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back to article HMRC must grow 'intelligent client' function to sort out post-Brexit tech issues – watchdog

The UK's public spending watchdog is warning that the nation's tax collector needs be become an "intelligent client" in its handling of tech service providers contracted to create a "single trade window" for post-Brexit border arrangements already beset with delays. HMRC has contracted Deloitte and IBM to realize its plans for …

  1. xyz Silver badge

    What could possibly go wrong...

    Answers below....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Re: What could possibly go wrong...

      @xyz

      What could go right. See a lot of white space

      1. gandalfcn

        Re: What could possibly go wrong...

        "What could go right." We get blue passports and bendy bananas. We also have to comply with EU regs

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Pint

    Fujitsu

    > Fujitsu was handed a £168.8 million ($214 million) contract to keep the old system up and running.

    Good job they've not got a track record of completely fucking everything up.

    1. NotRealUser

      Re: Fujitsu

      Not strictly true, the £168m was for VME as a whole of which CHIEF was about 50% of the bill. And VME is proprietary to Fujitsu so HMRC didn't have much choice.

  3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Usual suspects or NAO can do.

    What is the point of NAO. They don't look deep enough at problems and seems like just wave things through to go onto the next thing to wave through.

    Their recommendations are meaningless, because they don't look at root cause.

    It's like you built a house on a swamp and asked for an audit and auditors come back with a report that says that the house is tilted by 15 degrees to the right. That's basically what NAO is doing.

    Hopefully the next government will either scrap this yet another pointless department taking tax payer money for legitimising waste or deeply reform it so it has teeth.

    1. IGotOut Silver badge

      Re: Usual suspects or NAO can do.

      So scrap it and then never report on or investigate government overspending again?

      Sounds like a well thought out plan.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Usual suspects or NAO can do.

        Are they really investigating?

        Maybe they should start with investigating themselves properly.

        That said, I also wrote:

        or deeply reform it so it has teeth.

        NAO in its current form is not fit for purpose.

  4. Tron Silver badge

    There will be no manual back-up.

    So every time this unified pile of crap fails, absolutely everything will stop.

    It's hard enough just getting mail in across borders now, and too much 'tracked' stuff is vanishing. Scale that up to imports and exports in general...

    The only Plan B they appear to have is to use emissions rules to limit traffic at Britain's ports, taking the strain off the system and killing what is left of the economy.

    The NI border fudge has cost UK taxpayers over half a billion over the last 4 years. [Also NAO].

    Nobody is allowed to report on the economic damage caused by Brexit (is there a D Notice?). At least the NAO can publicise the costs.

    Anyone seen a 'Brexit bonus' yet?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There will be no manual back-up.

      o Blue Passports.

      o Pint Glasses.

      o Happy Brexiteers no longer blaming the EU for the UK's homegrown fuckwittery.

      1. H in The Hague

        Re: There will be no manual back-up.

        "o Pint Glasses."

        Funny thing is, I'm sure at least one pub in The Hague serves Murphy's Red in CE-marked pint/half pint glasses.

        1. gandalfcn

          Re: There will be no manual back-up.

          Funny thing, they are present around the world. Now how about pint wine bottles?

      2. gandalfcn

        Re: There will be no manual back-up.

        It wasn't pint glasses it was pint bottles of wine.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There will be no manual back-up.

      Anyone seen a 'Brexit bonus' yet?

      CodeJunky, but he doesn't want to share...

    3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: There will be no manual back-up.

      Anyone seen a 'Brexit bonus' yet?

      All big consultancies operating in the UK as it made IR35 changes that remove competition possible.

    4. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: There will be no manual back-up.

      > Anyone seen a 'Brexit bonus' yet?

      Well those IT people working on STW see theirs every month….

    5. Johnlandseer

      Re: There will be no manual back-up.

      Brexit bonus - absolutely.

      People tend to conflate what Brexit was about - mainly because they fail to understand what the EU has morphed into. It's essentially a political & regulatory behemoth & has moved consistently in this direction for over 20 year's - especially since the Euro was born with the signing of the Maastricht Treaty.

      The 2nd order of the EU was about trade & how it could support both German & French manufacturers & farmers.

      The UK was a late entrant in 1972 & had little impact on the initial rules & set up of the then Common Market.

      Moving on 45 years, our relationship with the EU was at best fractious, at worst, abusive as we had little love of the CAP/or fisheries,the European parliament or the euro.

      In many ways Brexit simply stopped a historic anomaly in its tracks.

      Looking back - Germany & France ( inc Greece, Italy & Spain) seem to be basket cases - especially France & Italy with no growth for over 20 years.

      We've saved £45bn in 3 years for not paying membership fees plus, we're £80bn better off for not having to pay for a corrupt COVID recovery fund - with it's 300 fraud cases going on.

      The Brexit bonus isn't just economic - we're about to go slightly left of centre when the EU is fighting a far right uprising with increasing social tension ( look at France).

      Brexit is a long process - trade is a relatively small part of the equation.

  5. Bebu Silver badge
    Windows

    What was it? A blue parrot?

    No. Norway or nothing. That was it. The UK has had a decent serve of nothing and I suspect is now pining for the fjords.

