back to article Devs claim Apple is banning VPNs in Russia 'more effectively' than Putin

At least two VPNs are no longer available for Russian iPhone users, seemingly after the Kremlin's internet regulatory agency Roskomnadzor demanded Apple take them down. Red Shield VPN, which is focused on providing its services to Russian users, claims it received a note from Apple that says its VPN was removed from the …

  1. redpawn

    Not the Apple I loved

    I remember when they believed in free software and included a schematic with their computers. Now they are in favor of secrets and secretive governments for few rubles. As American as napalm now. Feel the Love.

    1. John Savard

      Re: Not the Apple I loved

      I hate to break it to you, but Dow Chemical is an American company.

      1. david 12 Silver badge

        Re: Not the Apple I loved

        I hate to break it to you, but Dow Chemical is an American company.

        >--- whoooosh ----->

    2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: Not the Apple I loved

      Its amazing how americans actually believe public statements made by corporate leaders.

      Apple never believed in open software, it was all an act. Every single public statement is an ACT, grow up.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not the Apple I loved

        Long history there. When I worked in Silicon Valley in the late '80's & early 90's, Apple made a big deal about turning green and not polluting California with the manufacturing their products. It was all just cover for closing their California manufacturing & offshoring it to Asia where labor was cheaper & at the time, there were no significant pollution controls.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not the Apple I loved

          .. yet Apple is at the forefront of recycling (sadly not on repairability) and was the first to actually report on conditions of where their goods were manufactured - without being forced to, by the way - but because they were at the time the only ones they were criticised again, without that anyone asked other manufacturers for their data.

          It's not all black and white.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge
            Trollface

            Re: Not the Apple I loved

            yet Apple is at the forefront of recycling (sadly not on repairability)

            If you mean they've saved a lot of metal by reducing the number of screws in product design, I agree.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not the Apple I loved

            keep sucking that apple flavoured cock. everything you wrote is garbage.

            Apple is only for 1 thing money $$$$$.

            all the rest is performative bollocks

          3. MyffyW Silver badge

            Re: Not the Apple I loved

            Recycling is the last of the 3 (or 5) Rs - and the most energy intensive. Far better to Reduce, Reuse or Repurpose, for which I don't think the fruit company exactly has great form. Although it's probably better than some android products

  2. John Savard

    Doing Business

    Companies have to obey the laws of countries in which they do business. So, obviously, Apple has to pull things from its App Store in China when its government demands it.

    But why on Earth is Apple doing business in Russia when Russia is dropping bombs on people in a democratic country allied with the United States? That's like doing business in Germany in the 1939-1945 period.

    1. Andy_bolt

      Re: Doing Business

      I’m curious why you got a down vote. It’s not like the Russian regime is benign or just oppressing its own people. They are actively bombing a sovereign nation that had entered into agreements with for them to surrender their nuclear arsenal. Good luck ever convincing any country to ever give up nukes from here on in.

      1. train_wreck

        Re: Doing Business

        Probably the Roskomwhatever representative lol.

    2. NATTtrash

      Re: Doing Business

      That's like doing business in Germany in the 1939-1945 period.

      Why are you surprised? Since inventing it, humans by default seem to go for "opportunities" making them vast quantities of money.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

      1. John Savard

        Re: Doing Business

        Actually, I read the book "IBM and the Holocaust" from cover to cover. It seemed to me that the book was well-researched, and the facts which it presented were accurate. But maybe there is something wrong with me, because as I read the book, it seemed to me that despite the way the authors reacted to those facts, they were telling the story of...

        a company that had been doing business in Germany before Hitler came to power, and when Hitler came to power, they did just about everything that a private corporation could reasonably do to cease all operations in Germany, without placing their employees there in danger. Rather than IBM's behavior in Germany being egregious, what they recounted was behavior that was exemplary.

        All right, it is true that it is shocking that IBM covered up the fact that the Nazis (illegally) used (pirated) IBM punched card equipment in running their concentration camps, so as to avoid a potential image problem. But except for that, I was struggling to figure out what it was about IBM's behavior they considered objectionable and why.

        1. JWLong Silver badge

          Re: Doing Business

          Doing Business

          ""All right, it is true that it is shocking that IBM covered up the fact that the Nazis (illegally) used (pirated) IBM punched card equipment in running their concentration camps, so as to avoid a potential image problem. But except for that, I was struggling to figure out what it was about IBM's behavior they considered objectionable and why.""

          The Nazis didn't use counterfeit punch cards on their IBM original tabulators during WWII. They purchased them(cards) through a Swiss company that IBM started, operated, and wholly owned to meet the letter of the laws.

