Hubble plays spin the bottle with last few gyros

The Hubble Space Telescope (HST) has again suspended science operations due to an ongoing gyroscope problem. NASA reported that the instruments were stable and described the spacecraft as being in "good health" after it dropped into safe mode following "faulty telemetry readings" from one of the gyroscopes. The HST, a NASA …

[Doctor Syntax]

Given the current interest in developing systems to de-orbit or alternatively to boost orbits perhaps it's time to look at launching an add-on that would both prolong Hubble's orbiting life and take over the the role of the failed gyros. It would prolong its life without requiring a manned mission and serve as a technology demonstrator for one of the commercial companies. As Hubble and Webb complement each other keeping Hubble operational would be like a worth-while thing to do.

[Roland6]

Additionally, if we really are going to have a permanent presence in space eg. man on Mars, we need to both massively improve the longevity of parts and get better at. Maintaining stuff. Hubble and ISS are good testbeds.

[John Robson]

The last shuttle mission left a "grappling" component specifically to allow for future missions.

[Mike 137]

"One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

How's that for cunning engineering? Ideally uses six gyros, but can work with one. Hats to be taken off all round.

I only wish our 'consumer' tech came anywhere remotely near this for resilience.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

I doubt many consumers would be prepared to pay for that.

In fact, I suspect that it would be frowned upon by legislatures as being anti-competitive. After all, how would western economies grow if the stuff we bought today served us for 30-40 years? </sarcasm>

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

Old stuff can last if maintained, especially if designed to BE maintained. Long story follows.

I just got my natural gas in-ground-pool heater -- like an old pilot-light millivolt furnace but to heat flowing water, not air -- working again after three tries this year.

It's between 25-30 years old -- and looks it, being exposed to weather 24/7. It seems to be more finicky to start every year, and it's always junk in the pilot light (gas nozzle). Once I get that going, it's a stable workhorse all summer long. It's outlived TWO vinyl liners in the pool itself (we just replaced the second liner last August).

But I've learned a couple things this year, especially how to disconnect the igniter wire (and added an extra piece of heat shrink to prevent the eventual short at a weak spot). Maybe in the fall, I'll completely remove the pilot assembly (nozzle, igniter, thermopile, bracket, gas tube) and make sure it's all clean and dry before putting it in a plastic zip-bag for the winter inside the house. No spiders and no winter junk -- should be easier to start in the spring after reassembly. If it lasts another 15 years this way, it'll be "north of 40" and we can replace it the same time as the next liner. By then, I might be able to afford replacing the whole shebang -- pump, sand tank filter, heater, liner, and winter safety cover. It'll be like a whole new pool before we start having grandkids. Hope my current pool service is still in business by then!

(A couple years ago I refurbished the steel "spring" stand for the diving board -- full grind and repaint, with two coats of primer and four topcoats of glossy Rust-Oleum. The fiberglass board is doing fine, and the stand and stainless hardware should be good for the same 15 years or more. Might as well redo it in 2040 while getting the other stuff done.)

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

"Might as well redo it in 2040 while getting the other stuff done."

You do realise the replacements won't last as long, don't you?

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

If they last long enough, we'll sell the house anyway -- not my problem.

(Newer pool heaters are electronic-ignition -- no pilot. I won't say "issue-free"; just different issues.)

[Marty McFly]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

You missed an important component in your analysis.... YOU!

You have learned enough about the pool heater to be able to self-service and maintain it. A lot of DIY skills have been lost and the common modern solution is to "Call a guy". In turn that leads to "Call the guy every year" or "Just replace the unit with a new one".

I will agree that new stuff isn't made to last as long as the old stuff. But I will also submit there is also a trend toward full replacement as the default solution, versus repair & maintenance.

Cheers toward your ability, skill, and willingness to fix it yourself.

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

Thank you. Share one with me --->

Best of all: aside from the time-cost, I have all the basic tools on hand, so "fixing" it every spring is -- to the wallet -- free.

(Running it means also running the pump, which pulls about as much electricity (240VAC) as the air conditioner, plus the natural gas, both of which are decidedly not free. If I replace the pump, I'm going dual-speed or even multi-speed to optimize my energy use & cost. My electrician brother-in-law says I could do that with this pump and a cheap VFD from Amazon, but if I screw it up I could fry my working pump, multiplying my total costs for an "experimental" project.)

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

"But I will also submit there is also a trend toward full replacement as the default solution, versus repair & maintenance."

Yes, and purely on "cost" to the service guy/business. They want lots of quick jobs they can charge full call-out fee for, not long-winded "hourly-rate" jobs and anyway, they don't care so long as the customer is paying for the replacement parts in full + mark-up. It's win-win for the service guy/business. And, in some respects, a win for the customer if they get up and running with a "first time fix" and don't have to have some guy there all day finagling parts to fit or soldering in replacement components etc.

