Windows 10 given an extra year of supported life, for $30

Microsoft has thrown a lifeline to Windows 10 users ahead of the OS going end-of-life, by offering an extra year of patches for $30. Support for Windows 10 ends in October 2025 and Redmond is pushing people to upgrade to Windows 11, with mixed success to date – as of last month, Windows 10 had 62.75 percent of Redmond's OS …

[may_i]

Cruel

"Or perhaps 2025 will be the year of Linux on the desktop. ®"

We can but hope! The company I work for is rolling out Windows 11 at speed, so the corporate resistance appears to be minimal. Thankfully, I can keep their virus caged in virtual machines on my Linux desktop.

I might have to get some VMs upgraded eventually...

[GioCiampa]

Re: Cruel

"The company I work for is rolling out Windows 11 at speed"

Likewise here (NHS) - not sure whether the migration will work remotely or not (I'm 100+ miles from the physical office), but on the upside, any excuse to pop into the Wellington in Brum city centre works for me...

[GioCiampa]

Re: Cruel

Update... the migration kicked in last week... much to my surprise it went flawlessy (apart from the ending up with Windows 11 part).

[sammystag]

Re: Cruel

It certainly might help. This was the push I needed to install Mint on my old but still good laptop.

The OS is increasingly irrelevant. How many users need anything that isn't available on Windows, Linux and Mac?

Moving for me highlighted just how shit Windows is nowadays. I now have an OS that can cope with a USB-C monitor with integrated hub without having to plug it in three or four times before the keyboard and mouse work. Better still, it includes a scanner tool that can handle multiple pages and create a PDF without having to search for a free replacement for the crap in Windows. I can use Docker without a massive faff involving WSL. Brilliant! There's certainly no going back.

[Dave K]

Re: Cruel

Hmm, I'm not sure sure about minimal resistance. I've seen a lot of companies stick to Windows 10 for quite some time. I'd say it's more a case of having to upgrade to W11 to avoid paying lots of charges for extra support rather than wanting to. Of course there's also been a lot of delays whilst companies have waited for hardware Refresh programmes to deplete the amount of "incompatible" devices on their estates.

Now we're down to <1 year of "free" support left, and the fact that most machines on the estate will be compatible (excluding a few 5+ year old devices), we're now entering a time when the W11 upgrade projects are gathering steam. But like I say, upgrading because they have to, not because they see any real benefit from Win11.

[Missing Semicolon]

Re: Cruel

Would companies consider using ChromeOsFlex? It works perfectly well as a Microsoft365 terminal.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cruel

Well, Windows 10 was supposed to be the last version of Windows ever, right?

I suppose it will be true, at least where I am concerned.

[Persona]

Re: Cruel

Maybe, but which? Ubuntu, Arch, Mint, Manjaro, SteamOS, other

The adoption of a Linux desktop could become mainstream if there wasn't so much choice.

[Boris the Cockroach]

If

they remove the stupid hardware requirements, then maybe the share would go up faster........................

But then, if they dont and people go linux (or mac) they will not come back to windows in future years.....

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: If

If they did remove the H/W requirement they'd upset all their friends in the H/W business and they wouldn't get all the licence money from the new H/W sales.

[Numen]

Re: If

And it would really upset everyone who had already replaced otherwise perfectly functional hardware to be able to run Windows 11.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: If

This is Microsoft. Once they've got you money they won't care how you feel about that.

[karlkarl]

Many people would have paid $30 to *stop* the useless patches through the lifespan of Windows 10.

[doublelayer]

Any of those people who knew what they were doing would use one of the twenty easy methods of stopping the updates. Some of those people might find they regretted it. It's really not that hard to do so. That applies to Windows 11 as well, whether it's a consumer or an IT department.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

"Any of those people who knew what they were doing would use one of the twenty easy methods of stopping the updates"

I consider myself IT savvy, but could never stop W10 updates permanently. Whatever I did they would always reactivate themselves after a few weeks or so. Whether it was GUI settings, registry changes, disabling services etc. nothing worked permanently.

It had the effect of making my old W10 machine very secure - because I stopped using it.

[xyz]

Yeah... I have updates off and my bloody win 10 laptop updated itself yesterday... and it hadn't been connected to the Internet for a week. You explain it.

[Anonymous Coward]

All you need to do is disable the update service and then change the permissions on the service so that system can not make any changes. Did that on a PC that was used for movies and VR that wasn't used for anything else. That was after an update kept causing the oc to crash, rollback, try to reinstall, over and over again.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Can't say for certain, but that does sound the sort of thing I frequently did, to no avail. Hopefully it'll help someone else here but for me, my windows days are behind me (except for corporate stuff but that's not my problem).

[doublelayer]

My experience was very different. I didn't like the idea of automatic updates when I first used Windows 10, so I disabled them and would review the list before manually installing them. My approach worked fine for at least two years, but I eventually decided to turn it off and take the updates anyway. I've seen people who had specific requirements doing the same things, although they often use WSUS to manage it because they work in IT and I only wanted to manage personal machines that way. I have a feeling that, if it's a big enough problem, you can find a way that is more reliable and the internet will probably help quite a lot, though I wouldn't try many of the registry hacks suggested because people often post registry hacks that look plausible and don't work on my machine for some reason.