          Others tried to counterfeit the cards but never got it right, so the Germans along with IBM cooked up this scheme to defeat the object of the law. The secret to the cards was the paper it was made from, it was highly stabile and the individual card weight was very uniform. From what I understand from a family member of mine, it took about 1.5 cards to get a good one. That's why I spent my early childhood using defective punch cards as drawing paper, he would bring them home when they were defective. And they never bleached the fibers to whiten them, that's why they had a yellow tint.

          The cards were precision printed on high quality, die cut stock. IBM would pull 10% of QA stock and either test punch it or send it to the manufacturing floor where the tabulators were made to assure interoperability between cards and the entire list of machines that used them. In other words IBM had their customers locked in on the supply side.Even the Nazis couldn't break this shit up and paid a dear price for it(in gold).

    3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: Doing Business

      Apple should have done the right thing and shutdown everything, turned off al their phones.

      If ALL corporations did the same, this war would have been over a long time ago. At the very least they would have done their thing to help.

      The American government should fine Apple for co-operating with the enemy, people got shot in WW1 and WW2 for doing a lot less.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Doing Business

        Is Apple actually cooperating with an enemy? If we take on western paranoia with Chinese manufacturers, it should be seen as just the opposite.

        I guess Apple could have code in iOS that allows them to remotely disable phones in any particular region, but I doubt it would go down well with the folk here, knowing they have that capability. Besides, who will be hurt or disadvantaged most by disabling iPhones: the general population, who have no real influence on a war, or than the government.

        Not complying with local laws is likely to hurt the users more than Apple, as it gives suppressive authorities more legitimacy to persecute them.

        I'm not happy that VPNs have been removed but I doubt those who really need to use them don't have an alternative...

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Doing Business

          Of course Apple is co-operating with the enemy. Iphones are being used by millions of Russians as part of their business. Many of these same businesses are building weapons that are used against Ukraine.

          While most Russians obviously dont believe the bullshit from Putin, ther eare many who still do. THe sooner the entire Russian economy collapses because stuff doesnt work the better it will be for them, Ukraine and everybody else in the world.

          AC: Not complying with local laws is likely to hurt the users more than Apple, as it gives suppressive authorities more legitimacy to persecute them

          cow: exactly. When everything turns off and they sent back the stoneage the sooner Putin and his friends will be hung.

          1. Bebu
            Windows

            Re: Doing Business

            sooner Putin and his friends will be hung

            I understand men are hanged while beasts and laundry are hung but here I believe you are correct.

            1. Andy_bolt

              Re: Doing Business

              If a person is somehow nailed to the wall in the manner of hanging a painting, would he be hanged in that instance?

              1. Necrohamster Silver badge
                Headmaster

                Re: Doing Business

                Interesting question.

                Merriam-Webster says:

                The past tense of hang in almost all situations is hung. You hung a picture on the wall yesterday, or you hung out at the mall last week. Only use hanged when referring to someone being sentenced to death via hanging.

                Based on this, I believe that a person nailed to a wall (as you would with a painting) is indeed hung.

                But wait, there's more...

                It's not that simple, however: most usage guides reserve hanged for people subjected to death, which means if an inanimate object is suspended from a gallows, the correct term is hung.

                I need to stop hanging out in the Reg comments section

              2. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

                Re: Doing Business

                Nail 'em up I say... Nail some sense into them!!!

            2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

              Re: Doing Business

              And this matters because ?

              1. Necrohamster Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: Doing Business

                It's called being silly. Lighten up. You'll notice nobody else complained...

          2. This post has been deleted by its author

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Doing Business

            > cow: exactly. When everything turns off and they sent back the stoneage the sooner Putin and his friends will be hung.

            No. When you inflict as much immediate damage to people as you want to do, they react against the immediate aggressor, they do not engage in chains of justification back up to their leadership. Talking heads and self-elected "local leaders" who get themselves in front of the TV cameras will indulge in some political thinking, but likely not what you want to hear.

            Instead, the normal people you have just sent back to the stone age will be screaming at Apple for preventing them from finding out if their relatives are still alive, if the water supplies are still on their ways: real, immediate anger at what is in front of them.

            1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

              Re: Doing Business

              AC: Instead, the normal people you have just sent back to the stone age will be screaming at Apple for preventing them from finding out if their relatives are still alive, if the water supplies are still on their ways: real, immediate anger at what is in front of them.

              cow: So the real priority is not preventing and shutting down a war killing thousnads but to protect Apple ?

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Doing Business

                > AC: Instead, the normal people you have just sent back to the stone age will be screaming at Apple for preventing them from finding out if their relatives are still alive, if the water supplies are still on their ways: real, immediate anger at what is in front of them.

