back to article Tesla slams advisors for not loving Musk's $44.9B payout

Tesla has slammed advisory firm Glass Lewis after its recommendation that shareholders vote against CEO Elon Musk's $44.9 billion pay package and the automaker relocation to Texas. The consultants' report was published earlier this week, and on Wednesday Tesla responded in a letter [PDF] sent to shareholders, accusing the …

  1. JWLong

    GIGO

    You get out what you put in..........

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: GIGO

      .. or who you let publicly control the show ..

      If I ever get super rich I'll probably be as visible as the late founder of IKEA.

    2. Snake Silver badge

      Re: GIGO

      My first thought, after reading the article, was "Musk has his nappy on and is all upset".

      Therefore, GIGO fits.

  2. bud-weis-er

    Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

    Musk is losing interest, BYD and others are eating their lunch, CyberTruck is a mess, others have better autonomous vehicles, the incumbents are finally getting their thumbs out of <redacted> and doing something with EVs, and the robotaxi / uber thing can be done by anyone.

    I own a model 3 and love it, but that's very different to Tesla and its future.

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

      If he loses this vote he might use it as an excuse to get out.

      Not sure about the legality, but if he shorted Tesla then dumped all his shares on the market at once causing the price to crash he'd make up for what he loses in the price drop from the short. That would be the sort of thing a petulant child like him would do to punish Tesla shareholders if they voted against him. Then he'd blame "woke" somehow as the reason he had to get out, and announce a big donation to Trump.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

        I think you his modus operandi and petulant child mode pretty much down, but it would get him sued to Mars and back (sorry) because I think there are rules against that if you're also on the board of the company.

        That said, there are now so many new EVs of other brands coming onto the market that the less then sterling quality of Tesla's output is now becoming a critical factor, and there's no sign that anyone is tasked with addressing that. Or even planning to have a look at it - it's essentially doing a Bo(e)ing.

        1. Casca Silver badge

          Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

          And they cant make money on selling carbon credits anymore.

        2. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

          Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

          Since when has there being rules against a thing bothered him? The number of run ins he's had with the SEC is way more than a responsible CEO should have in their entire career.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

        If he himself shorted stock before dumping a load this would be insider trading. For a start, as part of the management of a publicly traded company, he has to make his transactions public. Imagine the headlines "Musk shorts Tesla stock…".

        1. veti Silver badge

          Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

          Yeah, that dodge is so obvious, even the law is ahead of it. Not even Musk would be that brass-faced. At least, not when it means a serious prison term.

          He could sell his stock (which in itself would probably cause a price crash), and then talk down the company in exactly the same way as he's previously been talking it up. He'd take a hit from the sale, but at that point he might think it's worth it just to spite the shareholders.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

      "others have better autonomous vehicles"

      Tesla make autonomous vehicles?

      1. seven of five

        Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

        They can run into rescue vehicles and set fire to themselves - doesn't that count?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Honestly don't think Tesla will be around much longer in its current form

          I think that's just acceptable US driving habits.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cut and run?

    Take a lions share, announce Tesla is being bought by the Chinese and then retire to a secret lair?

    1. Casca Silver badge

      Re: Cut and run?

      Its elon. It wont be a secret lair. It will have neon signs and blaring horns.

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "it's curious that the firm is only quoted by the sentence"

    No, it's perfectly normal.

    When you want to cherry-pick and misrepresent what you wish to argue against, that is.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "it's curious that the firm is only quoted by the sentence"

      .. which is pretty much a given.

      I noticed that people like our work exactly because we're straight talkers and management insists on it. It takes a thicker skin, but the result is the kind of trust from our customers you simply cannot buy. That said, we solve problems. Few problems are solved by BS (plenty are caused by it, which keeps us well busy :) ).

  5. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Time to go Elon

    But if you hold TSLA then (this is not stock advice) please watch what is going to happen to Trump Media & Tech when Trump is allowed to sell his massive holding later this year.

    DJT will crash and burn. Any private investor still holding the stock will be wiped out. IMHO, something similar will happen when Elon gets fed up with Tesla and dumps his holding...

    From this side of the Atlantic (aka Europe) it seems that Elon is getting closer to the Convicted Felon, Trump. Perhaps (make it so) both will crash and burn? Then he'll have to find something else to hype up. Whatever happened to 'The Boring Company'?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to go Elon

      "DJT will crash and burn. "

      You have remarkable confidence in the American electorate, considerably more than I have. If The Orange Jesus (TOJ) gets elected, which seems probable, he'll pardon himself and find a way abusing his position to restore his personal wealth. Of course, if he's TOJ, his followers are TOJers, so there's one thing the international community can agree on.

      Not sure if that will be actually be understood internationally, but hey-ho.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time to go Elon

        The Orange God Emperor will rise again!

        His conviction will be overturned as it was a complete sham. You'd have thought that they would have learned from the overturning of both Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein's NY convictions and been more careful with Trump but the desperation to pin ANYTHING on him was just too great.

