Windows 11 continues slog up the Windows 10 mountain

Windows 11 continues to nibble at the market share of Windows 10, although has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor. According to figures from Statcounter, Windows 11 has continued the months-long trend of slightly increasing market share, while that of Windows 10 slides. For August 2024, the stats service …

[Julian Poyntz]

Not worth it

All I get a taskbar that is now oddly worse than before. More telemetry, I can now long switch quickly between users as M$ have their latest marketing slogan there, trying to force you into using an M$ account and not local. Thats just what I see day to day.

Will move over to a for of Linux OS at some stage when W10 stops getting updates (I have now found and used a OneDrive tool and a separate GUI, but it works - and that is critical in this house)

I may need to get a chromebook to get Sky Sports running, but that is now the only bug bear (did not work on Waydroid, WINE - I may have another look at ChomeOS Flex and the "hack" to get Play Store installed - but boy, that is a faff)

[Tilda Rice]

Re: Not worth it

So you dislike telemtry but will use Google products instead? :) hrhr

[simonlb]

Re: Not worth it

Will move over to a for of Linux OS at some stage when W10 stops getting updates

Unfortunately, that won't happen because MS has prior form for this with Win7. After people learned how to block GWX from downloading and preparing Win10 for installation on their Win7 machines, ensured they didn't download the update which removed the option to 'let me check which updates to install', and were quite happily carrying on with doing stuff, MS started throwing out an increasing number of 'updates' for Win7 - on an almost daily basis - which all seemed to remove or disable some functionality, or just break things in random ways, as if they were deliberately trying to cripple all Win7 systems.

If you think MS will leave you alone on Win10 when the support window closes, think again.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: Not worth it

If MS want to install Win11 on my existing Win10 machines, all they have to do is remove the blocks that they have put in to stop it.

However, they've doubled down on those, so I think it is pretty unlikely that they'll do what they did for Win7.

[druck]

Re: Not worth it

I'll take your bet on that.

[TReko]

Re: Not worth it

I'm of the same opinion as you.

I've been primarily a Microsoft person since DOS 3.3. I've used most versions of Windows, been on NT since 3.51, I've played with Linux since the very very early days, but Windows has been my daily driver, as it had more apps I need. However, after 35 years, I will switch to Linux as my main OS soon and run any Windows stuff I need in a firewalled VM.

Microsoft has just got to hostile to its users. Most have little choice to stay in the abusive relationship now.

[HKmk23]

Re: Not worth it

Exactly the same as me....either that works or the final few of my Windows 10 machines go offline for good and I build or buy a laptop for emails and searches. Those laptops that you can modify look pretty good.

[Wokstation]

How can I?

My machines, despite running games like Fortnite and supporting my vr headset just fine, do not meet the requirements for windows 11 because of secure boot.

There's three mid range gaming rigs in the house for the family, that'd mean spending anywhere up to £2,500 just to run windows 11. As each needs replacing, maybe I'll have to go with 11, but I don't think Microsoft get that their new shiny not only isn't particularly shiny, but it's definitely not worth trashing three perfectly good rigs for.

[Like a badger]

Re: How can I?

The hardware restrictions were particularly poorly thought through, and MS are now suffering the consequence that people don't want to upgrade unless they have to. Whether that has actually cost them any real moolah is an interesting question that I can't answer accurately. I'd hazard a guess that average enterprise cost for a W10>11 upgrade is around $50, but I can't be bothered to do the maths for the differential uptake of Win 11 versus Win 10. Maybe somebody else has got more time on their hands?

I gave in and upgraded two household PCs earlier this year, because they were getting long in the tooth, even so that meant that MS waited two years beyond W11 retail launch for my upgrade money (and even then, since I bought via a reputable licence reseller I don't know if MS got a penny).

[stupid-frakking-handle]

Re: How can I?

These days MS only makes money on Desktop OS when the customer buys a new licence, usually in the form of a new PC. I haven't paid to upgrade a Windows license on existing hardware for at least a decade, so uses not upgrading existing machines because of hardware limitations doesn't cost Microsoft a penny.

[Julian Poyntz]

Re: How can I?

Just having created a W11 usb stick earlier, Rufus has options to disable most of the h/w requirements. Not sure how much longer that will work for, but it's there now

[GraXXoR]

Re: How can I?

These sorts of shenanigans are totally fine for average users, me included. Rufus got W11 onto my GOD Pocket 2 of all things! But of course it’s not gonna fly when it comes to corporate installs which need to be guaranteed or at least accountable to a predictable future compatibility.

[Grunchy]

Re: How can I?

Microsoft has abandoned Windows, didn’t you hear? Yeah you can activate any version for nothing now.

Massgrave.dev is the website.

Scottie explains how it works here:

https://youtu.be/rDH0f59klWc

[Locomotion69]

Re: How can I?

Same here.

But at least it keeps crap like Recall out of the (back)door.

[Dan 55]

Re: How can I?

Perhaps your motherboard manufacturers included a TPM header on the board, in which case you can buy the TPM modules. Should you really want Windows 11...