My gas heating boiler broke. Gas fitter tells me it's "the board" and it'll be £150 + call-out/labour, so more like £300 when all's said and done. So I did a bit of research, found it was common for a certain relay to stick. Found somewhere local that had one of a similar type in stock, bought for £2.50 and ran some sort wires to the relevance pins on the relay and hot-glued it in place, (proper heat-shrink over joints and everything, natch!) and it's still running 10 years later :-) Now, I also know there's a lot of people out there with no idea what a soldering iron is, never mind how to use one. I'd be up shit creek if it was something outside my skill-set and involved a heating boiler as winter is starting or some other device that needed fixing in a hurry.

[GlenP]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

Not quite resilience but my Dualit toaster is now around 20 years old. I've replaced a couple of new elements and fitted a new timer (none of this new-fangled pop-up nonsense), as the spares are readily available. Resilient and repairable consumer tech is out there, whether it's worth the cost in monetary terms is another matter.

[anothercynic]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

Same with my Indesit washing machine from 2003. It's now 21 years old, and the only thing I've had to replace was the door handle.

Every year it lasts, I celebrate. It still does the job, and if you look after your stuff, it will last too.

[Oh Matron!]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

My rowlett (RIP) toaster is exactly the same.It's had ONE set of elements in 20 years and the mechanism inside is astoundingly simple. It will still be going in 20 years

I occassionally look at the newer stuff in john lewis and it just looks garbage :-(

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: "One-gyro mode uses magnetometers, sun sensors, and star trackers for the failed gyros"

>How's that for cunning engineering? Ideally uses six gyros, but can work with one

Seems wasteful !

" engineering is the art of doing that well with one dollar which any bungler can do with two after a fashion" Arthur M. Wellington

ps It needs 3 gyros so had 6 - cos the call-out fee for replacements is rather high.

It can 'work' with one by basically arranging observations by waiting until they drift into view and then using the magnetometer to hold it still for a while and then use the last gyro to unload the magnetometer. It's like saying a car with no steering but a handbrake that can lock up one wheel is controllable

pps. you can't really add extra gyros, they have to be pretty much at the center to control the pointing. For all the talk of a service mission, it would be better to spend the money on a new cheaper telescope

ppps. that statement migtt also apply before it was launched

[steamnut]

Another refurb mission?

With SpaceX making launches more often than my local bus service, surely a refurb mission is possible at a lower cost than previously?

If everything else is still working well then a more up to date set of gyros could be swapped in?

Webb and Hubble area team and we need them both.

It would be a lot cheaper than building and launching a new Hubble; assuming that Congress would even vote for it.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Another refurb mission?

Do Space X make provision for the EVA needed for another servicing mission?

[frankvw]

Re: Another refurb mission?

If Musk would like to do the scientific community (and thereby all of us) a major favour, I'm sure he could easily use part of his $45bn payout to fund a refurb mission and rake in PR kudos for SpaceX at the same time. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Professur]

Re: Another refurb mission?

Easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it? The fact is another billionaire DID step up to the plate to pay for a service mission. Nasa said no.

[GioCiampa]

Re: Another refurb mission?

Paying for a mission is one thing (and NASA would happily have someone else save them millions of dollars to achieve a positive end result), but having the expertise to actually achieve it is another thing entirely.

"SpaceX have yet to perform a spacewalk from one of their capsules, and have only just developed its spacewalking suits, so NASA has no history on which to base future predictions of success." (paraphrasing Andrew Feustel, who performed three spacewalks to refurbish Hubble in 2009, and part of the NASA feasibility study team).

So, never say never, but it's not something that's going to happen any time soon.

[Nik 2]

Re: Another refurb mission?

SpaceX's normal rapid engineering approach isn't useful here. We don't have a collection of Hubbles for them to blow up, even if they do end up fixing the fifth one at a quarter of the cost of any other outfit.

Icon: Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly

[Ivan Headache]

Gyros

Just wondering, are these physical spinning gyroscopes or solid state laser things?

I though the concept of the laser gyros is that they would never wear out.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Gyros

No, chicken with Tahini sauce.

[Professur]

Done

The long and short is that Nasa administrators would be very happy to see a total failure of Hubble. It's far exceeded it's expected mission duration by several decades and while it's still very very useful, that's money they really want to spend on new toys. Public pressure was the only reason for the last servicing mission.

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Re: Done

I'm sure you can provide evidence for this outrageous assertion.

[Orv]

Re: Done

Congress determines NASA's budget priorities; they aren't necessarily free to just take money from one major project and apply it to another.