        1. Dave@Home

          Re: Time to go Elon

          "His conviction will be overturned as it was a complete sham."

          Is there a point of law that would show it's a sham, or is it just a feeling?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Time to go Elon

            Several.

            The reason they used to change the charge from a misdemeanour to a felony is on the supposed basis that he was concealing another crime.

            This other crime was never actually specified nor has he been charged with a crime relating to this payment.

            If the other crime really was election interference then that is a federal issue and not anything to do with the NY AG so there is a potential jurisdictional issue.

            Cohen is a well known liar and has been convicted of such. He also has an axe to grind and has previously said he is out to get Trump. The only proof they have that Trump told him to fake the invoices was his testimony. Nothing in writing, no audio, nothing.

            Stormy is also well known as a Trump hater and was basically extorting Trump via (and potentially with help from) Cohen and has made plenty of $$ from book deals and netflix from this.

            This might as well have been the trial of Captain Blackadder.

            Not properly disclosing campaign finance is what the Clinton campaign got fined for as they tried to hide the over $1 million in payments for the russian hoax dossier

            https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/30/politics/clinton-dnc-steele-dossier-fusion-gps/index.html

            The FEC investigated Trump over these payments and decided not to do anything.

            And catch-and-kill is a well used and not illegal tactic used by lots of people in the spotlight including the Biden campaign when they supressed the Hunter laptop story. Now that WAS election interference!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Time to go Elon

              "This might as well have been the trial of Captain Blackadder."

              Hold on, Trump could have taken the stand to speak in his own defence and answer questions, but chose not to. His counsel approved all members of the jury. He was found guilty, he is a felon. His out of court actions show no respect for US democracy, for the justice system, for the officials who make government work. His repeated dismissal of people who were (foolishly) loyal to him when he was president show him to be a vain, shallow narcissist, unable to take responsibility himself, and unable to trust anybody other than his revolting close family. You really think somebody like that is fit for ANY office?

              I can remember when the USA was internationally respected, had competent, safe leaders, supported by competent advisors. Now the country is a world laughing stock, as it prepares to elect one of two confused old men neither of whom display any credibility or competence. Worse, one of them is an abusive liar, a sex pest, a liar, a fraudster, a man who took state secrets to profit from them, a former friend of Epstein. And then the election debate is dominated by howling morons who have no grasp of reality, logic, fairness, democracy or due process.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Time to go Elon

                "His counsel approved all members of the jury"

                Incorrect. Each side is only allowed a certain number of objections when it comes to jury selection. It isn't a case of they approved all the members, they had to be selective on the ones they really disapproved of.

                And Trump taking the stand would have likely added nothing. The prosecution could have called him but they didn't.

                "Worse, one of them is an abusive liar, a sex pest, a liar, a fraudster, a man who took state secrets to profit from them"

                You describe Biden! Showering with his daughter, friends with the KKK, showing his ghost writer his secret docs...

                "howling morons who have no grasp of reality, logic, fairness, democracy or due process."

                Biden supporters and the TDS sufferers :)

                1. Just An Engineer

                  Re: Time to go Elon

                  "And Trump taking the stand would have likely added nothing. The prosecution could have called him but they didn't."

                  Wrong. The prosecution cannot call a defendant to testify. Only the defense can call the defendant. He is cannot compelled to testify against himself.

                  Speaking of the old Armchair Lawyer, it about all I have seen about this over the last 24 hours. Most of the "howling morons" only know about the legal system through their personal experience with it.

              2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: Time to go, democracy

                His out of court actions show no respect for US democracy, for the justice system, for the officials who make government work.

                So do the actions of the prosecutors and judge. But they have made government work, and damn the Hatch Act-

                The Hatch Act of 1939, An Act to Prevent Pernicious Political Activities, is a United States federal law. Its main provision prohibits civil-service employees in the executive branch of the federal government, except the president and vice president, from engaging in some forms of political activity.

                But that only covers the exec branch, not NY, but could get interesting when Trump appeals, and after November. But thus far, US Democratcy has got the result it was after, however briefly. Trump is now a convicted felon. The MSM is dutifully running that news front and centre. Next up, his sentence will be handed down on July 11th and the Democrats could potentially let Trump campaign from jail. Trump can of course appeal, probably on multiple grounds, but when those appeals will be heard remains to be seen. Other court cases are ongoing keeping Trump off the campaign trail, so scheduling might be a challenge.

                But the Democrats have managed to achieve something unique in US history, emulating a tin-pot dictatorship that locks up political opponents. It has demonstrated to the whole world how 'international rules based order' really works.

                I can remember when the USA was internationally respected, had competent, safe leaders, supported by competent advisors. Now the country is a world laughing stock, as it prepares to elect one of two confused old men neither of whom display any credibility or competence.

