back to article Kaspersky challenges US government to put up or shut up about Kremlin ties

Kaspersky has hit back after the US government banned its products – by proposing an independent verification that its software is above board and not backdoored by the Kremlin. The embattled Russian antivirus maker pledged to comply with the US Department of Commerce's blockade against its products, but also maintained that …

  1. ITMA Silver badge
    Devil

    Never mind the alleged Kremlin links - we dumped Kaspersky years ago because it became very buggy bloatware.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      More to the point, their challenge is a red herring. The Harold Martin case showed that the Russians got hold of the NSA tools after they were sent to Kaspersky by their AV software.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You mean Nghia Hoang Pho. Martin was later and different.

  2. amajadedcynicaloldfart Bronze badge

    Who

    @ITMA

    Is "we"?

    1. Sandtitz Silver badge

      Re: Who @amajadedcynicaloldfart

      Why do you need to know?

      Who is amajadedcynicaloldfart? For what organisation do you work for?

      1. amajadedcynicaloldfart Bronze badge

        Re: Who @amajadedcynicaloldfart

        I don't work for anyone. My business, "The Ghost Deejay".

        1. ITMA Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Who @amajadedcynicaloldfart

          With such poorly posed questions as that, I'm not surprsed you don't work for anyone LOL.

          What was that question even supposed to mean?

    2. Alien Doctor 1.1

      Re: Who

      What an odd question, it's either the commentard and family, or whatever business he works for. Stop trying to read agendas into innocent comments.

      If I wanted to, I could easily suggest that the unfornately useless attempt to humanely put down an orange toned animal was staged by the repugnant party to boost his/its success in the forthcoming "will the world still be here in 5 years" election.

      I rue the miss, especially that others are now sporting bandages on their right ears.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Who

        "I rue the miss"

        So you are advocating political violence?

        1. Alien Doctor 1.1

          Re: Who

          The Orange Dump is no politician, he's a ridiculous reality tv so-called star. He is obnoxious and too much of a moron to help western democracy survive.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Who

            > The Orange Dump is no politician, he's a ridiculous reality tv so-called star. He is obnoxious and too much of a moron to help western democracy survive.

            And he won't start any foreign wars :(

            1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

              Maybe not, but he's certainly capable of starting one at home.

            2. Casca Silver badge

              Re: Who

              Yea, he will let others do that while he kiss ass to the nearest dictator.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Who

          > So you are advocating political violence?

          Well given the orange one’s well reported advocacy of political violence… it is fitting he is a target for political violence…

      2. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Who

        "I rue the miss"

        I don't, because advocating killing arseholes is a shitty strategy when everybody is an arsehole to somebody in this ridiculously partisan world.

        I like to delude myself to thinking that one day the orange one will view the world from between vertical bars, but given as how the Supremes aren't even bothering to hide their corruption any more (and seem to be breaking America for the lulz, or have I missed something subtle?), I don't expect justice will ever be served. Instead, they've all but anointed the new king.

        Plus, the problem runs far deeper than one man. He has an army of enablers and sycophants. Wasting Trump won't fix that, it'll just make room for some other megalomaniac creep to step up.

        "especially that others are now sporting bandages on their right ears."

        Yeah... that is... bizarre. I'm rather lost for words.

        1. Bebu
          Facepalm

          Re: Who

          《"especially that others are now sporting bandages on their right ears."

          Yeah... that is... bizarre. I'm rather lost for words.》

          Ditto.

          Was sitting in a hospital waiting room in AU with the Trump convention on the TV screen. The whole shemozzle seems completely demented.

          The drongos with bandaged ears clearly a few sheep short...

          Really a case of me too but I doubt there is enough of the 'I' for there to be any 'me.'

          When the southern border was mentioned I had to wonder that with each crossing whether the average IQ of the US was being measurably increased. Can a whole nation go full retard?

        2. jospanner Silver badge

          Re: Who

          Easy to say when you’re not the target of political violence courtesy of trump’s policies

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Above board and not backdoored software

    > Kaspersky has hit back after the US government banned its products – by proposing an independent verification that its software is above board and not backdoored by the Kremlin.

    They can't do that as US AV software would be subject to similar scrutiny.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Above board and not backdoored software

      Why ? Who said so ?

      Kaspersky is proposing an independant verification of his software, not of all AV software.

      Personally, I'm all for it.

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Above board and not backdoored software

        Fair's fair.

        Example Kaspersky in fine detail.

        Then examine its main contemporary.

        After all, don't "they" always try to tell you if you have nothing to hide.....

