back to article Brexit border system outage puts perishable goods transport in peril

A power outage affecting one of the IT systems used to process imports to the UK has caused delays to perishable goods crossing the border, which businesses have described as a "disaster." At the UK's busiest crossing to continental Europe, dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post serving Dover and …

  1. Dan 55 Silver badge
    FAIL

    "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

    If the UK only started post-Brexit physical checks at the beginning of April, why not go back to letting lorries through until the problem is fixed instead of holding them all for a day and screwing up lorryloads of food?

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

      @Dan 55

      "why not go back to letting lorries through until the problem is fixed instead of holding them all for a day and screwing up lorryloads of food?"

      Well said. This is self imposed

      1. spacecadet66

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        > Well said. This is self imposed

        As is Brexit generally: modern Britain's most completely avoidable political fuckup.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

          @spacecadet66

          "As is Brexit generally: modern Britain's most completely avoidable political fuckup."

          I do agree. But I put that on politicians from both the EU and UK making the EU relationship so hated

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            But I put that on politicians from both the EU and UK making the EU relationship so hated

            The ones to really blame are UK politicians which blamed unpopular Whitehall legislation on the EU and claimed credit for popular EU legislation, together with British media which allowed that to happen. Besides that, Brexit was a purely British choice.

            As a continental, I can say only one thing positive about Brexit: Good Riddance.

            1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              As a continental, I can say only one thing positive about Brexit: Good Riddance.

              Funny, the Brits say the same thing about the EU. Agreement!!

              1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                Given the finely balanced decision in the first place there's no such thing as a Brit's view on the matter.

              2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                Some of the few ignorant and usually xenophobic who said that have gone silent these days.

                It's only the complete basket cases who still think that.

                1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
                  Facepalm

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  "Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist"

                  1. This post has been deleted by its author

                  2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    where did I mention the word "fascist"?

                    Oh.. It was an analogy? Do better.

                    But actually, anybody who is a xenophobe is a xenophobe, anyone who is a fascist is a fascist.

                    If people don't like the labels they justifiably get given, maybe they need to change their behaviour?

                    1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
                      Happy

                      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                      If you think what anybody cares about you calling them names on the Internet, maybe you should spend more time outdoors and outside of your echo chamber.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                        The Gammonati do.

            2. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              @A.P. Veening

              "As a continental, I can say only one thing positive about Brexit: Good Riddance."

              We are aware of that opinion, so yes good bye. Like some parasitic abuser we know the EU organisation only wanted us for what they could take. Good Riddance.

          2. UnknownUnknown

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            The regulations have just reverted back to what any 3rd party country has to deal with into the EU. This however is the other way into the UK.

            If common food standards were not being rowed back on, checks would not be needed - as within the Single Market that non-EU EEA members benefit from and the UK used to be an integral member of.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        I'm glad you've come to see Brexit for what it is.

        1. codejunky Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

          @Dan 55

          "I'm glad you've come to see Brexit for what it is."

          Easier to apply if we didnt self inflict problems? I pointed that out throughout the negotiations.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            "Gas, gas, gas!"

          2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            You can't shirk your responsibility by saying "this is not the brexit I voted for", or "this brexit wasn't negotiated correctly".

            Sure, in *your* brexit, everyone in the UK would now be millionaires, and the fact we aren't is anyones fault but yours, right?

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              @Jamie Jones

              "You can't shirk your responsibility by saying "this is not the brexit I voted for", or "this brexit wasn't negotiated correctly"."

              Who is shirking? The EU isnt the communist/capitalist, protectionist/trade, etc paradise people tried to believe in. The excuses to remain being anything from we must because its great to we must to fix it.

              "Sure, in *your* brexit, everyone in the UK would now be millionaires, and the fact we aren't is anyones fault but yours, right?"

              I am amused you make up my opinion so you actually have something to argue against but no. I voted leave because it was better for the UK than remaining. As is still the case.

              1. Jedit Silver badge
                Stop

                "As is still the case."

                OK, then, if we're so much better out of the EU it should be easy for you to provide a list of tangible benefits in leaving the EU that offset the £140bn wiped off the UK economy as a direct result of it.

                1. werdsmith Silver badge

                  Re: "As is still the case."

                  We’ll be back in EU before you get a credible answer to that one.

                  1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

                    Re: "As is still the case."

                    We’ll be back in EU before you get a credible answer to that one.

                    You are correct about that one and getting back in EU will take something like forever.

                2. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge

                  Re: "As is still the case."

                  Wow you people will believe anything, won't you?

                3. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: "As is still the case."

                  @Jedit

                  "OK, then, if we're so much better out of the EU it should be easy for you to provide a list of tangible benefits in leaving the EU that offset the £140bn wiped off the UK economy as a direct result of it."

                  I look forward to the amusement of that figure being analysed since it doesnt seem to reflect how the UK economy is doing. But I have answered your tangible benefits question many times with the so far irrefutable vaccine procurement. Also not being part of the covid bailout fund.

                  1. John Robson Silver badge

                    Re: "As is still the case."

                    "But I have answered your tangible benefits question many times with the so far irrefutable vaccine procurement."

                    What you mean the procurement which relied on us being part of the EMA?

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: "As is still the case."

                      @John Robson

                      "What you mean the procurement which relied on us being part of the EMA?"

                      No. The UK approved vaccines while the EMA took longer. If I remember right that was the issue ROI had when Northern Ireland was being vaccinated and they wernt. One politician suggesting going over the border and bringing back vaccine and the EU having a fit over the idea.

                      1. werdsmith Silver badge

                        Re: "As is still the case."

                        No EU country was obliged to partake in the vaccine procurement, any was free to do its own thing.

                        Back to zero.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: "As is still the case."

                          @werdsmith

                          "No EU country was obliged to partake in the vaccine procurement, any was free to do its own thing."

                          I am sure we have had this discussion a few times and you have been found wanting.

                      2. John Robson Silver badge

                        Re: "As is still the case."

                        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55163730

                        Nope - the EU regulation allowing emergency approval was still in force, it was being part of that framework which allowed us to act, nothing at all to do with shooting ourselves in the foot.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: "As is still the case."

                          @John Robson

                          "Nope - the EU regulation allowing emergency approval was still in force, it was being part of that framework which allowed us to act, nothing at all to do with shooting ourselves in the foot."

                          That goes back to the technicality that theoretically such could be done, yet it was brexit that made it politically impractical in the UK while other members ditched their plans and knuckled under the EU under pressure to show solidarity. Once the EU screwed up terribly members started acting but it was a bit late. Germany being the big one to break their 'agreement' not to negotiate with anyone the EU commission is negotiating with because the German voters were watching vaccine be shipped out to countries that bought it.

                    2. John Robson Silver badge

                      Re: "As is still the case."

                      The other really interesting thing here... is that you hold up the vaccine rollout... and nothing else.

                      Is that really the only benefit you can come up with?

                      You might want to come up with one which is actually tangible, and directly attributable to the act of national self harm that was brexit.

                      1. codejunky Silver badge

                        Re: "As is still the case."

                        @John Robson

                        "Is that really the only benefit you can come up with?" and "You might want to come up with one which is actually tangible, and directly attributable to the act of national self harm that was brexit."