                One is certainly confused and incompetent, but the Democrats have determined to run him again. The other, the Democrats seem determined to prevent running by abusing democracy and the justice system to put him in jail. Biden had classified documents he wasn't entitled to retain, but was declared incompetent to stand trial. All hail the once and future chief.

                But this is where the blowback can only get worse. Plenty of lawyers have raised eyebrows over how this case was handled. The 'star witnesses' were Cohen, a convicted felon, perjurer and fraudster. Then Daniels, who was represented by Michael Avenatti when Daniels was shopping around her story. I'm suprised he wasn't called by the prosecution in this case given he had knowledge of the 'hush money' payments. He's easy enough to find being in jail, on multiple counts of fraud, theft and embezzlement.

                But the theatre of the absurd has completed it's first act. Trump guilty! Next act might be winning the appeal, and showing how the justice system was abused for political gain. Then possibly the third act, which will be charging, prosecuting and jailing the people that abused the justice system. Plenty of popcorn still to come.

                And then the election debate is dominated by howling morons who have no grasp of reality, logic, fairness, democracy or due process.

                Yes, well, TDS affects people that way. Trump is the greatest threat to Democratcy since those good'ol Southern Democrats started the Civil War. Plenty of US voters think this, and other cases agains Trump stink, but whether that will be enough for Trump to win in November remains to be seen. Then again, Biden may be down 17 electoral college votes from Ohio on account of not looking at the calendar. Ohio's laws state nominees need to be designated ahead of the elections, the Democrats missed the deadline. Oops..

                1. Claverhouse Silver badge

                  Re: Time to go, democracy

                  But the Democrats have managed to achieve something unique in US history, emulating a tin-pot dictatorship that locks up political opponents. It has demonstrated to the whole world how 'international rules based order' really works.

                  Don't forget they also wanted the ex-president's wife in line for that position. Something not unknown in such countries.

                  .

                  Still, my opinion of the American polity is so low anyway --- most American presidents since FDR have been deeply damaged individuals ( and the exigencies of that immensely powerful position no doubt damaged them further ) --- that however repellent Trump may be, he doesn't even sink to the level of most of his predecessors. And successor. And that's coming more from a comparatively leftist position.

                2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Time to go, democracy

                  "The Hatch Act of 1939, An Act to Prevent Pernicious Political Activities, is a United States federal law. Its main provision prohibits civil-service employees in the executive branch of the federal government, except the president and vice president, from engaging in some forms of political activity."

                  Ah, so you think Trump should be tried based on false claims of election fraud while he was still in office "in the executive branch" and even claiming he would refuse to leave office despite the election results? Good to know.

                  1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                    Re: Time to go, democracy

                    Ah, so you think Trump should be tried based on false claims of election fraud while he was still in office "in the executive branch" and even claiming he would refuse to leave office despite the election results? Good to know.

                    Nope. This is what you think, and what happens when you turn into a strawman as a result of TDS infection. The Bbc sort of explains-

                    Prosecutors successfully laid out a case Mr Trump was afraid Ms Daniels would fatally harm his 2016 presidential campaign by going public with an alleged sexual encounter, prompting him to pay her - then illegally hide the transaction.

                    34 counts of falsifying business records. No charges of election interference. In other news the SEC and GAAP announce that henceforth, all legal expenses must be itemised

                    I wonder if this years campaign trail will result in Dem rallies chanting "Lock Him Up!" and how the Reps will respond? The Rep chants of "Lock Her Up" were based on untested accusations, whereas this time around....

                    Well, there was Whitewater, or possible improper use of funds supposed to go towards the Clinton Library, or mishandling classified information and wiping servers with a cloth. Or there's the prospect of charging Biden with unlawful possession and storage of classified material. Or financial transactions between the Bidens. Or other stuff from the Biden laptop, that was previously officially denied. Hunter's prosecution is ongoing, but nobody has really started on the Big Guy. Who came out with another classic gaffe yesterday saying 'nobody is above the law'. Unless you're a party member in good standing.

                    So the circus will carry on. Given all the attempts to charge Trump with.. something, it's pretty certain there will be reciprocity, and the Democrats will learn about the Streisand Effect.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Time to go, democracy

                      The FBI did investigate Hillary and DID find evidence that personal devices and personal email addresses had been used for governmental business but decided it was not serious enough to go further. Hillary came oh so close to falling foul of the espionage act.

                      Now, paying Stormy wasn't illegal. Catch and kill with the media is not illegal. Getting the media to post articles saying nasty things about your opponents isn't illegal (cos Hillary did lots of it and it has been standard practice in US elections for decades). Falsifying business records is not a felony. Campaign finance violations are also not a felony. The Clinton campaign fell foul of this with their payments to Steele for his dossier. They also paid via a law firm. They just got a fine.

                      I seriously doubt Stormy could have changed the outcome of the 2016 election. Hillary is a nasty piece of work and was completely unsuitable for the job. She didn't bother to do much campaigning and relied on slinging mud which just made the Trump supporters vote harder.

