back to article Beijing claims it's found 'underwater lighthouses' that its foes use for espionage

China has accused unnamed foreign entities of using devices hidden in the seabed and bobbing on the waves to learn its maritime secrets. The nation’s Ministry of State Security made the allegation in a Tuesday post to its WeChat account claiming authorities seized a variety of devices from the sea floor. The ministry alleged …

  1. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Alien

    The fools

    Those are Kaiju detection devices, now we're blind and defenceless!

    1. b0llchit Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: The fools

      Yeagerh, but they were not drifting right anyway.

    2. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: The fools

      Or perhaps they are "sea-weather balloons"

    3. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Must be pretty shallow water

      I really like the fact that the photos shows, center bottom, that the device is pedal powered.

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: The fools

      And don't forget This old thing that's been around as long as ME

  2. jake Silver badge

    A "seabed device" ...

    ... with casters?

    Pull the other one, Mr. Pooh.

    1. AVR Bronze badge

      Re: A "seabed device" ...

      It also looks to be remarkably free of sea life or general muck. You might almost think it had never touched the sea floor.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A "seabed device" ...

        I think that's what they generally refer to as 'floating' :)

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: A "seabed device" ...

          A floating device is going to get a lot of saltwater spray, and look a lot worse for the wear unless its owner is sending someone out to clean it every few weeks.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: A "seabed device" ...

            "unless its owner is sending someone out to clean it every few minutes."

            FTFY

          2. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Pirate

            Re: A "seabed device" ...

            and don't forget the barnacles and that "sea grass" you often see at the waterline of ships. Sea life grows on anything it can attach itself to, and does not take that long to show up. A few weeks even...

            [these land-lubbers know nuthin' 'bout the sea! Haarrrrr!]

      2. MyffyW Silver badge

        Re: A "seabed device" ...

        Maybe it's just me, but I came across all E L James on seeing that fiendish device.

    2. Blazde Silver badge

      Re: A "seabed device" ...

      ... with casters?

      It's amphibious, clearly

    3. vtcodger Silver badge

      Re: A "seabed device" ...

      from the article "... and bobbing on the waves"

      This looks to be a bobbing on the waves gidgee. The black tank-like thing on top with the antenna (not much use underwater that?) would be the float I should think. The dark grey thing below is the payload? And the light grey thing with the casters is a cart to hold the device while it is examined/displayed? The "float" looks to have a rudder. And the "payload" has things that might be stabilisers of some sort. So perhaps this thing is at least somewhat mobile.

      1. Malcolm Weir

        Re: A "seabed device" ...

        What it mostly looks like is a sonobuoy outside its launch housing. Whose sonobuoy is another matter, but as China's rivals in the area are very interested in the PLAN submarine fleet (and the reverse is equally true: they're interested in ours) it seems entirely likely that someone dropped a buoy and someone else scooped it up and clutched their pearls...

        You would expect to see some kind of identification on it (or on components within), so either this particular one is unmarked, or more likely China knows damn well what and whose it is, but prefer the narrative that they're being spied on in contrast to their sneakiness (submarines) are being rivalled by ours (ASW systems).

        1. vtcodger Silver badge

          Re: A "seabed device" ...

          If it's a device planted by the US three letter lads, My guess is that any parts with manufacturer's logo or part number will trace back to some nebulous company purportedly operating in a compound on the Bolivian Altiplano. Or something equally unhelpful in absolutely establishing provenance. Same likely true if it's Russian? Any country in the neighborhood probably used Chinese commodity parts with perhaps a bit of custom machining?

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: A "seabed device" ...

            If you're planting a device like that knowing that China would be unhappy when it was discovered, you're gonna make it look like another country that China is maybe becoming more friendly with is responsible. That way you get a two-fer of whatever intelligence it gathers before discovery plus you drive a wedge in China's relations with other countries in the region.

            Bonus points if you manage to create some fake intelligence that China made the whole thing up to implicate that other country, because there are some in the leadership who don't like those improving relations. You just have to find a way for them that other country to discover the intelligence in a way that makes them believe it is real.

            Or I suppose you could create some fake devices with complicated sensors and circuitry that will baffle Chinese scientists, so they waste a lot of time trying to figure out what it is and what it is doing, assuming that someone wouldn't have gone to the expense required to build it and deploy who knows how many if it wasn't important.