[Grunchy]

Re: How can I?

“Perhaps your motherboard manufacturers included a TPM header on the board, in which case you can buy the TPM modules. Should you really want Windows 11...”

Hey did you guys hear there’s a nearly complete ISA bus in that TPM header? Some guys have been busy hackin’ away and managed to get old Sound Blaster audio cards working on a modern PC! Some think it might even be possible to get a floppy drive controller card working, too!

[Like a badger]

Ultimately enterprise users will have to move

Simply because they'll be unwilling to use an unsupported OS, which looks to be in about a year's and a month?

Although you have to admire MS, when they're struggling to get enterprise to adopt it, they then propose to roll in the guaranteed security disaster of Recall. Clearly everybody at Redmond is busy in circle-jerks featuring a lot of dull, barely intelligible Powerpoint decks, and not a single person with influence has any understanding of the needs and wishes of enterprise customers (or personal customers, for that matter).

[AnoniMouse]

Re: Ultimately enterprise users will have to move

>> Simply because they'll be unwilling to use an unsupported OS, which looks to be in about a year's and a month?

RansomWare by another name

[Dazed and Confused]

Not all HW W11 compatible

I'm not sure where MS managed to come up with a figure of 88% of systems out there being W11 compatible. Perhaps they carefully chose sites that regular update their systems.

Many organisations don't. Where I am we have a mix of systems where some are ready for 11 and some aren't, even when the desktop boxes are what the vendor describes as being the same "generation" of machine. If we update the systems which are W11 ready it means that the behaviour of systems varies from one machine to another and that is not a tenable situation.

So the plan is to stay on W10 for as long as possible.

Only when all systems have reached their natural end of life will the HW be replaced.

When MS tried to strong arm everyone from W7 to W10 there are a similar situation, W10 needed UEFI and so BIOS based PCs were stuck, MS were sufficiently keen to get people to W10 they relented and allowed the OS to work on the older boxes.

If MS are keen to see us move to W11 they'll have to do the same thing again.

Alternatively, if they really want, they can buy us a whole load of new PCs, but we don't intend to.

[David Hicklin]

Re: Not all HW W11 compatible

> Many organisations don't

Most major corporate environments lease hardware like laptops etc , often with a 3 year cycle, so they will be all right eventually. I get a new shiny in March which will have W11.

As you point out many organisations buy hardware to be run until it dies and along with most consumers most will be be able to afford a mass scrapping and replacement.

[TReko]

Re: Not all HW W11 compatible

> "W10 needed UEFI and so BIOS based PCs were stuck"

I haven't found this to be the case. W10 works fine on my PCs without UEFI enabled.

[Sudosu]

Re: Not all HW W11 compatible

Plus you get the benefit of Microsoft not bricking your dual boot Linux with a patch.

/end sarc

[Dazed and Confused]

Re: Not all HW W11 compatible

> "W10 needed UEFI and so BIOS based PCs were stuck"

I haven't found this to be the case. W10 works fine on my PCs without UEFI enabled.

That's what I said, it needed UEFI and then in order to move older machines to W10 they changed things so that it would run on legacy BIOS boxes without secure boot.

[Sudosu]

Re: Not all HW W11 compatible

Unfortunately you're corporate insurance provider may have other ideas about that plan if it is past MS EOL support date for W10.

I've noted more pointed questions during my policy renewals over the last couple years about "currently supported and patched".

[Mishak]

Another reason

They haven't finished it yet?

At least, I can't find the setting to change the direction of the scroll wheel - either needs a registry hack (the setting is available, just not exposed in the API) or a mouse with additional software...

[stupid-frakking-handle]

Re: Another reason

Settings-> Search for Mouse to get you to the Mouse settings page, then select "Additional mouse settings" which brings up the old XP-style control panel for the mouse :-)

[Mishak]

It does...

but there is no "reverse direction control".

[Geoff Campbell]

Re: It does...

It's right there on my Mouse Settings page, labelled "Scrolling Direction". Do you have the latest release installed?

GJC

[Mishak]

Re: It does...

Version 23H2 - not there on Mouse Settings or Additional Mouse settings.

I've got two (different) machines with the same behaviour - I have admin rights on one (so not too much of a pain), but I have to get support to intervene for the other (and it seems as if the setting is per mouse, per USB port).

[milliemoo83]

Re: It does...

"(and it seems as if the setting is per mouse, per USB port)."

This is because when you plug an existing device into a different port, Windows decides it's never seen it before and treats it as such - as it's a new device to that port.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: It does...

That's only true if the device doesn't have an identifier. Any competently manufactured USB device will have a unique ID in the form of a VID/PID/Serial triplet.

[Geoff Campbell]

Re: It does...

Oh, OK - I can confirm it's there in 24H2, you'll be pleased to hear.

GJC

[Pascal Monett]

"Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

Funny, I seem to have heard the same song since XP got replaced by <shudder> Vista.

Hey Redmond : how's about you made an OS that actually pleased people for a change ?