                      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                        Re: Time to go, democracy

                        The FBI did investigate Hillary and DID find evidence that personal devices and personal email addresses had been used for governmental business but decided it was not serious enough to go further. Hillary came oh so close to falling foul of the espionage act.

                        This one is also in the news (if you can find it) on this side of the pond where the NYT is suing to see what Ursula von der Liar said to the CEO of Pfizer while she was personally negotiating one of the EU's biggest ever deals-

                        https://www.politico.eu/article/5-things-to-know-about-ursula-von-der-leyens-pfizergate-court-cases/

                        But proportionality might be trickier: Does that then mean the public should be allowed to access all of a politician’s private communications?

                        Judges are likely to adopt a more nuanced approach than a simple yes-or-no answer. “Perhaps the court will grant access to the texts, but only if it can be shown that the SMSes had an impact on the final decision,” said Couronne.

                        Which gets interesting because texts between her and Pfizer's CEO arguably weren't private, if they mentioned the deal at all. But this is much the same argument Clinton used to avoid releasing the contents of her email server. Don't mix business and pleasure, if you don't want the emails or texts turning up in court.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: Time to go, democracy

                          Ooooo.... I'd not seen that story!

                          If you are a high up politician, especially if you are at or very close to the top then pretty much all your communications should be public record. And I'm sure the member states of the EU would like to know how their tax money gets spent.

                          Most normal people can cope with using work email for work and home email for home. I would not email a supplier or customer from my personal email and I would not email friends from work. Yet Hillary was mixing potentially security sensitive topics with yoga bookings and arrangements for her daughters wedding.

                          1. Casca Silver badge

                            Re: Time to go, democracy

                            Then you dont know many "normal people"

                    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                      Re: Time to go, democracy

                      "Nope. This is what you think,"

                      No it's what I think you think. based on your own comments. If you think I don't think what you think you think is not incorrect, then maybe try to be more clear in your doublethink and doublespeak.

                3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Time to go, democracy

                  "The MSM is dutifully running that news front and centre."

                  Why specify the MSM? The SSM (Side Stream Media??) is doing exactly the same. Depending on bias, the SSM are more gleeful or mouth-frothing though, Are CNN and FOX MSM or SSM?

                4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Time to go, democracy

                  "Biden had classified documents he wasn't entitled to retain, but was declared incompetent to stand trial. All hail the once and future chief."

                  Typical. Start with a bit of truth then continue into The Big Lie to try to confuse and misdirect.

                  1. Casca Silver badge

                    Re: Time to go, democracy

                    He has taken leasons from trump. Thats why he accuse everyone of TDS...

                5. Casca Silver badge

                  Re: Time to go, democracy

                  And there is the TDS general of the forums. Defending trump like a cult member he is.

            2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Time to go Elon

              "Stormy is also well known as a Trump hater and was basically extorting Trump via (and potentially with help from) Cohen and has made plenty of $$ from book deals and netflix from this."

              So, just following the (published by DJT) Trump Playbook then?

        2. Gort99
          Windows

          Re: Time to go Elon

          The wack-a-doodle is strong in this one.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Time to go Elon

        "he'll pardon himself"

        Only if he picks up some federal convictions on the way. Everything I've read says that he's been convicted of state felonies which the US President can't pardon.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Time to go Elon

          Only if he picks up some federal convictions on the way.

          But election interference are federal crimes, falsifying business records are just misdemeanors. The US has gone very, very strange.

          1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: Time to go Elon

            No, as we've seen recently: election law in America is both state and federal. In fact, the recent SCOTUS decision about who can be on the ballot in any particular state, overturns decades of jurisprudence relating to states' rights and sets a precedent many Republicans might come to regret.

            He's now a convicted criminal: GUILTY.

            The New York case is very odd on the face of it, but well crafted and well prosecuted: he used campaign funds for personal interest. US campagin finance rules are ridiculously lax, but they are very clear on that. But the Georgia case, despite Fanny Willis' fannying about, is probably even stronger and the penalties even more severe. Good.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Time to go Elon

              "he used campaign funds for personal interest."

              This is what Hillary Clinton did and was investigated by the FEC. They fined the Clinton campaign.

              BUT your statement actually shows you do not understand the case.

              The charges against Trump were falsifying records NOT misuse of campaign funds.

              Both the misuse of campaign funds and falsifying records are simple misdemeanours. The dodgy bit is that they claim he did this to cover up another unspecified crime. He did not commit campaign finance violations as he was investigated by the FEC and they did nothing. Did he commit election interference? The Steel dossier could be classed as that too. The lack of this extra crime is the problem and will unravel the conviction.

              The other major difference being the Clinton campaign knowingly misused funds whereas with Trump it was Cohen who decided to pay off Stormy without any input from Trump and then reclaimed the money, along with more that he stole, by overcharging Trump for legal fees. There is no evidence apart from Cohen's verbal testimony that Trump instructed Cohen to pay Stormy or to bill back the payments as legal fees.