        1. Necrohamster Silver badge

          Re: Above board and not backdoored software

          Here's the thing: nobody owes Kaspersky a right of reply, or an independent analysis of their software,

          Anyway, remember VW DieselGate? The dodgy software only did dodgy things when specific conditions were met.

          How could you be 100% certain that Kaspersky software doesn't do something similar?

          1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

            Re: Above board and not backdoored software

            I'm not that concerned about what it does. I am quite concerned about what it might be compelled to do. Those are two very different things, either one of which are sufficient cause for the ban.

            Which is sad. So far as I can tell, K is a decent actor. But they are based in a country I just can't trust at all.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Above board and not backdoored software

      The unanswered question is whether Kaspersky Lab UK Ltd; the owner of Kaspersky North America and effectively the owner of the Global Transparency Initiative, is being fully demerged from AO Kaspersky Lab, with the right to develop and sell the Kaspersky product and run the GTI centre in Switzerland…

    3. Bartholomew
      Big Brother

      Re: Above board and not backdoored software

      The real problem is that all the US owned ones green light all US backdoor code by FISA court orders with gagging, where as Kaspersky red lights the same. And if you think about it that is the real reason, the potential Russian backdoor is the excuse, but the end game is to take Kaspersky off the table for every country around the world. The US is a big consumer market and want to remove funding, if the funding drops low enough the hope would be that a US company can buy the codebase (Forced via a FISA court order with gagging) and "update" it to US standards.

      1. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: Above board and not backdoored software

        Not everything is a conspiracy by the FISA courts on behalf of the lizard people or George Soros

        1. Bartholomew
          Meh

          Re: Above board and not backdoored software

          > Not everything is a conspiracy

          I 100% agree, but Fourteen Eyes does exist ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes ), so does Lawful interception ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception ) which can be and has been misused and the Snowden leaks has shown most people a lot more than they thought was happening in their name.

          If conspiracies were my bag, I would have surely posted as a tin foil hat wearing Anonymous Coward, and not use an account where you can read all my previous posts - I would be so paranoid.

          I'm more into actual facts rather than fiction like:

          The NSA using apparatus in Denmark to spy on European politicians such as listening to Angela Merkel phone in Germany!

          Or the whole NSA Greek watergate as it was called at the time, where every leader had their calls tapped ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wiretapping_case_2004%E2%80%9305 )

          I personally do not believe in any lizard people. And as for George Soros, I actually had to look him up on wikipedia just now. I've heard the name somewhere possibly once, but knew nothing about him.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They don't need back doors....

    anyone who has used such cloud SHITE as Bitdefender and Kaspersky

    KNOW that they upload FULL PATHS and Hashes of files....

    from the full path you get the users name....

    location

    os and from the hash you get to search the users computer for any file you are looking for.

    There is so much meta data on teh user ,even without backdoors....

    simply by watching triggers , i can figure out most of the sexual interests of any user using bit-defender/Kaspersky,

    There is MORE than enough blackmail material just from a simple scan of a users computer.

    1. BPontius

      You can get full paths and determine files hashes from PowerShell or even the command prompt using a host of third-party software. All Anti-Virus Suites upload files for analysis and are capable of pilfering through the users hard drives, even Windows Defender uploads unknown files for analysis. You can get user names and even their SIDs from the command prompt, a novice script kiddie could get this information you are so sure is exclusive to Kaspersky and Bitdefender.

  5. Necrohamster Silver badge

    Put up or shut up?

    Kaspersky has hit back after the US government banned its products – by proposing an independent verification that its software is above board and not backdoored by the Kremlin.

    The embattled Russian antivirus maker pledged to comply with the US Department of Commerce's blockade against its products, but also maintained that the Feds' June decision to ban its products in America is purely political.

    Well duh, no shit Evgeny. The decision's political in the sense that the US government doesn't want its info getting back to the FSB, which is fair enough.

    Does anybody have figures for sales of Kaspersky products to .gov? The revenue's got to be tiny

  6. martinusher Silver badge

    Waste of Time

    Huawei went through the same process with the UK government. It didn't help. Once you get the politicians and bureaucrats on your case facts just don't matter any more == they're playing to an audience so reality will be adjusted to suit their position, not vice versa.

    1. Necrohamster Silver badge
    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Waste of Time

      The problem with this argument is that the US and UK intelligence services warned against Huawei during the Obama administration. Obama didn't do anything as far as I remember and the UK instituted that lab in Oxford to check Huawei's code.

      If I remember reports correctly they didn't find any sneaky backdoors but lots of security holes.