You used to be able to do that . . .

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: "Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

If they don't listen to their customers - and evidence is they don't - then they're not even going to know what will please them. In the echo chamber they've probably convinced themselves that W11 will.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

Micro$loth has never made a decent OS. Every version of Windoze has been crap.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

There is some irony in you referencing XP. XP was the original OS that people hated. MS was busy with the antitrust case so they dumped XP to market early with IE built into the OS so it couldn't be removed. It was buggy and really needed a lot more RAM to run than any PC had in those days.

It had a very poor uptake and most users were looking to skip XP and go straight to Longhorn (Vista). The delays with Longhorn and with Win2k going end of mainstream support in 2005 pushed a lot of companies and home users to make the transition to XP. By that stage, most of the bugs had been resolved and PCs had far more RAM so XP ran well and everyone loved it.

I think MS thought the same thing would happen with Vista. Once again, it needed faster HDDs than the majority that were being sold at that time. Eventually it was re-skinned and re-launched as Windows 7 which was loved (yes, under the hood, Win7 is Vista).

[simonlb]

Re: "Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

under the hood, Win7 is Vista

So which bit of Vista used to thrash the HDD for twenty minutes straight when the machine was booted up? Glad they decided to remove that in Win7.

[isdnip]

Re: "Windows 11 [..] has a way to go before finally surpassing its predecessor"

By the time its service packs were ready, XP was very stable. I had it running for months without a reboot. No, I didn't use IE. And I never used 8, which was a dog. They alternate between usable and junk releases. Vista and 8 were losers. 11 fits that side of the pendulum too so I am staying away. Maybe they have an A team and a B team.

[Swordfish1]

Hardware requirements

Whats to stop MS doing this again in the future with later versions of Windows beyond Windows 11, and even more stringent requirements.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hardware requirements

I'm not sure "more stringent requirements" would matter too much - due to the march of technology it means that for most non-compliant W11 machines, even if it was only the TPM 2.0 requirement, that means a new mobo, and chances are that your existing RAM won't work, it's a toss up whether your CPU will work depending on the socket. Pretty quickly it's a wholesale replacement not a cost effective upgrade.

[AirOp]

Re: Hardware requirements

I think we can get TPM2.0 add on cards...

[navarac]

Non-compliant W10 machines

I look forward to the day when a lot of W10 machines are got rid of by people because they wont run W11. In other words, all those machines that are perfectly capable of running Linux. I'll need to grab some of them, unless most of these people wake up to the scandalous fact that Microsoft is intent on filling landfill, of course. So much for their "green" credentials.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Non-compliant W10 machines

In the contest between Microsoft and their customers it might yet be Microsoft that blinks first - so you might be disappointed.

[MJI]

Re: Non-compliant W10 machines

New home PC so I took the decision to run Linux.

Do not regret it at all.

Much more relaxing to use.

[Sudosu]

Re: Non-compliant W10 machines

Everyone keeps reading the name wrong, since they let you add Ubuntu to Windows they are adopting a similar naming standard.

So, you see, those are lower case L's not 1's and they stand for "Likely Landfill" edition of Windows.

Don't worry, I won't quit my day job...

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't just apathy, it is active avoidance.

It isn't just apathy, it is active avoidance. My machine is more than capable of running Windows 11. It even installed it at one point but I caught it in time and changed back to Windows 10 and promptly disabled the TPM feature in its BIOS.

I don't want Windows 11. It doesn't offer anything that Windows 10 does except additional finger exercise clicking through additional options to get all the features I need on the context menu. (I know a reg hack will fix this for now but why should I have to go to that trouble). It is even inconsistent about simple things like the copy / cut and paste icons in those context menus. Sometimes they are above the main list and other times below. Add in the advertising, telemetry, AI bloat and the rest and I can see no reason at all for running Windows 11 and plenty of reasons to avoid it.

[bemusedHorseman]

Re: It isn't just apathy, it is active avoidance.

When my current rig was brand new straight out of the Amazon boxes, I went into the bios settings and disabled TPM before I even let my Win10 install media get anywhere near it. May as well use their hardware insistence against them, with a glorious "This device cannot run Windows 11" right in the system info panel.

Try and "upgrade" me against my will now, MICROS~1 (see icon ==>)

[Portent]

Does W10 end of life mean I will finnaly stop getting Windows updates at inconvenient times?

W11 - A new task bar and a lot more spying. Also a significant cost upgrading several machines.

W10 - When end of life I will no longer get random updates and reboots. Life will be peaceful again.

I'm staying on W10 :)

[Dave 126]

Re: Does W10 end of life mean I will finnaly stop getting Windows updates at inconvenient times?

To avoid the exasperating reboots in Win10, you can use Group Policy Editor. However, if you have a Win 10 Home version, you first need to find a trusted copy of GPE and copy it to some windows subdirectory. This method worked for me. Other people suggest using Regedit or Powershell.