              1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

                Re: Time to go Elon

                The Donald has been proven to micromanage the finances of Trump inc. He agreed with Cohen to pay off Stormy. His agreement is implicit in the fact that he personally signed the checks to Cohen. Then Trump identified those payments in a way that makes Trumps claim that they were legal fee reimbursments.

                Trump can't have it both way. If they were truly reimbursments then Trump is guilty of falsifying Federal records that he once again signed. That is a more serious crime because when he signed the form relating to those payments to Cohen, Trump was POTUS.

                Heads NYC wins, Tails DOJ wins

                Either way Trump loses.

                May I humbly suggest that you listen to the Justice Matters podcast on YouTube. He explained the options very clearly to me.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Time to go Elon

                  "is agreement is implicit in the fact that he personally signed the checks to Cohen."

                  Uh huh, no. Trump personally signed ALL cheques that were from his personal account. That is pretty normal. You would not usually let someone else sign your personal cheques now would you?

                  Deborah Tarasoff testified that Trump personally signed all his personal cheques. Which raises another very important question the TDS sufferers are overlooking. These cheques to Cohen were from Trump's PERSONAL account. Not his business account.

                  Did he take campaign money and put it in his personal account just like Fani Willis has admitted to doing?

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Time to go Elon

              He's now a convicted criminal: GUILTY.

              Yes GUILTY! Let's move swiftly on to burning the witch. Nice caps. Nice demonstration of TDS..

              So, appeals. Isn't Trump entitled to those? And if successful, guilty could become NOT GUILTY.

              The New York case is very odd on the face of it, but well crafted and well prosecuted: he used campaign funds for personal interest. US campagin finance rules are ridiculously lax, but they are very clear on that.

              Uhuh. But that isn't what he was convicted for. He was charged with falsifying business records, misdemeanor. The DA tried to elevate those charges to felonies by saying this was in order to conceal a crime, yet he hasn't been charged or convicted of that underlying crime. A point the defence tried to make by calling a witness to explain that use of campaign funds in that way was not illegal at that time. The judge of course disallowed that witness.. Which is probably one of the grounds for appeal.

              But as usual, for many the fix is in. Here's a quote from the good'ol Bbc, still desperate for US views and ad revenue-

              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-69069142

              Trump falsely repeated claims his prosecution was politically orchestrated and that his trial was "rigged"

              So Trump announced his intention to appeal. This isn't mentioned in the Bbc's 'summary'. That appeal may find procedural errors and problems with the trial, and his conviction may be overturned. If that shows the prosecution was 'rigged', what does that do for what little is left of the Bbc's credibility?

              1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

                Re: Time to go Elon

                Legally, the jury found him guilty and he's now a convicted criminal. Of course, he recourse to appeals but, as things stand, he is GUILTY of the crimes of which he was charged. I expect more stuff to start sticking to him as a result even if fanbase still worships him. LOSER.

                I picked up the use of CAPITALS from the master himself.

      3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: he'll pardon himself

        Sorry, he can only do that for FEDERAL Convictions. The NYC case was at the state level. Only the Governor of New York State can pardon Trumpo. As the current one is a democrat that my friend ain't gonna happen.

        The same sort of thing applies down in Georgia. There, the Governor has no Pardon powers and the pardon board can only consider giving a pardon once 5 years of the sentence had been served.

        Trump likes to crow about 'States Rites' when it comes to robbing women of control over their bodies but when he needs it get himself out of clink then sorry... Donald, either get a MAGA friend to be elected as NY Governor OR Go to Jail,

        The majority of the world want you to go to jail.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: he'll pardon himself

          The majority of the world want you to go to jail.

          The majority of the world doesn't care, or is looking at the state of US politics and either laughing, or wondering what'll come next. Some of the most interesting interviews have been from migrants, who thought they were coming to the land of the free and fair. Not the kind of politics they left their home countries to escape. There are also events like S.Africa going to the ICC and charging Israel with war crimes. Or the ICJ ordering Israel to cease it's ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Those probably wouldn't have got this far with a strong US. But how is the US responding? Threats of sanctions and retaliation against the ICC and ICJ.

          A fine display of what 'international rules based order' means.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: he'll pardon himself

          "Go to Jail"

          Is that the likely sentence? What I've read suggests not. One of the options seemed interesting - supervised release. Trump subject to several years of supervision is an intriguing prospect although maybe not for whoever's given the task of supervising him.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: he'll pardon himself

            Is that the likely sentence? What I've read suggests not. One of the options seemed interesting - supervised release.

            I guess that's where it gets political. Absent concealing an underlying crime, falsifying business records is a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations expired anyway. Elevating the charges to make them felonies means there could be a custodial sentence, but the underlying crime wasn't charged. But we'll have to wait for July 11th to find out, and if that hearing is dragged out so Trump misses the Republican convention.