                        I see you are trying to gloss over this absolutely demonstrated benefit of brexit but no.. hold your horses. Some die hard EU fanatics cant accept any benefit at all, that is why some idiots like to claim there are no tangible benefits. And so I have delivered one to you that has never been discredited and is in the living memory of almost everyone inside and outside the EU (and rest of the world).

                        This is effectively a delusion test. If you have to be so deluded as to deny such an absolutely real and recent example then you are too deluded to go any further. It is the brick wall that destroys the 'no tangible benefits' claim. And the further away from the event the more people try to revise the history of what happened to justify their 'EU can do no wrong' attitude. The EU factually makes mistakes, of course they do they are like any other government or group. But if you cannot accept the EU's flaws and still hold your opinion to want to be part of it then you are just a fanatical devotee.

                        So no lets not gloss over the brexit benefit to claim there is no brexit benefit.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: "As is still the case."

                          The EU may make mistakes (like allowing GB to join), but we are still waiting for ANY benefit from Brexit...

                          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

                            Re: "As is still the case."

                            The EU may make mistakes (like allowing GB to join), but we are still waiting for ANY benefit from Brexit...

                            The EU finally got rid of the obstructive UK.

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: "As is still the case."

                    "I have answered your tangible benefits question many times with the so far irrefutable vaccine procurement."

                    Give it a rest you credulous fool.

                  3. Patrician

                    Re: "As is still the case."

                    >"vaccine procurement. Also not being part of the covid bailout fund."

                    We were still in the EU at that time, thus proving that being out or in the EU made no difference; we were always able to procure our own vaccines and not be a part of the fund, but you know that, or should do, don't you?

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: "As is still the case."

                      @Patrician

                      "We were still in the EU at that time, thus proving that being out or in the EU made no difference"

                      At what point? We were in the transition period since voting leave in 2016 so which bit did you get wrong?

                      "we were always able to procure our own vaccines"

                      Technically yes. In theory. Less so in practice. But it does assume the UK gov being better run than all the member govs and the EU gov.

                      "and not be a part of the fund"

                      That is because we were outside the EU by that point

                      1. Patrician

                        Re: "As is still the case."

                        "At what point? We were in the transition period since voting leave in 2016 so which bit did you get wrong?"

                        As we were within the transition period we were still fully subject to all EU regulations.

                        "Technically yes. In theory. Less so in practice. But it does assume the UK gov being better run than all the member govs and the EU gov."

                        So you agree with me then?

                        "That is because we were outside the EU by that point"

                        As pointed out above, although we were in the transition phase, we were still completely subject to all EU regulations; but we still managed to source our own vaccines and not be a part of the vaccine fund.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: "As is still the case."

                          @Patrician

                          "As we were within the transition period we were still fully subject to all EU regulations."

                          Not when the covid fund was created. As for vaccine procurement it was only through brexit the UK didnt abandon its plans and knuckle under like the other members. Also the UK approved vaccines while members for some unknown reason waited for the EMA to approve. Are you suggesting the UK is better run than the EU and its members? I wouldnt claim that.

                          "So you agree with me then?"

                          Obviously not. Claiming a technicality that doesnt apply in the real world doesnt win you squat.

                          "As pointed out above, although we were in the transition phase, we were still completely subject to all EU regulations; but we still managed to source our own vaccines and not be a part of the vaccine fund."

                          The covid bailout fund (I assume thats what you mean unless you are talking about something else) only appeared in 2022. We escaped because we were not part of the EU.

                          1. Anonymous Coward
                            Anonymous Coward

                            Re: "As is still the case."

                            So, what you are saying that the Tories wouldn't have tried to apply the EU rules to get the vaccines without waiting for the EU common purchasing plan?

                            Why would they wait if it was in the interest of their citizens?

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: "As is still the case."

                              @AC

                              "So, what you are saying that the Tories wouldn't have tried to apply the EU rules to get the vaccines without waiting for the EU common purchasing plan?"

                              I dont follow that sentence. Every member government joined the EU procurement plan. Members who already had their own plans such as Germany abandoned their own plan under pressure to show unity in the EU. So if every single member government and the EU are so resolute that the solution is EU procurement why does anyone believe the UK government is so much better run as to be the lone dissenter?

                              The only reason the UK went its own way was because we just went through the brexit vote and years of 'transition period' and finally got to the exit, that politically it was not viable for the government to join the procurement with the EU. I do not believe our government to be so superior to the entire EU membership and the EU government itself to think we would have gone our own way.

                              What impresses me most is the remainer argument is that the UK government is so superior that we would have gone our own way. They dont say it but imply it when they say we technically could because of the rules.

                              I like to start with the covid procurement because it is a huge rabbit hole of the EU making a bad decision after a bad decision. That is the fact regardless of if a persons opinion is for remain or leave. But it requires an EU fanatic to disregard the facts to hold on to their belief.

                              "Why would they wait if it was in the interest of their citizens?"

                              Interestingly during the chaos where the EU didnt place the orders on time and made it too difficult, Germany broke the agreement by negotiating for vaccine with a manufacturer the EU was already negotiating with. That was a violation of the agreed rules. The EU made clear to ROI that going over the border to get vaccine to bring back is not acceptable even though Northern Ireland was being vaccinated. Why would they do that if it wasnt in the interests of the citizens? Politics.

                          2. captain veg Silver badge

                            Re: "As is still the case."

                            This is truly desperate stuff.

                            Give it up on the vaccines, mate. You lost. Suck it up.

                            Now, since Brexit was such a wonderful idea, you ought to be able to come up with a surfeit of other, more real examples of how wonderful life is post-EU. In fact by now things really ought to be so great that we're not having this conversation at all, because it should be self-evidently better. But somehow it hasn't worked out that way. I wonder why not.

                            Ask yourself, which is more likely: (1) I got that wrong, sorry everyone, we're all fallible; or (2) I was right all along and reality is somehow strangely failing to measure up.

                            -A.

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: "As is still the case."

                              @captain veg

                              "Give it up on the vaccines, mate. You lost. Suck it up."

                              How do you work that out? At no point yet has anyone explained how I am wrong. Instead I get desperate efforts to gloss over it.

                              "In fact by now things really ought to be so great that we're not having this conversation at all, because it should be self-evidently better"

                              You answer this in your own comment. It doesnt matter to you that the immediate benefit as soon as we left was self evident and recognised not only in the UK but in the EU itself, but you deny reality. Why are we having this conversation, because you are so desperate to cling to either a lie or your fanatical belief the EU can do no wrong, that you keep posting fantasy and then complaining.

                              1. captain veg Silver badge

                                Re: "As is still the case."

                                If either of us has fanatical belief in anything I rather think that it's not me.

                                -A.

                                1. codejunky Silver badge

                                  Re: "As is still the case."

                                  @captain veg

                                  "If either of us has fanatical belief in anything I rather think that it's not me."

                                  How interesting, so you actually believe what you say? That is concerning but maybe I am wrong, lets test this-

                                  You say- "Give it up on the vaccines, mate. You lost. Suck it up.".

                                  No that is a very testable claim. You responded to my factual comment which only reiterates what actually happened in very recent history that most of us lived through. Now your refuting of my account is your poor line above. As I have commented elsewhere on very comment section, I mention the vaccines because it is a delusion test. It is factual history not some subjective or questionable issue.

                                  So while you might think its not you, you might want to critically think about it and maybe see if you can come up with a better reason than just because you think you are right.