[m4r35n357]

That'll definitely work, because they won't come back demanding more later, will they?

[Grunchy]

"stop the useless patches"

I think I did this by installing the "ghost spectre," "Hallowe'en Edition" of Windows (both Win7 and Win10).

I don't think Microsoft can do any more updates? I'm not sure!

Anyway they are VMs, the 1st thing I did was take a snapshot and create numerous clones. I shared a folder from Linux via Samba, that's my transfer folder between sanctuary and all the Microsoft Wastelands. The Windows are isolated from the internet (and the network, for that matter): I don't let Microsoft go snooping around. If it sets off a self-destruct bomb, no sweat, I can easily restore the snapshot.

You know what, operating like this the last couple of years I have cheerfully forgotten how tyrannical Microsoft and Apple are. Because they aren't allowed to be any more, inside their tiny little cages!

[Mike Lewis]

Powerful Hardware?

> Windows 11 is one of Microsoft's most poorly performing operating systems, in part due to the powerful hardware it requires.

Windows 11 is running quite happily on my thirteen-year-old Intel i5-2400. I did have to use Rufus to bypass the TPM requirement when installing it.

[Mostly Irrelevant]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

What Microsoft is trying to achieve here is lack of responsibility for security or stability on machines without a TPM. If anyone who hacked Windows 11 to install on unsupported hardware they get to duck liability.

And liability is something corporates don't like to have to deal with.

[Yankee Doodle Doofus]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

The TPM requirement isn't the only thing Rufus bypassed for you. That processor is 6 generations behind the oldest Intel CPU which Win11 officially supports.

[gratou]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

It's not like these 6 generations changed much...

[Old Shoes]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

There are some new CPU instructions added in the past decade. Depending on your compiler optimisations you may or may not get code that uses them. If Microsoft targeted modern CPUs when they built Windows 11 then you will hit errors when one of those new instructions comes up.

Because you can run Windows on a 6 generation behind CPU it seems like they’ve targeted quite an old instruction set.

Or that there hasn’t been any interesting new software instruction since popcnt a decade ago.

[game-tea]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

Not for Windows itself no, but it sets a new baseline of minimum supported instruction set extensions (AVX etc) for application developers.

[Cashiers]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

New generations have Performance cores and Efficiency Cores.. Definitely not something i can say i am missing by just thinking about that functionality vs what is already available

[collinsl]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

They changed enough unfortunately - Win 11 24H2 now insists on certain flags and won't install at all without them being present. The bypasses appear to have been disabled.

[JoeCool]

Re: Powerful Hardware?

That's about sales performance, not cpu performance. The linked article is about market share.

[elsergiovolador]

No more

I think that Microshaft could make more money if they offered $30 for no more updates.

[m4r35n357]

Re: No more

. . . and that will _definitely_ be the end of the matter ;)

[EvaQ]

$30 ... how to be paid?

So how is my father/sister/neighbour going to pay that $30? To whom?

My father/sister/neighbour has no financial relationship with Microsoft. That Windows 10 was on the PC they bought 5+ years ago.

Cay they buy a license at online retailers?

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

It's quite simple, really.

Log in to Microsoft.com with your Microsoft user ID and then follow the prompts.

Oh. You never registered one? Well, here is the new user page. Remember to fill in all of the information that you're asked. No, really, we do need to know what brand of car you drive and what washing powder you use, and your healthcare insurance provider. Yes, and click the boxes that allow Microsoft to scan all your files for 'vulnerabilities', and to allow them to modify the system to increase your 'user experience', and work out what ad's your most likely to respond to.

Don't forget the payment method you want to use. Make it one that will accept recurring payments, because you may need to take advantage of our cloud services at a later time to keep this system running.

[Bebu]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

"...we do need to know what brand of car you drive and what washing powder you use..."

Stop right there! Who in the 21st century uses powder?

Ah, it is MS asking - figures.

Anyway I wouldn't pay MS USD30/yr but then I don't run W10.* I recall W7 had some hack which enabled your oem or retail W7 to grab and install extended support patches from MS gratis.

So I imagine some intrepid chap beyond the reach of the long arm of the DMCA might oblige with the same for W10.

_{* only a Win98 vm for an ancient version of dictionary application which went all web years ago.}

[DoctorPaul]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

Was that BypassESU? Worked a treat and kept me on W7 until earlier this year.

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid? @Bebu

Well, at least in the UK, the supermarkets still sell powder, so I guess people still do.

We recently had to replace our machine (drum bearings - £10 part cost, several hundred in labour costs for the difficult repair of the old one*, so guess what we opted to do).

The instructions on the new machine (once we found them on the Internet, the full set weren't supplied with the machine) strongly discouraged using power rather than liquid capsules, and made it very difficult to select a hot wash.

Only problem is that we have family members with ultra-sensitive skin, so almost all of the modern bio-digesters that are added to current washing detergents to allow colder washes can't be used.

Another example of the 80/20 rule, only producing products for the majority of the customers.

^{* There are inner and outer bearings. The outer ones aren't to difficult to change, but the inner ones are inside the plastic water containment vessel which is glued and clipped shut, such that you can't open it. Another case of a product designed to be irreparable.}

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid? @Bebu

Wow, What a typo. A washing machine where they discourage the use of power. That would be a real dream.

