Missing scissors cause 36 flight cancellations in Japan Thirty-six flights were cancelled at Japan's New Chitose airport on Saturday after a pair of scissors went missing. Japanese media report that retail outlets at the airport – which serves the regional city of Chitose on Japan's northernmost island, Hokkaido – are required to store scissors in a locker. When staff need to cut …
Scissors can be in your carryon if the pointy 3nd is 4 inches (~10 cm) or less from the pivot point. A trained person can easily kill with a sharp pointy tool of that size.
Most of these rules concerning carryon are pointless.
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/scissors
> Most of these rules concerning carryon are pointless.
I remember one occasion going through an airport's departure security check and, after my carry-on came out of the x-ray machine the security guy pulled out my laptop lock-cable (i.e. Kensington-type cable), held it like a garotte, and said "I'm confiscating this as it's a weapon", at which stage I pointed him to the nearby beyond just-past-security "electronics" shop and told him they sold the very same cables which negating his point. He did thankfully relent at that point and left me keep it.
Same airport with the then policy of confiscation of all bottles of liquid in carry-on (which were thrown in a nearby wheelie bin) - Me: "so if you're taking my bottle due to the non-zero risk that it might contain explosives then how is it safe to leave that bin full of liquid which has a non-zero risk of containing explosives next to the security lines for hours at a time before the bin is emptied?". As expected he didn't know what to say... Also when I asked about how the (non-zero risk of containing explosives) collected liquids were disposed of eventually he indicated they were handled the same as any other airport waste...
Security Theatre indeed!
Are the shops air-side after people have passed through security? Or don't they trust that if they had been stolen the security might not spot them passing through the security gate?
EDIT, oh, never mind. The very next post down states that there are shops air-side :-)
Swiss here. Last Time I checked (April), they still carried them.
It's a security thing, obviously. You're not allowed to bring your personal tool knife that you carry with you all day. You're only allowed to buy the same model in the duty-free section airside, because terrorists may be less likely to spend that much money on the exact same weapon that they had to put in checked baggage half an hour earlier, or something? I'm not sure where I'm going with this. But there's probably a good reason for it.
Having purchased a Swiss Army knife from the store in Duty Free in Zurich Airport around a decade ago, at that time it was treated ike you buying bottles of alcohol, you hand over your boarding pass and flight number and your purchase is handed to you as you leave the plane at your destination.
Back in the 90s, I always used to fly to my gf's place in Hokkaido via Chitose Airport with a bag of Laserdisks of cheesy 80s films for a popcorn weekend.
I always wondered why I didn't have to check them in and they weren't ever inspected.. Those thick, heavy disks turn into a pair of 12 inch scimitars when you snap one in half and the raedge can cut clean through leather.
I know because I tried to dispose of one by snapping it to throw out with the rubbish and nearly lost a finger! Those things could do far more damage than a pair of scissors.
"Those things could do far more damage than a pair of scissors."
Me and the wife went to the Tate to see a Van Gogh exhibit a few years back. At the security check during the bag inspection, the lady behind the table asked me if there was anything that could be considered a weapon in my backpack. I replied, "My bookmark?". The look of confusion on her face was a delight as I produced my brushed metal bookmark that I purchased from Waterstones about 15 years before.
In fairness, you could do some damage with it if you were so inclined.
About 20 years ago we were flying to Portugal for a family holiday and had let our sons pack their cartry on rucksacks with toys etc they wanted to bring with them. At security my 8 year olds bag caused interest and when opened contained his collection of toy fighter jets causing a discussion by the security people on whether these metal objects with sharp pointy noses could be construed as weapons ... fortunately they eventually decided they weren't and he got to keep them!
"Obligatory xkcd"
One of the last times I traveled by air I had some sunscreen in my carryon. There was just a bit left in the bottom of a clear bottle and it was no problem going to my destination, but coming back they treated me like a mad bomber and there was even less left in it. There was greater concern about the size of the bottle more than the contents. If I had needed a larger bottle for some nefarious purpose, I could buy a large water on the other side of the barrier and used the contents of a smaller bottle of something I had to concoct a bad thing. No idea what. My degrees are in mech and Elec, not chem.
>Back in the 90s... ...I always wondered why I didn't have to check them in and they weren't ever inspected
There's your answer. You could carry knives on board flights prior to 2001. Worst case, you'd be asked to surrender them to a flight attendant and receive them back upon landing.
Heathrow security in the 90's: "As long as it is Swiss Army it is ok". Times have changed.