    4. phuzz Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: A "seabed device" ...

      Or maybe that's just the table they put it on to photograph?

  3. cantankerous swineherd

    there's an IT angle here?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It could impair your angling, sure.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        But you should see the one that got away...

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Stop

    "secret sentinels"

    Because Chinese fishing boats have only ever been used for fishing, right ?

    1. vtcodger Silver badge

      Re: "secret sentinels"

      Only fishing? Absolutely!!! Modern technology demands that fishing boats have at least 15 antennae of various sorts. And there are a lot of fish downrange from rocket test/satellite launch sites and around Naval bases. Many, many fish.

      Actually, I think it's mostly the Russians that disguise their intelligence gathering vessels as trawlers. I can't find much reference to Chinese intelligence gathering vessels disguised as trawlers. Lots of concern about the Chinese fishing where they aren't supposed to and ignoring rules intended to preserve fish stocks though. The Chinese do have several "research" vessels operating in the Indian Ocean. And some "Intelligence vessels operating in the Western Pacific. Since a boat bristling with antennae doesn't fool much of anyone even if it has a few nets, maybe the Chinese don't see much point in disguising their vessels. Neither does the US so far as I can tell.

      1. Cris E

        Re: "secret sentinels"

        The Chinese are currently in enthralled by the concept of a vast Chinese Coast Guard. Vast as in the number of ships (approx 140 over 1000 tons), in the scale of some of them (eg 540 foot, 12,000 ton "coast guard" ship) and the odd functions of some of them (like the landing craft...) It's a thin civilian veneer over the actions of the People's Liberation Army Navy.

      2. Dafyd Colquhoun

        Re: "secret sentinels"

        Chinese spy ships don't bother with the facade that the Russians do (and Soviets did). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-14/chinese-spy-ship-returns-to-australian-waters/100289192

    2. LBJsPNS Bronze badge

      Re: "secret sentinels"

      That's right.

      And Chinese hand laundries were only used for laundering Chinese hands.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Does it go ping?

    we need to know!!!!!

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Does it go ping?

      Does it go ping?

      Yesh.

      But one ping only.

      1. The Bobster

        Re: Does it go ping?

        https://soundcloud.com/aragusea/russians-dont-take-a-dump-son-without-a-plan

        5 out of 5 pings!

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Pirate

          Re: Does it go ping?

          real sonar pings actually don't sound like "ping", though, more like whistling. If you've ever heard them in deep water they sound like whistling in a ginormous cave.

      2. Not Yb Bronze badge

        Re: Does it go ping?

        Almost as good as casting him as a Spaniard in a film about an immortal Scottish warrior.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Does it go ping?

      There's a Monty Python script in there somewhere.....

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQPIdZvoV4g

    3. jake Silver badge

      Re: Does it go ping?

      It runs Linux, so ping is probably an option.

    4. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Does it go ping?

      SO close to Halloween, I now have Tim Curry singing "The Time Warp" in my head - my mind goes "ping"

      [Don't touch the hair! Too late...] [Meatloaf again? We had Meatloaf LAST week!]

  6. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

    well thats useful.

    Shopping trolley wheels, for rolling around on the seabed and crashing into Sponge Bob presumably...

  7. Winkypop Silver badge
    Coat

    We all live…

    …in a yellow subversion…..

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We all live…

      ...or a yellow git?

  8. Roj Blake Silver badge

    "...a prolonged great power war"

    There's no such thing in the nuclear age.

    1. VicMortimer Silver badge

      Re: "...a prolonged great power war"

      You're assuming that the nukes would get used. They probably won't.

      Russia would have already used nukes in Ukraine if they didn't know they'd get nuked back if they did. And that's the case in any conflict, nobody will use one because they know how that ends.

      1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: "...a prolonged great power war"

        THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.

        HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: "...a prolonged great power war"

          "THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY.

          HOW ABOUT A NICE GAME OF CHESS?"

          With my ability at chess, the first statement is my answer to your question :-)

      2. TJ1
        Mushroom

        They Probably Won't - come back Sir Humphrey Appleby!

        Appleby: It's a deterrent.

        PM Hacker: It's a bluff. I probably wouldn't use it.