Break out the tub, washing dolly and mangle. I'll tell the SO that they need to start weight training to enable them to do the washing (currently I'm not allowed to use the washing machine, because that is their domain, not that I am complaining)

[NXM]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid? @Bebu

If it helps, the stainless drum from your old washer makes an excellent planter or wood burner for outdoor evenings if you bolt some legs to it.

If you want a washer or dehumidifier, get an Ebac. They have a long warranty and we've always found their customer service, if you need it, wxc llent.

[Missing Semicolon]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid? @Bebu

Replaced the bearings in our Bosch a few years ago - split the plastic drum with a chisel, then resealed it and bolted it back together. The glued plastic drum had bosses to take retrofit screws. Took me 3 days of evenings. Motor went voom 3 months later.

[Martin an gof]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid? @Bebu

What's the problem with powder? Is it just that it's more difficult to dissolve at 30C?

We have sensitive skin too and we use an old-fashioned non-bio powder.

The constant mantra to wash at 30C (or less) neglects two key facts:

• it has much less impact on reducing Carbon than you think. Put a measuring plug on the machine and run a "full" 30C cycle and compare with a full 60C cycle. I haven't done this for some time, but the last time I tried the difference was something relatively small; something like 0.5kWh against 0.7kWh, partly because the machine only spends a relatively short amount of time at the full 60C. I would do it again, but we rarely use 40C these days and only use 30C if there is some item of clothing which absolutely desperately can't be washed any hotter. Oh, and if you are on an all-renewable tariff then there is very little Carbon output anyway (hypothesised)
• 40C and colder doesn't kill many bugs and bacteria. Manufacturers know this, so they encourage the use of anti-bacterial add-ons and smell-masking add-ons. These add significantly to the cost of each wash - again, when I looked at it a few years ago the cost of the wash add-ons was more than the cost of the electricity saved. Oh, and what about the Carbon used in their manufacture?

Also consider the fact that washing liquids invariably come in plastic packaging while washing powders are usually in cardboard. While bottled liquids (gels) can be dosed like powder, liquid in pods cannot so could be wasteful for small or lightly-soiled loads. We find that at 60C even the basic powder we use doesn't need quite as much in the drawer as is implied on the side of the box.

When we were using cloth nappies of course, those were washed at the 90C / 95C setting. I hope they never take that option away!

Sorry, one of my pet peeves.

M.

[James O'Shea]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

Heh. I signed into deepest MS as this fine gentleman: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_medium/2/26751/623058-weapon1.jpg

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_Brown for more about him.

MS had best behave themselves or I'll feed them to Snoopy.

[doublelayer]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

You are probably correct. That is one of the things I dislike most about modern Windows. Almost nobody needs or wants a Microsoft account. I suppose people who buy personal Microsoft 365 subscriptions need one, but almost nobody needs that either. Fortunately there are still methods of bypassing the account login part even on Windows Home, but I set up Windows devices infrequently enough that I have to figure it out each time.

[Mostly Irrelevant]

Re: $30 ... how to be paid?

I bet it'll show up on the store app with a "helpful" popup. Microsoft always makes it easy to pay them more money.

[Blackjack]

Been using Linux since 2009, and the last Windows I bought was 7, mostly because my XP machine that I used for games was dying.

I honesty don't like Windows 10 or 11. Wine is not perfect but I prefer not being able to play some games to having to use Windows 10 or 11.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hear hear. I switched to Linux a year after XP went EOL. Can't believe I didn't do it sooner. As you said, Wine isn't perfect, but aside from a handful of games (which might not work under W10/W11 anyway!) I haven't found anything it can't do that Windows can.

[Peter Gathercole]

I know I am an outlier, but for my own personal needs, I started using Linux as my main OS from about 1998 (although I must declare that I was a hardened UNIX user long before that, and never really adopted any Microsoft OS for my own use).

I've still used Windows when I absolutely had to, but the biggest drawback with using Linux is not the OS itself, but the software vendors (and hardware vendors supplying software for their hardware) who ignore Linux as a platform. This is not the fault of the Linux community or the main distros.

I understand must-have applications, the lock-in Microsoft have had regarding office software, and how people like Adobe can force customers into using a particular OS if they want/need to use a particular killer app, but beyond this, I cannot see why people think Linux is not usable for most day-to-day tasks people do, especially today with some very slick distros out there. I have done for over 25 years, and beside the previously mentioned points, it's served me well.

This make me think that Windows is kept as the primary OS really just by momentum and market acceptance, and Windows being the de-facto software most computers are shipped with.

This furore over Windows 11 will soon be over. As soon as people who want PCs (rather than those who use 'Phones or internet appliances like 'smart' TVs as their internet experience) need to upgrade, and they get new devices that come with Windows 11 installed, this outrage about still functional PCs dropping out of OS support will fall by the wayside. This limited extension of support may just be what will quieten down the discussion and outrage to get to this point in the natural replacement cycle of systems.

Most people won't worry about the data and land grab that is going on at the same time

So whilst I can see the current situation leading to some limited additional take up of Linux, in the grand scheme of things, it's not going to make a huge difference.

[Blackjack]

The Killer App for Windows Is Microsoft Excel. The rest of Microsoft Office can be easily replaced by LibreOffice but business are so Excel dependent is insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

LibreOffice Calc seems pretty much bug for bug compatible to Excel. There are some UI items that are different enough that your typical heavy Excel user might not be happy, but otherwise seems ok.