  6. Andy 73

    Oh well

    Anyone who has recently tried to post goods into the EU, or dealt with pan-European VAT collection will be sharply aware that this whole area has been a disaster zone for years..

    They'll also be aware that posting into somewhere as distant as Australia or as fragmented (from a taxation point of view) as America is still twice as fast as dealing with Austria for exactly the same reasons.

    There was a brief opportunity to admit that bureaucracy had become unnecessarily complex (and entirely self-serving) in this area, and to make clear that minimising the friction when importing goods was only beneficial. However, it appears we missed the opportunity and are now committed to adding a few layers of inefficiency and governmental IT-chaos to the whole process.

    It seems that some people in Government are completely committed to trying to be 'little Europe' in their public services when we are essentially just a single country with a single taxation system and border to manage. Then they complain that there has been no "Brexit Bonus"... the lack of self-awareness is impressive.

    As for the actual implementation, of course it's no shock that the civil service has feet of clay and the memory of a goldfish when it comes to large-scale IT projects. The fact that we're not far from ten years notice that this modernisation was going to be required (and would have been needed regardless of the Brexit vote) is perhaps more shocking....

    And the pressure to modernise is huge, right across the board - global trade is simply a fact of life now, and an absolute requirement if we wish to keep our economy running. As another example The Post Office should be leading the way on international goods transfer (we're a damn island nation, it's one of the things we need to be good at), and yet...

    It's almost like this government has never done business in their lives.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh well

      Is there still a thing as the Post Office delivering goods?

      I thought Royal Mail was on the verge of being bought by a Continental tycoon?

      Otherwise, there is still DHL, FexEx, UPS...

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: Oh well

        And there is still no such thing as a Fish & Chips scented stamp, when the Bloody Frogs have one for Baguette!

      2. Andy 73

        Re: Oh well

        > Otherwise, there is still DHL, FexEx, UPS...

        We have a publicly owned organisation that should be providing a core competency for effective international trade, but it's ok if they don't because we can rely on a bunch of American companies instead? (Good luck with that by the way, they each have their own circles of hell for customers to dwell in).

        1. gandalfcn

          Re: Oh well

          Royal Mail is not a publicly owned organisation it is owned by International Distributions Services. In April 2024, EP Group (another company controlled by Daniel Křetínský) offered to buy the 72.5% shareholding in the company that Vesa Equity Investment Sarl does not already own.

          "a bunch of American companies." Isn't that the Tory plan? Sell everything to or give preference to their mates across the pond. like the NHS.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh well

        @ wouldn't you know it - a/c

        Yes, they deliver our products to customers, both in the U.K. and the e.u. (Yes, I know)

      4. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Oh well

        Well going back to the early 1990s and there was an opportunity for Royal Mail to go international - a joint venture with a European post office, the Tories prevented it out of dogma, can’t have a state owned business becoming a commercial success and out performing private enterprise…

    2. gandalfcn

      Re: Oh well

      It''s almost as if you were talking about reality.

  7. captain veg Silver badge

    Single Trade Window

    Is that like lunchtime at the Post Office where there's a massive queue for the sole open counter?

    -A.

    1. Ken G Silver badge

      Re: Single Trade Window

      I thought that was the capacity planning requirement - must be able to handle a single trade within a 24 hour window.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Folding??

    Quote: "....underestimate the complexity of what is required...."

    (1) The Agile Manifesto

    (2) "user stories"

    (3) "minimun viable product"

    (4) Two week sprints

    (5) "product owner" -- who would that be?

    Yup....a wall covered with yellow stickies, a "product owner", no idea what "viable" means..........

    How long do you wait........till it all gets cancelled.......and some other "consultants" get another million pound contract?

    Yup.....Fortnum and Masons shopping bags full of folding...........

    1. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: Folding??

      You forgot:

      (6) Doing nothing other than what you planned for that sprint, lest you bugger up your magic fairy story point quota, irrespective of how urgent the suddenly apparent but unplanned need, and,

      (7) Rigidly applying this so-called methodology always, even when it makes absolutely no sense from the point of view of anyone other than project managers*.

      Agile, my arse.

      -A.

      *Project managers, eh? Where did they come from?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Folding??

        captain veg: "Agile, my arse."

        Sir Humphrey: "Taxation isn't about what you need. The Treasury doesn’t work out what it needs and then think how to raise the money. It pitches for as much as it can get away with, and then thinks what to spend it on."

  9. Blank Reg

    Would an 'intelligent client' ever hire IBM to build a large government IT system given their wonderful track record of buggering up so many similar projects?

  10. gandalfcn

    " to create a "single trade window" for post-Brexit border arrangements already beset with delays." It would be simpler, cheaper, quicker and better for trade to join the Single Market, like Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. But no, lets make life more expensive and difficult because of (checks notes) bananas and blue passports.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @gandalfcn

      "It would be simpler, cheaper, quicker and better for trade to join the Single Market"

      It would be even simpler, cheaper, quicker and far better for trade to reduce the complexity of importing to the UK.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Oh. Are we not in the Single Market? How strange ....

      "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market." Arch-Brexiteer and unelected bureaucrat Daniel Hannan, 12 May 2015

    3. Ken G Silver badge
      Trollface

      quicker?

      I think you've a few decades of bridge building before that happens and IBM are better at building systems than your government are at building bridges.

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