back to article How Europe can force Apple to support competition

The results of the European Commission's inquiry into Apple's response to the continent's latest competition rules are expected to surface soon – and reports indicate regulators are less than enamored with Cook & Co. In anticipation of the findings and what they may mean for Apple, Open Web Advocacy (OWA) – an international …

  1. Richard 12 Silver badge
    Big Brother

    'As on macOS'

    Notarization on macOS can take a very long time, and falls over pretty often.

    Plus it requires a developer account and acceptance of terms and conditions that they change at any moment without warning and break your macOS builds until the 'named individual' goes to the apple app store developer site and accepts whatever new arbitrary terms they've decided to impose on you that week. Not that you realise, as it's down just as often.

    Notarization is the most common cause of build failures, and as far as I can tell it doesn't even work.

    We've had several customers with broken installations as dylibs got added or replaced in the bundle. No idea how it happened, only that macOS didn't detect it at all.

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Apple's browser rule

    That is why Apple adopted the smartphone market. On a PC, Microsoft cannot dictate what browser you can use, the user can install the browser he wants and, should Redmond try to circumvent that, the lawsuit would be immediate and devastating.

    But, on a smartphone, Apple can have a field day. It owns the platform, it does what it wants. And what Apple wants is total control without liability (and yes, I know about MacOS, but the PC market is still something that Apple has not penetrated significantly after decades of trying, the smartphone market is an entirely different ball game).

    The only way to change that is with legal imposition. Capitalism is not going to auto-regulate this.

    1. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

      Re: Apple's browser rule

      I would say that MacOS is dying. Sales of Macs are dwindling because of the loss of x86 interoperability and the increased battery life and performance of the M-processors can't make up for it.

      The only reason MacOS still exists is because Bill Gates ordered his troops to develop a version of Microsoft Office for Mac. And this was based solely on his personal relationship with Jobs. It had nothing to do with sound business economics. The Mac version of Office is an entirely independent creation, sharing almost no source code with the Windows version.

      1. Tessier-Ashpool

        Re: Apple's browser rule

        You can take my MacBook out of my cold dead hands.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple's browser rule

        The only reason MacOS still exists is because Bill Gates ordered his troops to develop a version of Microsoft Office for Mac

        Ugh no, the reason that you find MacOS in practically any web coding shop is because it integrates far better with Linux than Windows ever did, even after all the pretend support. And no, there's no actual need for MS Office pollution on a Mac due to Microsoft finally discovering that Netscape was right (of course, after killing them first for daring to compete, but I digress) as they're moving literally everything to the browser (of course, as always in the most convoluted way possible). This means that even on a Mac you can just use a browser for MS applications so you can sandbox it (unless you use Edge, I suspect), even though web Outlook will try to convince you to set it up as the default mail handler every. friggin. time. you start it up.

        Better hardware, far, FAR less exposed to malware and ransomware and a pretty stable UI which means you don't have this massive loss of staff time every time Microsoft needs to pretend it has something new - if you counted wasted staff time as part of your TCO you would never even *touch* Microsoft products. Bonus feature: I don't need to keep a large stock of parts for the people who do international work, Apple is effectively doing that for me.

        Announcing the death of MacOS is a tad premature IMHO, even despite that the company is now being managed by a bookkeeper who wouldn't recognise innovation if it bit his nose.

        1. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

          Re: Apple's browser rule

          Nothing integrates better with Linux than Linux. Why buy a overpriced sub-optimal Next derivative if you can download Linux for free?

          And I stand by my claim about Office only existing because Gates willed it so.

        2. Snake Silver badge

          Re: Apple is "better"

          "Better hardware

          Most certainly NOT. Don't bother to watch Lou Rossman's YT repair channel?? It is quite apparent that you do not and are therefore in a bit of denial. Rossman has a HUGE list of Apple design failures here has to deal with on a daily basis in his Apple repair business - it is almost a bad joke.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Apple is "better"

            Weirdly, literally the only manufacturing issue we've had was a battery issue in an older Mac, and that was ugly but was caught before it got dangerous. For the rest the only issues we've had are the classic user ones like a glass of coke over the keyboard and a bashed screen because it really helps removing a pen from the keyboard before you shut a laptop. You know, the usual mix of wear and tear and idiot users.

