system that happened without any accompanying economic activity (and also were so poorly policed that many who didn't qualify received them) plus there were the stimulus checks he wanted to take credit for and put his name on. Those two things dwarf the IRA, which was mostly trying to catch up a bit on deferred maintenance for things like roads and bridges.
Its funny how almost all the republicans in congress voted against the IRA, then turned around and tried to take credit for the projects that happened in their state/district. Hypocrisy of the worst sort, but that's par for the course for MAGA morons.
Thankfully it is looking more and more like 48 hours from now we'll know the orange MAGA moron in chief can go back to trying to get out from under all his crimes instead of threatening us with destroying our economy via tariffs. You want inflation, boy will you get it if Trump manages to win!
"who increased the deficit by a record $7 trillion"
A very good chunk of that was the CARES act giving free money away like it was candy and that all came from the house and senate, NOT Trump.
Still waiting for anything to actually happen WRT the IRA. So far it has just lined pockets.
And if he hadn't can you imagine the reee-ing from the dems? He didn't have much of a choice. The democrats had already made covid infinitely worse with things like Nancy Pelosi saying 'come to chinatown, its safe' and letting mardi gras happen or the head of the NY public health saying 'there is nothing to worry about, keep using public transport'. It was all part of making his last year in office look as bad as possible as the first 3 had been really good.
"Trump signed the CARES act. If he thought it was bad policy he could have vetoed it."
yeah, he could have, but if the vote was strong for it in Congress, the vote to overturn the veto would have been there as well. A President has to pick their fights carefully. This time around Mr Trump can't run for re-election so having a bunch of vetoes overturned might not be too much of an issue.
@DS999
"If you want to look at money blowouts that increase inflation look no further than what happened under Trump, who increased the deficit by a record $7 trillion"
Did he? Noting that Trumps spending accounts for covid hitting and having to react to that while Bidens not so much. It seems your 7 trillion figure includes a reserve the treasury borrowed and kept in reserve, that Biden spent and then borrowed another 7 trillion-
https://www.heritage.org/debt/commentary/the-lefts-7-trillion-lie-biden-far-outpaces-trump-racking-the-national-debt
And yet the economy was better under Trump (excluding covid), so good in fact that Obama then tried to claim credit and did again recently.
The one good thing about Trump being elected again is that we'll get to have the last laugh at all the morons who voted for him yet again despite all the red flags. When they whine about out of control inflation (and try to blame it on Biden) due to Trump's tariffs, and every other country puts tit for tat tariffs on the US decimating the farmers who heavily depend on exports (and also overwhelmingly voted for him) I'll have no sympathy.
And luckily since I've retired early if things get really bad I can move to another country and leave behind the mess he creates. I feel bad for all the people who are the victims of his stupidity, like women who are dying because they can't get basic health care in their state now, but unfortunately the morons outvoted the people who have the sense to recognize a con man when they see one. PT Barnum is proven right once again.
"(and try to blame it on Biden) "
Well, it happened under Biden!
Kamala was just a poor candidate. In no country did she out perform Joe Biden. She lost votes from latinos, women, people of colour to Trump. She was a populist riding a platform of 'not Trump' and abortion but utterly failed to make herself any different from Joe despite being given enough chances. The 'turn the page' and 'we can't have 4 more years of this' backfired as yes, people didn't want 4 more years of the current admin and that is all they will get if they voted for her.
Women are not being denied basic healthcare. The stories being posted about abortion deaths are all missing key important details. Women are being massively let down by the very people Kamala has been campaigning for.
I'm talking about the inflation HE is going to create from his dumbass tariff scheme. If he implements that on his first week in office inflation will be double digits by the end of next year, but he'll blame it on Biden even though it will be 100% his fault. He's a supremely unintelligent man who is dumb enough to actually believe that other countries pay our tariffs. I wonder what he'll say when other countries put tariffs on US products? He might think he can as president decide not to pay taxes to Germany or whoever, maybe then he'll finally listen to what people with IQs above room temperature are telling him.
