back to article US Space Force wanted $77M to reinforce GPS – and Congress shot it down

A plan by America's Space Force to harden GPS against spoofing attacks may be going nowhere: A request by the service branch for $77 million of public cash to finish the work is struggling to get approval from Congress. The US Department of Defense's overall proposed $833 billion budget for 2025, which is now being pulled …

  1. sedregj Bronze badge
    Gimp

    Sees a great idea

    $77M is change down the back of the sofa. If it helps sort out changes in the *cough* threat landscape to GPS then spend it.

    If the US can't be arsed then the rest of NATO should do a whip 'round.

    1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

      Re: Sees a great idea

      Do you mean like Gallileo the european GPS system ?

      1. Catkin Silver badge

        Re: Sees a great idea

        It's a little more advanced. GNSS uses encryption in PRS to prevent spoofing but Block III GPS M-code uses additional directional antennas. This means a spoofer or jammer has to place their hardware closer to the target, leaving them more vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Sees a great idea

          You dont understanding what jamming means.

          It doesnt matter if any system has encryption if the signals are blasted by soething more poowerful , resulting in no signals being read by anything in that area.

          1. Catkin Silver badge

            Re: Sees a great idea

            Please re-read my comment. The jamming resilience relates to the directional antenna (which drastically increases the signal strength in the chosen area), not the encryption. It can definitely still be jammed but it means either using a more powerful jammer (bigger, noisier target) or putting jamming equipment closer to the targeted area (within the reach of more countermeasures).

      2. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: Sees a great idea

        You means the GNSS system that 13 years after beginning launches still has not yet reached it's minimum viable constellation size of 24 working satellites? They are currently at 23 working.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Sees a great idea

          While 24 is ideal, 23 more than covers most of the world. There are large parts of the world where there is literally nothing like below the southern arctic.

    2. Vincent Ballard
      Headmaster

      Re: Sees a great idea

      The point that the committee is making seems to be that they're only asking for $77M now for the next proof of concept, but the whole thing would be $1000M. If they're not willing to splurge the billion, there's no point paying for the PoC.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Sees a great idea

        Isn't it a good sign that they no longer fall for the "a few $100M here, a few $100M there, a $Bn cost overrun and soon you are talking real money" approach of defense contractors ?

  2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

    Jam proof ?

    Theres no such thing as a jam proof signal system. If it travels via radio waves it can be jammed when some arsehole beams a stronger signal.

    1. fg_swe Silver badge

      Not Completely Correct

      You can do "fancy" things with waveforms, you can use redundancy in the coding, you can use secret waveform creation(depending on a key) and you can use directional antennas.

      All of which helps massively against jammers.

      But in the ideal case for the jammer (being very close to the receiver), this does not work. That's true.

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Not Completely Correct

        Bit suprised it got shot down given current events.

        In Ukraine, Russia seems to be having success in jamming or spoofing GPS making GPS guided weapons like the US Excalibur 155mm shell and guided rockets like the GLSDB launched by HIMARS inefffective. Plus complaints that aircraft flying near Russian territory having their GPS navigation affected.

        No idea how Russia is doing this, but if they can do it, that knowledge will probably be shared and risks making GPS ineffective. DoD presumably knows this and the proposal is presumably to counter this threat. But like you say, it's hard to defend against jamming. Plus changing GPS would also need changes to any kit like Excalibur to use the new system. $77m suggests it's something that could be done without needing to replace GPS satellites, so maybe it's something that could be done in software for the recievers as well.

        Seems a lot cheaper than replacing GPS with a more secure system, plus whether Galileo and GLONASS suffer the same vulnerabilities.

        1. Lars
          Coat

          Re: Not Completely Correct

          The Russians have been able to heavily disturb GPS in neighbouring Finland and Estonia too.

          It's quite obvious there are very good reasons to try to do something about it.

          But I suppose it doesn't affect the USA or the fact that the USA is a two party system only.