        Appleby: Yes, but they don't know that you probably wouldn't.

        PM Hacker: They probably do.

        Appleby: Yes, they probably know that you probably wouldn't. But they can't certainly know.

        PM Hacker: They probably certainly know that I probably wouldn't.

        Appleby: Yes, but even though they probably certainly know that you probably wouldn't, they don't certainly know that, although you probably wouldn't, there is no probability that you certainly would.

        PM Hacker: What?

        You brought back to my mind this famous and fabulous repartee that Anthony Jay scripted for Yes Prime Minister! Always makes me laugh but it is spot on.

        Regarding Ukraine; early in the full-scale war when Russian officials were talking up nuclear weapons threats US SecDef had a "quiet word" with Shoigu (Russian minister of war). Various sources, paraphrased, report that essentially the Russians were told that if they used any kind of nuclear weapon against Ukraine, including contriving a nuclear "accident" at Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, a large number of Ukraine's allies (not necessarily under the NATO umbrella) would use conventional weapons to take out the entire Russian black sea fleet and all Russia's command, control and logistics facilities in occupied territories.

        1. druck Silver badge

          Re: They Probably Won't - come back Sir Humphrey Appleby!

          I think we need to uprate that quiet word, now Ukraine has destroyed most of the feared Russian black sea fleet with some radio controlled toy boats.

  9. spold Silver badge

    It does everything but the kitchen sink

    ...oh wait, it is one.

  10. spold Silver badge

    >>>

    Most devices also have a self-destruct function, which can be automatically destroyed after the completion of the mission according to a pre-set program

    <<<

    So like most modern electronic contraptions the day the warranty expires then.

  11. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    IT Angle

    Hmmmm....

    Anyone remember "Ivy Bells"?

    Cold War mission run by the US to bug submarine cables in Russian waters and record them on very long play tape recorders.

    As others have noticed this looks very clean for something that was sitting on the sea bed for any substantial length of time.

    IT angle? Does it have a processor? What's its OS?

    1. Wexford

      Re: Hmmmm....

      I wonder if this might be the innards after a fairing/shell was removed?

  12. Dinanziame Silver badge
    1. Trygve Henriksen

      I don't think it's the Islands we need to worry about. That's just a diversion.

      No, what we, or rather Taiwan, needs to worry about is the enormous dredgers.

      They are operating near or even in Taiwan's territorial waters.

      Any even halfway competent submarine captain can navigate his sub under one of those and follow it to wherever its dredging, then let his sub sink down to rest in the newly dug out hole and be much more difficult to detect.

      Each dredge takes the round trip 3 or 4 times, and you end up with a flotilla of subs on the seabed, just waiting for the signal to move towards Taiwan to release teams of SF operatives.

  13. heyrick Silver badge

    A what now?

    Tiny castors, a metal frame (that's boxy to ensure its more likely to show up on anything scanning), doesn't look like there's anything to control it's up and down, not to mention the left and right, and large amounts of empty space.

    Honestly, if I was designing something to put into the ocean to spy on the Chinese, it wouldn't look anything like that.

    1. VicMortimer Silver badge

      Re: A what now?

      Yep. If you think we don't have some kind of undersea tracking system in place near hostile countries, you'd be nuts.

      This ain't it.

      1. collinsl Silver badge

        Re: A what now?

        > This ain't it.

        Some bots are born to listen hard

        Hoo they're spyin' on you

        And when the subs come wanderin' past

        Ooh they point the sonar at you, Lord

        It ain't me, it ain't me!

        I ain't no listenin' one, no

        It ain't me, it ain't me!

        I ain't no fortunate one, no

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A what now?

      It's obviously in disguise.

      Sneaky devil.

  14. Bill Gray

    Translate captions on the picture?

    As a Yank, I'm basically monolingual. Anyone willing to tell me what those three captions say in English?

    As noted above, we can assume the frame and casters were supplied by the Chinese to move the thing around. But I can't make any real sense out of the rest of the picture.

    (I'd add the icon of Paris scratching her head in confusion, were it still available.)

    1. jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid Silver badge

      Re: Translate captions on the picture?

      According to Google translate the captions are "surface craft", "underwater drive unit" and "hanging cable".