Sorry I can't remember details, but I found my solution after searching "windows 10 turn off restart after update"

[isdnip]

Re: Does W10 end of life mean I will finnaly stop getting Windows updates at inconvenient times?

GPE works well on Windows 10 Pro. So I have it set so it doesn't crash my system, with its various active processes running between days, when it thinks there might be some new updates to install. I have not heard of its working on Home to disable the automatic updates. I doubt it's just a registry entry or that would be well known by now. The task scheduler method that your search string leads to, which works on Home, doesn't prevent the update, just the reboot that follows it. I don't think it's good for stability to leave an update half executed and half waiting for a reboot. GPE on Pro can block the update.

[X5-332960073452]

Re: Does W10 end of life mean I will finnaly stop getting Windows updates at inconvenient times?

To get GPE in Windows Home version, from an admin command prompt

FOR %F IN ("%SystemRoot%\servicing\Packages\Microsoft-Windows-GroupPolicy-ClientTools-Package~*.mum") DO (DISM /Online /NoRestart /Add-Package:"%F")

FOR %F IN ("%SystemRoot%\servicing\Packages\Microsoft-Windows-GroupPolicy-ClientExtensions-Package~*.mum") DO (DISM /Online /NoRestart /Add-Package:"%F")

[David Hicklin]

Re: Does W10 end of life mean I will finnaly stop getting Windows updates at inconvenient times?

> I'm staying on W10 :)

still on w7 here !

[Anonymous Coward]

re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

There is not enough space to list all that is wrong with W11. It is a POS pure and simple.

Avoid at all costs.

There was (operative word) one W11 system in my family. I upgraded as the user was giving birth. Two lovely girls and one bastard PC.

The new Mum said, 'leave it'.

Nine months later I got the call... 'When are you coming to put Linux on my PC?" It was driving her mad.

That lovely lady was brought up on Windows and even worked for MS in the UK for a while as a developer.

If she won't touch it with a 400ft barge pole then there can't be MUCH right with it.

My grandkids are about to reach the terrible two's and I love them to bits. W11 is not allowed in our family.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

"That lovely lady was brought up on Windows and even worked for MS in the UK for a while as a developer."

I'd have thought it not beyond her to install it herself in that case. You could always have insisted on at least one more grandkid.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

She has a 9-month old and knows how (and what) to delegate.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

That lovely lady was brought up on Windows and even worked for MS in the UK for a while as a developer.

Then why did she need you to install linux?! According to the linux followers it is easy to install and run. Or are they just lying...

[Joe W]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

You clearly have kids in their terrible twos (and twins, which means basically madness squared)...

(and you obviously have tried installing a modern linux distro - like Mint or Ubuntu or whatver - even 10 years ago the installer was good enough)

(but I did install Devuan on an older Lenovo laptop half a year ago, the greatest problem was finding my usb sticks that I had mislaid. Linux has drivers for WPA3, the Win11 the laptop came with apparently doesn't)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

Then why didn't she install it herself!

If linux is easy then show would not need help.

[mahan]

Re: re: Although there is little glaringly wrong with Windows 11

"W11 is not allowed in our family."

Imagine when your kids (or grandkids) rebel against you by installing Windows 11.

[williamyf]

the Adoption will follow a weird curve

And it will be defined by companies. Around oct 2025 there will be a ramp-up of adoption, from corporations that do not want to pay for the ESU.

Then, for the next 3 years, smaller ramps from companies in the ESU threadmill, that either finished the transition, or do not want to keep paying ESU, then, around jan 2030, another ramp up from companies on LTSC 2019 that go out of support, then, finally, around Jan 2032, the last holdouts using IoT 2021...

expect win 11 (like vista and 8 before them) NOT to have an ESU, so, the latest laggards will have to go from 10 to 12 in one fell swoop.

[Roland6]

Re: the Adoption will follow a weird curve

I expect MS will be wanting to push AI into W12, so I expect they will up the hardware requirements (for W12) and in early 2026 give 12 months notice of end of support for W11 (as per modern lifecycle policy)…

[iam_sysop]

AI MUST BE OPTIONAL

Out-moding billions of dollars of hardware for a landfill when nothing is wrong with it, combined with the inability to remove AI features and data-harvesting from local PCs is why Windows 10 will be the last iteration on our networks.

[Nematode]

Re: AI MUST BE OPTIONAL

Good point. It's a wonder the environmental lobby haven't made a fuss. Where's Greenpeace when you need them ?

[Doctor Syntax]

I guess you meant W10 installed itself.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Glaringly Obvious

At this point, the bucket-load of moral, ethical, philosophical, and plain *human* reasons to avoid Win11 that Microsoft have so helpfully invested billions into providing us, are actually taking a back-seat when I think about the prospect of using it at home. Front and centre to me is the fact that... it just plain sucks to use? I don't *want* to have to re-learn how to scroll, use a context menu, copy-and-paste, find the start menu, dig through the registry to strip out the ads, write a whole bunch of new hardware firewall rules to block the tracking and, oh yeah, re-build my entire PC. So so very much of it feels like change for the sake of change and I am just too fucking old for that horseshit now. I don't much relish the thought of switching to linux either, much for the same reasons, but if a point in time comes where my choices are "w11" or "linux", I'm going to go with the one that doesn't pour billions into providing us with ample moral, ethical, philosophical, and plain *human* reasons to avoid it.