          1. martinusher Silver badge

            Re: Not Completely Correct

            Actually, I'd guess that the original developers of GPS have retired and knowing how things work here they've not been replaced. We have a tendency in the US to exploit some really clever thinking resulting in this type of system but we're weak at follow on products, assuming that the foreigner couldn't possibly fathom out how to make such a sophisticated system, much less build something better/cheaper/faster etc.

            People from the UK will know all about this phenomenon, especially if they're older, because this type of resting on one's laurels while an initial neat product idea is milked and little to no reinvestment is carried out is an endemic problem, one that resulted in the demise of all sorts of industries. (Rationalized as the shift from 'manufacturing' to 'service' industries...).

            Anyway, if this follows SOP then there will be an initiative to produce something new and groundbreaking, admittedly at an eye-watering price, which will take for ever and never be entirely finished or functional. It will take an Elon Musk type upstart to deliver this type of capability simply because you need some way of cutting through the crap (and you also need privately held organizations since once the money people get in on the act the focus becomes 'monetization' rather than 'product').

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Not Completely Correct

              Anyway, if this follows SOP then there will be an initiative to produce something new and groundbreaking, admittedly at an eye-watering price, which will take for ever and never be entirely finished or functional.

              Again it's why I'm suprised Congress shot down the proposal. GPS has done well, given it's first launch was in 1978. Technology and the threat landscape has changed though, and $77m is a bargain compared to the costs to develop GPS2.0 and launch new satellites. Then again, I'm wondering if that's something that could just be piggybacked onto Starlink, Kuiper and OneWeb. 3 constellations with a shedload of satellites, all with clocks and positioning capability.

              Satnav systems already have the ability to combine signals from mutiple systems, so whether it'd be possible to do the same with broadband satellites. Might need some regulatory pressure and a bung to help with functonality, but one of those things that seems technically feasible.. Even though those words often scare me. But I guess it'd still be vulnerable to jamming and potentially spoofing.

              1. MachDiamond Silver badge

                Re: Not Completely Correct

                "something that could just be piggybacked onto Starlink, Kuiper and OneWeb. "

                All of which could go BK at any second and are not in the direct control of the military. It would mean that if it was being relied on, it would be "too big to fail" and subject to government bail out and the operators would know that. The US government can run a brothel at a profit, how would they take over something like Starlink?

        2. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Not Completely Correct

          "Russia seems to be having success in jamming or spoofing GPS making GPS guided weapons like the US Excalibur 155mm shell and guided rockets like the GLSDB launched by HIMARS inefffective. "

          and, GPS is primarily a military system so consumer units not having the ability to utilize M-Code doesn't enter into it. If there's another big to-do like 9/11, the consumer side of GPS could be turned off abruptly.

          The US military can't even properly account for billions in money so what's another $100mn? At least it's not for a large convoy of trucks that a base commander doesn't need or want via an order that's just a payoff to the maker. I used to look at the military auctions and there would be loads and loads of brand new spare parts, specialized tools and buckets of bespoke bolts for vehicles that the taxpayer shelled out millions for going at scrap prices. Some things are sold as "scrap only" and have to be shown to have been melted down by a registered and certified scrap buyer.

          So, I'm fine with spending a few bob to study ways to harden GPS.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Trollface

    Oh my God

    Am I to believe that there is actually some intelligence in Congress ?

  4. fg_swe Silver badge

    Alternative Navigation Means

    That GNSS is rather brittle has been known for a long time. Not really expensive or complex to jam.

    It's time to develop other means. Often this is just a software upgrade of an existing sensor processing chain.

  5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Set up a small demonstration

    Invite the committee on a jolly somewhere. Spoof their navigation to deliver them somewhere less salubrious than they were hoping for.

    1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      Re: Set up a small demonstration

      The South Pole sounds nice. And don't forget to pack the swimsuits and sun blocker.

      1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: Set up a small demonstration

        Are there any hookers at the south pole ?

        1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

          Re: Set up a small demonstration

          You mean, besides the congresscritters?

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