Fujitsu wins spot on £600M framework after vowing to sit out public sector

Fujitsu has won a place on a UK tech framework worth up to £600 million ($802 million) despite promising not to bid for public sector contracts while its role in the Post Office Horizon scandal faces scrutiny. The company says bidding for the deal took place before it made that commitment to the UK government. Northern Ireland …

[Dan 55]

The company says bidding for the deal took place before it made that commitment to the UK government

So it's not possible for Fujitsu to withdraw a bid?

And that's before we get to the farce of the government apparently not being able to reject bids from Fujitsu.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: The company says bidding for the deal took place before it m

It is hard to stop fast moving gravy train...

[Pascal Monett]

Words are nothing but words

Acts count.

And $600 million is obviously not something a company is going to ignore.

So good on Fujitsu for having once again put its snout into the trough. Bad on UK government officials for allowing that.

Oh well, it's just pissing another $600 million into the wind. It's not like that has any consequence, right ?

[Tim 11]

Is fujutsu really the problem

I'm sure Fujitsu has its problems like any large software development organisation, and maybe they could have done things differently in the Horizon case, but the scandal was down to outright corruption in the Post Office, and a law that let them get away with it, not down to anything within Fujitsu.

[The Mole]

Re: Is fujutsu really the problem

No, a significant part of the problem was senior Fujitsu employees perverting the course of justice and down right lying in court, to parliament and to the Post Office. Claiming things like remote access wasn't possible (when it was) and that they weren't aware of defects (when they were regularly manually fixing data).

[Apocalypso - a cheery end to the world]

Re: Is fujutsu really the problem

Re-read this and tell me again that you don't think Fujitsu were part of the problem.

https://www.reddit.com/r/programminghorror/comments/1952kyb/this_is_a_real_code_review_submitted_to_the/#lightbox

[Anonymous Coward]

Fujitsu in Northern Ireland

This would be the Fujitsu that runs Horizon out of two data centres in Belfast? And got £95M to extend the contract back in January?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67940125

The same Fujitsu that has done just fine in Northern Ireland?

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/value-of-fujitsus-public-body-contracts-in-north-is-more-than-three-quarters-of-a-billion-pounds-3DH2H22ELBEW7DPJQHEVQ6PPJI/

"The company employs around 600 staff in the north and is one of the largest suppliers of IT services to the region’s public sector."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fujitsu in Northern Ireland

> This would be the Fujitsu that runs Horizon out of two data centres in Belfast?

Where at least one of those data centres used to be owned by ICL before Fujitsu bought them, and prior to that was owned by CFM before ICL bought them, and where CFM's staff (if not the data centre) were originally part of the NI Civil Service's IT department until it was privatised? https://ceoni.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/noel-brady-respecting-your-customer-is-at-the-heart-of-doing-business/

"The next big change for me was, in 1989, Margaret Thatcher introduced “market testing” where the whole civil service across the UK had to market test certain functions and if it was cheaper to do it in the private sector, then it had to be privatized. In Northern Ireland, one project was identified and it was the market testing of CISD, the central computing function. I don’t know whether they chose that because they thought it wouldn’t end up being privatized – but anyway as it turned out when it was advertised in the European Journal, we had a storm of companies interested. So CISD was privatized and the contract was won by CFM Group Limited, which then became ICL-CFM, which is known today as Fujitsu Services."

It all comes full circle... <cue the Lion King tune "It's the circle of life">

[Anonymous Coward]

so what, just pull out

"The company says bidding for the deal took place before it made that commitment to the UK government."

And how does that stop you withdrawing from the bidding for the deal - they show utter contempt and so easily go against their own words. Worth bearing in mind for anyone looking to use Fuji - their word is not worth it, don't trust their contracts as they will undoubtedly try to worm their way out of them

[hoola]

Re: so what, just pull out

The only way this could have been prevented is fi Fujitsu withdrew the tender, something they could very easily have done. I also thought they had stated they were no going to tender for anything but presumable in Fujitsu speak this simply meant not respond to any new tenders.