Don't forget the US is now a net importer of food. Good luck with his planned 60% tariff on Mexico.
And the 10% minimum tariff? Make it 10% cheaper to build data centres North of the border, in Canadaa. Bonus for cooler weather and lots of electricity. East coast of Canada covers Europe and eastern US, West coast covers asia and western US, central Canada covers the Midwest USA.And
Bonus for cheaper electronics for non Americans due to price drops from sinking US demand.
"Don't forget the US is now a net importer of food. Good luck with his planned 60% tariff on Mexico."
That could be changed quickly enough. It's not volume of food that's an issue, it's the type along with mandates for things like ethanol made from food. Americans have also become accustomed to buying everything with no regard for seasons. If oranges were $3ea off-season due to lack of imports from South America, people would adapt and buy FCOJ for their morning juice hit like we did when I was a kid. I get all sorts of stuff off-season from my garden that I've canned. It's not the same, so rather than cucumbers, I'm eating pickles, but it's all good.
"And luckily since I've retired early if things get really bad I can move to another country and leave behind the mess he creates."
A downvote for that one.
If you are a US citizen, you'd still have to file US tax returns each year unless you want to pay the exit tax and stand a couple of times for interview with the State department so you can surrender your citizenship. About the country you want to move to, will they welcome you or will they only grant you a temporary visa? No bank account for you nor long term housing lease. Depending on where you go, you might be prevented from buying a home since you wouldn't be a legal resident. Will you have to make a large payment to qualify for health coverage or buy insurance to make up for being a retiree without having paid in at all?
I expect a lot of Hollywood elites find the same issues around moving when they stamp their feet over elections and their favorite party/candidates. None seem to follow through with their threats. They'd have a lot of fun having to apply for a work visa to return so they can take a movie part. Normally, that would be easy, but they had renounced their citizenship which may have an effect.
AFAIK, Trump didn't impose full taxes on Apple products last time - so Apple never had break Job's old promise - "the jobs aren't coming back". That's just an example of the way Trump is willing to make exceptions on a case by case basis - i.e. favoritism. Trump is a traditional Lord, who values fealty and repays with favoritism. For example, I half expect Musk under Trump would be able to import EV parts from China avoiding the full taxes, assemble cars in South America, and sell them in the US at low prices relative to other EV makers.
Personally, I think import taxes on consumer products are a valid tool in a wider strategy. Obviously, a balance has to be struck because many imports are vital components in US exports. It sucks the government has to be involved at all but that's the global playing field that exists.
As for the wider strategy, the US needs more investment in leading edge manufacturing with long turnaround periods. What won't work is enormous handouts to Wall Street, like the 2 trillion USD handouts of pseudo-QE (pseudo Quantitative Easing) where holders of US bonds (financial institutions) were allowed to borrow more against those bonds, which led to a near doubling of the stock market in a year. (Just another way of papering over debt). Rather than leading to investment in manufacturing with long around times, it does the opposite. It rewards those who keep money in short term investments, waiting for the next government handout to reap another windfall.
I doubt Trumps ability to make the necessary fundamental changes, but judicious import taxes on consumer goods in exchange for more manufacturing jobs in the US is a valid way to help working class US workers. Most of that would be paid by middle to upper middle class purchasers of consumer goods, who in total volume consume the most.
Drones and 3d printing equipment come to mind. Currently 3d printing equipment from China based on open source work from the US is about to wipe out the nascent US 3d printing equipment industry. As happened similarly to drones. IMO, protectionism is called for.
Remember there is no 'economic policy' at play here.
There is stuff that will benefit Trump's business directly - as in 2016 but turned-up to 11.