                                  1. Anonymous Coward
                                    FAIL

                                    Re: "As is still the case."

                                    NOBODY ON HERE BELIEVES YOUR BREXIT BULLSHIT CLAIMS ABOUT COVID VACCINES, CODEJUNKY. GIVE IT A REST.

                  4. Anonymous Coward
                4. Roland6 Silver badge

                  Re: "As is still the case."

                  Well….

                  There is a benefit to be gained from having some “slack” in the economy, as it gives us a window to transform things so we aren’t so dependent upon oil and gas and are more sustainable etc. The trouble is the politicians, as they demonstrated with their handling of Brexit, aren’t up to the challenge….

              2. Patrician

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                .>"I am amused you make up my opinion so you actually have something to argue against but no. I voted leave because it was better for the UK than remaining. As is still the case."

                There is plenty of evidence to the contrary now.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  @Patrician

                  "There is plenty of evidence to the contrary now."

                  Go ahead...

                  1. Patrician

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    The subject of this article is the obvious one.

                    1. codejunky Silver badge
                      WTF?

                      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                      @Patrician

                      "The subject of this article is the obvious one."

                      Eh? Are you blaming the power outage or bureaucratic hold-ups? And either of those is brexit?

                      1. Patrician

                        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                        "Eh? Are you blaming the power outage or bureaucratic hold-ups? And either of those is brexit?"

                        The "bureaucratic hold ups" wouldn't exist if not for brexit.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge
                          Devil

                          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                          @Patrician

                          "The "bureaucratic hold ups" wouldn't exist if not for brexit."

                          I appreciate the laugh but I will let you ponder that until it clicks. You think adding another layer of government and bureaucrats reduces bureaucratic hold ups?

                          1. Anonymous Coward
                            Anonymous Coward

                            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                            Well, this is what the Tories did to ensure that the new rules they devised for Brexit where working.

                            Of course, they are not competent enough to have any IT project completed on time and budget over the last decade, but still...

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                              @AC

                              "Of course, they are not competent enough to have any IT project completed on time and budget over the last decade, but still..."

                              This is government, you wont have me defending them much. The difference is I apply things evenly to government including the one that sat above ours. Our governments record of IT indeed stretches back to when we were members of the EU and is about the same level of success.

            2. Michael Strorm Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              Exactly.

              The response to *any* claim that "this is not the brexit I voted for" is that this is *exactly* the Brexit you actually voted for- that the UK would leave the EU, and nothing more. No plan in place, no agreement as to what shape it would take, a pig in a poke.

              If it wasn't the Brexit you wanted to think you were voting for, well... that's something completely different.

              It's entirely on you if you took it for granted that your personal fantasy and the lies that everyone told you were lies at the time- which you picked and chose from to suit what you wanted to believe- were what was on the voting paper.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                @Michael Strorm

                "It's entirely on you if you took it for granted that your personal fantasy and the lies that everyone told you were lies at the time- which you picked and chose from to suit what you wanted to believe- were what was on the voting paper."

                That applies to both sides. People with different beliefs of what could be done after brexit vs people with different beliefs of what the EU is and what it would become.

                1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  > "That applies to both sides. "

                  The fact that the future direction of the UK's existing agreement and arrangement with the EU- and the direction of the EU in general- wasn't guaranteed (because no-one can guarantee the future) isn't the same thing as having no plan for the future or arrangement in the first place.

                  > "People with different beliefs of what could be done"

                  "Could" be wasn't good enough, and meant nothing when there was no agreement on how the UK leaving the EU *would* work and what direction it would take.

                  Anyone who voted leave, who knew- or who should have known- that there was no such plan in place is responsible for that decision.

                  1. codejunky Silver badge

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    @Michael Strorm

                    Most of your comment seems to say its ok for remainers to be clueless of any plan for the future (or understanding) of remain but its wrong for brexiters to have their own ideas for brexit.

                    "Anyone who voted leave, who knew- or who should have known- that there was no such plan in place is responsible for that decision."

                    Sure. No problem with that.

                    1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                      Pretty sure I didn't say that. Brexiteers were perfectly entitled to have their own ideas about what Brexit *could* or *should* be and countless of them did.

                      But so what? Ideas are ten-a-penny, that's the easy part. Anyone from a right-wing politician to a putting-the-country-to-rights pub bore can churn out how *they* think Brexit should go.

                      The point was that none of them did the hard- but absolutely crucial- work of getting together and agreeing a cohesive plan as to how Brexit *would* go before the vote took place. (*)

                      And if that sounds like a double standard, that's because that's how it works. "Remain" was a vote for the status quo- for the plans and arrangements that had already been made and which- like them or not- we already had in place and were an established and known quantity.

                      Leave's proposal was to tear up the existing plan, so it's quite reasonable that the onus was- or should have been- on them to explain *exactly* what they intended to replace it with.

                      They didn't, and that says it all.

                      (*) Then again, the lack of cohesion *was* arguably the point. You had countless figures spewing out contradictory visions of what Brexit should be, different things to suit different audiences, who could in turn pick and choose what *they* assumed Brexit would be. Trying to combine all that into a single, cohesive vision would have (a) been pretty much impossible and (b) upset those whose fantasy Brexit it didn't tally with. Again, this excuses none of it- quite the opposite.

                      1. codejunky Silver badge

                        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                        @Michael Strorm

                        "Pretty sure I didn't say that."

                        I quote- "the UK's existing agreement and arrangement with the EU- and the direction of the EU in general- wasn't guaranteed".

                        "Anyone from a right-wing politician to a putting-the-country-to-rights pub bore can churn out how *they* think Brexit should go."

                        Thats a fair description of brexiters and remainers. When pointed out how fragmented leave voters were I just pointed out how fragmented remainers were in their belief of what the EU was as well as its future direction.

                        ""Remain" was a vote for the status quo- for the plans and arrangements that had already been made and which- like them or not- we already had in place and were an established and known quantity."

                        Thats the thing people voted to leave. The status quo of the EU power grab and flaws being enough to tip people towards leave.

                        "Leave's proposal was to tear up the existing plan, so it's quite reasonable that the onus was- or should have been- on them to explain *exactly* what they intended to replace it with."

                        Leaving the EU. Thats what was proposed. Take foot off gas before hitting wall even if there were different ideas which way to turn. Also the idea of "exactly" is blatant ignorance of reality as it would require a negotiation with the EU which was then conducted by remainers once brexiters refused to bend over for EU demands. The EU not willing to discuss brexit until the gov started art50

                        (*) Then again, the lack of cohesion *was* arguably the point. You had countless figures spewing out contradictory visions of what Brexit should be, different things to suit different audiences, who could in turn pick and choose what *they* assumed Brexit would be. Trying to combine all that into a single, cohesive vision would have (a) been pretty much impossible and (b) upset those whose fantasy Brexit it didn't tally with. Again, this excuses none of it- quite the opposite.

                        Replace brexit with EU and your sentence still works. Look at how many were disappointed their reality didnt happen when we left, the UK didnt implode, the EU didnt shoot off successfully, the UK didnt enter recession, the EU situation didnt improve and got worse, the UK gov looked stupid, the EU gov looked stupid.

                        1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                          > "Pretty sure I didn't say that." I quote [etc]

                          The part that was a reply to was "Most of your comment seems to say its ok for remainers to be clueless of any plan for the future (or understanding) of remain but its wrong for brexiters to have their own ideas for brexit."

