back to article Would you rather buy space broadband from a billionaire, or Communist China?

The first batch of satellites in China's answer to Starlink – known as the Qianfan Constellation, sometimes also called G60 – was launched into orbit on Tuesday. State-owned China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, whose subsidiary China Great Wall Industry Corporation (CGWIC) was the launch general contractor, …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    15,000 satellites into low Earth orbit

    I'm starting to think that sales of amateur telescopes are going to dwindle in the next decade . . .

    1. trindflo Silver badge

      Re: 15,000 satellites into low Earth orbit

      Would the loss in sales of amateur telescopes be replaced by sales of space-debris proof bunkers?

  2. Khaptain Silver badge

    24‰ dont have an internet connection

    One has to ask the question if they are not the lucky ones.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 24‰ dont have an internet connection

      Considering how difficult it is to do day-to-day basic life in China without Wechatpay or Alipay, I find this number hard to believe.

  3. DS999 Silver badge

    This seems unnecessary in China

    The government has enough control they can site cell towers wherever makes sense, rather than wherever local laws and NIMBYs allow. In areas of lower population density just make a taller one or put it on a big hill to increase the LOS and use 600 MHz spectrum for long distances.

    I suppose if they want to cover the globe this is needed, but I wonder how it could be viable commercially given the Venn diagram between "people in China who don't currently have internet access" and "people in China who can afford to pay for internet access" is probably a fairly small sliver.

    1. Aitor 1

      Re: This seems unnecessary in China

      With satellites all over, drones are incredibly useful both in military and civilian usages. Not to speak about other realtime comms for military.

      I think that China had a look at Ukraine and wants Starlink, so they are trying to build it.

    2. jockmcthingiemibobb

      Re: This seems unnecessary in China

      Backpacking to cell towers through mountainous terrain is challenging to say the least. Aside from line of sight issues for microwave links, the distances involved can require relay sites. Then there's the issue of power. Solar is possible but they're not without maintenanc, involve massive arrays and the higher sites are often above the snowline. 600MHz is also quite low bandwidth and isn't a magic bullet for getting into valleys and dense forests.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This seems unnecessary in China

      The central government isn't as omnipotent as many Westerners believe, or as it would itself like to be. NIMBY can be a thing there just as much as anywhere else, and local governments can be quite powerful in their own right.

      I remember a few years back, crossing from Yunnan to Sichuan, there was a stretch of the traffic jammed highway completely unpaved, just random rocks. The explanation was simply that the local governments on each side rejected the responsibility for it on one another.

  4. bud-weis-er

    From a Billionaire nutcase who wants to impose economic servitude on you, or Communist China.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sucks to be a "customer" these days.

    2. StudeJeff Bronze badge

      ... which just wants to make you a slave.

  5. trindflo Silver badge

    Which is worse

    I'd be more concerned China would abuse its position in a thoughtful and methodical manner, but that still doesn't say which is worse.

  6. Steve Button Silver badge

    Would you rather buy space broadband from a billionaire, or Communist China?

    From a billionaire.

    That was easy. Next question?

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Would you rather buy space broadband from a billionaire, or Communist China?

      You need three. One from the US to protect your comms from China. One from China to protect you from the US. And one from Finland to protect your from Sweden.

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
        Devil

        Re: Would you rather buy space broadband from a billionaire, or Communist China?

        But who will protect me from those dastardly Finns?

        Untrustworthy folk - and liable to steal all my booze at the slightest opportunity.

    2. Richard Tobin

      Re: Would you rather buy space broadband from a billionaire, or Communist China?

      Well obviously it depends on *which* billionaire.

  7. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

    If that's my choicee

    If I have to choose between Musk or China I'm gonna go back to dialup

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If that's my choicee

      Starlink is promising, giving roaming broadband in the more way out places (deep wilderness, at sea, etc)-. However, the operation is starting to have a distinctly and concerning musky odor. OTOH, China?

  8. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Question the premise

    > space broadband

    With all the world that I am ever going to find myself in, having high-speed fibre and / or high speed 5G - hell, even 4G is good enough - then I don't feel the need to spray my packets all over low earth orbit, too.

    To me, this is not now a solution to anything. Although I did work for a company that provided ground stations for remote (think: Welsh Water locations) sites. But that was in the1980s. The need has all but disappeared now.