Gonna run this win10 machine 'til the wheels fall off it though.

[Adelio]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

Same here, Just turned 65 and my PC is about 4 years old. Works just as well now as it did when i bought it. (32gb Ram, Ryzen 7 5800X, RTX 2060 and lots of Drives)

I DID install windows 10 although i had a brief thought of using windows 8.1.

I have not seen ANYTHING in windows 11 that I am interested in, Windows 10 does all I need. In fact the new additions to windows AFTER XP seem to be mainly about marketing and not useful functionality.

I Guess my PC will still be good for another 5 years (At least) unless something major breaks. Then that becomes a hard descison

[Roland6]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

> In fact the new additions to windows AFTER XP seem to be mainly about marketing and not useful functionality.

The trouble is, there are some really good core platform enhancements over W7 in W10 (just as there were with W7 over XP) that the UI/UX makeover fluffery totally obscures…

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

"I don't much relish the thought of switching to linux either, much for the same reasons"

Learn it once, then you won't have to relearn it for W12 and whatever name replaces W13.

[GraXXoR]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

While I love Linux, I find that I’m having to constantly relearn things and that a large sum of material on the internet is actually obsolete or just doesn’t apply to the particular variant of Linux and subvariant of UI I’m using. Wayland being one such thing I found myself battling with far too often.

I actually believe that the sheer variety of linuxes is working against adoption since it’s splintering the bathtub of the knowledge base into finer and finer buckets and then mere cups or even in some obscure cases, thimbles.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

The 'archinstall' script makes Arch Linux the easiest and best Linux to install and use.

All other Linux distros (except Debian) are pointless.

Enjoy!

[Yankee Doodle Doofus]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

"The 'archinstall' script makes Arch Linux the easiest and best Linux to install and use."

Arch user here. I hope you are being sarcastic? The archinstall script is great, when it works. I haven't tried it in a few months, but it seems they break something new with each new monthly ISO. Sometimes it's a desktop environment choice that doesn't work, sometimes it won't install at all. And the install script is completely worthless if you are trying to dual-boot. I love Arch, but recomending it to anyone who doesn't like to tinker is a bad idea. Calling it "easy" should be a crime.

[Pixelbrain]

Re: The Glaringly Obvious

I had trouble getting the Nvidia card with two screens working properly on arch. So tried Manjaro which is arched based. Similar prob but worked it out . It's runs well and easy to use. Prob could get the video card to work in arch now should I move from Manjaro. Picked arch based because steam is based on arch

[Reginald O.]

Et tu Notepad?

The last Windows update 11 borked Notepad so that now it gives a "Bad image" error. There is no fix from MS for it, but there is a suggested fix involving replacing some C+ library using an outside installation app, power shell and the ability to follow a 15 step convoluted process without one mistake. Actually, there are several suggested fixes, none the same as the other. Which one to choose?

Why after all these years must they break...notepad? And, apparently several other lesser apps?

Meanwhile, W11 is making or trying to making about 20-30000 contacts a day to a multitude of ms addresses keep my computer up to date, ...or something.

What's not to like?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Et tu Notepad?

"Why after all these years must they break...notepad?"

Because they can.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: Et tu Notepad?

More likely, because they can't not.

[imanidiot]

Re: Et tu Notepad?

Use notepad++, don't look back.

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Et tu Notepad?

Sometimes Notepad++ is just overkill.

[Plest]

I wouldn't bother to be honest!

Upgrade if you can and you want, else don't bother as a W11 user I've yet to see anything in W11 that's worth the effort. I'm just too lazy to bother putting W10 back on my laptop, so W11 can sit there for the time being until I have some holiday booked and have time to spend a day re-building.

[bunnywarren]

Next step is Linux

Just had Window 11 install on my previously Windows 10 laptop at work and I can't see any improvement. Things have changed, several times for the worse, and the laptop as a whole feels slower. When it comes time for me to update my Windows 10 computers at home I'll be moving to Linux. Some of them are as close to Windows 10 as Windows 11 seems to be.

[Antron Argaiv]

Another?

MS keeps pushing new versioms of Windows. Geez, guys...it's just a desktop OS...how tough can it be to get it right?

[LessWileyCoyote]

Think I might look into a 0patch ('zeropatch') subscription after the MS updates to W10 cease, just to keep the security updates coming.

[cFortC]

Aging hardware or new seats

Other than aging hardware, or the October 2025 deadline for Windows 10 support, why would users or businesses spontaneously upgrade to Windows 11?

My personal situation, and my uninformed projection of how that applies to the wider world, is that users and businesses migrate to Windows 11 when they replace their PC's, or add new seats.