                          As I said, I'm pretty sure I didn't say or imply anything like that. They're entitled to think what they like, it's just that ideas are ten-a-penny and are not- in themselves- the same thing as a remotely cohesive and agreed plan.

                          > Take foot off gas (*) before hitting wall even if there were different ideas which way to turn

                          Brexit *had* to be that abrupt and ill-considered because it was a response to a sudden change in the direction of the EU? Pull the other one.

                          Cameron only called the vote in an attempt to finally shut up and shut down the Eurosceptic right in the Tory party that had been pushing for it for decades. (And he only did that because he arrogantly misjudged it and took for granted that they'd lose).

                          Brexit was more like driving along the road with one or more passengers who'd been arguing that we should be going somewhere else instead, but no-one had agreed where to, and decided to abruptly turn the car to the right without knowing where that road went, or even if there was a road rather than a field there.

                          > Look at how many were disappointed their reality didnt happen when we left

                          Yes, as a strawman "Remain" voter, I'm utterly disappointed that the worst-case scenarios didn't play out. I'd have gladly traded my economic future just to be able to score a few "I told you so" points with some random Leaver on an Internet forum. No, really. *cough*

                          And obviously because Johnson and chums pulled back at the last minute when (e.g.) they were heading directly towards the wall of a no-deal Brexit (precisely because *they'd* run things down to the last minute), it was wrong to have considered its possible consequences.

                          (*) Do you mean the accelerator?

                          1. codejunky Silver badge

                            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                            @Michael Strorm

                            "They're entitled to think what they like, it's just that ideas are ten-a-penny and are not- in themselves- the same thing as a remotely cohesive and agreed plan."

                            I agree, I just apply it evenly to both sides. The idea of cohesive or agreed doesnt sit well with the EU currently. There are a few political problems now concerning such in which the EU tries to clamp down on its members for not just falling in line.

                            "Brexit *had* to be that abrupt and ill-considered because it was a response to a sudden change in the direction of the EU? Pull the other one."

                            Not at all. People wanted a vote on leaving the EU since Blair and had been lied to and abused for so long we finally forced a vote using UKIP. Then scum tried to scupper leave which left the scum so badly tied up in their own legal knots as to leave as we did. Compare that to how the negotiations started with brexiters handling things and there was a marked difference. A lot of the crying by remain is due to scum trying to keep us in. The good news is we are out and so a government who wishes to run the country can do so without the EU sitting on top.

                            "Cameron only called the vote in an attempt to finally shut up and shut down the Eurosceptic right in the Tory party that had been pushing for it for decades. (And he only did that because he arrogantly misjudged it and took for granted that they'd lose)."

                            As I say people voted to leave. Not just some fringe right but the friggin people of the country. The people abused by its own government into remain.

                            "Yes, as a strawman "Remain" voter, I'm utterly disappointed that the worst-case scenarios didn't play out."

                            Really? Read some of the historical comments on the reg. So many people desperately in hope for the failure that never came. Or read the deluded on this board desperately clinging to 'there are no brexit benefits' and actually denying real examples. Go tell them they are straw men,

                            "And obviously because Johnson and chums pulled back at the last minute"

                            With the inherited withdrawal agreement that wasnt from the notorious remainer May who wanted to please both sides, in a polar opposite decision which is highly incompatible. Or as I shorten it 'scum'.

                            "(*) Do you mean the accelerator?"

                            Yes but that doesnt sound as good

                            1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

                              "Scum sausage scum scum bacon scum tomato and scum"

                              > "People wanted a vote on leaving the EU since Blair"

                              So we both agree that- in reality- right-wingers had been pushing for Brexit for a long, *long* time and the "[taking the] foot off gas before hitting wall" excuse you originally gave for why Brexit was an unplanned mess- i.e. an emergency response to a supposedly abrupt change in circumstances- was nonsense.

                              > "Then scum tried to scupper leave which left the scum so badly tied up in their own legal knots as to leave as we did. Compare that to how the negotiations started with brexiters handling things and there was a marked difference."

                              At the time of the vote, I predicted that alleged sabotage by Remain supporters would- along with the EU itself- be used as an excuse/scapegoat when Brexit didn't deliver the promised unicorns, rainbows and sunlit uplands. (Admittedly, it wouldn't have taken a genius to have foreseen that).

                              Lo and behold.

                              > scum [..] scum [..] scum [..] scum

                              Well, this *did* stay civil longer than I'd expected, but you appear to have belatedly reached the partisan insults and foaming-at-the-mouth demonisation of one's political opponents stage that most Brexit discussions descend into.

                              1. codejunky Silver badge

                                Re: "Scum sausage scum scum bacon scum tomato and scum"

                                @Michael Strorm

                                "So we both agree that- in reality- right-wingers had been pushing for Brexit for a long, *long* time"

                                Right wingers in a vote that crossed parties and had great support from the 'red wall'?

                                "i.e. an emergency response to a supposedly abrupt change in circumstances- was nonsense."

                                Why? Continually the UK was being sold out by Blair and people increasingly wanted a vote. Something which both Blair and Cameron lied about offering to gain votes. Just because we had to wrestle the accelerator from idiots aiming for the wall does not mean it isnt an emergency response. Hell Blair considered the Euro and so many commenters were on their knees gagging to join, calling people like me eurosceptics. Shockingly it is very difficult to find those supporters now, I have seen one on here and nobody else seems to have supported the idea ever, not once.

                                "At the time of the vote, I predicted that alleged sabotage by Remain supporters would"

                                At the time of the vote I assumed the official leave party was chosen to intentionally tank the leave vote. Instead of the actual leave party and groups who delivered on forcing the vote we got Boris. After watching his shockingly bad efforts I was certain it was sabotage until I saw how bad the remain party was and realised they were both embarrassing. Yet to campaign for the vote we had tax payer money used against the tax payer (campaign to remain) yet allowed to bypass the actual rules limiting funding as well as the government itself actively threatening the population to vote remain with the now well named 'punishment budget'.

                                "Well, this *did* stay civil longer than I'd expected, but you appear to have belatedly reached the partisan insults and foaming-at-the-mouth demonisation of one's political opponents stage that most Brexit discussions descend into."

                                Not at all. But how does a remainer negotiate brexit? Especially when the remainers goal is to appease leave and remain which are two vast polar opposites? Not only did remain lose but then they hijacked the negotiations to bring about the 'withdrawal agreement'. Which leads to the still good news that for all the efforts to stop brexit they tied themselves up so badly that the withdrawal agreement is the worst they could achieve and we still left the EU.

                                A very hard fought win.

                                1. Anonymous Coward
                                  Anonymous Coward

                                  Re: "Scum sausage scum scum bacon scum tomato and scum"

                                  Brexiteers: All blame & finger-pointing. Zero ownership or responsibility for their clown shitshow.

                        2. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          More words, still missing point

                          Remain and Leave weren't interchangeable positions. They still aren't. The leave vote was choosing to jump off a cliff in the dark, where the voters were intentionally and cynically mislead into voting jump before the sun came up. People on the remain side knew what voting remain meant. Those running the leave side should had a vote to negotiate an agreement, and that agreement should have been voted on once settled.