    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Question the premise

      Look, whilst you or I, or pretty much anyone living in the UK or the EU does not particularly need this, there are plenty of locations around the world that you will never get a terrestrial connection. Either because the distances are too long to economically stretch Cable or Fibre (think middle of the Australian Desert. Remote islands. Hell some of the Outer Hebrides Islands), and/or where the terrain is not going to allow the use of towers to accommodate everyone's needs (think highly mountainous terrain with deep valleys, places where generating power for the towers themselves is not easy/possible, etc.).

      There is a use case for these satellite comm systems. Is there enough of a use case to support 5 or 6 different constellations? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Starlink has (at the moment) the advantage because it's effectively the first operating constellation and so has the satellites already up there. We'll see if it can maintain that advantage (Musk doesnt have a great history in taking advantage of his first player bonus). Everyone else is playing catch up. Whether anyone can make it profitable, is another question entirely (and the smart money would say No...)

      1. eldel

        Re: Question the premise

        I take your point - but I suspect the Chinese Government calculates 'profit' in a rather different way.

        1. Ideasource

          Re: Question the premise

          I suspect the chinese are not chasing profit.

          I suspect they're wisely sacrificing profit to enable greater Usable physical results.

          Money is merely stored potential to Influence other humans until successfully applied to gain a useful physical situation.

          Until exchanged it's just numbers on a leaderboard that might be exchanged for something directly usable.

          I suspect they're skipping the middle man, and cutting out the drain that is profit to obtain results more directly.

          After all , in fair exchange that accounts for everyone affected involved there is no profit.

          Profit is not earned, Otherwise it would be a wage. Profit is won.

          1. Khaptain Silver badge

            Re: Question the premise

            "I suspect they're wisely sacrificing profit to enable greater Usable physical results."

            And just how does anyone really know what they are putting up there.. It's not like a Govt officer is going to make a check that it is really just an Internet relay of some kind of another.

            We have absolutely no idea how many Laser Fitted Sharks might actually be waiting inside each of these modules.

  9. Brock55

    Communist?

    ROTFL..

  10. Spanners
    Big Brother

    Will they allow VPNs?

    I expect China to do do some DNS fiddling and traffic control, in the same way I expect Musk to. Both are hugely intolerant of ideas they disagree with. It will be easy enough to note where the traffic comes from so everyone can limit locations etc just like he does but I would always want what I am doing - ie criticise fascists - to be hidden from them.

    Actually I do so little political stuff that they probably wouldn't care but I would want the ability to use a VPN of my choice as a basic.

    1. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: Will they allow VPNs?

      Does starlink ban VPNs?

      1. StudeJeff Bronze badge

        Re: Will they allow VPNs?

        No, you can use a VPN with Starlink.

      2. blert

        Re: Will they allow VPNs?

        No

    2. Splod

      Re: Will they allow VPNs?

      "Actually I do so little political stuff that they probably wouldn't care"

      Then you should. Leaving politics to power hungry nacisists (government) is not a good idea. It only goes one way but slowly so you don't noitce. Like the boiling a frog epithet - we are the frogs!

  11. Winkypop Silver badge
    Stop

    How about

    Neither?

    1. Locomotion69 Bronze badge

      Re: How about

      Both ?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How about

      Then who?

      You think the government will provide more freedom of speech? That's being shutdown pretty quick now.

      Right now Musk has the upper hand on free speech.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: How about

        Musk's "upper hand" is looking pretty bloody ugly at the moment and I suspect that the eventual backlash will be harsh

  12. Bill Neal
    FAIL

    RedStarLink

    It was right there and they missed the opportunity!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Happy to give China useless data...

    If they are looking for dissidents or whatever, my surfing random non-China related stuff is just going to be noise, and I'm all for decreasing their signal to noise ratio, right?

  14. StudeJeff Bronze badge

    Western Billionaire vs the Chicoms...

    If the billionaire is Musk I'd have no problem making the choice. He's pretty much not going to care (or be involved) in what anyone is sending over his satellites.

    The Chicoms are another matter, start sending stuff over their satellites about freeing Tibet, the persecution of the Uyghurs, or their use of slave labor and you'll likely get shut down pretty fast... and if you are in a place they control YOU are likely to get shut down more permanently. Communist dictatorships aren't fond of criticism... just as the survivors of Tiananmen Square, if you can find any. (Oh, and don't talk about that either).

  15. Jan 0 Silver badge

    How long before the inevitable collisions make low Earth orbit useless?