Political stunts that will make the democrats mad / make his base happy, like a ban on vegetarian burgers at McDs and a Million% tariff on French wine
Stuff that will benefit Musk/Thiel/Koch
Stuff that the religious right push through congress and he didn't read cos it didn't have pictures.
Carefully planned economic policy to boost USA hobbyists ? Don't hold your breath.
Stuff that will benefit Musk/Thiel/Koch
Stuff that the religious right push through congress and he didn't read cos it didn't have pictures
I wouldn't say that for sure. Trump is happy to use people so long as he needs them. What does he need Musk for after he takes office? He might find he's now like the invoices that he and Trump famously refuse to pay, he'll have no way to make Trump keep his promises. Heck, Trump might try to force Musk to sign over 10% of his shares in Tesla to him like Putin does in Russia.
Even the religious right might find he's no longer interested in pushing their policies. He obviously has no core beliefs around abortion, but he knew he had to be strongly anti abortion to win the nomination the first time. He was a lot more wishy washy this time, because he knows how unpopular that position is. He's never facing voters again, so why does he care what they want now? Last time he was not only constrained by good people like Kelly and Mattis who held him back from his worst impulses, but constrained by fear of losing his base if he strayed too far from their core beliefs.
Why should he care what the people who have supported him since 2015 want now that they can never vote for him again? He's going to do only what he wants, and what benefits him. I don't see how e.g. a nationwide abortion ban benefits him. Maybe he wants to do it because he knows it'll piss off the people who voted against him, but that's still about him and not about what the people who voted for him want - their interests would just happen to coincidence.
He's taken every position on abortion over the last year. He even took both sides on the Florida initiative, first saying he supported it, then realizing that was bad for him said he'd vote against it, then after the religious right going nuts went back to saying he'd support it.
I think it is hilarious how so many Trumpers are still hiding behind Anonymous Coward. Your guy won and you're still hiding your identity?
"Personally, I think import taxes on consumer products are a valid tool in a wider strategy."
Only if it fosters the manufacture of component parts in the US which is more about processes being banned or subject to such heavy regulation that the parasitic costs overwhelm shipping things thousands of miles and having to deal with the stevedore unions. Plenty of things can't be made in the US at all due to bans that Mexico or China don't have. Sometimes it's a matter of since one or two components can't be made, it's less of a chore to just manufacture the whole finished product overseas with feed-in suppliers closer to hand.
First of all, the capital investment costs of building all the new factories and high tech production lines to reshore manufacturing are going to be horrendous - and American consumers will have to pay those costs back for years in higher prices, which will also have to compete with the chosen import tariff level.
Secondly, most of the rest of the world will still be buying the cheaper Asian goods, but 20% cheaper, which increases their competetiveness compared to USA companies.
Thirdly, Trump will be in office for 4 years max, after which the next election will probably see the policy reversed after all the damage it's done, so many companies will just wait out the time rather than putting shovels in the ground for new factory builds, which will take years anyway.
Exemptions may be available for companies kissing Trumps voluminous rear end enough, but that just destroys any fair competitive market that benefits consumers. But hey, none of these things are really important when you can have fun arguments about who's called who insulting names and who hates the sort of people that you hate, right?
I totally agree with your "every 4 years" assessment. With countries like China and Vietnam, you have a pretty good idea things will be stable for the foreseeable future. America slams itself from reverse to forward and back every 4 or 8 years. Not good for either cars or the country..
You can also start wars with tariffs.
And anyway, wasn't there a war started over "tariffs" back in the day? Something about tea? There's not really a huge difference between taxes and tariffs. The consumer bears the brunt of both. Tariffs are basically a Sales Tax by the back door.
As was mentioned above, judicious use of tariffs as part of an overall trade strategy can be a useful tool, but ridiculously high punitive tariffs just piss everyone off, both the exporting countries trying to sell to you and the customer base in your own country who will either pay a lot more or do without because there is no local supplier.
"You can also start wars with tariffs."
I can think of the rather disgraceful Opium Wars.