                          They should have been run out of government for screwing it up. Instead I see people wrapping one mistake in another, and trying to "both sides" one of the worst blunders in recent history. People weren't on their knees praying the UK would faceplant or implode. That's another mirage the Brexiteers imagined for themselves. The world isn't out to get you, but some of it is embarrassed having to watch. Like the town drunk falling down and knocking out their teeth. It hurts to watch.

                          That cuts to your last point, which actually shows the colossally stupid decision in total benefited neither the EU or UK. Both have and will continue to lose more than any of the tiny gains on either side. And willful pride and spite are jamming up the work toward transitioning from the least functional relationship possible to something that at least functions on a day to day basis.

              2. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                Additionally, with no agreement in place, these checks should be as per WTO rules and thus already being applied to fresh food imports from non-EU countries trading on WTO terms.

                Given many Brxiteers wanted WTO trade terms…

    2. blackcat Silver badge

      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

      Cos the people running this farce could give a Vogon a run for its money.

    3. Roj Blake Silver badge

      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

      Because it's a legal requirement, and the government are selective in what rules they want to break.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        They break international rules in "a limited and specific way" only

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

      Because the UK government is already in breach of WTO rules for giving goods arriving from the EU disproportionate favourable treatment vs the rest of the world (under Most Favoured Nation clauses as part of the WTO agreement).

      Now, if the UK had some sort of agreement on customs checks with the EU, then it would be fine.

      But it doesn't, so it's not.

      As a result, the UK is open to WTO disputes, which are very common. These allow countries to unilaterally impose tariffs on single WTO members in retaliation for breaches of WTO protocols. The world is currently kinda letting the UK get away with it because there was a clear plan, albeit one with shifting dates which would make landing a dispute difficult (because the UK could counter by saying they're making steps to be compliant).

      The EU vs US is a good example of that, there's been a couple of decades of disputes and billions in tariffs as a result. The countermeasures on both sides included extra tariffs on wine, spirits, dairy, cheese, handbags and tobacco.

      It'd basically make the self-imposed sanctions by the UK as a result of Brexit much, much worse.

      Backsliding definitely opens the door on potential disputes from other WTO members.

      Brexit is going well, isn't it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        Make are cuntry grate again.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

          Have glass of foaming nut brown ale for that! :-)

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        The world is currently kinda letting the UK get away with it because there was a clear plan, albeit one with shifting dates which would make landing a dispute difficult (because the UK could counter by saying they're making steps to be compliant).

        Indeed, but even if the world is watching like hawks poised to open a dispute then quietly letting lorries through for a day or so while the system is down would have meant that no-one would have been any the wiser. Sometimes when it comes to disaster recovery you've got to be pragmatic... but Brexit is not the product of pragmatic people.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

          We are we importing food from Europe ?

          We fought a war referendum so we wouldn't be forced to eat foreign food.

          We should be eating Roast Beef and Yorkshire pudding (only in Yorkshire, the southerners can eat Jellied eels or whatever)

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            @Yet Another Anonymous coward

            "We fought a war referendum so we wouldn't be forced to eat foreign food."

            The referendum was to open to the rest of the world, not just the EU and what the EU says is too foreign.

            1. Dan 55 Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              The UK rolled over the EU trade agreements, rolled over Everything But Arms (now called Least Developed Countries Framework - that name change puts them in their place eh?), rolled over Generalised System of Preferences (now called General Framework), and rolled over GSP+ (now called Enhanced Framework). The UK negotiated trade agreements with Japan, Australia, and NZ but the EU also has its own trade agreements with these three countries.

              So there's no practical difference. The UK is not any more open to the rest of the world outside the EU than it would be inside it.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                Not really the point. Nor is it true.

                If Tesco buys a consignment of fruit from Morocco, that gets sealed in Morocco, then shipped straight to the UK via Spain and France without checks.

                Previously, Spain would have checked it on the way in, then it'd be shipped without checks to the distribution centre in the UK. The EU was providing protection for the UK from the rest of the world. Not only this, but the UK has been locked out of the EU's Rapid Alert system for food safety notifications.

                And the sellers in non EU countries know well that there aren't checks on imports to the UK. So any old shit is getting shipped over, checks have revealed on multiple occasions that concerning and illegal food is getting shipped to the UK.

                As for the openness to the rest of the world, the UK has done abysmal trade deals with Oz and NZ, which are highly damaging to british farming.

                The UK is outside the new trade agreement with Canada, so even the assertion that it's no different is incorrect.

                And finally, the loss in GDP from higher barriers to EU-UK trade and the extra costs associated with tariff and non-tariff barriers (such as rules of origin) are hundreds of times larger than any impact from trade deals with the rest of the world.

                In summary, trade with EU damaged, more vulnerable to crap and panicked trade deals that are damaging british industry.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  In summary, trade with EU damaged, more vulnerable to crap and panicked trade deals that are damaging british industry.

                  Yes. But. Don't forget.... Blue passports !!!

                  1. BebopWeBop
                    Devil

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    And pints of Champagne...

                  2. ChrisElvidge

                    Re: Blue passports

                    My new one seems to be almost black IMHO, not the nice blue they used to be before red-ish. C.f Croatia.

                  3. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
                    Trollface

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    Still printed in France?

                2. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  @AC

                  "The EU was providing protection for the UK from the rest of the world"

                  I think you made my point when I said- "The referendum was to open to the rest of the world, not just the EU and what the EU says is too foreign."

                  1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    "How dare these other EU countries have functioning customs checks! Thank God we're out!"

                3. werdsmith Silver badge

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  And the sellers in non EU countries know well that there aren't checks on imports to the UK. So any old shit is getting shipped over, checks have revealed on multiple occasions that concerning and illegal food is getting shipped to the UK.

                  U wot m8?

                  There aren’t checks on imports but checks on imports have found illegal food?

                  1. John Robson Silver badge

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    Yes - there have been a few sampling checks.

                    There are no checks, then occasionally we look at whats coming in on one day to see how fucked we are (very)

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              Well brexit has worked great for opening up the UK to worldwide immigration. Trebles all round! Ah. Err. Oopsy. LOLz.

              1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                That's a lie and you know it. So why say it?

                Sad that 7 other fanatics have upvoted your lie though.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells> That's a lie and you know it

                  You wish it were a lie. But then hopes and wishes are all brexiteers ever offer. Never anything of real substance. Unicorns. Magic beans. Immigration control.

                  1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
                    Facepalm

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    So did Europe leave the EU too? Did America leave the EU?

                    If you're thinking of the Dublin agreement, that resulted in more people being sent to Britain than from it. Leaving the EU has freed us of this.

                    If you have to lie to further your cause, maybe you should reconsider whether you actually believe in it. Join us. We're better off out.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                      Whatever are you wittering on about old chap?

                      What people are being "sent"? That just sounds like gammon frothing.

                      Britain left the EU. Non-EU immigration into Britain shot up as EU citizens stopped coming and some returned to the EU. Now either this was an active choice or the UK is just incapable of controlling its own borders. Which is it?

                      Brexit has failed. Everyone says so. Only deluded fools still believe Britain has benefitted from it.

                      1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
                        Facepalm

                        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                        Lies and racial slurs from you again. What a shock.

                        1. Anonymous Coward
                          Anonymous Coward

                          Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                          Are you saying non-EU immigration to the UK has not gone up since Brexit!? You are in denial old chap.

                          Racial slurs? Yes brexiteers do love to throw those around and also do a bit of projection, don't they. Hmmm?