    1. Mark Exclamation

      Not sure it's going to need collisions. Once we get every man and his dog's satellite service up there (>200,000 LEO satellites), good luck getting a rocket through there.

  16. pavlecom
    IT Angle

    .. easy

    I choose Chinese coz they will be better, faster, cheaper & more secure by my opinion. Moreover, they are ofc anti-nazi, anti-fascist & anti-endless-war hi-tech oriented.

    The main point is, their future low orbit net is 6G based, IoE, internet of everything, a space-air-sea-land network. They already have a 6x test 6G satellites in the Orbit for the past 3 years (1st launched in 2019). Obviously requirement is only a sat-chip inside the phone (like Mate 60 Pro), with no sat-dish at all, more suitable for daily use.

    Curiosity: Mount Everest have a 5G same as China Space Station 5G++ (1,6Gbs). Beijing have a 5G-A from this year (4,6Gbs), a start point for IoV, internet of vehicles.

    1. Mark Exclamation

      Re: .. easy

      "I choose Chinese coz they will be better, faster, cheaper & more secure by my opinion. Moreover, they are ofc anti-nazi, anti-fascist & anti-endless-war hi-tech oriented."

      So they say. If you believe ANYTHING the Chinese government says, then you are really naive.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: .. easy

      "anti-nazi, anti-fascist"?? I think you'll find communism provides the same outcome; loss of freedom, state over people.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: .. easy

      The problem is that China is not really communist.

      They're a fascist dictatorship, complete with concentration camps. Income inequality is worse than the US. Healthcare isn't free, nor is education. Racism is rampant, minorities are repressed. They've announced their intention to take Taiwan by force in the future (they know they aren't strong enough to do it now, that's why that war hasn't happened yet). They are currently actively harassing the Philippines with warships. They periodically attack India over territory they are trying to claim. And they are attempting to economically colonize parts of Africa.

      At some point they're going to attack Taiwan. Everything you buy from them is bringing that day closer. And you can rest assured that American and British lives will be lost defending Taiwan from the mainland Chinese fascists.

      The other problem is Elon is also a fascist.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hard to know which is the safer. Billionaires vs China ... not much in it ;)

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      "Hard to know which is the safer. Billionaires vs China ... not much in it ;)"

      Try being governed by the CCP and you will understand very, very quickly that there is a massive difference.

      1. Nasu

        Yeah. The Chinese government will let you buy an IPhone

        But the US government won't let you buy a Huawei phone

        That's the difference

        Freedom to spend your money buying what You want instead of what the government wants you to buy

  18. steviebuk Silver badge

    Can the world now stop

    classing China as a 3rd world country. They get benefits for being classed as such and abuse it as they clearly fucking aren't.

    And yeah, if anyone buys their ISP package then they are fools as the CCP WILL be doing DPI on all the traffic.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Can the world now stop

      They're a 2nd world country. Those are mostly the former Soviet Union, former Warsaw Pact, and China.

      China is a poor country with a few very rich people. They claim they've eliminated poverty, they redefined poverty as making less than about $400/month.

  19. fishman

    Billionaires vs China vs ....

    Don't forget that a third choice for many of us are megacorporation ISPs like Verizon or Comcast.

    A pox on all of their houses.

  20. Nasu

    June 24, 2024

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    Local farmer Barry Sawchuk discovered the charred, 88-pound chunk of composite fibers while weeding his fields

    April 28, 2024

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    April.21, 2024

    A pallet of used batteries tossed from the International Space Station (ISS) crashed through a Florida home, NASA says

    Three years ago astronauts threw out the largest piece of trash ever tossed from the International Space Station.

    March 8, 2024

    Germany is on the lookout for debris coming off the International Space Station (ISS) on Friday after reports that some of it could land in the western state of Rhineland-Palatinate

    The waste, which reportedly weighs as much as an SUV, is expected to enter the Earth's atmosphere on Friday.

    Feb 21, 2024

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    Jan 17, 2024

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    Little or no remains of Peregrine were expected to survive intact to the ocean surface. And even if they did, they should have impacted far away from any population.

    July 28, 2023

    British-built spacecraft is expected to fall to Earth later on Friday, after completing a transformative mission to map the planet's winds

    July 19, 2023

    An image of a massive copper-coloured cylinder, purportedly washed up on an Australian beach, has gone viral with the claim that it is a piece from India’s Chandrayaan-3 mission

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