There is an unsettling parallel between the current realtions between the US and the PRC and those between the US Administration of FDR and Japan before Pearl Harbour.
You can also start mass starvations and internal revolutions with tariffs, cf. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws>the 1800s corn laws in the UK</a> which led to the Chartist movement, mass hunger and some starvation, people flocking from the countryside to towns & cities to work in the mills as farm labouring didn't pay enough to survive on, etc etc. The preceding was coupled with the industrial revolution as well, plus bad harvests caused by the eruption of Mount Tambora which caused "the year without a summer"
Tariffs have a way of dissolving right after they're put in place. Let's say [NATION] can only sell to [COUNTRY] at very high tariff rates, because (something, something, jobs 'Murica).
Option one:
[NATION] moves manufacturing to a different, friendly, or more acceptable country, and the new DifferentFriendly Co. sells the same products from essentially the same fundamental origin but aren't covered by [COUNTRY]'s nationalist tax, er, "tariff". Third Party Land where DifferentFriendly Co. is, and is *totally* not Mexico Border Place, also gets a boost in skilled jobs and income that, we might note, are not shared with [COUNTRY] who are printing money to pretend to build a wall, but one you can drive midsize light-duty pickup trucks through in salable volumes.
Option two:
[NATION] continues building the same products they already do, the ones that people in [COUNTRY] have been buying all along and like very much. Then nationalist tax, er, "tariff" happens. And [NATION] does something really weird: they take the portion of the products originally destined for [COUNTRY], partially disassemble them (or just don't quite finish assembling them to begin with), put them in tidy boxes with instructions, and send them on to [COUNTRY]. Since boxes of parts are *technically* not the banned or tariffed products, people in [COUNTRY] can either assemble them at home, or, more likely, business partners of [NATION] will spin up a new, barely-over-minimum-wage, totally-not-Amazon-or-Uber-like third-world assembly or "un-chop" shop, AssemblyCompany, LLC, to bolt the bits back together and sell them as completed units at a modest markup. In the automotive industry, these un-chop shops already exist (and have for years for just this reason) and are known as CKDs, for Complete Knock Down kit assemblies.
So, yeah, BAN-ALL-THE-THINGS!!¡, then squint just a bit when everyone is buying them anyway because shopping isn't national pride fight strategy, it's just meeting established needs.
Also, sharing commercial interests binds companies and nations together. You're much less likely to nuke other countries or steal their womens and chirrens if you're successfully doing business with them already. A rising tide actually does lift all ships, except for the ships that have run themselves aground out of spite.
Your mileage may vary.
So are the tariffs to bring jobs back or raise income to replace other tax? If the tariffs work and people start buying local then there will be no tariff income. This of course assumes there is sufficient local supply. Any local supply will be more expensive unless there is massive investment in infrastructure and Americans are willing to work for Chinese pay and conditions. Not to mention parts for assembling products in the US and things like seasonal food.
It is a complete fantasy.
"You want everyone working. "
Then you don't incentivize people to not work. Some on the dole would work, but they can't find a job that pays nearly the same as what they get from the government. If they take a job that pays less, they lose the benefits. If they don't have a job, they have no way to move up the ladder (provided they are clever enough). I don't think it would be too hard to move people from total government assistance to none in stages over a period of time. That and not rewarding having a few more kids.
> bleeding people with leeches when they become ill.
No, no, no, no. Don’t be ridiculous. This isn’t the dark ages. Just pop four in your mouth in the morning and let them dissolve slowly.
Trump raising tariffs 60% vs. China and 20% vs rest of world > U.S. consumers pick up the tab with sudden inflation, probable U.S. recession with retaliatory tariffs then global recession
Harris raising corporate taxes and taxes on ultra-rich > Corporations pick up the tab, their BOD lose a percentage from their $ kazillions / year, U.S. jobs created with the corporate tax increase, lower inflation, soft landing continues
However, rising trade deficit with China also needs to be balanced to get control of long term inflation and slow down USD printing machines. Continued stick and carrot approach of Biden / Harris needs to encourage friend shoring of manufacturing supply chains and reciprocal trade deals negotiated with these new countries.