In my case, in 2022 I replaced my aging Windows 10 laptop and opted for the Windows 11 system image on the new one. I accommodated and set it up as much as possible to retain familiar look and feel.

Then, just last month I replaced my 12-year old desktop workstation. Of course I took the Windows 11 image since I've been there and done that.

Chalk up two new deployments of Windows 11 here, thanks to aging hardware. Otherwise I would have waited until October 2025 or beyond.

[GraXXoR]

The only thing keeping me from using Linux are my VR devices. I have a Pimax 5K+ and an Oculus Rift OG.

I don’t know if Linux can support either of those.

I’ve found my stream deck is usable and I think I can get RGB on my Corsair keyboard customized.

I’d hate to have to dump VR for Linux but if windows keeps on keeping on the way it has been then I’ll have to say good bye to one of my favorite toys.

[Too old for this sh*t]

Bad timing?

The next 12 months are not an ideal time to be forced into replacing perfectly functioning computers as business money is tight. I have started to slowly roll out new PCs to clients but it's a dribble and the prices are noticeably going up.

I'm seriously tempted to suggest imaging the old-but-decent PC, spin up a hyperV gen2 then upgrade that to W11. Then get the end user to live in a vm. Most don't need sound or USB access but might be enough to carry on until the PC expires naturally - especially on their AiO PCS which cost a bomb to have got in the first place.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I pay to degrade my computer's performance even further?

[aeastham]

Faulty Intel processors

The reason my pc isn't compatible is that it has a 7700k i7 processor which was top of the range in 2017 when I bought it. Unfortunately, this generation of processors were vulnerable to meltdown and spectre because of Intel design flaws. The pc meets every other criteria for windows 11.

I can't believe that there isn't a massive class action against Intel and Microsoft regarding this. Even worse, it appears that if I buy a new pc with one of the the latest Intel processors, it may actually crash all the time.

The truth needs to be told about this. I think it's scandalous

[worksong]

How can MS be trusted?

It's not just the unavoidable AI creep; they haven't delivered on the basics.

It took 2 years for MS to allow users to turn off task bar "grouping" & have a button for each active file...just like Win 10.

It's now 3 years since Win 11 removed the ability to run a multi-level task bar, which countless users need for max productivity. Vague promises to "restore in a future update" have been empty, & I have to use 3rd-party software for this most basic functionality (which most corp users aren't allowed to do).

MS has clearly decided their customers can't be trusted to know what they want & need...so MS will decide for them. Isn't that the Apple playbook?

[AirOp]

Windows 7, Open Shell

If I could, I would still be running windows 7. Windows 7 can be configured to be better in every way.

Windows 10 has screwed me by installing an update automatically when I was up late working on a rush project. I am a compulsive updater, I check every day on my own--when I am done with work.

On Windows 11 I cannot install open shell. Quick Launch does not work, so I have the horribly designed pinned items on taskbar. I also cannot make the start menu just be a simple list. Windows 10 is bad, but I can work around it. Windows 11 forces unusable interfaces.

I switched the kids computer to Kubuntu 24.04. I have steam installed on it. I couldn't figure out how to get roblox to work, but they have geforce now and we can play fortnite together.

My landlord who is an author is very happy with his pagemaker 7. I got that to work in Wine. We're not going to be running windows.

I have Solidworks, and that is not supported properly on Linux, but I ain't gonna be using windows 11. nope nope nope.

[Joe666]

EOL Migration Plan

I have a W10 machine that can support W11. Unfortunately, it appears to be dying. I've got a new machine in mind (it's NOT Intel this time) and one of the options is to install W10 instead of W11. If I must buy I will buy a W10 machine and rebuild. When W10 dies I'll sign off the internet for that machine and keep my purchased copy of Office. That's all I care about anyway. Then I'll buy a new machine and move to Linux for my day-to-day life. Maybe sooner if I can't handle the ads and feature updates from MS. I figure by then I'll be about 78. Should be the last go around for a new machine anyway.

Maybe it will be a long winter this year and my machine will last enough so I can convert my spreadsheets to LibreOffice and skip a step and go directly to Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not about the hardware, Windows 11 is just unusable

As others have said, it's not about the hardware - I have 3 machines all Win11 capable, but I find Win11 unusable.

The main issue I have is the taskbar. I have a lot of windows open at a time and my standard taskbar is 3 rows high with never combine on. MS added the never combine option to Windows 11 taskbar, but it's a joke - when you open a few apps, all of a sudden it compresses to a 3rd of the taskbar and groups everything into a single item. Did no-one test this? How could they release it?

Win11 is just a large browser and MS are turning everything into a web experience. I miss true native apps.

MS is using ReactNative for all their latest development and you can feel it in the web feel (especially flatness) and general instability of modern apps. Start Menu, Taskbar, new Settings app, Teams, Outlook, etc. They are destroying everything and it's taking so long to get features delivered and when they are delivered, they are so poorly implemented.

Windows was all about a consistent look and feel from all applications, and that was great as there was a low learning curve. With everything being based on web, the inconsistencies of the web are coming through.

