Tesla, Intel, deny they're the foreign company China just accused of making maps that threaten national security

Tesla has denied it was involved in illegal-map making activities in China after Beijing asserted an unnamed foreign firm working on a smart car project had done so – and even stolen state secrets – through a collaboration with a local business. The Ministry of State Security (MSS) last Wednesday accused the unnamed firm of …

[Catkin]

Chinese cartographic paranoia is extreme, to the point that their geodetic datum (GCJ-02) is intentionally distorted in a pseudo-random fashion to frustrate map making exercises.

It's unlikely the charges are a sign they specifically captured anything sensitive, since any private map making in China is illegal without the consent and involvement of the government. They've even arrested and fined geology students. It's also a nice little money spinner for the government, since even using their wonky coordinate system (the only system that is legal to use in the country) requires a licensing fee.

[cyberdemon]

Yes, it has often puzzled me as to why China are quite so paranoid about accurate mapping to the extent that it is almost completely banned

It's as if they are expecting a war (but presumably not a full on nuclear war with the USA/NATO, since the cartographic scrambling doesn't protect against nukes) or at least serious civil unrest in the not so distant future, and they don't want incoming missiles/drones to hit their targets

[A. Coatsworth]

Stalinism is based on paranoia, and it is the last remnant of communist ideology left in the CCP.

[Anonymous Coward]

One correction. USA/ANZUS, not NATO. Figuring out what they stand for, tells you where they are.

[The Man Who Fell To Earth]

Mapping Paranopia

All of the major powers have spy satellites that can pretty much read your watch from orbit if you hold it out on a clear day. Paranoia about maps of the resolution used for auto navigation only occurs in countries more worried about the possibilities of internal threats than external threats. That's the reason the Soviets didn't teach map reading to their troops nor issue them paper maps, while Western militaries consider map reading a basic soldiering skill.

[Flocke Kroes]

Possible solution

China nationalises the big Tesla factory in Shanghai. That way the maps would not be made by a foreign company.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Possible solution

Foreign companies that are mandated by law to share all the data they collect with the US government agencies...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Possible solution

Chinese companies that are mandated by Chinese laws CSL 2017, DSL 2021 & PIPL 2021 to share all the data they collect with Chinese government agencies...

FIFY

[Guy de Loimbard]

I get the level of paranoia, but satellite based Cartography is going to get the lion's share of any sensitive data, unless you build it underground.

I also notice that there's a correlation between how paranoid the government is and the amount of time they spend finding "spies" in every place and everything!

[DS999]

Satellite data is limited

You can see what is where, but you can't see how many people (and who) go there.

I speculated yesterday that maybe it could be Apple they're upset with. Looking at it from the point of view of a paranoid state (substitute China/Apple with US/Huawei for the mirror view) Let's say you have a secret military base. It is obvious on satellite so the "enemy" will know what buildings there are and can make some educated guesses as to what is going on there. But they would make better guesses if they knew there were 10 people a day showing up to work there versus 500, and even better guesses if the knew the identities of some of the people working there.

So imagine a Chinese employee working at such a secret military base. Because they have standard opsec, when he arrives at the main gate in the morning he checks in his personal cell phone, and it is put into a metal locker. When he leaves in the evening they give his phone back and he drives home.

If he's got an iPhone Apple isn't gathering any information about the secret base, they can't tell which building he works in and even if a paranoid state assumed Apple was bugging the phone to find out secrets it would do no good since it is sitting in the metal box. But despite that Apple could tell who works there, because the phone would know its location until the main gate then go offline for 8 or 9 hours, then re-appear at that main gate and drive home. So it is pretty obvious who works there, so if Apple either overtly cooperated with the CIA or the CIA had compromised Apple's internal systems (which a paranoid state would simply assume, because they're paranoid) then they'd know who he was, where he lived, what places he frequented in his spare time, etc. That information would enable a spy to know where to go to "just happen" to meet him and probe him to see if he would potentially turn and become a spy for the US. If he looks unlikely to turn, you have multiple options, maybe you get lucky with the 6th or maybe something changes about a guy you thought was solid (he loses a lot of money in investments, his kid can't get into the good school, whatever) and now there's a crack they can work to turn him into an asset.

[DS999]

Just to add, stuff like this is why China has banned government employees from using iPhones. Dunno if that's taken effect or how strongly its enforced but from China's point of view even if they believed 100% that Apple does not cooperate with the US government in any way (and why would they believe that, it is a failure of paranoia) and that Apple has not been hacked by the CIA, has no CIA people working at it etc. just the fact that Apple might have such data sitting in some dusty server somewhere means that if things changed in the future (Apple starts cooperating with the CIA, the CIA hacks them, someone from the CIA gets a job at Apple and is able to access that dusty server) then the information is out.

Same reason why the US doesn't want government employees using Huawei gear...

[Omnipresent]

LMAO

@ China.

Launch another balloon!

[DS999]

Could it be Apple?

"Illegal mapmaking" doesn't necessarily mean driving around with a streetview car, it could refer to getting millions of people to carry a device around that uses GPS etc. to fix its location. Apple Maps works in China (reportedly quite well) but could still be improved through the use of anonymized data of millions of Chinese iPhone users.