            But I kind of suspect the Democrats won't go that far. They have their result, ie Trump guilty and probably expect to lose on appeal. But the appeal is going to take time, and so for now, he is guilty regardless of how much the case stinks of political theatre and lawfare. I think that could get worse, if the judge decides to impose another massive fine. The last one bore no relation to the harm done, but served the purpose of forcing Trump to raise the money to appeal it. If they try the same stunt again, it could just amplify the Streisand Effect.

            Also a bit curious why Trump hasn't tried to have these SLAPP'd down. You can't get much more limiting public participation than trying to prevent an ex-President from running for re-election. Maybe team Trump decided it was better to answer the allegations and get them out of the way than leaving the doubt hanging over him.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: he'll pardon himself

              Maybe you missed the news but he's been convicted of 34 counts of felony, not misdemeanour.

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: he'll pardon himself

                Maybe you missed the news but he's been convicted of 34 counts of felony, not misdemeanour.

                Nope. But this is where the case is strange. The DA (should he change his name to Liberty?) elevated the charges to felonies by claiming they concealed some underlying crime. Various lawyers and legal experts have questioned if he can actually do this without charging the concealed crime. So in this case, alluding to the crime being 'election interference', but not attempting to prosecute that offence. It's also a bit odd that apparently 1 payment of hush money lead to 34 counts in the first place.

                1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                  Re: he'll pardon himself

                  There's this thing called reality. In your imagination he may have been convicted of misdemeanours because of the excellence of your legal arguments. In the reality of the court of law he was convicted of 34 felonies because of the excellence of the prosecution's legal arguments, the evidence and the judgement of 12 US citizens. They didn't listen to your arguments.

                  TL;DR He's a convicted felon and he can't pardon himself if he gets back into power.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: he'll pardon himself

                    "excellence of the prosecution's legal arguments"

                    Which amounted to 'Orange man bad!'. An NY jury would convict a ham sandwich if it belonged to a republican.

                    Believe this porn star who changes her story every time and believe this convicted liar as this time for sure he is not lying.

                    There was no evidence he did 'the crime' other than what Cohen claimed and Cohen has a huge axe to grind with Trump. Paying Stormy was not a crime. If it was election interference then why not charge it as such? As JE and others have said, the only reason it was bumped to a felony was due to this claim it was to cover up another crime but that other crime has never been detailed and he has never been charged.

                    The number 34 is only due to them counting every single bit of paper as a separate crime. The reality is each one is just 1/34th of misdemeanour. If you get charged with jay walking they don't charge you for each footstep you took to cross the road.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Time to go Elon

      "the Convicted Felon, Trump."

      I wonder if this years campaign trail will result in Dem rallies chanting "Lock Him Up!" and how the Reps will respond? The Rep chants of "Lock Her Up" were based on untested accusations, whereas this time around.... :-)

  6. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

    Its kind of sad, that not once i have ever heard how racist it is that only the ceo gets abonus and nobody else at the company is entitled to anything.

    Here goes the down voters. Thats america for you, they are so brainwashed there they cant even be honest about this two teir society problem, its the 1860s all over again.

    Today slavery is supposedly banned, but today we still have it in america, its just the slaves get a minimum while the masters get crazy amounts more. American culture even justifies this with their constant worship and applause for ceos and founders with fake attributes just like the fake claims by white slave masters and racial superiority. Today its not racial superiority its corporate superiority, again both are based on fake attributes and unscientific statements.

    Just like 1860s its the real support is by religious nutters in the american south, Trump and his orange puppets and the religious sytem of the american south today and back then as well.

    Nothing really changes...only the actor's names.

    1. DJO Silver badge

      Today slavery is supposedly banned

      In many countries yes, in the USA it is just restricted, slavery is legal if it is part of a punishment in prison.

      As for bonuses, if the board thinks it should get a bonus then every single employee and contractor should get the same proportional bonus as they are the ones who did the actual work. Restricting bonuses to the C suite should result in something like a 500% penalty. Tax greed!

    2. RPF

      Tye 1860s may have been racist, but this has nothing to do with racism. Just because Elon is a rich white guy, that does not automatically make this racist. That is just a nasty little insinuation.

      1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        You are a fool if you think that American south slavery was about racism.

        Racism was just the stupid brainwashing excuse given to idiots who believe that. IT was always about the money, it was not simply a tool to punish those evil godless blacks.

        ~

        RPF: Just because Elon is a rich white guy, that does not automatically make this racist

        Cow: Its race taken to the extreme, corporate america has invented a new race call corporate management. Remember theres no such thing as race in the dna, its all fabricated attributes.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "how racist it is that only the ceo gets a bonus"

      I'm confused here. Please fill out your logic a bit more. Is the CEO of a different race to everyone else in the company? If not, what are you saying?

      1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        What is "race" ?