Outlook is the big one for lots of people. It's so imgrained in a typical office environment.

[Tron]

The problem lies with management.

These are people who cannot wire a plug. If they knew about tech, they would be in a position to enforce a switch to Linux. If everyone in the corporate switched, it wouldn't be an issue. And it would cost a hell of a lot less. That last point may be one to explore. Executives don't give a toss about tech, but if they can reduce the cost and switch it to their bonuses, Linux would take off.

Oh, and I still use washing powder.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The problem lies with management.

Took on an understudy earlier this year. Selected by management as one of the more tech-savvy on the shop floor. Asked me for some interview questions, totally ignored them.

Said understudy took over 30 minutes to put a plug on the end of some 1.5mm² flex*. Took five minutes to work out how to open up the plug, another five minutes to look up some instructions online (ignoring the bit of card with printed instructions which came with the plug), ten minutes to work out how to strip the outer without nicking the cores and how to cut the individual wires to length and strip them and another ten minutes of juggling to work out how to get the wires into the correct holes and what to do with the cable grip. I did my best not to intervene, while wiring up the other end of the flex into a 4-way socket strip (took less than 10 minutes, and it was a bloomin' awkward strip), but eventually had to demonstrate that the "bridge" type cable grip could be inverted to cope with fatter cables.

Same understudy - who claimed to be totally au-fait with computer technology - looked on slack-jawed as I clicked a motherboard, processor, memory and SSD into an empty case prior to installing a test system. Their own computer - a reasonably chunky gaming rig by all accounts - was built for them by "a local specialist, friend of a friend".

Kids these days.

*yes, they do still teach children how to wire a plug in school. At least, my children had that lesson. Sort of lessons my kids used to love cos they would often end up helping the teacher get the less practical members of the class sorted. Another example was how to lace up a sewing machine. There were several more.

[Blackjack]

Re: The problem lies with management.

[they do still teach children how to wire a plug in school.]

I learned how to make a box in carpentry class and how to use Excel in computer class, no electronics class whatsoever. Then again this was in the late 90s/early 2000s.

[DoctorPaul]

Been looking to move my main workhorse to Linux for a long time, the problem being that I'm running 6 monitors and 2 graphics cards and the Nvidia drivers can't cope. So it's off to eBay where another HP Z230 cost me £38 and a pair of AMD 4 port graphics cards were £19 each.

Slowly building the system using Mint 22 and liking the results. The only missing component is a media browser for my albums. I just want something like iTunes where I can browse albums by the cover art, should be spoilt for choice right? Wrong, cannot find a single player for Linux with this ability. Really?

[Doctor Syntax]

"browse albums by the cover art, ... cannot find a single player for Linux with this ability. Really?"

I'm not sure quite what you mean by that but by coincidence this popped up on a news link elsewhere today and seems as if it might be what you describe: https://www.linuxlinks.com/recordbox-simple-sweet-music-player/2/

[Brave Coward]

Kodi is another solution allowing to browse albums by cover art.

Have it running for many years on my Ubuntu desktop as well as a RPi 3 under RaspberryPi OS, that one feeding my DAT.

Good point: it accepts the Apple Lossless encoding (had my music library on ITunes for a while, just like you), as well as Flac. Another interesting feature is the ability to play your whole library randomly - I use it quite a lot.

[Grubby Mittens]

Have you tried Lollypop?

https://wildskyf.github.io/lollypop-web/

[YetAnotherXyzzy]

Yet another Linux music player that lets you browser by album art is Quod Libet.

[Nate Amsden]

nice to see

Hopefully they offer LTSC to consumers in the future as well(Though I'm not holding my breath of course). I run LTSC(which was a super annoying process for the company to buy as their normal reseller didn't know what it was and couldn't figure it out) as my main Win 10 VM on my linux system, build 1809 supported till Jan 2029. Super strange to me that LTSC 21H2 (the last LTSC I guess) only supported til 2027 by contrast(except for IoT which goes to 2032, why not just make both enterprise and IoT 2032 they have to make the same fixes anyway, stupid).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history

MS teams always bugs me saying that teams classic is unsupported and I should upgrade. Though last I checked I could not upgrade as the newer teams is not compatible, also read that classic teams will continue to be supported on LTSC windows regardless (I assume till LTSC EOL but not sure).

[Richard 12]

Re: nice to see

Because they really, really don't want to make those patches at all.

They'll simply forced to because nobody would buy the IoT edition if it didn't have that long a lifetime, and they know that once the embedded customers move to Linux they will never, ever come back.

[Nursing A Semi]

So...

People paid for an OS "yes probably bundled with their desktop/laptop" which most sensible folk would admit is so full of design flaws it requires regular security fixes.

Now MS has drawn a line in the sand and said from this date you will need to pay us for those security fixes or leave yourself even more open than usual to viruses and malware of various flavours.

Had they not been developing the fixes anyway they might get away with that. But them knowing that a vulnerability exists thus a fix is required, developing said fix then refusing to give it to their customer base unless they pay extra? I smell a class action inbound to further enrich the legal profession.

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: So...

Pretty sure there'll be a way round paying at all within about 5 seconds of the whole thing starting.

[doublelayer]

Re: So...