      There was also a leaked report from Dutch intelligence that Huawei had been exfiltrating subsciber data from the Dutch telecoms firm via their tech support of the gear installed on their network. Something which was specifically against their contract - not just that they'd been getting individual subscriber data - but also sending it to China, not just breaking the rules a bit to use it inside the Netherlands.

      So when Trump went all-in on his anti Huawei crusade he got quite a bit of push-back in Europe. But then the British changed course and also banned it, and Boris Johnson was promptly accused of being a Trump stooge - despite him having also been accused of being soft on China for deciding not to ban them earlier that year, when Trump first did it. The week after the UK did it, the French did so too but didn't really publicise it. Plus Dutch and (I think Danish) intel publicly warned against them - so they got banned in most of Europe. Germany said it was all nonsense, then slow-banned them a couple of years later - they have to be out of all core comms networks by 2030.

      So it's possible it's all bollocks. It's certainly not all Trump bollocks though. And it's highly likely that people in the intelligence services genuinely believe they're a risk - even if they're wrong.

      1. heyrick Silver badge

        Re: Waste of Time

        "If I remember reports correctly they didn't find any sneaky backdoors but lots of security holes."

        <looks right at Cisco>

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Waste of Time

        Not putting too fine a point on it, by existing, "everything" is a risk.

        We all know about the NSA backdoors in Western software; and there is no reason to suppose that any other supplier of any other origin does not also have interests in doing (or has) such capability.

        The elephant in the room is the ubiquity of Windows of course, whose problems are well known to even the layman. We all still use it though - often not through choice.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    True or not, elements of the revenues ARE going back to Pootin's prison for 100 million Russians. Everything, and I do mean everything that can be done to interrupt cash flow is a good thing. Why on earth it's taking this long is beyond me.

    I am reminded of the situation where Britain had aircraft on order from Italy, and funding still going there, even after the outbreak with Germany.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      I am reminded of the situation where Britain had aircraft on order from Italy, and funding still going there, even after the outbreak with Germany.

      You couldn't remind the rest of us a bit could you?

      I'd like to know about this, did a quick Google, and couldn't find anything. Both Britain and Italy had well-developed, modern aircraft industries at the time so mostly used their own. But it would be interesting to know if there was trade still going on.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Attempting to find my source here; amongst the dozens of board games and ww2 books I have lurking round. I think it was mentioned in either James Holland war in the west series or maybe one of Rowland Whites books that even after the outbreak with Germany that Britain still was paying for aircraft from Italy; in that brief period where Count Ciano was still trying to broker some sort of peace. Having acknowledged that being dragged into a war with Britain would be ruinous, Ciano did not want to cancel for fear of scuppering any potential exit.

        I don’t believe any deliveries were made, that late.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
  8. Bebu
    Windows

    Not inconceivable

    From September 1, 1939 until June 10, 1940 Fascist Italy wasn't a combatant and afterwards changed sides at half time.

    So it is conceivable that the UK did have extant orders for aircraft (seaplanes?) with Italian firms during those nearly nine months. No idea whether that was so.

    In any case I imagine it might be a fairly obscure bit of generally quite horrid history.

  9. Kurgan

    The issue is not if there IS a backdoor now

    While maybe there is no backdoor now, the issue is that there can be one tomorrow. It's not an issue with Kaspersky but with the fact that their business is based in Russia.

    1. John Savard

      Re: The issue is not if there IS a backdoor now

      Precisely, and the fact that this is an issue is not "pure politics". I mean, it's like Britain using antivirus software from a German firm in the 1939-1945 period.

      1. Zolko Silver badge

        Re: The issue is not if there IS a backdoor now

        UK and Germany were at war at that time : do you mean that the USA is at war with Russia ? That's what Putin has been saying all along, that it's not a war between Ukraine and Russia but between NATO (=USA) and Russia. When did USA declare war on Russia ?

        And why does the USA still buy Uranium from their enemy ?

  10. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    I'm sure this is correct. However this can change overnight.

  11. cryptopants

    Of course it’s politics

    The United States is a sovereign nation, it’s absolutely can ban a foreign entity for purely political reasons. Good luck with your lawsuit.

  12. constance szeflinski

    Everyone is suspect after today. Issuing a unilateral Update to all their software simultaneously might insert something malicious that wasn’t there before.

    1. DropBear
      Angel

      EXACTLY! We need to ban CrowdStrike NOW, OR ELSE!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        And their faclitators, Micro$oft

  13. aks

    Who's backdoor?

    I've always assumed that the issue is that Kaspersky *doesn't * have a backdoor.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like