        Is there a physical trait of some kind that can be tested in a lab or is race simply a made up label ?

        Different cultures group peoples from the world in different ways. Americans think race is about skin colour, in india a 100 yearsthey had their caste system even though they theyy themselves will tell you they are all the same race of indians.

        My point is there is no such thing as race, it can be whatever you like. Corporate America pretends that the label ceo and founder and leadership somehow is special, just like 1860s American south, made up qualities that white gentlemen were special. In both cases both groups of people think they are special and entitlted to everything while they ruin the lives of every body else with their greed.

        So what exactly is race ?

        Its anything you want it to be, and i questioning the inequality of american culture to pretend that corporate leaders are a special breed of humans...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I guess "lizard" would technically be a different race.

    4. markr555

      Eh?

      What the heck are you on about? Theres a huge inequality there, but it's not a racial inequality!

      1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: Eh?

        Sure it is... theres a new race call corporate leadership...

        Remember the concept of race in all its forms is purely in the human mind and not physical thing.

        1. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          Thank you down voters, your vote shows that you have been brainwashed by american media.

  7. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Not JB

    J.B. Straubel is no more a founder than Elon. At the most, Ian Wright might be able to make a claim, but Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard are on the official documents from 2003 that formed the Tesla Motor Company.

    The biggest damning of Elon's bonus package was insufficient information being given to shareholders and to a lesser extent, the BoD not negotiating Elon's demands in any meaningful way. The board is tied too closely to Elon for it to even be seen as being able to act on behalf of the other shareholders. Robyn Denholm's video begging shareholders to vote again to approve the scheme is filled with how it's very good for Elon, but thin on how, exactly, it benefits Tesla. The move from Delaware to Texas is a temper tantrum move by Elon to get his way since he probably believes that with so much economic activity by Tesla in the state, the courts would give more leeway or be pressured to look the other way as cases against Tesla and Elon are brought before them. There's a lot of cases too, not just the more spectacular ones that get into the news.

    One claim that Elon can make is he has sold more Tesla stock than anybody on the planet. If the BoD had more stock, they'd be closer behind. None of them are buying and some are cashing theirs out as soon as it vests.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Not JB

      J.B. Straubel is no more a founder than Elon. At the most, Ian Wright might be able to make a claim, but Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard are on the official documents from 2003 that formed the Tesla Motor Company.

      Careful. Didn't Elon go to court to get a declaration that he founded Tesla? Just ignore any filings to the contrary..

      The biggest damning of Elon's bonus package was insufficient information being given to shareholders and to a lesser extent, the BoD not negotiating Elon's demands in any meaningful way. The board is tied too closely to Elon for it to even be seen as being able to act on behalf of the other shareholders.

      I think the most damning thing is it's $45bn. Well, +/- however the share price moves. But agree on there being no effective oversight on the board. It's where non-execs usually sit on renumeration committees, are supposed to be independent and protect the company and shareholder's interests. Which I'm not sure this award does because presumably it'll dilute existing shareholders, if the award is new stock.

      I also get the feeling there's a bit of a legal ponzi scheme going on. Musk has many ventures, but his worth is mostly his Tesla holdings, and he borrows heavily against that. SpacX just did another $500m debt round, and apparently that's a regular event to buy back stock so staff can exercise stock options. I hate to think how much debt the Musk empire has, and how big the margin call will be if/when Tesla's stock goes down. And there's a certain inevitability to that given the increased competition Tesla faces.

      The move from Delaware to Texas is a temper tantrum move by Elon to get his way since he probably believes that with so much economic activity by Tesla in the state, the courts would give more leeway or be pressured to look the other way as cases against Tesla and Elon are brought before them.

      I think it's more to avoid California's regulatory environment, and possibly Texas offering more incentives. AFAIK one of the attractions with California was they offered very generous EV credits, but those have now ended.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Not JB

        "Didn't Elon go to court to get a declaration that he founded Tesla?"

        Yes, he did. You just have to squint to make 2008 (when Elon put in money) look like 2003 (when the articles of incorporation were filed).

        "I think it's more to avoid California's regulatory environment, and possibly Texas offering more incentives."

        The move would be from Delaware to Texas. Tesla did move it's corporate headquarters in another tantrum move when Elon was unhappy that he wasn't allowed to run the Fremont factory durning lockdowns. He did restart without permission and got away with it. Officially, Tesla is a Delaware corporation. The tax and court systems are much more business friendly. The big bonus with the Delaware Court of Chancery is they understand big business, common practices, tax law as applied to nation and worldwide firms. There's no need to try and teach them things nor spend a lot of time fully citing other cases and showing common business/accounting practices since those references likely can from the Delaware Chancery Court to begin with. That's not to say that Texas doesn't know anything about big business, but they don't have the same level, size and depth. I don't think that Elon has considered what might happen if he has a case in a Texas court with the attorneys on the other side used to the rigors of presenting cases in Delaware. They could make Elon/Tesla look like a kid playing with mud pies in a world of suits and ties.