OTOH, La Guardia in the 80's: they took a Swiss army knife from me (got it back when we landed!), but missed the 6" bowie knife in my carry on luggage (I was young and had only a small carry on duffel bag).
OTTH: do not ask someone with a chemistry degree what they could arrange...
Cross-chanel car ferry, Portsmouth: If I arrive on a bicycle with toolkit, I'm waved onboard with cars and caravans, easy. If I travel as a foot passenger, I have go through a metal detector and have my Victorinox confiscated "Oh, but £25 we offer a service where we post it to your home address".
Once on board the ferry, the knives in the cafeteria are a pastiche of Laguoile knives, i.e a pointed 6" blade. I daresay the caravans that are just waved onboard have knives and possibly hatchets in them.
Once in France, half the newsagents sell Opinel knives, technically prohibited in the UK because of the locking collar mechanism.
Legal to own and use with a valid reason, not legal to carry in public as 'every day carry', i believe this is the confusion. My opinel lives on my workbench, found it in a roofspace on a job and spent many happy hours bringing it back to its original glory, wonderful bit of kit
My mini legal length in UK victorinox non locking keychain knife is my EDC, at work i usually carry a knipex VDE 1000v rated cable demolition knife, tiny 3/4 inch blade but lethally sharp, capable of filleting a finger as I found out last tuesday, still wearing a micropore bandage (not the same one) LOL
Beautiful tools. I would wager the original owner still remembers losing it. I keep one in my office toolset, but it is primarily for cutting up the large and messy loaded hotdogs from a favoured local eatery, as they have fine food but crap cutlery, and work shirts are Not To Be Stained. (Under the tie is not acceptable.)
Went on my honeymoon to London back in '03. Wife and I picnicked in Hyde Park a couple of times. Got a few odd looks while doing a bit of woodcarving in the park. Only found out later that the knives I was carrying were probably illegal. Being an Eagle Scout from the US, it never occurred to me that possession of a knife in public (not government buildings, schools, etc.) would be illegal!
For £25, I offer a service where I give you a solid boot to the head.
Calling it a service doesn't make it a service.
I don't want my Victorinox posted home; I want it here with me, where it is potentially useful.
By the non-logic of the Security Theatre Players, they should be confiscating our shoelaces, as those could be used as garrotes. Likewise, womens' hairpins. And likewise, my battery-powered flashlight, whose batteries combined with some steel wool make an excellent fire-starter (I learned that one in Boy Scouts).
If the blade is smaller than a credit card its allowed on board by many airports.
Though not by all.
In which case they write down your passport details and flight details and confiscate the knife.
Sometimes the flight back has different airport security, which is how i 2ce had to hand them in.
I now gave up traveling with those victorinox items.
Back in 1996, we flew from Edinburgh to London Heathrow for a BUNAC conference on a Saturday morning with plans for the Saturday evening festivities to include a disco/cèilidh.
One of my colleagues brought with him his full scottish regalia including his kilt and the small knife known as a Skean Dhu within his carry-on luggage.
No problem getting through Edinburgh airport security and after a great weekend of eating, singing, drinking and dancing, we made it back to Heathrow on the Sunday afternoon.
On going through security, alarms were set off and my colleague was taken away by security, not to be seen until we were boarded.
The little knife caused a fair bit of trouble and was handed to the pilot for safekeeping and returned when we landed at Edinburgh.
What a weekend !
I was once in Heathrow airport going through security with some friends.
One of whom was American.
We got to the amnesty bins where you can dispose of bottles of water or whatever else you may have inadvertently brought with you.
Said friend dug into her handbag to check if she had anything, pulled out a CS gas canister and says "They'll allow this through, right?"
It had to be explained to her that a) no they wouldn't, b) it's literally illegal in the UK to be walking around with that even outside an airport and c) please go and discreetly drop it in the bin before anyone notices.
The best part... this was her return flight out of London and she'd already brought that same item in with her when she arrived, in the same manner. Unchecked.
And, yes, this was post-9/11 security.
My late wife was refused entry to the uk (we were between houses, she was american, UK immigration thought 'she may not leave).... (this explains my hatred of uk immigration officers to this day). This was prior to 9/11... security confiscated her fecking crochet hooks. Me, intensely upset: "what the fuck do you think she's gonna do, crochet a fucking afghan?'
"The little knife caused a fair bit of trouble and was handed to the pilot for safekeeping and returned when we landed at Edinburgh."
