back to article UK Regulatory Innovation Office vows to slash red tape – but we've heard it all before

Over summer, the UK witnessed a change in government. However, the incoming Labour Party shares some ideas about regulation and innovation with its Conservative predecessor. Earlier this week, the Department for Science, Innovation & Technology (DSIT) launched the Regulatory Innovation Office (RIO), which it said would "reduce …

  1. andy gibson

    Eric Pickles also pledged to get rid of it 2010:

    "Breaking free from council red tape. My department wants to free up councils to deliver for the public. I won't be micromanaging or interfering any more"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/06/local-government-public-power-councils

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      And since then we've had the Grenfell Tower fire (which this deregulation was a contributing factor to) and numerous bankrupt councils.

    2. goodjudge

      Pickles hated the local government sector and did his best to destroy it. It's when councils started having their real terms funding *really* cut. The preferred alternative being, of course, outsourcing to private sector companies who knew exactly the right thing to do for residents. Arconic, Carrillion, Barnet's "EasyCouncil" model, etc. etc.

  2. Guy de Loimbard Silver badge

    DO we need another regulatory body

    Is anyone else tired of the continual rebranding of government bodies and the (re)creation of new ones?

    I am not going to hold my breath on this body having any significant impact on anything of note, or indeed substance!

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: DO we need another regulatory body

      I thought Jim Hacker's Dept of Administrative Affairs was supposed to be satire?

      1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: DO we need another regulatory body

        I thought Jim Hacker's Dept of Administrative Affairs was supposed to be satire?

        Very accurate satire.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: DO we need another regulatory body

          But everything else in Yes Minister was just a joke, right ?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: DO we need another regulatory body

      Yes, we need a Regulator to regulate Regulators (apart from that new Regulator of course)

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: DO we need another regulatory body

        They will be overseen by a new Office of Regulatory Regulation

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Reducing "red tape" all too often ends up as either Big Business 2 Public 0, Government 2 Public 0 or both. Enabling that is why we had Brexit and, of course, Labour have had form on this for a long time.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Having just had a proposal turned down that had crystal clear whole-UK benefit, and demonstrably so even before running the project...

    Promising to reduce red tape when you ARE the red tape, and you make a living off being it has predictable consequences.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tax land, not labor

    This will cause an explosion of jobs and innovation. Remove the overhead to run business, so that anyone could become rich from providing services. No income tax, no corporate tax, no lawyers and accountants producing zero tangible GDP. No government spending on regulation, tracking, tax collection, prosecution etc. And it is impossible not to pay the land tax. You cannot hide it in offshores.

    Less than 1% of population owns 50% of England [1]. 18% of England is owned by corporations, some of them based overseas or in offshore jurisdictions. But military and police to protect this land is probably paid from poor workers' taxes.

    Home owners own only 5% of the country. Suddenly housing issue will be solved and people will not spend most of their earnings to find a place to live, instead spending on consumption.

    [1] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tax land, not labor

      Taxing land wouldn't work; it would bankrupt the people who look after land that is hard to farm, creating an incentive to build on some beautiful sections of countryside to pay a tax bill. It would also push leasehold rates through the roof, affecting a lot of less well off people.

      Much better to bring in a flat rate of income tax, applying to all income. (i.e. same rate of tax on income from shares, dividends interest payments, selling land and property etc.) That would actually impact people with the most assets the most, because the act of converting the assets into money that can be spent is income, and would be taxed as such. Getting rid of the tax bands and going flat rate for all income rewards people for working more and takes money away from people living off inherited assets. (Of course, that's why a tax scheme like that will never happen...)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > it would bankrupt the people who look after land that is hard to farm

        No, because land should be taxed based on its productive qualities.

        > leasehold rates through the roof, affecting a lot of less well off people

        Would you mind to explain how it works? The poor will become better off overall due to better economy. Besides they do not own any land.

        > better to bring in a flat rate

        This would hit the poor for sure.

      2. I am the liquor

        Re: Tax land, not labor

        There are two separate things here: unified tax rates across all income, and a flat tax rate. It's the unified rates across all kinds of income that rewards people who work for a living at the expense of those living off assets. There can still be tiered bands. A flat tax rate rewards those with higher income at the expense of those with lower income.

      3. I am the liquor

        Re: Tax land, not labor

        Here's a question about unified treatment of all income. Would you include inheritance? I.e., get rid of inheritance tax as applied to estates, and instead treat what's received by the heirs as part of their income, taxing it at that point? It seems like this could encourage people to will their estates in a more egalitarian way, wider and more thinly, but maybe there are unintended consequences. You might still need to keep some allowances, like residence nil rate for a family home or business relief for a family business, so they wouldn't have to be chopped into tiny slices or taxed out of existence.

    2. tfewster
      Facepalm

      Re: Tax land, not labor

      Interesting, but as flawed as any other measure such as the "window tax". Approximately 70% of the UK's land is farms and parks. Look forward to prices for food and recreational amenities rising.

      My land is half house, half garden. Could I sell the garden to build another house? Or better, high-rise flats so all the flat owners share the land tax between them? Of course I can, without those pesky planning permission and safety regulations getting in the way!

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Tax land, not labor

        >” My land is half house, half garden. Could I sell the garden to build another house?”