That's not new, and although someone might sue, it hasn't worked before and probably won't work now. Android phone manufacturers don't get sued because they didn't bother pushing a security update. Apple doesn't get sued because they decided a perfectly functioning Mac won't get any updates anymore, a lifetime they've been shortening with every release. Microsoft has no technical reason to justify failing to provide the updates, but I don't think they have to prove one.

The closest it might come is consumer protection legislation, but that legislation generally has a specific lifetime. As far as Microsoft is concerned, they will say that anything less than seven years of age can be updated to Windows 11 for free, so therefore it's on the user if they didn't, and anything older than seven years, assuming that it can't also be updated under their unnecessary hardware rules, is past the lifetime specified in the law. Android OEMs routinely get by with significantly less support, so that argument will probably work.

[gfx]

Re: So...

Microsoft already did that when they did not support updates for Windows XP with a FCKGW- key Everything was riddled with mallware.

[navarac]

Ruuning scared?

So, Microsoft have finally woken up to the fact that their "scam" (in cahoots with hardware manufacturers) to require new PCs for W11, is still at a crawl. I could understand if a new PC was needed to run the OS, but it isn't. W11 is still W10 with a new coat of lipstick on the pig that is Windows. W11 runs perfectly well on "reasonably" older hardware. and most people, especially consumers, aren't falling for the arbitrary requirement to spend £/$ 1000+ for no legitimate reason. Marketing is running roughshod over sense, but most marketeers do, don't they?

[anonymous boring coward]

Right...

So you have a security issue, which is your fault, and you fixed it, but won't give it to me unless I pay you more?

[mark l 2]

There is nothing new about MS charging for patches when the OS goes EOL, they have been doing it for decades for business users, its only this time that they are offering it to home users as well.

So how is this time any different than when Windows XP or 7 went EOL but MS continued to develop patches for business users willing to pay for extended support? No one successfully sued Microsoft for that back then and i doubt they will this time either.

As for the year of the Linux desktop, Normal people don't want to start downloading Linux ISOs, burning them to USB sticks, working out how to access the boot menu to be able to install another OS.

Windows wouldn't be the dominant PC OS if users had to do that to get it working on new PCs. (BTW im not normal so im happy to do that to get rid of Windows)

So for mainstream Linux adoption It will require large PC manufacturers to offer Linux pre-installed on computers that end users can go and buy from stores or order online. Look how successful the stream deck have been is because you bought it and it already had Linux (Steam OS) installed. if it had come with Windows by default and you needed to download and flash it with Steam OS from a USB stick, only a fraction of buyers would bother doing that and just go with what came preinstalled. The same can be said for Chromebooks which sell in 10s of millions of units a year because ChromeOS is preinstalled and they are widely available to purchase.

BTW im typing this on a Lenovo laptop which they were happy to ship with FreeDOS instead of Windows preinstalled, but no Linux option available when i purchased.

[Doctor Syntax]

Just as Microsoft doesn't want to upset H/W vendors by not having a version of Windows designed to promote H/W sales, so the H/W vendors don't want to upset Microsoft by selling Linux pre-installed.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Normal people don't want to start downloading Linux ISOs, burning them to USB sticks, working out how to access the boot menu to be able to install another OS."

... Find a friendly neighborhood 12-year-old. Problem solved.

I've seen that work!

[PB90210]

Doesn't ChromeOS go EOL on an equally regular basis?

Beware of cheap Chromebooks...

[Jimmy2Cows]

who can't because their PCs aren't capable of running Windows 11

As has been said a million times, it's nothing to do with capability, but permission. MS chose to shoot themselves in the foot by applying arbitrary hardware requirements that blocked otherwise perfectly capable machines. Talk about not being able to read the room.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: who can't because their PCs aren't capable of running Windows 11

They are not shooting themselves in the foot. H/W has been good enough for a long time. New H/W wasn't selling in anything like enough quantities for the manufacturers and from Microsoft's point of view no H/W sales means not new licences. They make nothing at all by letting you upgrade W10 to W11. They make money if you want W11 and have to go out to by new H/W because that sells a new licence. It would be allowing all the older W10 machines to upgrade that would be shooting themselves in the foot.

So why, do you ask, are Microsoft now making this offer to those who won't upgrade? The answer to that is obvious; $30.

Follow the money.

[NewModelArmy]

$30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

Isn't this a no brainer for people who have a laptop (or desktop) which is more than capable of running their applications so don't need a new machine ?

Even if you pay $30 per year for 5 years, then that is $150 which is a lot cheaper than a new laptop (or desktop), by quite a margin.

[katrinab]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

Isn't it going to be $30, then $60, then $120, then $240, then $480? For a total of $930. At which point a new laptop might look at bit more appealing.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

Article indicates that for Enterprise users, but does not state explicitly for home users.

[williamyf]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

For a person who allegedly read the article, you failed to notice that normies like us only get one year of ESU, and the ESU itself only lasts 3 years, not 5

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

You seem to take kindly to being extorted?

I would just not pay and seek alternative solutions.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

Not really, i was just commenting on the cost aspect.

What i am surprised at, is that this is not examined, investigated, or commented upon by the EU or other authorities.

[anonymous boring coward]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

I'm sure it will be.

