Supreme Court won't stop Biden leaning on social media giants to tackle disinfo

The US Supreme Court has reversed a prior decision barring federal agencies from coordinating with social media platforms to fight misinformation, on the grounds the plaintiffs in the case lacked standing to argue it to begin with. With the matter settled by a 6-3 decision [PDF] issued on Wednesday, the federal government is …

[ecofeco]

Dissent is not the same as lies

The 1st Amendment does not and never has protected slander, libel, provocation, incitement to violence and any fraudulent information that causes harm both economically or personally.

You can say something sucks all day long and encourage and persuade people to change that thing. You cannot do it using the above means.

This is not opinion, but established law and also legal philosophy as outlined in the Federalist Papers.

Fascists for some reason (/s), don't like this.

[Catkin]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

If those restrictions have been breached then it seems like it would be the job of the judicial, not the legislative or executive branches to take care of it (separation of powers). In the event, it does not appear that this speech is criminal, merely harmful; certainly, it has not found to be criminal by any court.

I believe it is a broadly valid concern given that, while laws and court judgements are public record, quiet chats are not. Perhaps the best way forwards would be for the precise contents of these quiet chats to be retained for future scrutiny, in the same fashion as PRA 1978.

[Steve Button]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

"slander, libel, provocation, incitement to violence and any fraudulent information"

Let's take the Hunter Biden laptop as an example. Which one of the above allowed the US government to order all the social media companies to suppress that story?

Also, the things that Alex Berenson said on Twitter and then had his account suspended? Was that slander or libel? And why did they re-instate his account later on?

Be careful what you wish for because soon you might have a Trump government who also suppress and censor things that they don't like, and you might not like it so much when the boot is on the other foot.

Free speech is important, and people were being suppressed for basically saying "something sucks"

I guess you could argue that a lot of things said in 2021 caused "harm economically" to the profits of Pfizer?

[codejunky]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

@Steve Button

"Be careful what you wish for because soon you might have a Trump government who also suppress and censor things that they don't like, and you might not like it so much when the boot is on the other foot.

Free speech is important, and people were being suppressed for basically saying "something sucks""

I came here to pretty much say this.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

codejunky> I came here to pretty much say this.

Not to post comments in the style of a MAGA Trump surrogate ? For shame !

[Catkin]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

Just for the sake of clarity, I would point out that the censorship of the Hunter Biden laptop story was the FBI, who claimed that the story was made up by the Russians (though presented no evidence as it was a request, not a legal order). It was the later shutting down of a Biden family account which was done at the behest of the current administration.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fbi-responds-mark-zuckerberg-claims-joe-rogan-show-rcna45082

“The FBI shared general warnings about foreign interference — nothing specific about Hunter Biden,"

The FBI have in fact confirmed that the laptop and its contents are legit during the gun trial.

Part of the SCOTUS ruling actually says that there is no evidence the call to censor the laptop story came from the FBI or CISA.

The most likely conclusion is that the Biden campaign and DNC had a route in to the various social media firms to get stories shut down. A 'catch and kill' so to speak.

[Catkin]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

*Biden family parody account

[Dimmer]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

“and you might not like it so much when the boot is on the other foot”

“and you might not like it so much when the boot is on your neck”

FIFY

:)

[Del Varner]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

Indeed. In how many countries is it illegal to say something bad about the leader? Saying "Xijinping sucks" would probably get you arrested in the PRC

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

That will get you disappeared in the PRC!

[ThinkingMonkey]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

No matter what party is in office at the time, I just don't want "the government" deciding what's real information and what is not. I don't trust them as far as I can spit. I don't want Trump doing it, but I also don't want Biden doing it. Or any other temporarily-elected official. The government having things removed that they don't like just isn't my idea of us having anything near "free speech". All you in the comments saying that the government *should* remove things that aren't "verifiable and true", when is the last time you watched the news and saw anything at all that was "verifiable and true"? It's just another way of saying "We'll say anything we want, in the meantime you just keep quiet."

[Mobster]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

The US government does not (and cannot) order social media to suspend accounts or delete posts. It can provide advisories. The platform owners (Meta, X, etc.) are free to oblige or (in case of being forced provide user information for example) challenge in court. The first amendment has no bearing here, as the platforms are privately owned and the government has not forced anyone to delete any posts or accounts.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

I came here to say similar, but you put it better.

Of course, the right wing grifters, liars, and conspiracy nutjobs won't be impressed.

[ecofeco]

Re: Dissent is not the same as lies

As some of the predicted and anticipated comments clearly show.

[Anonymous Coward]

Misinformation == non state sanctioned propaganda /s

“The US Supreme Court has reversed a prior decision barring federal agencies from coordinating with social media platforms to fight misinformation”

[diodesign]

Re: Misinformation == non state sanctioned propaganda /s

I think you might be being snarky here but on a serious note - the article does repeatedly and through-out include the caveat that this is misinformation as defined by the US government, which is an important distinction.