      3. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: Apple's browser rule

        "I would say that MacOS is dying. Sales of Macs are dwindling because of the loss of x86 interoperability and the increased battery life and performance of the M-processors can't make up for it."

        lol

        #copium as the kids would say.

        Mac hardware sales have made up 8-10% of Apple revenue for the last decade. But I'm sure the board of Apple cry themselves to sleep every night on a big pile of money, knowing that you think they failed :D

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple's browser rule

          But I'm sure the board of Apple cry themselves to sleep every night on a big pile of money

          Upvote for making me put something under my screen as it's dripping with sarcasm :).

        2. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

          Re: Apple's browser rule

          I'm predicting Apple will eventually become a one-trick Pony (iPhone) with everything else getting ditched in the eternal search for more profit.

          Operating system market share is something fickle. If Mac OS X drops below a certain percentage (say 10%) most ISV's will opt to stop supporting the platform to increase their profit margins. As an ISV you can't ask for twice or thrice the price for you Mac OS X version compared to the Windows version.

  3. Cruachan Bronze badge

    It is kind of funny that despite Microsoft's best efforts to dictate the browser, and more than a few legal slappings along the way, Google managed to grab the lion's share of the desktop browser market in their own underhanded way.

    MS never forced Netscape to use the IE engine just to install on Windows though, as bad as their behaviour was in those days (and still is in many areas).

    1. Persona Silver badge

      Back in those days people were looking for the "killer app". They thought it was the browser, but it wasn't. It wasn't even an app. It was search.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Your memory is short

      IE was embedded into the Operating system (even the file browser was IE in win98)

      It could not be replaced, or uninstalled without most of the rest of Microsoft software no longer working.

      1. Cruachan Bronze badge

        Re: Your memory is short

        Nothing wrong with my memory, I'm aware it couldn't be uninstalled but it wasn't irreplaceable - you could install and use any browser you chose and it wasn't dependant on IE.

        What Apple are doing on iOS is essentially demoting any third-party browser to a skin. It might look like Firefox but it will present to a website and behave as if it was Safari. Not even MS went that far.

  4. Zibob Silver badge

    I for one look forward to an apple free europe

    Just one of the possible outcomes. Push hard enough and apple might decide we are not worth the effort.

    1. Like a badger

      Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

      With sales in Europe of around £2bn per day, I think I can say it will be worth the effort of complying. This isn't because Apple can't, nor because it'll cost them too much, it's simply corporate petulance.

      1. Justthefacts Silver badge

        Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

        You’ve got your wish.

        Apple literally just announced that *all* the flagship features of the new iPhone are not being rolled out in the EU due to regulatory issue of DMA.

        https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/21/apple-ai-europe-dma-macos.html

        Not just the AI stuff, but screen mirroring too. Apple have put the EU software version onto the maintenance branch. Clearly they’ve decided that the cost-benefit now favours “legacy sales only”, and their product line is in run-off within the EU.

        1. Dinanziame Silver badge
          Angel

          Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

          No AI on the phones? Sounds like a dream to me

        2. Tessier-Ashpool

          Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

          It’s on hold until 2025, that’s all.

        3. Necrohamster Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

          "Apple literally just announced that *all* the flagship features of the new iPhone are not being rolled out in the EU due to regulatory issue of DMA."

          Reading is hard eh? What the headline actually says is:

          "Apple Intelligence won't launch in EU in 2024 due to antitrust regulation, company says"

    2. Necrohamster Silver badge

      Re: I for one look forward to an apple free europe

      The EU's got a bigger population than the US, so I'd say this prediction won't come to pass

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    > Its lengthy set of recommendations include

    All of those rules could be pretty much resolved with one requirement:

    "The device must be usable offline from inception".

    Some highlights of the results:

    - Would imply that sideloading must be allowed.

    - Thus Apple can't prevent 3rd party browsers installed.

    - Notarization doesn't become a dictator.

    - DRM resolved, thus landfills remain slightly emptier.

  6. IGotOut Silver badge

    Poor Apple...

    ... finally finding out that the EU doesn't like to have the piss taken out of it by large corporations.

  7. Jerome

    Why should the Android model be forced onto everyone?

    So the EU decides that Apple has to adopt the Android model.