The people running the procurement cannot reject them based on previous performance so we have this ridiculous situation that crap (and in this case operating in a way that is barely legal) can still be awarded a contract.

If it had been rejected then Fujitsu can take the Government to court to say "it is no fair".

What is interesting is much of this lunacy around procurement is EU rules that are still in place.

[elsergiovolador]

Japan

Japan based?

I thought they are Sewer based.

Surely if Fushitesu was Japanese based they would have committed Seppuku out of shame.

[johnB]

No No No

They shouldn't be even getting sight of ANY public money until ALL the Post Office's victims have received FULL compensation.

(And even then I'd like to see some jail sentences as well before they get their snouts back into the trough).

[PB90210]

Re: No No No

And, according to the BBC, the errors are still occuring...

"The vast majority - 92% - of sub-postmasters surveyed reported experiencing some form of issue with the Horizon IT system in the last 12 months." - YouGov

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely ourageous

And here's me thinking that this sort of thing could not happen in ...

Never mind.

Right.

Let me explain it as simply as possible.

ie: as if the writing was not on the wall (as it has been) for a great many decades now

Fujitsu* will screw you over as many times as -> you** <- allow it.

Over and over while whistling the same tune.

So ...

Just where is the public outrage at this state of affairs in the UK?

* and any other corporation with its snout in the public sector trough

** the taxpayers, who do you think? The very royal Charles & Co.?

.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Absolutely ourageous

Every family has problems.

Anon, obviously.

[hoola]

Re: Absolutely ourageous

Just a few minor adjustments:

Fujitsu

Infosys

Serco

Capita

IBM

Then add

KPMG

EY

and all the other major consulting outfits that just see the tax payer as a cash cow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Absolutely ourageous

Just a few minor adjustments: ...

Note taken ... =^ )

But "* and any other corporation with its snout in the public sector trough" should also encompass them.

.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all so wooly. 600M to be in on the 'framework'. When ever I read these frameworks it's oh so lacking on real detail or how anything is going to be achieved or exactly what is going to be achieved. Introduce AI into the public sector? Surely companies bid for a specific project once they know what needs to be done.

Apparently not. Seems to go something like the government saying here's 600 Million, we want you to maybe do stuff in these areas. We don't know exactly what but for 600 Million we hope you can tell us.

[elsergiovolador]

Exactly £600m at that. Not £601,234,251.53 or something. Which means numbers were likely pulled out of where sun rarely shines in.

All most likely done by the cheapest staff they can find.

I wonder what is real profit margin on such contract.

[Ball boy]

£600m will be, obviously, the rounded figure that's released to the public. I'd guess this number gives Fujitsu something in the order of a 25-30% profit margin. Having said that - and perhaps I'm cynical in my old age - I'll bet the total is somewhat closer to 750-850 because that headline number won't account for in-contract spends for 'variables' and so on; part of the negotiation would have been quite how much scope there is for flexibility, overt or otherwise.

Then, of course, there's the lock-in factor: once the project is underway and there are the inevitable design changes put into the model (it's public sector: each administration will tinker with the design), then the cost goes up and profit margins begin to climb. I give you Oracle partners / Birmingham City Council as a first-rate example of this practice taken to the extreme. Final actual cost for this Fujitsu project? I very much doubt anyone can imagine the end game; there's far too many variables to consider. Play it right though and the consultancy could drag on for years past the initial expectations. Expect Private Eye to carry details of the overspend in a few years when it all comes to light.

[Guy de Loimbard]

Having worked on these frameworks....

The £600M is a misleading number as it's a rough order of magnitude of the value of the whole framework, not necessarily a single item to deliver.

Sure, it's still shocking the the company in question hasn't withdrawn, but continued journalistic work identifying these faux pas, certainly help keep us all informed and hold the bastards to account! (Maybe)

[MrGreen]

Who owns all the shares?

Follow the money.

Lot’s of elites can’t have their share portfolios being devalued. The free money continues.