[doublelayer]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

They need a legal basis to do so. I'm not sure what that legal basis is. Microsoft is charging for access to code updates, which is annoying and only necessary because they did another annoying thing by having unnecessary hardware requirements for Windows 11. Neither of those annoying things is illegal. What is your proposed violation justifying an investigation, and it has to be solid so that a penalty can be assessed at the end of said investigation. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it illegal.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

This is a difficult one. The EU has article 102 for :

"Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States.""

A sub statement is :

(b) limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers;

Microsoft is not affecting trade between states, nor is it prejudicing customers as per sub statement.

Yet, Microsoft does have a monopoly, and uses that to ensure that it can force the majority of people to either scrap their functional machine and purchase a new one, or pay a subscription to continue to secure their product (Windows 10).

Microsoft is prejudicing customers by nature of forcing them to take one option or the other, based on their customers ignorance.

Microsoft Recall is "now" an option, yet there is bad behaviour with Microsoft forcing people to use their online account system (from what i have read, as i use Linux) when using their software, unless you jump through hoops to stop it. Not everyone knows how to do this.

Even now, the UK government documents use Microsoft proprietary formats for documentation such as Word or Excel. Although LibreOffice can open them, it is still supporting a closed standard.

For people on this site, then Microsofts approach is an issue, but there is ignorance and acceptance by the authorities and the UK people (and others) of Microsofts abuse of power.

I do find it strange that for PC's, everyone (in general) just accepts it is either a Mac (OS and hardware) or Windows (OS for PC), yet for so many other products, a single supplier would never be accepted.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

I don't doubt that 30 X 5 is 150, but I doubt it will be 30/year for 5 years. The article says that 30 will only be for a year and that enterprise and educational establishments will see their rental doubling every year, I suspect home users will too.

And let's not forget, this is to carry on using something that you bought outright and took ownership of with the expectation of being able to use it indefinitely. Now Microsoft are turning it into a rental arrangement under the threat of "security". Imagine that pair of pants you bought 5 years ago now means M&S are charging you 30 a year so you can keep cleaning (ie maintaining) them.

I know lack of security updates doesn't mean you can't still use it, but I expect Microsoft to gradually cripple the functionality over time under the pretence of "security protection". They have dinner that before with Windows components.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

took ownership of with the expectation of being able to use it indefinitely.

At the risk of being downvoted for looking like an M$ apologist, which I'm not....

You can totally continue to use it indefinitely. It doesn't stop being operable, it just stops getting updates. It really winds me up that the end-of-supported-life thing gets keeps getting spun as end-of-life-roll-down-the-curtain-and-join-the-choir-invisible.

I've run and continue to run Windows machines in the majority for home (alongside a modest Linux fleet) and have never (like never ever) applied a single Windows update. My machine and my software work, and I don't want to run the risk of the status quo being b******d up by a rogue update from Microsoft.

Attack surface? Realistically, when was the last time you connected a WIndows box the the Internet? I mean, connected it directly to the Internet, like via a modem? I can't remember the list time I did. My Windows boxen are all on my home LAN, behind a router which blocks random s**t coming in from public Internet. So long as I exercise caution in what I do when I'm using those machines, all is good.

I retired an XP laptop (c. 2010 vintage) last year that had lived an update-free and trouble-free life until the cooling fans got a bit breaky.

Don't let them con you into thinking than unsupported means unusable.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

For the security, isn't the problem that some sites can be compromised, and then your machine can be infected ?

Anyway, Microsoft have a monopoly, and for the requirements for Windows 11 they are knowingly forcing people to purchase a new machine, when they really don't need to purchase a new one.

The $30 for the year (initial, but later ?) is something "helpful" to use the machine securely, but Microsoft should not have such control over what is nearly the entire home computing deployment (ignoring mobiles and tablets)

The general public are not aware of other operating systems, just Windows PC's or Apple Macs.

Unless there is a campaign to show the general public that Linux exists, and most of what they want to do is possible on Linux, then Microsoft will keep their monopoly.

We are also a throwaway culture here in the west, so those good enough machines will just be scrapped.

It is sad that Microsofts attitude has a severe environmental impact, but again, unless the US or EU do something, then we are stuck with them.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

Upvote for pointing out that it doesn't cease working. But your malware can arrive by email that will be passed through your firewall or by some malicious web-site or advert that will also pass through your firewall.

[Mike 125]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

> You can totally continue to use it indefinitely.

It's the home V professional user divide which matters here.

> when was the last time you connected a WIndows box the the Internet? I mean, connected it directly to the Internet, like via a modem?

2005, Germany, new Toshiba XP machine (nothing work related I stress), WUpdate disabled (wasn't in the mood to wait), from a hotel, and just a modem and dial-up outside line.

The Tosh was unusable within about 15 minutes. (OK I can admit to some marginally dodgy site visits... hey- gimme a break- it was a lonely time... in Germany!).

But I'd made a disk image in full knowledge of the risk, and about an hour or so later, the Tosh was clean, rinsed, and updated. (And yes, still lethal for dodgy internet with no firewall!)

Pros (in a home environment) know instinctively what not to do in the first place, and likely know at least some of the symptoms of infection after the fact. So for them, maintaining an old machine is safe.

Home users don't have that instinct. For them, there's no distinction between running an executable sent by a random Facebook 'friend', and editing a local text file in Notepad.

