back to article Musk wants to ban Apple at his companies for cosying up to OpenAI

AI laggard Apple introduced the world to its fashionably late spin on the tech yesterday, and of course mewling billionaire manbaby Elon Musk had to stick an oar in – not that anybody asked. Cupertino told its Worldwide Developer Conference that within its walled garden, AI is not "Artificial Intelligence" but "Apple …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AI == Apple Intelligence

    I can see why the marketing people looked at Artificial Intelligence => AI => Apple Intelligence and simply couldn't resist.

    In a similar vein, I'm going to copyright A-hole Intelligence for the kind of intelligence that comes out of *&%£*£ [No carrier]

  2. nematoad Silver badge
    Happy

    Concerned about secrecy... or just mad...

    FTFY

    1. PBuon

      He’s completely misrepresented what Apple are doing. He’s a clown.

      1. Snake Silver badge

        You can't have an LLM - a Large Language Model - and privacy together. "Large" and "inclusive of enough data to make it functional" can't be on the same planet. They can say they 'anonymize the data', but you can't if you expect the models to have the base data to modify, you anonymize it too much and you just end up with garbled bits. A photo source can't be modified too much to stop identifying it as its original source because then, modified, it no longer suits the purpose of being the source of the model you seek to pattern. It's basic logic.

        So yeah, he's lying through his teeth. But, ah-hem, this is Cook we are talking about. When, exactly, has he / they not distorted the truth in search of their market share??

        1. Peter-Waterman1

          What utter rubbish. You can take a LLM run it offline, in your data Center behind your network firewall preventing any data getting out or back to the LLM provider.

          And if you look at an LLM like claud or gpt, it’s been trained on publicly available data so unless you leave your company data exposed to the internet you should be safe.

          Now, if you start sending data to an LLM owned by someone else, over the internet, privacy isn’t the issue it’s the user.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Yes. While I am very much not a fan of gen-AI, and while security and privacy are one of my fields and an area that concerns me, there's no technical reason why an LLM can't be used in ways that don't leak information supplied by the user.

            That doesn't mean I trust Apple, Google, Microsoft, or anyone else to integrate LLM-based features in a way that's adequately secure or protects privacy, but there's no technical obstacle to doing so. Just business ones.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > or just mad...

      Yes. In several senses of that word. "Angry", "crazy", and so on.

  3. Howard Sway Silver badge

    their Apple devices ... will be stored in a Faraday cage

    A simple box would of course be sufficient as a security precaution, it's not like the radio waves are going to be able to go off and roam around the building on their own and see or hear secret stuff ..... but then again, this wasn't thought through was it, sounds like the typical Musk tantrum mixed in with weed fuelled paranoia.

    It will be fun when the visitors try and pick their phones up from the cage of shame when they leave : "Uh, mine's the rectangular black slab with the Apple logo on the back....".

  4. Cruachan Bronze badge

    The only surprise to me about any of this is that Musk hasn't exempted himself from being "community noted" given that his free speech absolutism is a one-way street.

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      AFAIK this is the first time that's happened, so let's wait and see if he carves out an exemption for himself once he realizes he forgot to order that already.

      1. Cruachan Bronze badge

        Huh, just assumed he'd be constantly getting corrected given his stream of consciousness posts with no filter.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Sold down the river"

    I wish it were shocking that Musk would use such a racist phrase.

    1. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: "Sold down the river"

      How is its use appreciably racist? If anything, it acknowledges that slavery is bad and, at worst, it minimises in the same way that 'wage slave' does.

      It's hardly difficult to find things to criticise Musk for without undertaking linguistic contortions.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: "Sold down the river"

        Yeah there are plenty of reasons to find fault with Musk, without calling out phrases that while they may have a racist origins, are not known by most people using them. I wasn't aware of that, for instance, though it makes sense when you think about the literal meaning.

  6. Tron Silver badge

    Musk being Musk aside, he has a point.

    Having an AI option that you can disable is one thing. Having it baked into the OS is a bug, not a feature.

    I would generally avoid anything with AI that cannot be turned off. Happier with feature phones, old PCs and old laptops. Even happy to pull away from using tech if necessary.

    AI inserts unreliability into a system. I want a PC that reliably works (and sometimes reliably bluescreens), in both cases because it is doing what it is being told to, and only that.

    1. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: Musk being Musk aside, he has a point.

      I'd also point out that, whether client-side or server-side, the software and hardware needed for "AI" is indistinguishable from the privacy-destroying content that governments keep trying to foist upon us.

    2. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: Musk being Musk aside, he has a point.

