back to article AWS to pump billions into sovereign cloud for Germany

AWS is to invest €7.8 billion in the AWS European Sovereign Cloud in Germany and make the first AWS Region in the State of Brandenburg available to all customers by the end of 2025. The move is the latest effort by US tech giants to retain revenue from the lucrative European market without running afoul of local regulations …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Without a complete firebreak to put the entire operation out of Amazon's control having a EU location and employees is just a whitewash.

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      @Doctor Syntax

      "Without a complete firebreak to put the entire operation out of Amazon's control having a EU location and employees is just a whitewash."

      If the EU wishes to wall itself off further then yes. However the EU version of facebook and youtube would probably be the resulting state.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: @Doctor Syntax

        Why are you talking about YouTube and Facebook consumer offerings when the story is about Amazon offering cloud services to businesses and governments?

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: @Doctor Syntax

          @Dan 55

          "Why are you talking about YouTube and Facebook consumer offerings when the story is about Amazon offering cloud services to businesses and governments?"

          Because I was responding to Doctor Syntax about effectively an EU only solution not Amazon. Dont worry your head about it.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: @Doctor Syntax

            In other words, you didn't understand what article or the post you were replying to were about.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: @Doctor Syntax

              @Dan 55

              "In other words, you didn't understand what article or the post you were replying to were about."

              Seriously dont hurt your head trying to understand. Its obviously against your capacity to do so either ideologically or intelligently.

              1. Dan 55 Silver badge
                Happy

                Re: @Doctor Syntax

                I'm game. Explain your reasoning; how you got from the article and the OP to your first reply. No rush, there's plenty of time show all your working out.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: @Doctor Syntax

                  @Dan 55

                  "I'm game. Explain your reasoning"

                  Sure. The EU is (for reasons that can be seen as justified) trying to exercise the American technology companies through privacy concerns. The 2 examples I gave being the EU version of youtube and facebook (or was it a version of twitter? I might have to check that) which of course fell with very few customers and not even a blip compared to what they were trying to clone (with added protections).

                  Doctor Syntax makes an interesting comment (which is believably correct, I dont dispute that) which suggests effectively not Amazon providing the service to be separate of the US beast. I pointed out that an EU clone of the existing successful US service would probably go the same way.

                  I really dont know how you didnt understand it the first time, I thought it was very clear.

                  1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                    Re: @Doctor Syntax

                    I really dont know how you didnt understand it the first time, I thought it was very clear.

                    Well, because we're talking about cloud platforms sold to business and governments in EU countries which may be subject to having data seized by US intelligence and law enforcement bodies without having to follow any legal process within the EU countries.

                    Different to social networking sites aimed at end users which is (possibly) protected by the EU-US Data Privacy Framework.

                    But very good, you get a gold star for participating.

                  2. ThatOne Silver badge
                    WTF?

                    Re: @Doctor Syntax

                    > The 2 examples I gave being the EU version of youtube and facebook

                    Apples and oranges. YouTube/Facebook (or Twitter) are trend-dependent leisure media, and depend entirely on what's fashionable at a given time.

                    What we're talking here though, is about companies renting server space. That's (IMHO, you can disagree) a slightly different market, and there is no trend to follow, you just need to find the matching technical specs and a good price.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      GAIA-X is coming real soon now.

    3. Justthefacts Silver badge

      So what you want is…..Non-Amazon management, and non-Amazon processes? First obvious question: then where is the cost-efficiency at scale coming from (and therefore customer pricing)? At the end of this, any cloud services company including AWS is just a bunch of commodity servers in racks. All the companies have identical hardware, and near-identical cost of hardware. And you already *know* that the EU-based attempted competition for AWS is uncompetitive and nobody really uses them. Apart from EU departments and “Macron’s teachers pet” companies, who are just throwing other peoples money in the dumpster because they can. So, given that you know the company you’ve just described, has zero cost benefit against a dozen hobby companies that are already circling the drain of insolvency….how’s that going to work?

      Alternatively, and I think this is what you really want, please just be honest about it….you want Amazon corporate to buy $10bn of servers, and *give* them to some completely unrelated EU folks. Then, you want Amazon corporate to *give* said EU folks all the things that make AWS profitable, like CPU IP (Graviton), tools, software, business processes, software processes, logistics and business operating experience. Then you want Amazon corporate to not expect any profit back from this arms-length company. Basically, you just want Amazon to set up and gift EU a $14bn operating company that EU wouldnt know how to set up and run yourself, and then just walk away.

      Yeah. Now that we’ve put all the cards on the table, I think we can all see why that would be a No.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge

    This is where Microsoft were in Ireland before the CLOUD Act. The CLOUD Act was the result. Amazon know this. It's just smoke and mirrors.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      But if the EU agrees that the US is adequately safe then why does the data need to be in Europe?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Because the data is adequately safe for hosting cat videos but not adequately safe for businesses which value their trade secrets, medical data, or for governments.

        But even so hosting data inside the EU with a US provider offers no protection.

      2. I am David Jones Silver badge

        Because Schrems n+1 will show that the EU is wrong.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Ah, GDRP

    Nice to see that US multinational behemoths are bowing to the law of the land where they operate.

    I mean, sure, Redmond and Fruitzilla kowtow to Beijing but, hey, if you don't, you're either banned or the CEO goes to jail. Not fun, eh Cook ?

    There's no Congressional Hearing where El Zuck can pretend he gives a fuck and continue as before.

    So, given that the EU is still a market that is comparable to the US, with a bit of leeway as far as lobbying is concerned, they will make an effort.

    In this case, an effort of about $8 billion, to be able to continue to milk a market that is otherwise captive.

    Yeah, I think I'd do the same . . .

  4. Excused Boots Bronze badge

    Like all companies, Amazon’s primary interest is making money, So, hypothetically, if they were to set things up so that although it is ‘technically’ under their control, in practice, the operations and monitoring were entirely run by the local (German) providers?

    Now, let’s suppose that somewhere down the line, Amazon gets served with a secret FISA order to turn over data stored in said facilities? Amazon claims that it isn’t technically possible to do so as they aren’t in direct control of it. But, says the court, you own the facilities so can change things so as to give you the required access! OK, yes, replies Amazon, but this can’t be done without the corporation, or at least the knowledge of the local staff - sorry but it’s the way we designed the setup as it was the only way that the EU would permit it!

    Of course, the arrangements would need to be regularly checked and audited by a EU entity to ensure that changes aren’t being ‘sneaked in gradually’, but still!

    A case, maybe, where the simple desire to make money takes precedence over being able to obey possible Court orders in the future! And I suspect Amazon has more and better paid lawyers than the US government.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Amazon, being a US based company, is mandated to provide access.

      There is no way it would be impossible for their US tech people not to access the systems they are hosting.

      If they really want to comply, they need to split Amazon in a minimum of 2 legal entities without any link, one based in the USA where the local sheriff can get access to everything just by asking, and one in the EU where local enforcement will do the same.

  5. fg_swe Bronze badge

    Klaut

    The latest U.S. nonsense, too complex to secure. See recentt Office365 hack.

    Great sales scheme, though.

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