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells>> That's a lie and you know it.

                  Non-EU immigration for work reasons went up from 277,000 in the year to December 2022 to 423,000 in the year to December 2023, according to the ONS. - BBC"

                  Oh dear. Brexiter caught out by brexit bullshit. Yet again.

            3. JulieM Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              Brexit levelled "ease of doing business", but not by making it any easier to trade with non-EU countries. Rather, Brexit made it as hard to trade with EU countries as with non-EU countries.

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                @JulieM

                "Brexit levelled "ease of doing business", but not by making it any easier to trade with non-EU countries. Rather, Brexit made it as hard to trade with EU countries as with non-EU countries."

                Hang on, are you saying that the glorious EU in its glorious world wide presence of trade is hard to trade with? Damn, I guess us brexiters were right.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  Damn, I guess us brexiters were right

                  You really are a dull lad, Ain'tcha.

                2. JulieM Silver badge

                  Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                  Yes -- it's hard, by design, for non-members to trade with the EU.

                  The point is to make it more attractive to be a member than not.

                  1. codejunky Silver badge

                    Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

                    @JulieM

                    "Yes -- it's hard, by design, for non-members to trade with the EU.

                    The point is to make it more attractive to be a member than not."

                    Awesome, so this is one of those points brexiters made and some claimed a lie. Being in the protectionist bubble vs being part of the world.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Europe != EU

            We are we importing food from Europe ?

            Britain is part of Europe. It's not part of the EU any more. Or the EEA. But they're not the same thing as "Europe".

            Asking is we're importing food from Europe makes as much sense as asking if Yorkshire imports jellied eels from England.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Europe != EU

              Does Yorkshire import jellied eels from England?

              Because I've always wanted to try them. I'd consider a detour through Pennsylvania.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Europe != EU

                Pennsylvania is in Gloucestershire on the A46 just outside Bath ... not close to Yorkshire but at least still in the same country ..... no jellied eels in sight though

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Europe != EU

                  We eat elvers here in Gloucestershire.

                  1. captain veg Silver badge

                    Re: Europe != EU

                    Elves, you say? No wonder you don't see them around any more.

                    -A.

                  2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

                    Re: Europe != EU

                    We eat elvers here in Gloucestershire.

                    Used to eat lamprey too (but not to surfeit unless you are a monarch). In fact, my surname is a modified profession name of the people who used to catch them..

          3. JulieM Silver badge

            Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

            Simply, because we have not got -- and haven't had, for a couple of hundred years, barring momentary crossovers as potential kg/hectare improved with technological advances only to be overtaken by population size -- enough prime growing land to grow enough food for our entire population.

            1. abend0c4 Silver badge

              Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

              One of the motivating factors for joining the Common Market in the first instance was the fear of food insecurity in the absence of an Empire to make up the shortfall.

              1. ChrisElvidge

                Re: Common market

                And that was the problem. We voted to join the Common Market, and joined the European Union by osmosis.

                1. captain veg Silver badge

                  Re: Common market

                  There was never any vote to join other than that, as has historically been the way in the uncodified constitution, it was in the manifesto of the party which won the 1970 general election.

                  The 1975 referendum was whether or not to continue membership (of the European Communities [note: plural], the term "common market" was the unofficial moniker of one of them), which had begun on 1 January 1973.

                  The EU was little more than a rebranding of the EC, but also incorporating the TREVI group and the EPC, of which the UK was also already a member. It is a myth that the public were somehow hoodwinked into joining -- or staying in -- a mere free trading bloc and nothing else.

                  -A.

                2. abend0c4 Silver badge

                  Re: Common market

                  Nobody voted to join the Common Market, that was a government decision. If you're under 67 you wouldn't even have had an opportunity to vote in the confirmatory referendum that took place 30 months after the UK's accession to the EEC.

                  At the time of accession, Edward Heath stated:

                  The community which we are joining is far more than a common market. It is a community in the true sense of that term. It is concerned not only with the establishment of free trade, economic and monetary union and other major economic issues, important though these are — but also as the Paris Summit Meeting has demonstrated, with social issues which affect us all — environmental questions, working conditions in industry, consumer protection, aid to development areas and vocational training.

                  That was always clear and in the public domain long before the vote. The idea of some sort of secret agenda is a retrospective conspiratorial fantasy.

    5. JulieM Silver badge

      Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

      Because there is a non-zero (and increasing) probability that some third-country farmer is going to get sufficiently disgruntled at having their produce rejected by UK Customs, while the same sort of produce originating in the EU gets waved through unchecked in flagrant contravention of WTO rules, to slip a cheeky little pipe bomb discreetly into a lorryload of EU produce bound for the UK somewhere outside Calais.

      1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: "dozens of lorries were being held at the government's control post... for up to 20 hours"

        "Rejoin the EU or die"

        Very compelling. Idiot.

        1. Michael Strorm Silver badge

          OI! DISGUSTED OF TUNBRIDGE WELLS! *NO*!

          "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" expressing outrage and contempt at their own paraphrased version of some else's random scenario that was already purely hypothetical and plucked out of thin air in the first place...?

          Hmm, who does that remind me of?

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Facepalm

    A power outage

    What ? There was no backup system ?

    This is a critical component of UK economy, and nobody thought that a backup power generator might be useful ?

    Just how stupid are the numpties that plan these things ?

    If you can call that planning . . .

    1. hardboiledphil

      Re: A power outage

      Who said they didn't have a backup? Maybe the backup failed too.

      I've seen a client have 3 backups and still lose datacentre - one backup was under maintenance and the other two failed to work.

      1. Martin Gregorie

        Re: A power outage

        Only one backup system? Surely anything as time-critical as customs systems handling perishable goods, particularly food and livestock, should have fully duplicated IT kit powered by a similarly duplicated power supply. The system as a whole needs to protect any and all time-critical goods in transit against damage from any source including, but not limited to officialdom as well as IT system problems, PSU failures and mains failures.

        Last but not least, it would be reasonable for HM Customs to carry perishable goods insurance against damage due to inspection delays regardless of what caused the delay..

        1. Munehaus

          Re: A power outage

          Even the computers on aeroplanes typically have a minimum of three systems with a voting configuration deciding which one works. But apparently the UK already voted so can't ever vote again.

      2. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: A power outage

        one backup was under maintenance and the other two failed to work

        Clearly incompetent for not actually testing thing then.

        And no, running a generator off-load once a month is not a proper test. Send Igor to pull The Switch that disconnects the whole building and see how it goes? What, too scared to test it properly? Well you reap what you sow (or don't and have a barren larder)...

      3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: A power outage

        I've seen a client have 3 backups and still lose datacentre

        I've worked at a place that had two entirely separate generator houses with separate power runs from the grid and to the computer centre to run the mainframes if the power failed.

        Both fed by the same giant diesel tank under the car park.

        Which had a leak and went dry and no-one noticed because there wasn't any proper fuel-level monitoring.

        Then the mains failed, both generators spun up to carry the load and then, 30 seconds later when the fuel in the pipes ran out, both fell over.

        Then the mainframes fell over. Oops. S/370s do *not* like sudden loss of pwer - recovering took a senior engineer from IBM turning up post-haste to assist as it was well outside the knowledge of the on-site staff. Still, the outage was only costing us $6m per hour so no worries eh?