I welcome 2025- loads of cheap lappys available...

And I'm still hovering between Linux and the hateful, monopolistic piece of sh't that is (and always was), MSoft.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

"The article says that 30 will only be for a year"

Could this be an indication that W12 is scheduled for the end of that year?

[doublelayer]

Re: $30 Per Year is Cheaper Than a New Laptop

I doubt it. I expect a lot of people will do the following. From least to most popular, the likely actions are:

1. Install Linux on the computer and use that. A few people who don't want to install Windows 11 will take this opportunity to switch when they haven't before.

2. Use the methods to install Windows 11 on their computer, bypassing the hardware checks. Theoretically, this might stop working at some point, but if Microsoft was going to do that, they would probably have done it earlier.

3. Run Windows 10 without any security updates, assuming it will be fine.

4. Run Windows 10 without any security updates, not even knowing that they're doing it. I've seen that with XP boxes, Vista boxes, 7 boxes, 8 boxes, and I expect it will happen some more.

This $30 for a year of updates is a possible option if you know or have reason to suspect that Windows 11 will break something in your workflow. Otherwise, if you need Windows, option 2 is a free method of having the security updates and not having to discard your hardware. I doubt many consumers will be buying it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on folks, do you really want to remain a member of the put another dollar in club forever?

The product is shoddier by the day, and they have you on the hook for a subscription...

What more do you need convincing by!

[m4r35n357]

At this point I am not sure anything will. You would probably have more success trying to convert an anti-vaxxer ;)

[Wade Burchette]

Coming soon ...

Coming soon, the all new Windows 12. It will be completely free, but if you want any updates, that will cost you $10 for the first year, but $30 for every year thereafter. Or, the fee can be waived if you provide Microsoft your personal information, agree to activate S-mode, use only Edge to browse websites, and purchase 5 apps each year from the Microsoft store or subscribe to Microsoft 365. Of course, education and government institutions will get all of this for free without restrictions so that they can instruct people on how to use Windows 12.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Coming soon ...

"so that they can instruct people on how to use Windows 12."

Other verbs are available: indoctrinate and brainwash.

[BenMyers]

Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Not only does Windows 11 require newer hardware, but it's desktop UI is a regression in usability from Windows 10. Here we are with the OS claimed to be the best ever UI, but the start menu is so cumbersome that it is faster for me to type the program name in the search bar and then hit enter. Worse yet, the Microsofties have not listened to three years of unrelenting criticism about Windows' design, and they have not changed anything significant.

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Yes, this whole "type in a search box" reminds me of the Editor wars, where Emacs was always complained at because it needed arcane commands in a command window (even though that wasn't true, even then).

Or even the GUI/CLI debate.

But now it seems that it's OK to type commands in? Oh how the world has changed.

[LBJsPNS]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

"You're running Linux? But that means you have to use the command line!!"

[katrinab]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

vi requires arcane commands in a command window ...

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Nah, vi's OK. It's Emac's that's arcane.

[katrinab]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Both are arcane.

[doublelayer]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

This is a critique of Windows I've seen since they put a search box in, and it's one I don't get. I can still have desktop icons or start menu entries for applications and use those quite conveniently to launch things. However, I do admit that I often use the typing a program name method. I like that method. It's fast and generally works well. For similar reasons, I like having a CLI available, although I would prefer to have both CLI and GUI options. What's wrong with having something CLI-esque there?

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Nothing. I have no problem with both being available.

But making it so some things can only be found using the search box, on an OS that is supposed to be WIMP point and click seems to be a little hypocritical.

[Yankee Doodle Doofus]

Re: Windows 11 is a mess cobbled in Redmond

Indeed. I love hitting the super (windows) key and typing the first few letters of the application that I want. This is now my main method of launching applications in both Windows and Linux systems. That said, this only works if you know the name of the application. If you forgot the name, or aren't even sure if the machine you are using has an app suitable for what you are trying to do, having a categorized app menu is nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bargain?

I think my (educational) enterprise will see $7 as great value for three years longer before they have to replace my ageing PC. (They've just been landed with a big tax bill.)

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: Bargain?

If this is the UK, losing charitable status may mean that they can't get the educational rate. I guess it depends on the wording of the terms and conditions of the offer.

And the VAT is not meant to be paid by the school, but by the parents, and National Insurance was not meant to be a 'tax', although I struggle to see the difference.

Labour have wanted to destroy the private school system for decades. Looks like this time they're really going for it.

[Keith Langmead]

Define "consumer"

One possible question mark will be what they define as a "consumer". Will it literally be anyone who is a consumer, eg they're a private individual and it's their own person computer, or will it simply be "Windows 10 Home edition"? Obviously not an issue for the majority of consumers, but I'm sure I can't be the only one in tech running Pro edition at home as the extra price was worth not having the Home edition annoyances.

[katrinab]

Re: Define "consumer"

I think it will be Home Edition

[Keith Langmead]

Re: Define "consumer"

Yeah, sadly I suspect you're right.

[TheMaskedMan]

I doubt I'll be paying it - Linux mint xfce seems perfectly adequate to me. I recently installed it on an old win 7 laptop - 4gb ram, new SSD, can't recall the processor offhand but it wasn't particularly powerful even in it's day - and it's running routine tasks quite happily.