      *privacy-destroying content scanning

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Musk being Musk aside, he has a point.

      "AI inserts unreliability into a system."

      Anything programmed by humans has unreliability in the system

  7. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    Oh Musky

    The thing is, these days, that Musky could raise a very important point, something important for everyone. But he no longer seems to have the capability to be able to say it rationally, clearly, and calmly.

    He can only spout off, in such a way that anyone, other than a dedicated Musk Fanboi, would treat his rantings as the work off a rabid conspiracy laden nut job, and ignore him.

    I think most people here on El Reg have concerns about AI and OpenAI in particular. But dear lord when Musky starts attacking them, it almost makes you side with them, doesn't it?

    1. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: Oh Musky

      But dear lord when Musky starts attacking them, it almost makes you side with them, doesn't it?

      While I wouldn't use his criticisms as instructive, I personally wouldn't do the opposite either. Acting contrary to an asshole still cedes power over your thoughts to their ramblings. For example, if he touted the value of consuming sugar, while I definitely wouldn't eagerly move to an all-sucrose diet, I also wouldn't reflexively remove all sugars from my diet.

  8. BadRobotics
    Devil

    Could someone put Mr Musk in a faraday cage?

    1. The Dogs Meevonks Silver badge

      without the holes

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        And with Zuck for the fight. Televised. No air holes, plenty of A-holes though....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Like Thunderdome, but with one fewer men leaving?

          I'd buy that for a dollar.

          1. The Dogs Meevonks Silver badge

            Two assholes enter, no asshole leaves.

      2. Bebu
        Windows

        Musk À Point.

        >> Could someone put Mr Musk in a faraday cage?

        > without the holes

        But with a magnetron!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple innovate yet again

    Another stunning Apple innovation, they've only gone and invented AI!!!

  10. TheMaskedMan Silver badge

    Does his Muskiness permit use of chatGPT at any of his companies right now? I'm guessing not.

    Assuming that this is the case, there's a certain logic in banning devices with it built in.

  11. Infi 1

    Blah blah Musk is a knob blah blah.

    "What's left? Linux? Musk would have to jump through all these hoops just to get Diablo IV running."

    What hoops? It's no more difficult installing on Linux than it is on Windows. Open Lutris, search for Diablo IV, click install and follow the prompts. Ooh, technical that!

    People still seem to think getting games working on Linux is extra hard when the reality is these days that it's about as difficult as installing a game on Windows for the most part. Yes, there are some games that do require extra tinkering and a few that just won't work (mostly games that use EAC with companies that intentionally block them on Linux - Bungie I'm looking at you).

    You also don't have to add a PPA for Lutris. There's a .deb installer on GitHub which you double-click to install, just like on Windows funnily enough.

    1. Infi 1

      Replying to myself just to qualify that the deb file only works on Debian distributions obviously. If you're using the others you will need the PPA if Lutris isn't in the repo for your choice of Linux, but as that's only a couple of lines to paste into a terminal it still isn't rocket science :).

      Anyway, back on topic, Musk is still a knob. If you don't like Apple devices (I have no interest in them personally) nobody's forcing you to use them and if you're going to ban devices you'll have to ban them all as they are all likely to have some form of AI in them going forward.

    2. Excellentsword (Written by Reg staff)

      I always try to leave a little something for you guys ;) xxx

    3. ArrZarr Silver badge

      If your main use-case for a computer is gaming, why wouldn't you run the best OS for gaming? Please note that the best OS for gaming is not the same thing as the most technically proficient gaming OS.

      It's also notable that in the case that you do have issues (running old games, for example), the size and consistency of the Windows install base means you're much more likely to be able to find a solution to a problem online. With Linux, not only is the install base smaller, but you have a billion different flavours of Linux that will all have their own quirks. If you want a concrete example, look at Planetary Annhiliation, from a few years back. It was kickstarted explicitly with Linux support. If their developer is to be believed, Linux accounted for <0.1% of sales and >20% of auto reported crashes.

      For all it's myriad faults, and I'm not pretending that this list of faults isn't LONG, Windows is a better gaming OS than any flavour of Linux for the vast majority of users, even among those who are technically savvy.

      1. Infi 1

        I choose not to use Windows. I have also had very few problems running games on Linux. Why would I carry on using an OS that is bloated beyond belief and where the customer is the product when I can quite happily play my AAA games on an OS that respects my privacy, doesn't try to force crapware on me and doesn't constantly have to deal with buggy security updates?