Win11 is once again focused on touch interfaces (as was Win8) and that leads to a lot of space wastage and having to get rid of standard menus. They should have designed it with a toggle for desktop mode vs tablet styling.

Win8 is the only other version of Windows I've skipped. I started using it when 8.1 came out, that wasn't too bad. I even quite like Vista (I had fast HDDs).

I'm really concerned about the direction MS is taking.

Issues with Win11:

- Taskbar not usable

- Start menu is frustrating

- Scroll bars too narrow for using with a mouse

- Navigating back on Flat lists goes back to top - in settings, if you scroll down to a setting, click on it, it opens in the same window, when you navigate back, it goes to the top of the previous list

- Too much whitespace makes everything take up so much more space - settings, files in explorer, etc. Checklist boxes are a bit of a joke - go to Task Manager --> Details --> Right click on a header and click Select Columns - it's actually ridiculous how long this list is because of all the white space...

- Settings app freezes when it's doing things (like processing updates)

- I don't like most of the icons, especially the ones in explorer

- I'm not a fan of the sea of grey, but that's been there since Win10

This is not an extensive list as I'm not a daily Win11 driver, I have a Win11 VM that I update every time there is a new update in the hope that they have finally fixed something...

What worries me is they are going to ruin office as well. And with O365, you will be forced to upgrade to it. Teams was the first "modern" office app and now they are working on Outlook. The goal is to have 1 shared code base across Windows, Mac and Web so it means everything will get the web experience. I'm already seeing the instability in Outlook.

[A.P. Veening]

Re: Not about the hardware, Windows 11 is just unusable

What worries me is they are going to ruin office as well. And with O365, you will be forced to upgrade to it. Teams was the first "modern" office app and now they are working on Outlook. The goal is to have 1 shared code base across Windows, Mac and Web so it means everything will get the web experience. I'm already seeing the instability in Outlook.

No need to worry, MS Office is already ruined. Just replace it with LibreOffice and Thunderbird.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

My current rig came with W10 pre-installed in 2019. It tried to 'update' to W11 and failed due to the hardware requirements. I didn't let it try again.

Why should I bin a perfectly good working order rig and spend money for a new one that does the same job? No, thanks, MS.

I prefer to make my own choices. This is why I switched to Linux and found my way to Arch. I haven't looked back, especially as my work laptop just got replaced and then updated to W11. NB: W11 is crap. Save your money.

.

[Chasxith]

Never looking back?

I currently have one Win 11 laptop in the house and have found it irritating enough to the extend it doesn't get used much....my gaming desktop is currently on W10 and is just about new enough to be W11 capable. However if linux gaming continues to get as good as I've found (happily running just about every game I care to try on my test rig running Linux Mint) then it is very likely to get the Mint treatment too.

Sadly this coincides with my father's 2013 iMac starting to bite the dust (it's still got a 1TB 5400rpm HDD, and the later Apple updates were optimised for SSD and distributed data across the disks - as a result it runs like dogshit alongside no security updates since 2021 or so....). He doesn't want to spend over a grand on a new iMac with enough storage space so it looks like I'll be providing tech support for a W11 all-in-one PC for some time into the future once he finally switches.

I'm not looking forward to the learning curve he's going to have...

[Excused Boots]

Re: Never looking back?

"Sadly this coincides with my father's 2013 iMac starting to bite the dust (it's still got a 1TB 5400rpm HDD, and the later Apple updates were optimised for SSD and distributed data across the disks - as a result it runs like dogshit alongside no security updates since 2021 or so....). He doesn't want to spend over a grand on a new iMac with enough storage space so it looks like I'll be providing tech support for a W11 all-in-one PC for some time into the future once he finally switches.

I'm not looking forward to the learning curve he's going to have...”

Indeed sometimes you have to factor in the time and effort involved in learning or teaching and supporting a new system. For about a (possibly second-hand) M2 Mac Mini, and a 24 inch monitor, maybe an external SSD for the storage . Should be a lot less than a grand. Yes won’t be ‘exactly’ the same, but the learning curve should be a lot shallower!

[Phil Koenig]

Re: Never looking back?

I have a 2012 Mac Mini (typing on it right now) and it made a huge improvement migrating to a Samsung SSD. (850 Pro, durable MLC NAND)

If you can put 16GB in your iMac I think that is still a workable setup although it's probably stuck with Catalina or *maybe* Big Sur, unless you install a hack to run something newer.

I have various PCs running various OS's but I use this one a lot for web surfing because it's quiet and frugal on power and fonts render better than Windoze.

My plan is to get a 2018 Mac Mini which is the last Intel model, supports latest macOS (but possibly not the one coming later this year) and the last one that supports RAM upgrade. (Unfortunately the SSD is soldered in, but Apple does that with all the Minis these days)

Since I use VirtualBox that's better than even a fancy new M series Mac because VirtualBox isn't supported on those.