        You get the justice you can afford. The more money you have (or control over same) the fewer laws there are that apply to you.

  8. b0llchit Silver badge

    Brick valuation

    Bricks are stationary and are valued very highly. I'm waiting for Tesla to collapse and all their connected cars to become highly valued bricks.

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Brick valuation

      "I'm waiting for Tesla to collapse and all their connected cars to become highly valued bricks."

      Tesla seems to have started the tethering of cars to the manufacturer by equipping them with things that can only be updated and maintained by the OEM. It's not so much that the car will be bricked, but it could get highly annoying. Samcrac bought a Model S at auction and the car was telling him it needed to have the traction battery fuse replaced. The fuse was fine, this is a regular maintenance item, apparently, and cost around $300 parts and labor. As an EE, this really has me scratching my head. I've never encountered any situation where a fuse is replaced on a schedule. Certainly nothing I've ever designed would need that. Of course, once Sam got the car registered in his name with Tesla, the car would handle making an appointment at the nearest service center for him. (more alarm bells ringing). The car needed to have the front lower control arms replaced which is very typical for a Tesla. A few grand at a Tesla service center and a $150 kit online if you want the parts to do it yourself. The car was showing tire rubbing on the plastic in the wheel well and that's a problem as right behind that on the left side is a major HV connection that could be damaged (again, WTF!). Why would a critical electrical junction be placed immediately downstream of a tire?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Brick valuation

      "I'm waiting for Tesla to collapse and all their connected cars to become highly valued bricks."

      Would never happen. Investors would get burned, because the company's market value is built on sand, but there's plenty of value in the business when the equity holders and junior creditors are wiped out. Assume the Tesla bubble bursts, and the value reverts to fundamentals based on motor industry norms, the business is still worth a third or a quarter of its current value based on earnings. Factor in the bad smell and uncertainty of a CEO and board exit and maybe down to $100bn - that's still lots and lots of value, meaning somebody will swoop in to take it and run it as a business.

  9. Groo The Wanderer Silver badge

    "...and that one job is to polish Mr. Musk's ample posterior as hard as you can. So get down on your knees, pucker up, and get busy or you're fired."

  10. Bebu Silver badge
    Windows

    We hired you for one job...

    Tesla board: We hired you for one job...

    Glass Lewis: Yes. We don't want it to be our last job either.

    Trust, integrity, honesty, ethics, etc fled the corporate boardroom decades ago and are concepts now so unfamilar they may as well be rendered in Latin.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We hired you for one job...

      Trust, integrity, honesty, ethics, etc ........are concepts now so unfamilar they may as well be rendered in Latin.

      If they are, then Boris Johnson, he's your man!

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: We hired you for one job...

      Trust, Integrity, Honesty and Ethics

      Bunch of hasbeens. Probably the least successful law company ever!

  11. Jedit Silver badge
    Pirate

    "Tesla has slammed advisory firm Glass Lewis"

    The bootnotes today appear to be notes of who's licking them.

  12. KSM-AZ

    Any agreement should be terminated if it works out differently than my expectation.

    I'm pursuaded to stay on. We agree on a compensation package based on various performance metrics of the company over the next 5 years. All the metrics are exceeded. Now I'm not going to pay you because I don't think you deserve it because I think you are a wacko and do things I don't like.

    Sounds OK to me. Since in hindsight you managed to reach the goals I thought were grotesquely unobtainable, I need to be able weasel out of the deal somehow.

    1. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: Any agreement should be terminated if it works out differently than my expectation.

      As I'm sure you're aware, this has only been raised for review because a court rejected it, because, according to the court, the original award was given to Musk by biased parties. So it's more that I decide to give you an award to be paid for by someone else, you meet my terms, and you therefore get to take their money. They didn't get to vote on it then, so they get to now.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Any agreement should be terminated if it works out differently than my expectation.

      It's as well to remember that a company's money belongs to the shareholders, not to the directors. Unless the shareholders agree to it the directors were amiss in making the offer in the first place.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Any agreement should be terminated if it works out differently than my expectation.

        "Unless the shareholders agree to it the directors were amiss in making the offer in the first place."

        It wasn't an offer by the BoD TO Elon, it was Elon demanding the compensation and needing the board to approve it. The shareholders were not told all of the details (as interpreted by Judge McCormick). Shareholders have to rely on the BoD to give them full and accurate information in a summary as the raw data can be rather sensitive and detrimental to publish.

      2. CowHorseFrog Silver badge

        Re: Any agreement should be terminated if it works out differently than my expectation.

        Yeh just like the american government belongs to the american people... and not corporate leaders.

  13. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    [using] faulty logic

    Just like "Autopilot"

  14. robert lindsay
    Mushroom

    And this is the same guy whois backing a man who has said he would ban electric car sales.

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