        Windows is not always best for gaming either. I have seen plenty of reports of games running better on Linux than they do on Windows with fewer issues (a quick internet search is all you need), and the ones that do have issues tend to be the aforementioned games using things like EAC where the developer has specifically made it difficult (or impossible) to run on anything but Windows.

        While there may also be hundreds of Linux distros, giving the user a choice of how they use THEIR computer, I personally tend to stick to major Debian DEs that are very well supported so I don't have any issues at all getting support if the need arises.

        As for Planetary Annihilation, I have both the original game and the TITANS standalone expansion and have never seen either crash.

        If you want to feed the MS machine then that is your choice but please don't try and tell me how I should use my PC or that gaming on Linux isn't a thing anymore. If you haven't tried it in the last year or two then your opinion is irrelevant.

        1. ArrZarr Silver badge

          I'm explicitly not telling you to use Windows, but your feeling that I am trying to tell you how to use your PC is eerily similar to how I felt reading your WOO LINUX comment.

          I've never installed a linux distro on a pc of mine, it's just not something I'm interested in dealing with, but I use VR headsets and other peripherals (racing wheel, controller, joystick) and they all just work on Windows. Maybe they would just work on a Linux distro but the chance of the seamless experience that I have had with these peripherals on windows 8 through 11 on a Linux distro is less likely.

          Beyond that, I do play a lot of older games (1995-2005), and that leads to all sorts of other issues. Maybe the community has solved all these issues in a given linux distro, but that's a big if.

          Again, I wasn't telling you how to use your computer. I can see how you felt that way. I can see that you weren't telling me how to use my computer in your original post, but I hope you can see why I felt that way.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The car never seems to work... Manchild, will you ever win?

    > and of course mewling billionaire manbaby Elon Musk had to stick an oar in – not that anybody asked

    3M - Mewling Manbaby Musk

    1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
      Stop

      Re: The car never seems to work... Manchild, will you ever win?

      "3M - Mewling Manbaby Musk"

      The lawyers from Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing -- the real-world 3M(TM) of Post-it Notes(TM) -- would like a word with you regarding brand defamation. I believe that's a Cease & Desist in that briefcase.

      (I've always loved 3M for their innovations, particularly certain employees from history like Richard G. Drew. Yes, there is plenty of bad corporate-stuff to throw shade on, but equating them with that particular mewling manbaby is uncalled for. Similarly, I'm a graduated member of the "Tri-M" Modern Music Masters high school music student honors program -- better leave them alone, too.)

  13. DS999 Silver badge

    Based on US market penetration

    At least half of Musk's employees are likely to have an iPhone. If he actually followed through (which I rate at about a 0.01% chance, he's already moved on the next shiny by now I'm sure) I'll bet a decent number of employees would feel like it is the last straw after everything else they've endured if now they have to give up their phone, and use an even more vulnerable Android phone just because the CEO had a tantrum that has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with being petulant that OpenAI's board failed to properly worship him as the uber-CEO he believes himself to be.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Based on US market penetration

      He will probably walk it back a bit.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: Based on US market penetration

        No he'll just forget about it, and if anyone asks him he'll falsely claim "Apple changed what they were doing in my response to my criticism!"

      2. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Re: Based on US market penetration

        No ‘probably’ about it! Give it a day or so and this will simply be forgotten, ‘no, of course I never said that’!

    2. ecarlseen

      Re: Based on US market penetration

      If this actually becomes an issue (moreso than every person entering their facilties carrying a very powerful computer capable of running all sorts of software while connected via high-bandwidth wirelss connections to the global Internet), it's a very simple thing for Apple to make it something that can be switched off using MDM.

  14. bud-weis-er

    Just thinking back fondly to the old days when Elon Musk was cool, not a mildly icky complete frigging dickhead.

    Feels like a long time ago.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Elon Musk was cool, not a mildly icky complete frigging dickhead."

      got news for you, he was always a dickhead. only fuckwits thought he was cool

    2. The Dogs Meevonks Silver badge

      he was 'never' cool... it's all about the PR.

      In the past, all you ever actually heard about him was written by PR, it was all positive bollocks.

      Now you can actually here from the fuckwit directly... and it turns out that people have now realised what a lot of us knew all along. He's a complete and utter cnut... the worst kind of narcissistic, bigoted POS who believes all of the things his own PR were writing about him. He doesn't invent anything, he's not even an 'idea' man... he's a self promoting marketing grifter.

  15. Bebu
    Windows

    Musk's knee jerked so hard

    Knee?

    It must stick in his craw that with his gazillions he cannot buy or bully the likes of Apple, MS, Google etc and that those corps have flourishing gardens of AI tulips whereas he only has the odd daffodil.

