back to article FTX's $24B tax bill written down to just $200M

Imploded cryptocurrency exchange FTX owes a lot of people a lot of money – but has convinced America's tax collectors at the IRS to give it a massive discount on its $24 billion tax bill. In a filing [PDF] this week to a Delaware bankruptcy court, FTX argued it should pay just $200 million of the $24,000,000,000 Uncle Sam …

  1. Jim Mitchell
    Pirate

    Tax tips from Al Capone:

    Remember kids, gross taxable income includes illicit income.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Got to hand it to the IRS

      you gotta hand it to the IRS. taxing SBF's crooked gains and slapping the bill on his biz was a stroke of genius

      had it worked. lol. $200 million it is then

      1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

        Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

        Ok, so the IRS gets $0.04 in the dollar, but with it, IRS gets open access to the corporation's ledgers and transaction histories.

        Suddenly all that anonymous finance isn't so anonymous any more. That information might be worth >$1 on the dollar.

        1. iron

          Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

          What anonymous finance? Crypto is not anonymous, it is all published publicly on a blockchain. It is the very opposite of anonymous.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

            Wallet IDs are published on the blockchain. That's not enough information for tax authorities to easily track and tie to taxable entities. Cryptocurrency is anonymous in the sense of "usually difficult and expensive to connect to another legal or physical identity".

            1. Alan Brown Silver badge

              Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

              As we've already seen in one blackmail case, it's reatively easy to link a wallet to a transation to a person, with authorities sending a 1c transaction and then verifying it shows up in the suspected wallet

          2. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

            "It is the very opposite of anonymous."

            Not only what YOU have, but where you got it and where it came from before that. This is why they are paying close attention to "blenders" so that trail isn't obscured. Following the money without blockchain is much hard and can be covered up in many different ways.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

              The obvious answer to the mixer question is mark all output accounts as tainted if any input account is tainted. You don't get to keep criminal proceeds even if you acquired them in good faith from the criminal.

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Got to hand it to the IRS

          And $200M now without a long, expensive court fight has much to recommend it. The IRS never would have been able to get that $24B even under the best circumstances; as the article notes, FTX might be able to raise $16B by liquidating assets. And whatever is returned to US customers offsets their losses, which they could have used to reduce their taxes, so the IRS in effect gets some of that back too.

  2. Sora2566 Silver badge

    Man, it must be nice to be a corporation; I wish I could tell the government that I'm only going to pay 4% of my taxes and not get arrested for it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      How does the saying go?

      If you owe someone $1,000 that's your problem. If you owe someone $1,000,000,000 that's their problem.

      s/someone/bank/g or /government/g etc

      1. rg287 Silver badge

        Re: How does the saying go?

        f you owe someone $1,000 that's your problem. If you owe someone $1,000,000,000 that's their problem.

        s/someone/bank/g or /government/g etc

        For a bank or local government, yes.

        But not if that someone is central Government. For the Feds, tax is just a means of pulling cash back out the economy to control inflation. Government spending is new money, and it needs to be pulled back out at some point. USGov can print money as and when it needs (e.g. Quantitative Easing).

        But given that most of FTX's tax bill is likely to be based on things that aren't real money (capital gains, but notionally realised gains from trading which have since vanished in the collapse given the clusterfuck of their accounting), then it's of very little consequence to the overall economy. They'd probably prefer that private individuals get their deposits back out, even if the Govt hasn't underwritten them like FDIC insured bank deposits. In the overall picture, they'll probably collect CG on a bunch of those creditors as well when they get their money back givent he current "value" of certain coins.

        1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

          Re: How does the saying go?

          Well, so says the far-right/magic-money-tree mob. No reputable economist - hell, not even Marxist 'economists' - believes any such thing, because it's absurd nonsense invented to justify the treatment of Jews in 1930s Germany.

          1. rg287 Silver badge

            Re: How does the saying go?

            Intriguing as to how you connect MMT to the far right, given that most of MMT's prescriptions (where they go past the basic description of the economy as it is) are pretty left-wing - job guarantees, robust social security, public transit and infrastructure. In any case, the latter is mostly Kelton/Deficit Myth rather than "core" Modern Monetary Theory.

            In any case, I'm not really describing MMT - I'm just describing what Keynes knew in the 1930s when FDR (Far D. Right?) dragged the US out of depression, and what Kennedy knew in the 60s when the US was writing blank cheques (and nobody cared).

            It's weird how economies tend to do really well when Governments spend money and pour liquidity into the economy (whether for wars, Space Races or anything else) and then crunch when you get some idiot who skipper Macroeconomics 101 treating Government spending like a business and talk about "strict fiscal rules", impose austerity and give out of load of guff about credit cards and "living within our means".

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      I wish I could tell the government that I'm only going to pay 4% of my taxes and not get arrested for it.

      Just set aside several million for fighting them in court.

      (And, yeah, it is nice to be a corporation. But it's difficult to find clothes that fit.)

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        "But it's difficult to find clothes that fit."

        I'm sure they aren't worried that SBF's clothes fit very well or not.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      "Man, it must be nice to be a corporation; I wish I could tell the government that I'm only going to pay 4% of my taxes and not get arrested for it."

      It's easy. There's just that prison stay you might not want to be lumbered with.

  3. Ianab

    I have to think the original tax assesment was based on SBF's huge but imaginary profits?

    When the dust settles and there is actually only just enough funds to pay back debtors, then the real profit, and hence tax liability, is MUCH lower.

    1. GraXXoR Bronze badge

      The fact is millions were siphoned off by their top brass. So theoretically lost tax here should mean more tax elsewhere.

      Have to follow the (imaginary) money.

  4. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    So instead of accepting $200 million, why not say, OK, liquidate the entire firm, get your $16 billion, pay back all of the customers there $11 billion, and then the Government walks away with the remaining $4-5 billion.

    It's not like FTX needs to keep operating as a going concern, after all the sh&te they've pulled...

  5. Natalie Gritpants Jr

    Tax man should take it all

    As a lesson for the crypto bros; lower government debt for a while; and we can all get cheaper GPUs

    1. David Hicklin Silver badge

      Re: Tax man should take it all

      > Tax man should take it all

      Problem is as hinted in FTX's argument, those billions of $ will rapidly shrink to be consumed by the courts etc

      Of course the IRS will get tax from them, so maybe not so bad an idea!

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