Their manufacturing margins will be lower as they will now be bidding for contracts as opposed to status quo which is for the West to negotiate with a manufacturing monopolist.
"Trump raising tariffs 60% vs. China and 20% vs rest of world > U.S. consumers pick up the tab with sudden inflation, probable U.S. recession with retaliatory tariffs then global recession"
But, but but he just stated at a rally that he's going to stop inflation!!!! Not sure how that jibes with huge tariffs and the obvious consequent price rises let alone stock market growth.
On the other hand, politicians lie, especially when campaigning. How many coal mines re-opened during his last Presidency?
> But, but but he just stated at a rally that he's going to stop inflation!!!! Not sure how that jibes with huge tariffs and the obvious consequent price rises let alone stock market growth.
There was some guy in the 1930's in Europe promising similar things (jobs and greatness) without knowing how to either and we all know how that worked out............
If you live outside the USA, Trump’s actions will increase the supply of cheap goods, so it would seem non-US residents should delay their tech purchases until after the US election…
The headline is just another example of how far the left pond worldview is permeating ElReg…
I do miss the unbiased El Reg snarkiness. Everyone got snarked, regardless of whether they were worthy of the snark or not.
Lately it seems like El Reg is curating their snarks toward certain geo political viewpoints, and away from others. Many snarky opportunities are passed up because they would tarnish the agenda.
Vote for Free Snarkiness 2024!
The politicians won't say it, so let me. If you support Trump, you're either stupid (enough to believe the Republican lies, Fox News, Putin propoganda, putting someone who managed to bankrupt casios in charge, etc.) or you are garbage (supporting mass deportation, police states, cutting medical, trying to put an end to women's rights). The fact that the election is close shows how close to a fasict leaning nation the US has become, and how despite the lack of success of the wars on poverty, drugs, and terrorism, the Republican war on education has been quite successful. For example an Idaho health department no longer allowed to give COVID vaccinations. Every time one thinks Republicans can't be more stupid, or more immoral, they surprise you.
"The politicians won't say it"
Umm... that is ALL they HAVE been saying! Where have you been the last 9 years? We've not heard a whiff of policy from the dems apart from the odd snippet on twitter about protecting crypto for black men or yet another inflation fuelling handout.
>believe the Republican lies
As opposed to believing the Democrat lies.
>Fox News
I stopped watching ALL cable news decades ago.
>Putin propoganda
The guy who Endorsed Harris?
>supporting mass deportation
Yes. Of the millions of people who crossed the border illegally into the US.
>police states
The only states in recent memory that had extended lockdowns preventing people from going outside were Democrat run. California even arrested a guy who was out surfing by himself.
>cutting medical
Citation required, and not Harris' campaign lies.
>trying to put an end to women's rights
If you're talking about a national abortion ban, Trump already said he'd veto it, otherwise citation really required.
>how close to a fasict leaning nation the US has become
Agreed. So you should not vote for the candidate who wants to expand size and scope of the US Government.
>lack of success of the wars on poverty, drugs, and terrorism
LBJ's War on Poverty has been going on for 60 years with no success. You know what they say about trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. Maybe it's time to try something different.
> the Republican war on education
If only the National Education Association were run by someone who supported Democrats. Oh, wait...
>an Idaho health department no longer allowed to give COVID vaccinations.
The more we learn about the side effects of the COVID19 vaccines, the smarter decisions will look in hindsight.
>Every time one thinks Republicans can't be more stupid, or more immoral, they surprise you.
I can't help you here, you appear to have made up your mind and can only see things one way.
Apple's pricing is already unacceptable!