      The same Google image search found a few other references online to it:

      https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3129897/chinese-fishermen-find-drone-ship-used-spying-foreign-country

      That article suggests that is one of these.

      https://www.liquid-robotics.com/wave-glider/how-it-works/

      This website suggests that this is either an old story from a few years ago, or a new instance of it happening again.

      https://gaodawei.wordpress.com/2021/04/14/chinese-fishermen-net-sea-drone-experts-call-it-a-teleguided-spy/

      1. Bill Gray

        Re: Translate captions on the picture?

        Thank you! Didn't think G__gle Translate would work on images; that's a good thing to know.

        The "Wave Glider" looks interesting. In hindsight, that looks like a natural way to power an aquatic drone, and a very handy thing for any navy. I'd expect the oceans to be just about littered with them (and their Chinese and Russian counterparts).

      2. jake Silver badge

        Re: Translate captions on the picture?

        This sooper sekrit spy device has a wiki page:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_Robotics

        Seems the things were never a secret, and have been around for over 20 years.

    2. david 12 Silver badge

      Re: Translate captions on the picture?

      ... And the "foot pedals" noted above operate the hydraulic lift mechanism attached to the table top. (visible left back) .

      Which raises an interesting tangent. Is that table a stock item? What is its common use?

  15. _Elvi_

    The dolphins ..

    .. are not amused...

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The only threat to china

    "threatening China's national security" The only threat to china is Xi and his insane desire to concur earth.

  17. IGotOut Silver badge

    Err folks

    You're all calling China liars, but I guess none of you, including the entire Chinese military actually read the news?

    It's well documented the US has a massive underwater spy network.

    https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-china-tech-surveillance/

    1. collinsl Silver badge

      Re: Err folks

      This isn't part of it though.

  18. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Oh dear

    "The lady[Beijing] doth protest too much, methinks"

    As if Beijing doesn't engage in espionage at every opportunity

    with thanks to William Shakespeare

  19. Jon 37 Silver badge

    USS Jimmy Carter

    America has a submarine specially designed for sneaky underwater operations. So I would be surprised if they **weren't** dropping surveillance devices near "Chinese" waters.

    The USS Jimmy Carter is the fourth in a series of such submarines that the US has operated over the decades, and they're now building a new one.

    Note that the Chinese claim to "Chinese waters" is much larger than the rest of the world thinks they should get.So America can claim to be legally surveying what it considers international waters, while inside waters that China claim.

    The reason for that discrepancy is partly because China has been building artificial islands and claiming the sea around those islands. And partly because they claim natural islands that other countries also claim - and China has been building military bases on some of them.

    China has been running a major operation dredging up sand from the seabed to create and expand islands there, and building bases, for many years. They clearly aim to be so well entrenched that the rest of the world can't do anything about their claim to basically the entire South China Sea.

  20. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

    caster

    it looks like there's a caster on the bottom left. makes it look more like something designed for use in an office of some type. of course maybe there are paved walkways under the sea off china's coast.

  21. O'Reg Inalsin

    What it is, according to the labels

    Pictured are three, probably connected, parts, on a trolley. The casters and frame of the trolley are not part of the device. The top label is "surface vessel". The bottom right label is "hanging cable". And the bottom left label is "underwater drive unit". Sounds plausible to me. If so there ought to be communication equipment, but that is not mentioned - otherwise it is not much use. It could have been made by any one of a number of parties - including the CCP - the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand is doing.

    1. O'Reg Inalsin

      Correction: What it is, according to the labels

      "Bottom right" should be "bottom left" and visa versa.

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. TJ1
    Stop

    It's a Liquid Robotics Wave Glider

    Looking at the detail I think it could be a Liquid Robotics "Wave Glider" that includes an optional "Solar electric thruster" , see

    https://www.liquid-robotics.com/wave-glider/how-it-works/

    The handle at the front of the floating solar electric thruster in the banner photo (left side) and the circular 'stub' behind it matches the right side of the Chinese photograph as do the three solar panels and central antenna/warning beacon.

  24. Grinning Bandicoot

    USS Connecticut

    Well that explains what was going on there. It was marking sea mounds in Filipino waters. One very famous US admirals son left a submarine upon one of the reefs and the sea mounds are harder to see consequently better aid to navigation are needed.

  25. aelfheld

    What maritime secrets? The ones they stole?

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