    Because it's obviously better in terms of security, business opportunities for developers, ease of use etc.?

    Let the users choose.

    Buy a Windows PC and an Android phone if you prefer their model - but why should bureaucrats force me to the Android model (which, as a user, I really do not want)?

    1. ecofeco Silver badge
      Pirate

      When users actually have choice and not a corporate gamed and rigged artificial market, that is a grand idea.

      Until then... well, don't hold your breath.

    2. Chet Mannly

      Re: Why should the Android model be forced onto everyone?

      The 'Android model'? I think you mean the model of basically every computer system in the world apart from iOS, as all the others allow you to install software from multiple sources, including open-source, and choose your web browser.

      Anyway, you aren't being forced into anything mate - if you wanna stay in the walled garden doing everything Apple dictates then you are free to do so.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That all seems very reasonable

    And I write as an all-in Apple user who does not have an Android or Windows device in the house.

  9. Stephendeg

    Google chrome

    No love for apple, but the creeping cancer that is google chrome only websites is getting me down.

    1. Mark Ruit

      Re: Google chrome

      My Chrome-only website problem is not so much the usual run of commercial or media websites, since most of those I can do without. "If your pages won't work in my browser of choice, then I have no interest in your offering thankyouverymuch (and goodbye)".

      I am faced daily with the websites of two different Banks which are 'difficult' with Firefox: things like having to log-in twice, or problems with printing or downloading (eg statements, tranaction details).

      Even worse is a SaaS which I am constrained to use for my (voluntary) work, which essentially will not work at all due to scripts which do not respond. Yes I can by-pass those, but only after a fixed delay. Everyy one of them costs me waiting time, when I could be productive.

    2. IvyKing Bronze badge

      Re: Google chrome

      Apple's requiring ios web browsers to be based on Webkit is probably the only thing that keeps Google's Chrome from becoming the second coming of Internet Explorer. This is from someone who has used Mozilla browsers (Netscape & Firefox) for 90+% of my browsing.

      1. Cruachan Bronze badge

        Re: Google chrome

        Indeed, MS giving up on their own engine and switching to Chromium has almost got us to the one-browser (well, one engine) state that MS wanted all those years ago. I've noticed in the last few years more and more little glitches in Firefox as devs (understandably) do most of their testing on Chromium. Safari is in no way a good browser either, but in Apple's case (on iOS devices) this is by design - they want people using apps cos that's where the dollars are.

        For the ultimate in irony, Firefox might not even still be a going concern if Google stopped paying them to be the default search engine.

  10. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

    Painful

    "...has done so in ways that make life as painful as possible for competitors."

    This isn't against the law per se. Nowhere does the DMA state that Apple has to allow sideloading without barriers. The EU may claim that barriers are against the spirit of the law but they're certainly not against the letter of the law.

    My guess is the EC will dish out some gargantuan fine only to see it struck down by the European Court of Justice.

    1. Snake Silver badge

      Re: isn't against the law

      Yes it is, I'm sorry that you don't understand the law.

      Courts have historical interpreted law using two metrics: the letter of the law and 'the spirit of the law'. This interpretation has been going on for centuries. Courts have imposed penalties when you violate the exact specifics of a written law but they have also imposed penalties when you hit the 'gray area' of a law (not exactly and precisely violating written terms as narrowly read) but have violated the general principle of the law in question's social or financial motives.

      1. Necrohamster Silver badge

        Re: isn't against the law

        "...they have also imposed penalties when you hit the 'gray area' of a law (not exactly and precisely violating written terms as narrowly read)"

        Wow, telling someone they don't understand the law and following it up with that statement?

        You either break a law or you don't.

        If a law contains an ambiguity or "gray area", the people who drafted the law screwed up. Judges have also been known to misinterpret laws, and this is why we have courts of appeal.

        1. Chet Mannly

          Re: isn't against the law

          What he means are drafting notes that pass along with the law, and are part of the bill that is passed by parliament. These lay out the intention and reasoning behind the law, the intent of the lawmakers. Where there is a grey area judges rely on these as part of their deliberations.

          There will always be a grey are with law as situations evolve fatser than laws do. If there is no grey area Judges wouldn't be ruling on the matter in the ifrst place as the law would be obvious.