        Facilities and engineering manager left shortly afterwards and, once the tank was fixed, proper fuel monitoring was put in place.

        1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

          Re: A power outage

          Both fed by the same giant diesel tank under the car park.

          The first level of WTF - redundancy except for fuel loss or contamination?

          no-one noticed because there wasn't any proper fuel-level monitoring

          This I have heard elsewhere, but in their case it went on generator fine...six hours later if fell over as the fuel ran out. Here they failed on two accounts: first to not be notified when on-generator, and second not to be notified when fuel was running low.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: A power outage

      "Just how stupid are the numpties that plan these things ?"

      About as stupid as the numpties who thought the whole thing was a good idea in the irst place.

      1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: A power outage

        Nothing has changed , but at least the numpties did'nt kill anyone with the failure to have a backup system

        Search out 'London Ambulance system' where the numpties canceled the backup system on the grounds of 'cost' then the primary fell over..........

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A power outage

      I don't recall any power backup systems in the days before the UK joined the EU so this just suggests the politicians never thought about all the changes.

      Regardless of how we feel about Brexit we just need to make everything work these days. I thought Brexit was stupid, it resulted in destroying all my efforts to move my company from the US to England so I've had to move it to another company in the US now, making zero $.

      The only positive side of all this for me is that I have retired and plan to return and live in Wales.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: A power outage

        "The only positive side of all this for me is that I have retired and plan to return and live in Wales."

        I spend a fair amount of time in Wales, I can see no positive side in retiring to the Parochiality. If you think Brexit was bad, then the Welsh government's xenophobic and small minded outlook may come as a bit of a disappointment. But the people of Wales voted for the Welsh government, so clearly they're happy with the state of Wales.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: A power outage

          At least you have the weather...

          1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

            Re: A power outage

            And no need for an aquaduct...

    4. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: A power outage

      >What ? There was no backup system ?

      Yes there were 4 sockets on the extension and the computer was only using one - so there were 3 spares (expect the office kettle is plugged into one)

    5. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: A power outage

      It was the backup's day off…

    6. Tron Silver badge

      Re: A power outage

      That's very harsh. They only had eight years to sort it out.

      At least Border Force are consistent. Everything they do fails. Passport e-gates go tits up. Mail gets backed up for weeks. Lorries get stuck until their contents goes off.

      And the Tories actually think they stand a chance at the next election.

      I'm not sure there is anything left that they haven't broken. But I'm sure they will spend their last few months trying to find something.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: A power outage

        We're really dealing with the Home Office here. One that John Reid, Labour Home Sec many years ago, declared unfit for purpose. No government of any colour has succeeded in fixing that. One problem seems to be that their core competence is house training incoming Home Secs. Admittedly not all of them need to be house trained.

        1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: A power outage

          This is our problem. We have a permanent government that runs the country, badly.

          And we have temporary democratic governments voted in who try (and fail) to get the permanent government to do the people's bidding*. And when things go tits up, the elected government gets the blame.

          If Labour come in next year, they might perform better if the permanent government happens to agree with Labour's policies, but that really is not how a country should be run.

          Outsourcing parts of government to a foreign permanent government is not the answer.

          * Don't start, our FPTP representative democracy is a hell of a lot better than the way the permanent government are selected.

    7. R Soul Silver badge

      Just how stupid are the numpties that plan these things ?

      You have to ask?

      Have a look at the main Brexiteers and take a wild guess.

    8. Jedit Silver badge
      Headmaster

      "Just how stupid are the numpties that plan these things?"

      You're labouring under a delusion if you think that anyone in government who wanted Brexit had at any point planned for what to do if they actually got it.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: "Just how stupid are the numpties that plan these things?"

        Rather like the Republicans, the dog has caught the car and now we're all getting run over.

    9. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: A power outage

      > What ? There was no backup system ?

      It is not clear what actually went down. Also we do really need to understand the business continuity plans.

      From the reports, it seems only a single control post covering Dover and the channel tunnel was impacted.

      So the central system/servers may not have gone down…

      I expect the designers of the system didn’t design it to be fully available right down to the individual ANPR cameras, because that costs…

      1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

        Re: A power outage

        the issue there is not the business continuity plan, but the bureaucracy continuity plan

  3. I am David Jones Silver badge

    At least the lettuces should be fine

    +/- 20 hrs - meh

    1. MJI Silver badge

      Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

      Out survived a truss

      1. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge

        Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

        The media didn't tell lies to remove the lettuce.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

          Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells>>> Lies

          You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    2. Roj Blake Silver badge

      Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

      The problems reported in the article are just the tip of the iceberg though.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

        Hopefully it won't be arugula occurrence

        1. F. Frederick Skitty Silver badge

          Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

          You win the Internet for today with that one.

      2. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

        Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

        But at what Kos?

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

          If you were paying in diamonds, it'd certainly be more than a little gem.

      3. spacecadet66

        Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

        Really? What then still romaines?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

          What leaves?

        2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

          What have the romaines ever done for us?

          1. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

            Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

            No. no. no. Romani, Romani...

            Write it out a hundred times or i'll cut your b*lls off.

      4. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: At least the lettuces should be fine

      But what of the undocumented immigrants?

  4. MJI Silver badge

    I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

    To be honest much easier to cheap than play by new rules.

    Especially smallish high value goods.

    Good example with modelling hobbies.

    Smuggle a few grands worth of model railway locos from UK to EU, smuggle a similar amount back.

    Not much room and could claim they are your own.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

      I really want a BBC 'breaking black' type series about the international model railway smuggling cartels

      1. R Soul Silver badge

        Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

        How could TV execs be expected to gauge the success or failure of such a series?

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

          They should commission it anyway, it could be a sleeper hit.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

            They'd be really chuff-chuffed.

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

          HO-HO

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

            More like HO-EM from my experience

          2. Sceptic Tank Silver badge

            Go big or go home

            O-O

      2. MJI Silver badge

        Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

        TBH it is being considered.

        The UK based Continental modellers are being hit by quite a lot of extra costs.

        The French based modellers of British outline are being hit quite hard by extra costs on UK sourced models.

        Can't just go into a model shop and get special imports at a reasonable price.

    2. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

      I like your train of thought

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: I think there will be a huge rise in smuggling

      A boat load of lettuces easier and worth more than a boat load of people? Might be worth telling the people smugglers this….

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    why not go back to letting lorries through until the problem is fixed ?

    Because the UK is a member of the WTO, and WTO rules are such that if you are waving one countries goods through ignoring any treaties, then you have to wave them ALL through.

    Currently the UK is being treated like the idiot it is by the WTO. However that won't last long. Do you think China and India are going to sit back and let it happen ?

    1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

      Re: why not go back to letting lorries through until the problem is fixed ?

      Do you think China and India are going to sit back and let it happen ?

      Only until they can go for the kill.

    2. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: why not go back to letting lorries through until the problem is fixed ?

      I am still waiting for a Chinese lorry to go all the way from Beijing to London.

      And what about Chinese tanks?

  6. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

    Incompetence on a truly national scale. They can't keep the e-passport machines working, they can't keep the border system for goods working, huge increases in costs for importing and exporting goods to our nearest neighbours, and we haven't even fully implemented all of the idiotic measures that need to be put in place because of Brexit. If we keep on like this we will soon get dropped from the G7 because we will be 8th and dropping. Anyone feel like taking back their "Project Fear" comments now that they are all becoming Reality? <LOL>

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

      Sadly none of that is really down to Brexit, it's more down to incompetent civil servants and penny-pinching beancounters, who operate without any adult supervision. I'd be very surprised if that changes after the next election.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

        So the "Brexit border system" is nothing to do with Brexit ?