                > cow: So the real priority is not preventing and shutting down a war killing thousnads but to protect Apple ?

                Sigh.

                You want A to happen. You suggest doing B. I tell you B will cause C, not A. You claim that means I only want to prevent C.

                Spot the strawman yet?

        2. Bebu
          Windows

          Re: Doing Business

          《I guess Apple could have code in iOS that allows them to remotely disable phones in any particular region, but I doubt it would go down well with the folk here, knowing they have that capability.》

          Another direction could be in a future iOS update install a VPN client for every russian iphone. :)

          A bit like running the bowler hatted interference at the end of the 1999 remake of Thomas Crown Affair (but I still prefer the '68 version. :)

        3. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Doing Business

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm

          > General Motors was far more important to the Nazi war machine than Switzerland," said Bradford Snell, who has spent two decades researching a history of the world's largest automaker. "Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."

          It was GM then today there are other American companies helping Russia.

        4. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Doing Business

          I guess Apple could have code in iOS that allows them to remotely disable phones in any particular region, but I doubt it would go down well with the folk here, knowing they have that capability. Besides, who will be hurt or disadvantaged most by disabling iPhones: the general population, who have no real influence on a war, or than the government.

          It probably does have the capability, ie using geolocation to know where a phone is means Apple could disable phones in a specific region.

          I'm not happy that VPNs have been removed but I doubt those who really need to use them don't have an alternative...

          But the average user probably doesn't know how to use those alternatives. They're conditioned to just downloading an app via the store. The politics are interesting though. We've sanctioned Russia, so Apple and AlphaGoo have to obey those sanctions. There's been tit-for-tat sanctions and bans on media in the West and in Russia. So normal way to avoid that is using a VPN so Russians can view Western media. Russia's now banned those, so Russians can't view the West's views on the conflict. Does this mean Apple had been evading sanctions by supplying services to Russians, or should we be encouraging Russians to use VPNs to bypass censorship?

          1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

            Re: Doing Business

            Jellied: I guess Apple could have code in iOS that allows them to remotely disable phones in any particular region, but I doubt it would go down well with the folk here,

            cow: SO what if it doesnt ?

            Im sure IBM shareholders were also disappointed they lost sails to Hitler when he was using their machines to count gas chambers... but we have to talk about priorities.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Doing Business

              cow: SO what if it doesnt ?

              That wasn't my quote. I said Apple probably could block iPhones and iPads. It's not supposed to be selling into Russia due to sanctions, but new iPhones are in the shops.

              Im sure IBM shareholders were also disappointed they lost sails to Hitler when he was using their machines to count gas chambers... but we have to talk about priorities.

              Sure, but modern phones are essentially intelligence gathering devices. Apple (and AlphaGoo) know where phones are and everything the user is doing with them. This obviously has value. Same with VPNs as they can allow users to bypass state censorship attempts, hence Russia blocking those.

              1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

                Re: Doing Business

                jellied: That wasn't my quote. I said Apple probably could block iPhones and iPads. It's not supposed to be selling into Russia due to sanctions, but new iPhones are in the shops.

                cow: yes i know you said COULD block and they could do this and that.

                Its strange how you think its more important that people keep using their iphones above the misery of millions dying.

                jellied: Sure, but modern phones are essentially intelligence gathering devices. Apple (and AlphaGoo) know where phones are and everything the user is doing with them. This obviously has value. Same with VPNs as they can allow users to bypass state censorship attempts, hence Russia blocking those.

                cow: stop talking bullshit, theres more value in slowing down the russian economy further by killing as many of their smart machines phones and computers.

      2. Sok Puppette

        Re: Doing Business

        They're not "their" phones. They sold those phones. Stop encouraging the idea that people never own anything.

        They could legitimately turn off the App Store and all their other cloud services, though. Which would of course greatly reduce the utility of the phones. Which is why only a total moron would ever buy an Apple phone.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Doing Business

        > people got shot in WW1 and WW2 for doing a lot less.

        Like suffering from PTSD.

        Great example to follow.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Doing Business

          US army executed about 140 of its own during WWII. One - Eddie Slovik - was for desertion; the others were for murder and/or rape.

          The desertion case seems to have been "pour encourager les autres" though it was the only case of execution for desertion since the ACW. There were about 50 convictions with a capital punishment for desertion but all the others were commuted.

      4. Claptrap314 Silver badge

        Re: Doing Business

        We are not at this time at war with Russia. In fact, to my knowledge, we maintain full diplomatic relations with them (and China), as opposed to North Korea, Iran, or Cuba.