    Musk could buy Nokia and produce his own X phone sans OpenAI etc - worked out well for MS. :)

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Man shouts at AI clouds

    My Mum taught me not to stare at the afflicted.

  17. ecarlseen
    Big Brother

    The threat is a bit overhyped, but even as an Apple fan I have mixed feelings.

    There appear to be three modes for using AI with the forthcoming MacOS Sequoia and IOS 18:

    1) Apple's LLMs and other models, processing queries on-device, assuming your device has the compute power to manage this. I'm assuming this will be mostly 2024 model and newer machines where Apple has significantly upgraded their neural engines for this.

    2) Apple's LLMs and other models, processing queries in Apple's cloud on their ultra-custom, allgedly ultra-secure AI compute boxen. Apple is generally pretty good at privacy and security, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here until if and when they screw this up.

    3) ChatGPT4, with the source of the queries anonymized via Apple. Unless, of course, your query itself contains something that links it to you. Note that this is strictly opt-in, and you have to opt-in every time you use it. One the one hand, having limited access to ChatGPT4 available for free can be viewed as a nice bonus for Apple Customers. From a privacy stantpoint, this is a bit better than a vanilla GPT subscription and hey, free is free. For a knowledgeable and attentive user, this is a boon. The problem is that relatively few users are both knowledgeable and attentive and even the best of us are sometimes stupid and distracted from time to time.

    It's clear that eventually Apple wants (1) to be most if not all of their user's AI usage. It's best for privacy, and it gives Apple a way to keep the hardware upgrade cycle spinning along for a few more years at least. But Apple's LLMs and other models are relatively immature, they don't want to alienate their user base by restricting these features to new devices, and so they wrote some monster-size checks for (2) and (3) as crutches to mollify their customers in the meantime.

    1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: The threat is a bit overhyped, but even as an Apple fan I have mixed feelings.

      I'm assuming this will be mostly 2024 model and newer machines where Apple has significantly upgraded their neural engines for this.

      All the Apple Silicon Macs have a 'neural AI' module baken into them.

      Intel processor Macs? I suspect they won't be able to run it. Apple is strongly depreciating them so I think that the days of a new version of MacOS running on them is fast running out.

      1. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Re: The threat is a bit overhyped, but even as an Apple fan I have mixed feelings.

        You are probably right, and as the owner of an Intel iMac and an Intel MacBook, I’ve been left behind. But, even so, I do understand the need to, at some point draw a line, however painful it might be for people like me.

        I know I’ve said it before but, the biggest strength of Windows was it’s ability to run code from decades ago; and it’s biggest weakness was it’s ability to run code form decades ago! Which made it bloated, ungainly, including so much legacy ‘cruft’ that it became almost impossible to secure.

        MS did have the opportunity with Windows 10 or 11 (say), to completely rewrite the underlaying architecture, going forward this is how Windows will work, any applications have to conform to this and if they don’t, well they simply won’t run - sorry about that!

        If they did this but said that they would support ‘legacy’ Windows for the next, say five, ten years to give companies and software vendors time to migrate or update, and after then, well sorry, sucks to be you and your company!

  18. TheMeerkat

    Can “The Register” survive a day without spouting its hatred towards Mask?

    It is now not about informing us about the news, it is about expressing the hatred.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Can Herr Musk go a day without sprouting some gibberish?

    2. sabroni Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Awwwww

      Did they say something nasty about your favourite fascist?

      Well he could always buy the company to make sure that people with differing views are silenced/free speech triumphs.....

      1. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Re: Awwwww

        For crying out loud, don’t give him ideas!!!!!!

    3. Excused Boots Silver badge

      “Can “The Register” survive a day without spouting its hatred towards Mask?“

      Less hatred, more calling out pathetic behaviour and claims. He is mouthing off about a ‘feature’ that doesn’t exist, wasn’t promised in the keynote speech, and isn’t practical anyway!

      Do you think he did any sort of fact checking beforehand? No; he has beef with Open AI, and at the simple mention of their name he just went into full ‘toys out of the pram’ mode! Can’t help wondering if he made that post before or after a few ‘lunchtime drinks’!

  19. gnasher729 Silver badge

    People killer

    His “cybertruck” is banned from use anywhere in Europe because it is designed to kill pedestrians. I wonder if Tim Cook could get a ban in Cupertino installed. Would be fun.

  20. Excused Boots Silver badge

    I doubt it was ‘designed’ to kill pedestrians, I suspect that was an unintentional byproduct of a really not well thought out design.

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