Because it was a cultural item, I'm surprised there was such a fuss as there's often bizarre exceptions for things like that. It's like a workplace requirement for hard hats even when there's little point but if you are of a certain religion and are commanded to wear a particular hat/headdress, you wind up being exempt. I supposed people of those faiths are statistically less likely to have things fall on their head or something like that. I see that sort of thing as a reason why many of those H&S regulations are useless. If you can't wear the PPE, you shouldn't be hired for the job. If the PPE isn't really necessary, nobody should have to wear it.
You aren't going to stab anyone with a swiss army knife, the blades just fold in and chop your own fingers off.
Sure, you could rig something up to reinforce it, maybe even on a plane, but you're not going to be able to do that very discretely and it would be easier to just use any other solid flat material to form a blade that doesn't slice your fingers off.
Even the corkscrew just folds - anyone who's ever tried to use one will know.
Every boy scout will tell you that they have a scar on their index finger from learning this, where the blade folds into your holding fingers rather than actually does what you intend if you stroke it the wrong way with any pressure at all.
I've long since accepted that airport security is basically a kind of post-modern performance art. It's not doing anything, except for eliciting feelings (of safety, of outrage, or more, depending on the work and the viewer).
Much like some contemporary paintings that are basically two red squares of whatever, it's not really meant to be readily understood by non-specialists, and if you ask the artist to explain it, he'll just get mad.
The metal detector in the Bozeman, MT airport works. I have TSA Precheck and I had to take my belt off to get through it. Same belt was no problem at the airport I used to fly to Bozeman. I just got the belt so I don't know if this will be a continuing problem.
Part of the reason TSA Precheck is worth the cost to me is the shorter lines, and you can leave your shoes and belt on. Well, 2 out of 3 now.
I think the rule banning knives on airplanes was ridiculous when it was introduced, and it is ridiculous now. First, because it is very easy to find different weapons as deadly as a knife, second because a knife would not be enough anymore to gain access to the cockpit. It's even worse than the rules on liquids.
It may not get you in the cockpit but if the pilot gets a panicked call from a flight attendant saying that the terrorist is threatening to cut their throat and could then stab a lot more passengers on the plane, what would the pilot do?
Even if they don't hijack an airliner to crash it into something valuable then a mass stabbing incident in the air would still be a major win for the terrorists and would look awful from a security standpoint etc.
The server meals in first and business class with METAL knives. Obviously a terrorists only ever fly cattle class. Also as pointed out lots of plastic items could be used as a very effective knife, not to mention things like mirrors allowed in carry on can make really REALLY good blades with very little work.
Its theatre and bloody stupid.
On most large airliners there's only a fire axe in the cockpit, not in the main cabin, and I'd be surprised if cabin crew ever had access to them, even on smaller regional airliners. If you've already got access to the cockpit then all bets are off.
The only person who would ever wield a fire axe in anger would be the Captain, or possibly the First Officer on the Captain's instruction.
You don't start randomly smashing an axe into the cabin walls unless you're pretty certain you've got a fire spreading between the inner wall and the fuselage wall, and even then, you'd be pretty careful where you smashed so as not to cut through anything important that would make an already bad situation worse...
"... there was a fire axe in the cabin crew equipment."
One of my pilot friends got grief in the US because she had some small scissors in her hand luggage. She did point out that in another few minutes, when she got into the cockpit, she would have access to an axe - but no, that argument was not accepted.
Have you ever tried to cut someone's skin with an ordinary steel table knife? And trust me, the ones used on planes - even in first class - are very, very ordinary.
Yes, there are a bunch of ways to improvise a sharp edge. And yet, knives are still a thing. You know why? - because they're much, much better.
It may not get you in the cockpit but if the pilot gets a panicked call from a flight attendant saying that the terrorist is threatening to cut their throat and could then stab a lot more passengers on the plane, what would the pilot do?
Stay locked in the cockpit, no matter what.
Even if they don't hijack an airliner to crash it into something valuable then a mass stabbing incident in the air would still be a major win for the terrorists and would look awful from a security standpoint etc.
It is up to the air marshals to deal with any trouble in the cabin.
collinsl,
A mass stabbing incident is little worse than one in a train or anywhere else. Worse, because the passengers are further from medical attention - not because it's on a plane.
The September 11th hijackings worked, because the training at the time was to let the hijackers get on with it and make their point, then talk them to death with professional negotiators afterwards and free the hostages. Using the plane as a suicide weapon was a new thing. Even on that day - once the passengers of one plane realised what was going on, they launched an attack on the hijackers and stopped the plane being used as a weapon - even if they were too late to save it.