I'm also in the process of moving an elderly gent from Win7 to mint, and so far have only minor niggles that I know I can resolve when I have time.

I can't see any reason why my desktop shouldn't make the move to Linux when the time comes - if I suddenly feel a pressing urge to run Photoshop, I'll do it on my Win11 laptop.

[BobChip]

Photoshop?

Linux provides GIMP for photo editing etc.. It is certainly different to Photoshop, so there will be a (pretty minor) learning curve, but after that I have yet to find anything that I used to use Photoshop for that cannot be done just as well or better using GIMP. And very much faster......

Obviously, I have been a totally Linux user ever since the "delights" of Win 8.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Is DOS EOL yet?

How long after EOL does an OS become secure by obscurity? There can't be many people still going after Windows XP or ME for that fact which was the best Windows. You may scoff at ME being the best windows but let me ask a question. If it was a game how many hours did you have played with it? I rest my case as the most entertaining Windows ever made.

[frankyunderwood123]

Just extend without charge, ffs

It's obvious that any security patches will find their way online for "free", opening the door to compromised computers, with bogus patches circulating.

Extend support for free at the same time as ceasing beating the dead horse of windows 11 hardware requirements, lift or relax those and more consumers will switch.

Microsoft have to face up to the fact that new versions of Windows don't increase new PC sales like they once did.

[vekkq]

I miss the times were you didn't need constant security updates because it was shipped sufficiently secure.

[PB90210]

Alternately, you didn't receive a stream of security updates because they couldn't be bothered to fix them...

[Peter Gathercole]

Ah, but the last time this was really the case was when PCs were not networked. Back then, security issues were mostly exploited by sneakernet.

And please remember that before Windows NT, PCs were not secure by design - literally, there was no security. And then, in Windows XP Home, this became the case again even though there was actually security in Windows, it just wasn't used in personal computers.

As soon as a PC could be seen by another PC without any person involved, they became vulnerable to attack. And this was a long time ago now.

But looking at it another way, bugs back then were seen as defects that caused a computer to crash, not for your data to be stolen. And Windows had those, even then.

[ComicalEngineer]

As I've noted elsewhere, I'm one of those heathens who insists on having the menu bar on the left side of the screen. I've also *inherited* a number of computers as I've been doing my job for over 30 years. In chronological order:

* Dell Dimension 8300 running XP. Not connected to the internet but has 2 pieces of legacy software that can't be replaced.

* ACER Revo i3 running Win7 very happily. Not used much but again has some legacy software that will only run on 32 bit!

* Another ACER also running Win7 - kept just because it has never broken and has a large HDD used as a file backup

* Another ACER Revo i3 running Win10 that sits in the kitchen for video streaming and as the house file server

* Fujitsu Q520 i7 running Linux Mint (my daily user machine)

* HP Probook running Win 10

SWMBO has a Dell laptop with Win 11 which she mainly uses for web browsing, email and writing simple documents Having tried Win10 I absolutely detest it. I feel no desire to re-learn the interface that's worked perfectly well for over 20 years, and I'm fine with the Win 10 start menu.

Nor do I need or want any machine which has an Artificial Idiot installed.

[JoeCool]

what's the ulterior motive ?

I can't figure out what ms is thinking here.

By selling a year of updates to the consumer base that they otherwise totally disregard, they're stalling the inevitable upgrade a year, basically stealing from Win11.

What will he different in a year?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: what's the ulterior motive ?

"What will he different in a year?"

They'll have $30 from each of the punters who bought into it.

The alternative of doing nothing gets them nothing. The alternative of not requiring the extra hardware spec gets them nothing and upsets the H/W business who are wanting to sell to those who are prepared to replace H/W.

They're making the patches anyway for other long-term commitments so the marginal cost is just about zero. The people they'll get the $30 from are those who aren't very likely to splash out on new N/W. I'm not sure what MS get per OEM licence but maybe not very different from that $30 so they've monetised that segment of the market even if their buddies in H/W manufacture haven't. It's squeezing the last few $$s out of the market.

Why is the obvious so hard to see?

[JoeCool]

Re: what's the ulterior motive ?

The obvious is insufficiently convincing. ms obviously staked out a high friction migration parh, and now they are subverting it for an unquantified , possibly zero revenue "bump". and they actually have to set up a sales and support channel.

[Ilgaz]

Don't laugh

Imagine only 10% of the $30 paying guys donated to a Linux distro they like or Linux, directly.

[js6898]

the problem is not that people leave their system unpatched and not pay the $30 - if only that were to happen that would be the best-case scenario

No, what will happen is that people will start googling free Windows 10 patches and download God knows what from God knows where.

[Bebo99]

I wonder if many of these Win 10 PCs will just not be replaced at all - vanilla users using a browser and many be the odd word doc for a CV will get by on tablets

[mrdalliard]

Hardware Requirements

Not that long ago I bought one of those cheap Asus E210's a little while back. It's got 4GB of memory 64GB of storage.

The RAM is not upgradable.

It regularly nags me to upgrade to Windows 11. I have no idea why any sane person would do this. I've heard of people doing it on the hardware and task manager showing 85%+ memory usage before you even attempt to do anything else. It was a cheap (i.e. £150) machine, so I know it's never going to live forever, but that said, when it comes to the end of its lifespan on Windows 10 I'll install another OS on it.

M.