  11. DerekCurrie
    Megaphone

    EU: DON'T KILL iOS SECURITY!

    Apple makes a lot of blunders. Feeding its stockholders has been a corrupting, crapitalist influence. Steve Jobs would be appalled.

    But the APPLE WALLED GARDEN WORKS!

    The Android public garden is a nightmare. Google's 'vetting' of apps in its Play Store is ABYSMAL. I can prove it with piles of articles over many years.

    So: HEY EU! HANDS OFF THE WALLED GARDEN!

    Punish and improve Apple's uncompetitive behavior. But don't you DARE damage the Apple iOS walled garden. It's a SUPREME BENEFIT of iOS.

    If anything, FORCE GOOGLE to actually, seriously, honestly, vigorously vet Android apps. Then maybe I'll believe there is any kind of remote security equality between iOS and Android.

    GOT THAT EU!

    Aside:

    ;-) I know perfectly well that we're going to remain in the Dark Age of Computing for a long time to come. But we're not going to get out of it until we FORCE coding to be inherently and demonstrably SECURE. Until then, I love Apple's iOS walled garden. Would I want such a thing for macOS. HELL NO!

    ;-) The wetware security factor? That's never going away, sad to say. We can't even get IT professionals to adequately back up their data locally, let alone off-LAN. Consider me justifiably cynical in this respect.

    1. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: EU: DON'T KILL iOS SECURITY!

      I have news for you: the walled garden is fine. All this law requires is that, if I want to walk outside that garden and brave the dangerous woods, I can. You can remain in that garden, with the gates closed, all you want. If something bad happens to me in the woods, that's on me.

      You don't need me to be unable to do something just because you don't want to do that thing.

    2. Chet Mannly

      Re: EU: DON'T KILL iOS SECURITY!

      So stay in the walled garden then (and take a chill pill). The EU is only demanding the option of going elsewhere if people choose.

      Been in the 'Android nightmare' for years with zero issues - sounds like you have Stockholm syndrome...

  12. Omnipresent Silver badge

    I still have the mac 1 in a closet.

    I can tell you Europe cannot compete in hardware but, Europe is RIPE for an OS takeover. DO IT.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    To some “Monopoly” is a game

    To Americans, it’s an objective.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: To some “Monopoly” is a game

      It's THEIR ONLY objective.

  14. Vulture@C64

    Apple has built a very secure (in so far as it can) platform and the EU, lacking the understanding to accept that, wants to open it up, on the surface to competition, which is a good thing, but in doing so will be damaging one of the key thing that makes Apple so good, their security.

    All you need do is look at another story on TheReg on. the same day, about Chrome web store vetting, to see the problem. Other manufacturers have never taken security seriously, Apple has. It's not perfect but it is a long way ahead of the rest and I don't want to see that security broken. https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/23/google_chrome_web_store_vetting/

    1. Necrohamster Silver badge

      I came here to make the same point about the dodgy Chrome extensions, and to say that the Google Play Store is just as bad (if not worse) than the Chrome Web Store:

      90+ Malicious Apps Totaling 5.5M Downloads Lurk on Google Play

      Choice is great. I choose not to be part of the alternative app store ecosystem.

      1. Chet Mannly

        And absolutely nothing that the EU is requiring affects your ability to choose that in any way whatsoever.

  15. DerekCurrie
    Megaphone

    As long as the Walled Garden of iOS SECURITY remains... Have at Apple!

    You'll never get me to support anything that compromises iOS device security. And we know the EU could techno-blunder their way into forcing just that.

    However, as this article well delineates, there is A LOT of Apple corporate crap to address, kill and replace with FAIRNESS and BENEFIT to the computer community as a whole.

    Just never Never NEVER shove the POS Android system of security hell on anyone!!! A big middle finger to Google for their next-to-WORTHLESS 'vetting' of Google Play Store apps. It's sick and sad JOKE pulled on the computer device community! Android security is appallingly poor, and I'll gladly point out years of articles to prove it. Don't do that to the Apple community! DON'T YOU DARE, EU! That's the jugular.

    Work on the rest of the rotting body that is Apple. There's plenty of Apple rot right now. They're clearly not going to clean up their act without EMBARRASSING them into self-improvement. THAT, sadly, is The Apple Way, as it was even under Steve Jobs. :-P

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like