If you try to hijack a plane now, people are likely to assume that they're as good as dead anyway - and so it's better to die dealing with you and saving the rest of the passengers as to let you get on with it. So you need a better weapon than a knife. And certainly more than the Stanley knife / box-cutters of September 11th or a pair of craft scissors from an airport shop. The plane is as full of stuff that can be improvised into more deadly weapons than those, such as drink cans, glasses, glass wine bottles.
I lost my nail clippers at Stanstead airport security once, I was using a spare washbag which I'd forgotten came with a little zip compartment with a shoehorn (huh?) nail clippers, comb and small hand/stand mirror. The mirror was 4" across and made of glass. I was allowed to keep that. They took the nail clippers with which I could seriously have damaged the stewardesses' manicures...
I wonder if anyone remembers John Brunner's *muckers* in Stand on Zanzibar. First thing the protagonist did was to look around for something to use as a weapon.
9/11 definitely broke the jet hijacking model: terrs would get lynched as soon as they waved anything around, poor things.
It may not get you in the cockpit but if the pilot gets a panicked call from a flight attendant saying that the terrorist is threatening to cut their throat and could then stab a lot more passengers on the plane, what would the pilot do?
Make sure nobody can get into the cockpit. Set the transponder to squawk 7500 - hijack. Divert to the nearest airport. Leave the cabin crew and passengers to slug it out with the terrorist(s). Of course all bets are off if Steven Seagall or MacGyver is on board.
"Even if they don't hijack an airliner to crash it into something valuable then a mass stabbing incident in the air would still be a major win for the terrorists and would look awful from a security standpoint etc."
The terrorists (or glorious freedom fighters, depending on your POV and who wrote the particular history book) have already won - that happened as soon as the security theatre was introduced - with most of the Western world running shit-scared on a 24x7 basis they have no need for further "wins", their job is done.
I can't imagine the same thing happening in Ireland or even the US having seen how out airport security works. Not that they are lazy at all. But far more laid back about such things. While sure it would be taken off a passenger I just can't imagine stores being that up tight here to the point it stop the airport.
Maybe there would be a search and the security would be on lookout, but it would probably be kept quiet for the sake of not causing a panic or slowing down then airport in general.
At this stage there has been plenty of time since these rules were brought in for anyone that wants to cause trouble to have come up with a new idea other than a bottle of water and a scicors. Like plenty of plastic "harmless" items that could readily be used to do a lot of damage. Lots of technically legal items too are let throigh the gates. I'm pretty sure I have gotten actual glass behind the security gates from one of the shops or restaurants.
And all of this is assuming that will actually search the bags. I went to Malta with a PC (a nuc and all cables) in a not legit security deposits box surrounded by travel monitor, DJ equipment and all sorts. Nothing not allowed, but all could be dangerous and just shows up as a black mental box and cables on the X-ray. I was asked what it was and just said a PC and DJ Equipment as I started to open the top of the bag and was waved off as "no its okay" and moved on.
So... Yeah Japan is at least being serious about it. But I could not see this happening in Europe.
I remember a report of an incident at San Francisco airport where someone had run through a security check and "disappeared" which resulted in the terminal being evacuated and everyone stuck outside for a couple of hours while a thorough security sweep was performed.
Went from Southern California to Yellowstone in 2002. I took my spotting scope to assist in looking at wildlife, wondering what security would say about an x-ray opaque metal cylindar about 3 inches in diameter, 10 inches long (or thereabouts). Answer: at Lax, absolutely nothing. At West Yellowstone airport on return trip, “Open this up, and show me what's inside.“ Fortunately, just optical glass and air. I thanked her for being thorough.
Heading out of Heathrow in '03, I set off the metal detector. I pulled the mobile out of my pocket, got ready to step back through the metal detector, and the guards just waved me on through without the recheck.
My folks once got stopped after an x-ray of their bag spotted several large, oddly-shaped, x-ray-opaque objects. The person who searched the bag was quite confused about how clear glass vases were opaque to x-rays, and was going to confiscate them, when the supervisor intervened - "I know what those are, and I wish I had one!" (They were high-quality lead crystal.)
... being a 'mixed infant' in primary school (4 years up to about 6 or 7, then you become a 'junior'). After a craft lesson involving cutting up paper with scissors, the teacher would invariably say that no one was allowed to go home until the final pair of scissors had been found and returned. I remember her saying that she didn't mind staying until 9 O'Clock*.