C.

[LazLong]

Re: Misinformation == non state sanctioned propaganda /s

The important distinguishing character of this info being labeled misinformation is that it was health-related, and not political in nature. Though many morons did and continue to make any COVID-19 public health info political fodder.

[Catkin]

Re: Misinformation == non state sanctioned propaganda /s

That's not the case, part of the original lawsuit is posts relating to the Hunter Biden laptop 'story' and claims about changes to laws surrounding postal voting. These may have still been untrue (in part or wholly) but I personally cannot see how they are health-related.

Moreover, the same individual (Rob Flaherty) who was using priority channels to Twitter to fight C-19 misinformation used those same channels to request the takedown of a parody account for a member of the Biden family. This is all in the original lawsuit, if you have a read through the original district court motion.

In my view, this is not a good look because it seems to be very harmful to attempts to fight health-related misinformation if those same tools are used politically.

[Mark Exclamation]

Regardless of your politics, America's enemies are using all "social" media platforms against it, via misinformation, quite effectively. If someone doesn't do something about it, the US might as well surrender. The same goes for the West in general.

[Jeroen Braamhaar]

Just as America and their allies (and a whole lot of special interest groups) are leveraging the same [social] media to inflame hatred of those "enemies" (or create entirely new enemies), relying on the average social media user being too stupid/lazy to think for themselves, blindly believe what they're being told and launch 'mostly peaceful protests/occupations' "for [insert cause here] justice" among other things ?

Now that I have your attention with that little snark (for which I'm only a little bit sorry) I feel the the need to point this out:

It's a VERY slippery slope between disinformation and dissent, and the dumber you keep/make people, the further you can shift that line without anyone realizing.

Do you want to fight disinfo/misinfo ? Give people perspective and encourage/teach them to critically think FOR THEMSELVES.

Don't try to 'control the narrative' and bombard people with the one side you prefer and exhort people to 'trust the experts' while discrediting/removing the other side.

And that requires access to information on ALL sides of ANY argument; political, economical, scientific, religious, societal, ideological - you name it.

I don't think anyone realize this is still censorship, albeit in a very alluring guise for a noble (corrupted) cause, and effectively, doing this means "the West" has ALREADY lost, emplyojng the same tactics we criticize the nations we call 'enemies' for.

I was going to post this anonymously, knowing it's a pretty spicy/contrarian post most will probably downvote to hell.

But please, before you do: think -for yourself- on what I've said and what it implies.

I have, and that's why I'm posting this under my own name.

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

"And that requires access to information on ALL sides of ANY argument"

Fine -- then give me actual information: verifiable facts. Too many people spout off opinions/gut reactions and call it information -- these are the dumb ones making all of us dumber, no gov't/political party intervention required.

I think we can all agree that suppression of actual facts is bad. But I have a lot of folks in my online social circle (because they're in my real-life social circle) who believe 100% of the propaganda from their political tribe, where all is holy and any dissent, even fact checking, is evil. Much of their "information" doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. And these people both vote militantly and breed prodigiously. Even when presented with verifiable-yet-contrary facts on a topic, they will believe in comfortable lies every time because it validates their opinions/perspectives.

My social circle also includes some from the opposite tribe, and they're just as bad (but generally breed less). You could argue about which tribe is which, but don't bother -- both extremes stink and won't allow pure facts to exist anymore.

In my opinion, the problem is not control from on high (gov't/corporations); it's the basic human condition of being flawed creatures. Part of that is they don't WANT to think for themselves -- they inherently want the comfortable narrative that makes them "right" and others "wrong".

[Anonymous Coward]

"then give me actual information: verifiable facts. Too many people spout off opinions/gut reactions and call it information"

Then why do so many people believe news opinion as fact?

"who believe 100% of the propaganda from their political tribe"

The best example of this was prior to 2021 people claiming they would never take the 'Trump Vaxx' yet after Biden came to office were calling for the arrest of anyone refusing the jab.

[Anonymous Coward]

America's enemies are using all "social" media platforms against it :o

America's enemies are the various three letter agencies and the military industrial complex.

Mark Exclamation: ‘Regardless of your politics, America's enemies are using all "social" media platforms against it, via misinformation, quite effectively. If someone doesn't do something about it, the US might as well surrender. The same goes for the West in general.’

[KeshLives]

The question is always who determines what is 'misinformation'. Too often that is politically determined rather than based on actual factual information.

[MachDiamond]

I got you standing!

To refuse to hear the case based on standing seems very odd. Every US citizen should have standing when it comes to something the government is doing that might lead to an abuse of power even with the purest of heart and intentions. Of the People, by the People and for the People is what we had been taught in school. If that's off the table, I could make more money and have a better house if I were to ignore a few other things I was taught as a kid.