        No wonder we are where we are when we have to put up with this kind of critical thinking ....

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

          >So the "Brexit border system" is nothing to do with Brexit

          Well true Brexit has never been achieved. When we would seal up the tunnel, blockade the channel and trade only with ourselves.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

        Immediately it's down to HO incompetence but if it were not for Brexit the systems wouldn't be needed so it wouldn't be there to fail.

        1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

          Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

          It's sad you even have to explain this.

        2. Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

          So you're saying that the public shouldn't be allowed to vote on matters that would require the civil service has to do anything

          Very democratic.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            No that was the voice in your head again.

            No one said that but you. You said that. It was neither true nor particularly coherent, but you said it anyway.

            What I personally have been saying is that it's amazing the clown car of idiots responsible for this trainwreck are still a force in government. That UK voters were intentionally deceived by them, and were denied the chance to read and vote on a comprehensive plan and binding EU agreement before it was finnalized. That's because there never was one, and they have been making it up as they go along ever since.

            So what I am saying is the public should have been given full information and had the final say on any final agreement, before "Brexit" was considered officially decided. So multiple votes instead of no votes.

            That is how you can tell the ideas of other people from the imaginary ones. They are discussing ideas you apparently didn't think of on your own.

      3. Patrician

        Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

        It wasn't happening prior to brexit though...

      4. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: Laurel & Hardy in "Nothing but Brexit "

        I see.

        So when you promulgated leaving a system which was working pretty well you expected its replacement to fail.

        Why did you do that?

        -A.

  7. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    The gift that keeps on giving…

    NFT

    1. Blue Pumpkin

      Re: The gift that keeps on giving…

      .... taking

  8. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    UK is world leading in failures.

  9. Plest Silver badge
    Happy

    Mention the dreaed "B-word" in any forum and it bascally becomes yet another BBC HYS comment section!

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Yes, a great source of comedy. Mainly laughing at CodeJunky flailing around in ever more desperate attempts to defend Brexit.

      1. NXM Silver badge

        downvote

        Can someone write a browser app that automatically downvotes him? Everything he posts is utter utter bullshit.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: downvote

          @NXM

          "Can someone write a browser app that automatically downvotes him? Everything he posts is utter utter bullshit."

          I think he already did. Its for people unable to respond with a coherent rebuttal but want to still disagree out of principal.

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge

            Re: downvote

            Nah, we're just tired of dealing with the mess you created.

        2. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: downvote

          Can someone write a browser app that automatically downvotes him? Everything he posts is utter utter bullshit.

          "utter utter" - Rick from the Young Ones.....

          You don't agree then. Fine, no need to cry about it. I'm OK with downvotes by the way, every single one of my 8000+ downvotes I consider to be a bullseye.

          By the way, me laughing at CodeJunky's desperation is far fromn bullshit, it is absolutely true.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: downvote

            > every single one of my 8000+ downvotes I consider to be a bullseye.

            Just a moment, does this mean you’ve been keeping a log of the down votes you ‘ve given out, or do you mean you know you deserved all the down votes you’ve receive and which ElReg kindly maintains a total of…

            I know I’ve deserved some of the down votes and where people have commented their disagreement etc.and I have felt it reasonable etc. I have up voted their contribution.

  10. Boolian

    Red Lorry Yellow Lorry

    Can't talk about Brexit without it being someone's gibberish.

    The Brexit referendum, like all UK referendums (referenda) was advisory - there is no obligation to implement any referendum - though granted, politically it would be difficult not to. Brexit suffered from lack of definition though.

    Exit from Europe was defined almost entirely around Parliamentary Sovereignty*. I don't have any issue with those who wanted the UK to 'Exit' from the UK's Political Union with the EU - for a given value of valid, it had it's arguments.

    However, there are many ways a Nation can be affilliated with the EU, and the UK decided that Brexit would mean exiting every single one. I'd suggest that part was not explained adequately to the electorate, and for many years to come the UK must abide by its consequences - black bananas and all.

    Now a potted history lesson: After WW2, the UK was pressed by the USA to join, and take a lead and be its 'Man on the inside steering' in the fledgling EU : the ECSC. However, the UK said 'F**k that for a game of soldiers, we'll trade with our Commonwealth instead'.

    The USA, exasperated, then turned to Germany as its lead partner in the EU - where its interest remains.

    Trading with the Commonwealth instead, didn't work out very well for the UK at all; so after lagging behind Europe for over a decade, the UK ended up in the EC anyway because it had to - because Trade.

    The fact that the EU had demilitarised and invested its Marshall Plan dosh into infrastructure and rebuilding, while the UK decided the opposite - and had to beg a couple of extra loans from the US after spunking the free dosh up a tree - did not help.

    'We were the only ones to repay our debt!' was also bollox, because nobody was told we were the only ones who had the debt in the form of massive loans from the USA.

    Interestingly, Germany repaid its Marshall Plan Grant despite not being under any obligation to do so, as it wasn't a loan. Germany's 'Mittelstand' model is still underpinned by Marshall Plan invested dosh to this day.

    The demilitarisation of the EU still reverberates, as the USA is exasperated that it can't get members to consistently spunk GDP on its military industrial complex, like the UK has seldom ceased doing. To that, the EU members have always said 'F**k that for a game of soldiers - look where that got the UK'.

    FFWD to Brexit and the UK Government did actually say frequently - 'Bollox to the EU, we'll trade with the Commonwealth instead'. That would be a Commonwealth much reduced in scope and British influence since the '50's. and the last failed attempt.

    Business knows that it cannot stand alone, or competition will eat its lunch. Every business is a member of some domestic trade federation, or buying group, or it is not a business for very long.

    You pay your dues, and you abide by the rules, and you have a voice at the table. The EU has a few trade structures available to everyone and their dog, which does not require membership of the EU and 'Loss of Sovereignty'. Loss of some autonomy certainly, in the same as way being a SMB member of a trade federation.

    The UK was already a member of such federations, but decided it could better negotiate new trade deals from outside, rather than inside, and y'known, there's always the Commonwealth.

    "Brexit will be great" and "Aye, Do ye think I came up the Clyde on a banana boat?" is a droll juxtaposition and apt summary.

    *Since 'Factortame' the Sovereignty of Parliament has been moot anyway - and that's all the tongue twisting gibberish I have today.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Huh....."minimum viable product"...and other modern mysteries..........

    BREXIT - a disaster, mysterious to most.

    AGILE - a disaster unknown to most.

    So.....the "minimum viable product" IS NOT VIABLE!

    Anyone ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE????

    ......of course not......RESPONSIBILITY itself is a mystery in 2024!!!

    1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Huh....."minimum viable product"...and other modern mysteries..........

      If you are saying that Brexit was conducted using the Agile method, it would explain a lot.

      But when in a sprint you break things, aren't you supposed to correct them by the next?

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: Huh....."minimum viable product"...and other modern mysteries..........

        I can only comment on my own personal experience of so-called Agile.

        It seems to be reporting that you've not done very much, and that this was somehow exactly what you were supposed to do. So trebles all round.

        -A.

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