We always find the scissors eventually.
Oh, such innocent days. Are primary school children allowed sharp implements these days?
*She lied, teachers are keener for the end of the school day than their pupils.
Professor Dolores* Jane Umbridge put it perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ogOZjZmAY
* "Lolita, light of my life, fire of my loins, my sin, my soul. Lo-li-ta, a trip of the tongue across the palate to end tapping at three on the teeth.
She was 'Lo', plain 'Lo' in the morning standing five foot nothing in one sock, she was Dolores on the dotted line, but in my arms she was always Lolita"
Cannot help feeling that J K was having a bit of fun with the Prof giving her the same first name as the under-age inamorata of Nabokov's most (in)famous novel. (I probably haven't got the poetic start to the novel quite perfect, but none of the rest of it is anything like as eloquent, and frankly I'm not sure why I bothered to finish reading it.)
When I was about 8, I can remember drawing, then cutting out letters from a card, stencil style, then cutting the card and folding it into a box. We were given safety razor blades that we slipped into a holder that covered one edge. I don't remember any blood, but I do remember proudly taking a cardboard box home that had the word "EXIT" on the front.
No, but I do recall stabbing myself in the left thumb down to the bone with a Victorinox 'Swiss Army' penknife*. Strangely it did not hurt or bleed at all, I just put a plaster around the wound for a few days and it healed pretty well (no scar).
*Safety rule : Always hold the item you are cutting away from you and pull the blade towards your 'off hand', or something like that**. Anyway I still have most of my fingers, thumbs and toes.
** Never take practical advice from a theoretician or let them decide on implementation. I once went sailing in Baltimore Inner Harbour with some chaps from the Naval Research Laboratory***. Nice chaps, but I'm glad I insisted that we took the 'most forgiving' of the two boats offered otherwise we could have capsized a couple of times and needed rescuing.
*** The important word here is Research NOT "Naval".
The image of the pair of scissors heading this article look like the Rolls-Royce of scissors that wouldn't look out of place in the hands of Atropos but keeping them out of her hands was what this kerfuffle was mostly about I guess.
I was curious about the jpeg's name viz Leonardo AI Winged Scissors. I didn't know that a common fallacy had da Vinci inventing scissors so I am guessing this graphic is an AI generated confection from Leonardo.AI(?) gobbling up this fallacy.
Scissors – by Allan Ahlberg
Nobody leave the room.
Everyone listen to me.
We had ten-pair of scissors
At half-past two,
And now there’s only three.
Seven pair of scissors,
Disappeared from sight.
Not one of you leaves
Till we find them.
We can stop here all night!
Scissors don’t lose themselves,
Melt away, or explode.
Scissors have not got
Legs of their own
To go running off up the road.
We really need those scissors,
That’s what makes me mad.
If it was seven pairs
Of children we’d lost,
It wouldn’t be so bad.
I don’t want to hear excuses.
Don’t anyone speak.
Just ransack this room
Till we find them,
Or we’ll stop here… all week
I met a large (ok, for an American 'medium sized'*) USAfolk teacher on a holiday. He was a nice guy. He told a story of when he'd been hauled into the Principal's office after there was a complaint by the mother of child that he'd tried to strangle her 'little angel' with his hoodie top. The teacher asked if this was the incident where he had grabbed the child's hoodie to pull him away from a power socket into which the aforementioned 'little angel' had been trying to insert a pair of scissors, thereby possibly saving the aforementioned's life/health? It was. Case closed.
*USAfolk just seem to be bigger than us Europeans, must be something in the water ...
> they could not supply them for security reasons
That's 'cos you can't argue with the need for security, or elfin safety, hence them being the favoured excuses of the " I can't be arsed admitting to the real reason".
Example: When Liz Truss recently needed an excuse to storm off stage, it was because of "security"...... though we all know even somebody as stupid as Liz Truss didn't honestly think she was going to be attacked by a poster of a fucking lettuce!
I have a bijou Victorinox pen knife on my key ring which has a small 2cm blade, an LED light, a small file/screwdriver and the smallest scissors. I flew to Spain recently (from Stanstead) and panicked very slightly that they’d nick it off me. I bunched it up with the keys and thankfully it wasn’t noticed in either direction, possibly because it didn’t have the tool to remove stones from horses hooves.
What a damned absurd regulation. Typical for the government though. Airlines can't survive without passengers to fly, but the passengers are the first to get screwed over and have zero rights to do anything about it. They should be able to sue the airport, the security teams and the government over this type of incompetence.
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