        Half hearted, sell both and build two high-rise flats then you will have all the benefits of a penthouse apartment and roof garden…

        Only constraint, you are banned from living anywhere else, so as to ensure you get the full benefit of your investment…

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > 70% farms and parks

        Land should be taxed by density of nearby public infrastructure. For example, London Tube is expensive, so should be land near the stations.

        Land regulation will stay, or may become more complex.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > prices for food and recreational amenities rising

        Quite contrary: services and produce will become cheaper, due to booming economy. Economy will boom, because people will spend instead of paying to LAND-lords.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Have you got the faintest idea of where food comes from and how it's produced?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Your comment is pointless. Nobody learnt anything from the question.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Tax land, not labor

      >” Remove the overhead to run business, so that anyone could become rich from providing services.”

      That is effectively what cloud has done!

      I move my datacentre into “the cloud” and get rid of the building; no longer paying rent or business rates.

      Do online sales and can downsize high street presence…

      Yes the cloud provider is paying business rates, but I doubt the level of business rates placed on a data centre is anything other than significantly less than the business rates orignally paid by all those businesses pre-cloud….

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Tax land, not labor

        That big sucking sound you here is all the money raining upwards into the cloud and then getting blown to the US.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > what cloud has done!

        Even more: taxable land will provide leverage to land-less businesses. They typically generate higher added value. Intelligent services do not require much space. More will be done with less.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tax land, not labor

      Implementation of the proposed taxation change should happen slowly over a longer period of time.

      People concerned of not being able to pay the land tax after retirement could simply save in advance from their (now untaxed) income. Alternatively they can move out to areas with cheaper land and let the productive space available to younger generations.

  6. Vestas

    Rentier economy

    The UK is a rentier economy - there's a better RoI and lower risk if you simply buy property in most instances than investing in R&D/whatever. Been like that for near enough half a century so until that changes then the rest is bollox.

    Oh and I'm talking about the actual companies themselves, not the plague of buy-to-let scum which have emerged in the last two decades.

    1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      Re: Rentier economy

      Oh and I'm talking about the actual companies themselves, not the plague of buy-to-let scum which have emerged in the last two decades.

      Gen Z are cutely innocent. Peter Rachmann built his empire in the fifties.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Rentier economy

      > lower risk if you simply buy property

      I am still waiting for my taxes back for bailing out property owners during the 2008 crisis. Now that the owners are doing great, pay the f-ng debt!

      So it is not that the risk of buying property is magically lower, but making the taxpayer to bail them out is where the risk is reassigned.

  7. Roland6 Silver badge

    Thatcher - the special relationship…

    >” Hinton's career trajectory is suggestive of the malaise affecting UK innovation, which has little to do with regulation. His Wikipedia page states that though he gained a PhD at the University of Sussex, he left the UK after finding it difficult to get funding for his work”

    Hinton left the UK circa 1980 (*), when the UK had a government that didn’t believe in funding scientific R&D and also didn’t believe in paying universities and researchers more than a pittance. Hence UK researchers were prime targets for the well funded US research universities, thus the “the brain drain”…

    Thatcher’s/Conservative response was the UK could not afford to compete, so Thatcher used her relationship with Reagan to block the movement of GB passport holding researchers (and high profile individuals) to the US and simply wrung her hands as UK universities lost out on funding, complaining that they needed to become”world class”…

    We did (briefly) have a period (David Cameron PM?) when the UK government activity encouraged foreign investment in the development of R&D capabilities in the UK, and thus encourage researchers to return to the UK, but subsequent events seem to indicate the establishment hasn’t taken this on-board, reverting to form

    (*) https://web.archive.org/web/20200801050640/https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hinton/fullcv.pdf

    1. Spoobistle
      Facepalm

      Re: subsequent events

      Coincidentally, I was watching the House of Lords Covid Vaccine Rollout committee (Parliament channel, last night).

      Oxford vaccine boffins were being asked about their views on progress towards better planning for the next pandemic. Besides some rather tart opinions on various Government initiatives, they all agreed that the parlous state of UK funding (and high living costs) meant that talent is going to the US and Japan, not coming here.

      1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: subsequent events

        Oxford has a particular problem with ludicrous house prices. Two bed Victorian end terrace? Thick end of a million pounds.

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

          Re: subsequent events

          For once I'm happy that The Other Place beats Cambridge. You could get a 3 bedroom house for that here, maybe even 4 in the down market areas.

      2. Korev Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: subsequent events

        My old lab in Cambridge was stacked full of people from the EU, back then it was trivial for them to come to the UK and harder to go to the US etc. Another thing that Brexit has ruined!

  8. SnailFerrous

    AI Red Tape

    "AI training software for surgeons to deliver more accurate surgical treatments for patients"

    Which couldn't possibly go wrong. No way that the AI could hallucinate a nonexistent organ, or an actual organ in the wrong place.

    1. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: AI Red Tape

      No way that the AI could hallucinate a nonexistent organ, or an actual organ in the wrong place.

      Some people do have their organs in "the wrong place" (when a friend had appendicitis they couldn't find it at first because it was round the back), so that might actually be helpful (within reason). It's a generation of surgeons skilled in removing inflamed Shatner's Bassoons from people that's the worrying bit.

      1. Korev Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: AI Red Tape

        An upvote for Shatner's Bassoon

  9. Tron Silver badge

    This is a useful measure.

    When a drone falls from the sky and kills someone, the head of the RIO can be first through the prison gates for a long stint, for 'enabling' the death.

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