[Excused Boots]

And with all due respect to the various posters on here, sometimes I do think many of you are missing the point. Often we see posts along the lines of ‘I won’t be updating, I’ll move my family unto <insert flavour here> a Linux distribution’

Fine, all fine. So many of you are talking about your personal/home setups, yes? NEWS FLASH, Microsoft doesn’t actually care about you, they don't give the tiniest of s**ts about you or what you run.They care about the massive corporate market, they care that people (including you - home PC user) is using Azure and paying them money.

The big issue with the Corporate world is insurance, cyber insurance, and one of the first questions is along the lines of “Are you running an officially supported version of the OS on your devices” Yes or No? Answer, 'well officially no, but...’, sorry, no insurance for you! Be tempted to lie, try to make a claim should the worst happen!

But what happens if come next October, a large proportion of Windows machines in corporates are still on W10?

This is a game of Chicken, who is going to blink first? Personally, my money, if I were a betting person, which I’m not, would be on MS backing down just before the Oct. ’25 deadline!

[Ken Hagan]

I agree with your analysis, but I think you'll lose that bet. My impression us that MS are happy to lose the customers who won't upgrade to Win11 because in Microsoft's view, those aren't the customers bringing in revenue.

[Screwed]

I have an ageing W10 machine that cannot run W11. But I now use an Apple Silicon Mac and only use the old box for a couple of things now - an app for which I've found no alternative and to get over some issues with Microsoft Word under macos.

Ironically, this has forced me to W11 - as a VM under Fusion. Amazingly, the now very old app installed and works fine - despite it having been created and compiled for Intel, probably W7.

[Scott 1]

Hot Garbage

My work laptop was stable and extremely fast on Windows 10. After the forced upgrade to Windows 11, it's now a sluggish, frequently crashing (about 1 to 3 times per work day) POS. It's not a RAM issue (typically 45 to 55 percent free). SSD is only about 35% full. Drivers are all updated to their latest versions available. Application and System logs don't give any useful information about why crashes occur.

My co-worker, who uses a similar brand / model of laptop is having the same issue. He tried wiping his SSD and re-installing from scratch. Same issues. I would switch to Mac or Linux, but unfortunately there are a few programs that I need to use that don't have a Mac or Linux equivalent.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it is disappointing to see an industry trying to prove that with each iteration, you need more to do less. Computing science works on developing better algorithms with tighter bounds, robust distributed systems, microkernel OS'es, provable code, and so on.

What, if any, new features did W7-11 introduce to warrant geometric increase in hardware?

If you look at Phoronix benchmarks, Linux kernels get _faster_ each major version (with exceptions).

Linux is not invulnerable to bloat, but get a 5 year old refurbished Thinkpad and put a lean Linux distro on it, and it beats modern systems with Windows (the few times I can be blackmailed/cajoled to use them).

Really hoping I'm wrong.

[Pixelbrain]

Nope not having win11

I refuse to spends hundreds of not thousands on new hardware just to run windows11 when my current machine would have no problem. It only doesn't have the TPM chip. Been looking at moving over to linux.

So far have recently installed Manjaro. Got my Nvidia card running with dual screen as much as nvidia doesn't care for linux. And audio which can be troublesome with on board sound blaster.

Happily surfing the net no probs. I even tried one of my steam games. Shadow of tomb raider and that ran with no problems , I think it ran even better actually . Not bad for something that's designed to run on windows. Still have more to go but not really missing windows

[0laf]

What does it add other than a 1

I've been running 11 on a compatible laptop for over a year and still have 10 on an incompatible desktop.

I've seen nothing in 11 that I want or need over 10 (or over 7,XP, 2k etc etc old arguments you know them). What it does do better than 10 is hide shit in even harder to find places. Standard buttons, Settings, config consoles etc all buried or just moved to new places for teh sdake of moving so you need to relearn locations all over again.

That's ignoring telemetry gathering, the enforced cheap version AI and the MS nagware are standard with the added threat of actual advertisments being included in your machine as a feature at any moment (as opposed to the MS nagware adverts you definitely get).

Maybe it's better for noobs but I think they are being fooled by having the oily bits hidden from them.

[Grunchy]

Ghost Spectre versions

Well I switched over to Ubuntu but I still run “classic” windows 7 and 10 by installing the ghost spectre versions in Virt-Manager. They run with full video acceleration because my motherboard has a second full length PCI-e slot for a dedicated Video card, which is passed through to the virtual machine.

It’s a legacy setup but the nice part is that I can easily take snapshots, make full system backups, clone the system as many times I feel like. I isolate the VMs from the internet so they can’t be hacked or meddled with by Microsoft. Zero need for any anti-virus. I keep all working data in a special folder on the Linux host as a Samba share. I run legacy programs on Microsoft so it’s ok if nothing ever gets “updated” (meddled with). Those programs already work good enough.

It actually harkens back to “good old” days before Agile forced people to run shitty buggy defeatured beta copies and endure years of constant updates while trying to get something done. I have zero intention of buying anything from Microsoft Apple Google Sony ever again. If Microsoft buys Ubuntu, I’ll switch to another Debian implementation I reckon.