You mean the pricing for their devices which is roughly similar to similarly specced devices from their competitors? I guess you are arguing that all top-end devices are too expensive then..
(Oh - and you don't have to chuck the Apple devices away after a couple of years unlike some other manufacturers (who stop supporting them after a couple of years). We've stopped buying landfill android at work because, over time, the actual costs are higher what with having to replace them every 2 years when they fall out of support..)
And the UK isn't coping well with its debased currency, sky-high prices, shortages and third world membership.
The EU just stuck a tariff on Chinese EVs and delayed their green transition by a couple of decades.
We need fewer idiot leaders, but for that, we need fewer idiot voters.
This post has been deleted by its author
US election fever!
Anyhoo... I've bought 2 things made in the USA and both were shit. That, plus everything is in wierd measurements means that I buy direct from China on something called the internet. Getting Chinese stuff into the EU is easier than the US stuff because Chinese stuff has the correct paperwork and the US mob can't be arsed.
Not really but if the US were to apply blanket tariffs then apart from breaching WTO commitments there are a host of multilateral and bilateral trade treaties to which the US is a party.
The US on the whole has been a net beneficiary from those treaties as they almost all included advantageous* non trade preconditions such as 75 year copyright (extended from 50 years) and pretty much all the DMCA. If those treaties were voided by US non performance then the counterparties might reverse some of those concessions.
Trump is an even more defective version of Boris Johnson (hardly possible one might think.) Boris could at least spout some classical quote although probably apropos nothing in particular, but Trump only sports irredeemable features and with his rabble would reduce the US to a state more parlous than that of last days of the UK's last Tory government.
* to the US.
"there is another candidate than Trump"
The major problem is that the democrat platform is 'trump trump trump trump'. At a townhall type thing Kamala was asked what she'd do about high prices, spent about 30 seconds of word salad about banning price gouging before launching into an irrelevant pre-programmed 'trump bad' speech.
Something like:
You know, when I say insane asylums, and then I say Dr. Hannibal Lecter. Does anybody know? They go crazy. They say, “Oh, he brings up these names.” And of, well, that’s genius, right? Dr. Hannibal Lecter. There’s nobody worse than him. Silence of the Lambs. Who the hell else would even remember that? I have a great memory. But they always hit me. I don’t bring it up too much, because they have to take such a—“he brought up Hannibal Lecter, what does that have to do with this? What does it—” It has everything to do with it, right? He was, that’s who we’re allowing into our country. And we don’t want to allow that into our country. So I’ve done something for you that I haven’t done in 20 speeches. I’ve brought up Dr. Hannibal Lecter. And we’re allowing him in. You watch, these fake people will say, “Again he brought up Hannibal Lecter. Has absolutely nothing to do.” You know I do the weave, right? The weave. It’s genius. You bring up Hannibal Lecter. You mention insane asylum, Hannibal Lecter, you go, oh. Now, there’ll be a time in life when the weave won’t finish properly at the bottom. And then we can talk. But right now it’s pure genius, hey. I have an uncle, my uncle, Uncle John, my father’s brother. Forty-one years at MIT, longest-serving professor. So many degrees he didn’t know what the hell to do with them all. And the most complicated—I understand a lot of this stuff. You know, I believe in that. I mean, Jack Nicklaus is not going to produce a bad golfer. Right? You know, that’s the way it works. Uh, it’s just one of those things. It’s in the family, and it’s—whatever. But we have to save this country. We’d better save this country. https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-wheels-on-the-bus-go-off-and
Every accusation....
"This post is hidden from public view because one of its ancestors has been deleted by a moderator."
Certainly remove offensive posts quickly. But deleting them 3 days later and losing a rich seam of classic el'reg sarcastic responses to the USA loons seems a little off.
If I were an American poster I would now insert a long enraged diatribe about 1st amendment and the Deep State.
Instead I shall have a cup of tea. Unless that triggers any of the new readers in Boston
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