        I agree that Putin & Pals are enemies of the West generally. But governments are only supposed to punish persons (including corporate persons) when laws or regulations have been found by a competent authority to have been violated.

        It is not at all clear that this article describes a such a violation.

        Not that I want to do business with Apple personally, mind you.

    4. Proton_badger

      Re: Doing Business

      Yes, would be nice though it they allowed other apps or app stores to be sideloaded (no, not only like their restricted malicious compliance in the EU). Then it wouldn't be their fault when Russians installed VPNs. But that would set a precedence for their other markets.

    5. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Doing Business

      Companies have to obey the laws of countries in which they do business.

      Unless you're Apple in the EU, then making up shit and loudly proclaiming you're compliant with that is fine.

      So, obviously, Apple has to pull things from its App Store in China when its government demands it.

      They do but if they also allowed the user to sideload any app they wanted then wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Note: Apple redefined what "sideloading" means for the EU. You can't just install an IPA file which is what everyone else understands by sideloading.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Doing Business

      > That's like doing business in Germany in the 1939-1945 period.

      Business collaboration with Nazi Germany (Wikipedia, so check their citations, of course): In December 1941, when the United States entered the war against Germany, 250 American firms owned more than $450 million of German assets.

      And, of course, Fanta was created by Coca-Cola (Germany) because the parent company was under a trade embargo and could not ship its cola syrup.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Doing Business

        we all tend to forget that a large number of americans were perfectly happy with hitler and the nazi's rampaging across europe.

        and rather a lot now supporting an orange turd that is happy to encourage putin to do the same. fuck all fascists

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Doing Business

      It is the American way of doing business, like Ford building truck in Nazi Germany up to 1945 (and later getting compensated because the factories were bombed by the USAAF).

  3. Winkypop Silver badge

    Never get between an American corporation and….

    …it’s cash!

    A different kind of bear.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft/Apple/Google all need to do a software update just for Russia...

    ...

    10 PRINT "YOUR STUFF IS BRICED"

    20 GOTO 10

    ...

  5. mark l 2 Silver badge

    its the obsession with a standalone app for everything that means Apple has to remove theses VPN apps in the first place.

    Just go to a VPN providers website, sign up for an account and you will be given the setting that you put into your phone and voila you will have access to a VPN without any app being required.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Or, you can put a profile script on your website that you can download and install. It doesn't have to go via the App Store.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > Just go to a VPN providers website

      Russia blocks websites by thousands, especially VPNs. The App Store was probably a working bypass.

  6. Necrohamster Silver badge
    Devil

    I want to know...

    ...why Apple's still operating in Russia?

    I thought we sanctioned that kleptocracy for starting a war?

    Spawn of Satan icon for obvious reason

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I want to know...

      Perhaps because they'd get sued into bankruptcy if the iPhone users got cut off.

      1. ragnar

        Re: I want to know...

        How? Russian users would have no ability to sue an American corporation when the American corporation is complying with federal sanctions.

      2. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: I want to know...

        Perhaps because they'd get sued into bankruptcy if the iPhone users got cut off.

        What court would the Russians sue Apple in?

  7. IceC0ld

    nothing to add :o)

    Just here to say, your Copy Write REALLY deserves a raise

    but that's the way the Cook, he crumbles

    I mean, just read that again, slowly LOL an absolute gem

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: nothing to add :o)

      I hate to point out that it’s about the umpteenth time they’ve used that particular line in a sub-head.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: nothing to add :o)

        That's how good it is.

  8. Necrohamster Silver badge

    My feeling on this is that Apple shouldn't provide any services or support to users in Russia.

    Apple products (like many other Western brands) are getting into Russia as black market imports from the surrounding ****-stans. So I understand how preventing iPhones, MacBooks etc from being sold to Russians could be a difficult task.

    However, given that sanctions are in place, Apple shouldn't allow their app store to be accessed from Russia/updates to be downloaded from Russia/iCloud accounts to be created from inside Russia.

    If Russians want to install apps, let them jailbreak their iPhones and sideload apps.

  9. Jason Hindle Silver badge

    Use Android

    Side load VPN software. Simples!

    1. Necrohamster Silver badge

      Re: Use Android

      You can set up vpn connections manually in iOS - you don't need an app!

    2. katrinab Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: Use Android

      You can side-load a VPN profile in iOS as well. Installing the profile from a website works in exactly the same way as installing it from an app.

  10. 9Rune5

    Move the store?

    Why don't they just move their store?

    I think Russians should be able to use their iPhones AND they should be able to install VPNs. AND iPhones should gradually provide more and more regime-unfriendly news.

    I sort of assumed that had been done a long time ago.

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