back to article Microsoft blamed for million-plus patient record theft at US hospital giant

American healthcare provider Geisinger fears highly personal data on more than a million of its patients has been stolen – and claimed a former employee at a Microsoft subsidiary is the likely culprit. Geisinger on Monday announced the results of a probe into a November computer security breach, placing the blame on Microsoft- …

  1. mikus

    Two words, Internet Explorer

    For 25 years, Microsoft pushed the most commonly abused malware engine as Internet Explorer, at its core ActiveX as part of their own dotnet programming languages, ever to be unleashed on the populace, and only then begrudgingly admit to defeat in killing it off having found better adware and tracking in Google's Chrome engine now. Exchange servers are still a constant liability people misuse and abuse, and Active Directory every time remains the common denominator at the heart of most infections due to it's ubiquitous presence in 99% of enterprises today.

    If people haven't learned by now to mistrust Microsoft products, they impose their own blissful ignorance.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Two words, Internet Explorer

      We're talking about a company who exposed SMB/NetBios to the internet, allowing you to scan for the ports and access any network shares on the device over the internet (!!) BY DEFAULT (!!!!!!!).

      /shrug.

      1. navarac Silver badge

        Re: Two words, Internet Explorer

        >>We're talking about a company<<

        ....and we're also talking about a company that wants to add a keylogger (aka Recall) into Windows? What could possibly go wrong!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Two words, Internet Explorer

          > What could possibly go wrong!

          Well, considering the reliability of such models, they might not get any useful data... Defeating the whole point of adding the hardware in the first place. That would be terrible, right?

      2. david1024

        Re: Two words, Internet Explorer

        Scanning for open smb shares around your neighborhood... And the university for nfs too!

        Ahhh the bad ole days.

        1. Korev Silver badge
          Pirate

          Re: Two words, Internet Explorer

          A friend used to use NTL and he said their network used to put the modems on a class C so you could browse "your" network to see who didn't have SMB locked down...

          This was in Cambridge, where I assume the average level of technical knowledge was higher than most places...

  2. tfewster

    Full access, or lateral movement?

    >While this snafu doesn't seem to be Geisinger's fault...

    I can't work out if Nuance manage all Geisinger's IT, including patient databases, or just the Voice comms.

    If the perp had database privileges, then game over. Otherwise layered security should have prevented network access becoming "access all areas"

    1. abend0c4 Silver badge

      Re: Full access, or lateral movement?

      It appears that Nuance provides systems that allow doctors to dictate medical notes and otherwise interact with medical record systems using their voice. There seems to be a growing number of areas in which the enthusiasm for automating medical processes perhaps hasn't sufficiently considered the possible risks.

    2. yoganmahew

      Re: Full access, or lateral movement?

      What? No! The DB should be encrypted so casual access is not permitted. Anyway, having voice to text'd, why would you continue to store? Those notes should go to the patient or doctor's DB, not to Nuance's. Have they not heard of HIPAA? https://www.nuance.com/about-us/trust-center/privacy/hipaa.html Hmmm, they have... they just don't give a shite. Executives at these companies need to be jailed, pour encourager les autres.

      1. zuckzuckgo

        Re: Full access, or lateral movement?

        > why would you continue to store?

        So you can sell the "anonymized" data for AI training?

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Who skipped the termination checklist again?"

    Spot the assumption.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Also who were the cheapskates not investing in privilege credential management… which would have meant withdrawal of the employees staff login and phone would also have blocked access to other systems…

      It is time consuming and irritating, working through an excel spreadsheet of nearly a hundred sets of credentials and changing them from former.employee@mycompany.com to new.user@mycompany.com, along with the password, phone and secondary email etc. … and along the way discovering the list is incomplete and also doesn’t cover key subscriptions set up on personal bank cards, reclaimed via expenses and thus until now invisible…

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Hey, have we worked at the same place? I've got the scars from every word you wrote.

  4. silent_count
    Unhappy

    Enough with the buck-passing

    If you choose to keep data, it is your responsibility to keep it secure. If you choose to store it on a computer, it is still your responsibility to keep it secure. If you choose to use an external IT service, it is still your responsibility to keep the data secure. Notice the pattern here? As flawed as Microsoft is, this is solely Geisinger's responsibility.

    They could have chosen to keep the data carved into 100kg stone tablets in a dark, remote archaeological site patrolled by a sabre-toothed tigers, scorpions, rats and all manner of Indiana Jones-esque traps. Could you imagine the disgruntled ex-whoever carrying the tablets out, one at a time, while having their legs chewed off?

    Instead Geisinger chose Microsoft.

  5. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker

    I was *this* close

    I didn't know Nuance was owned by Microsoft. I have been considering buying Nuance's Dragon recently (Pro, local install -- only distantly related to their Medical offerings), but the price is a bit steep. I looked into previous versions and found some on Amazon, from at least 10 years ago -- much, much cheaper, as long as they come with actual original license keys and are not used or cracked. Knowing those years are also pre-Microsoft ownership certainly aids that decision.

    1. Revolver0535

      Re: I was *this* close

      Having used both MModal and Dragon, I prefer MModal for its customization. Dragon is better with speech recognition though.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Personal data storage - I have an idea...

    For any organization (not just "companies") that wants to store the personal data of users, make them post a bond, whose size is related to the value and quantity of the data, before even beginning to collect the data. Something like this (per entry/user):

    Full name: $1

    Address: $2

    Birthdate: $20

    Social security number: $50

    So having 500 people's names and addresses would only be $1500 (names and addresses are often publicly findable). But storing 1,000,000 people's name, address, birthdate, and SSN: $73,000,000 bond before you start collecting it.

    However much data gets lost/stolen from the company, that's how much they owe in fines. Can't afford that size bond? Don't collect so much info!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Personal data storage - I have an idea...

      You've just put most national-scale companies out of business; or they take out a loan/insurance for this, and all our prices go up.

      How is this good ?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Personal data storage - I have an idea...

        The idea is that it's a bond - they're effectively insured against the loss. Insurance companies try not to have to pay claims, so they'd be requiring reasonable protections for this data, with proof. Overall, digital security would tend to get much better in a hurry.

  7. ecofeco Silver badge
    Holmes

    Was it actually the ex employee?

    Or was it someone using their account?

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