back to article US tariffs on Chinese EVs may grow from around 25% to 100%

The Biden administration is reportedly set to quadruple Chinese electric vehicle tariffs as part of an onslaught of increased taxes on imports from the country. According to the Wall Street Journal, critical minerals, solar goods, and batteries sourced from China will also receive the higher tariffs. Chinese EV tariffs are …

  1. Dostoevsky Bronze badge

    Yawn...

    Oh, no, the trinkets and baubles will be even more expensive. Scary.

    I just want my gasoline prices back to $1.85 per gallon.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Yawn...

      I just want my gasoline prices back to $1.85 per gallon.

      Sorry. Didn't you know gasoline is dark, satanic and killing the planet? So ICEs are going to be banned, and the UK's just announced it's banning ICE motorbikes. Hopefully setting the scene for conlficts between two sets of 1%'ers.

      But I've been re-reading one of my favorite economics texts (Merchant Princes, Charles Stross) and thinking about current policies & urban planning. So US towns and cities built up and were zoned based on people having affordable personal transport. EVs currently break that model, and it would be a collosal task to re-engineer urban areas for a carless future. Our elite will have less crowded roads, but an increasing number of people won't be able to afford to drive.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yawn...

        But I've been re-reading one of my favorite economics texts (Merchant Princes, Charles Stross) and thinking about current policies & urban planning. So US towns and cities built up and were zoned based on people having affordable personal transport. EVs currently break that model, and it would be a colossal task to re-engineer urban areas for a carless future. Our elite will have less crowded roads, but an increasing number of people won't be able to afford to drive.

        Don't worry, the mass transport issue will take care of itself in our brave new world!

        "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."

        Georgia Guidestones Rule # 1

      2. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: Yawn...

        Why would you need a car when you live on floor 20 of a tower block, go to the office on floor 8 for work and do you shopping in the supermarket on floor 1?

    2. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Yawn...

      With average new car costs in the US about $40K with nothing on the market under $20K the appearance of a car for potentially $10K or so from an established manufacturer (albeit one not a household name in the US) is likely to be really disruptive. So we're reacting in the only way we know how -- slap on tariffs to make everything expensive. All that stuff you were taught in Econ101 about 'competition seeking the best product at the lowest prices' really was just pie in the sky, BS fed to the masses. The reality is that vehicle supply in the US -- like in the UK -- is run through a well established system of monopolies, all designed to take a fairly expensive product and turn it into a $500-$700 (or so) monthly payment.

      Unfortunately, in the US we can't just go without. Our public transport systems can be extremely spotty and unreliable, even when subsidized to the hilt, so for many places cars are a must. (...and no, we're not all car obsessed -- I don't think anyone commutes by car in Los Angeles because they want to, they do it because they have to).

      So yes, the Chinese have been figuring how to make affordable, usable, electric cars. (They also know how to make IC cars, they've been making them or their components for Western car manufacturers -- we're all for cheap Chinese products if we can stick a decent markiup on them before they're sold.) As for us, the ordinary person -- "screwed yet again....".

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Yawn...

        But by limiting the supply of EVs to $50K Teslas, $100K cybertrucks and $150K F150s we can massively increase the "investment" in green technologies.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Yawn...

        BYD sells the Seagull, rebranded as the Dolphin Mini in some overseas markets, in four Latin American countries for about $21,000, twice what it costs at home. The higher price includes transportation costs, but also reflects the higher profits possible in less cutthroat markets than China. [AP].

        It would have to be more in the US. The GM Volt is 26-29K, so it's not that far off.

      3. Dostoevsky Bronze badge

        Re: Yawn...

        Yeah, this is definitely something to do with the multi-million-dollar automobile lobby - not a concern about inferior products.

        RE: public transportation: we can build as much railroad to ship freight as we please, but passengers? California has been trying for ages, and they're still not close (exaggerated headlines about $11B bridges notwithstanding), but at least they're *trying.* Of course, no sane person would use public low-fare transportation in any of our cities if it could be avoided...

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Yawn...

          RE: public transportation: we can build as much railroad to ship freight as we please, but passengers?

          I don't think rail is so much the issue. So the idea of a fast train between LA and LV is a nice idea, but seems limited, ie the number of people who travel between those two cities. It's more the challenge to implement urban/suburban public transport to either wean people out of their cars, or deal with them being priced out of the cars. Some UK councils have been trying this with the idea of '15 minute cities' where work, shops, play & sleep are all within a 15min walk.. But obviously that only really works if towns are designed that way from the outset. Home working & shopping reduces some trafiic, but not all. But then there's the huge amounts of more rural America where personal transportation is more of a necessity.

          Of course, no sane person would use public low-fare transportation in any of our cities if it could be avoided...

          Yeh, in the UK, we can be forced to. So commuting into London as an example. There's usually no parking at work sites, and lots of congestion on the road. But also lots of congestion on our creaking public transport, as well as price gouging. Plus other costs. I'm an insomniac and sometimes watch a stream from a news stringer driving around LA, and driving past LA's Metro. Fun for me to do virtual sight-seeing and try & spot locations from movies and shows. But sometimes drives past LA Metro stops saying 'nobody uses it'. No idea why, but passenger figures seem to back that up. Hugely expensive to build, not practical for every city, doesn't really work without feeder buses or trams and not very practical for doing the familie's weekly shop.

          Which is kind of the problem in general for EVs. Nice idea, if your use case can support one, so relatively short distance commuting or the occaisional shop or school run.

      4. Casca Silver badge

        Re: Yawn...

        Easy when you are subsided by the government...

    3. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Yawn...

      I just want my gasoline prices back to $1.85 per gallon

      Other than in the immediate aftermath of covid gas prices haven't been that low since before 9/11.

      Though if you look at them in inflation adjusted dollars they are right about where they were up until after WW II when we started propping up middle east dictators to get cheap gas, and significantly lower than during the OPEC embargoes.

      1. EricB123 Silver badge

        Re: Yawn...

        Try moving overseas, Petrol starts at $5 for 4 liters (or gallon, more or less) and goes up from there. Not a single F150 here!

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Yawn...

          Venezuela has really cheap gas, perhaps the US could learn from the Venezuelan political model?

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: Yawn...

            Its cheap because they subsidize it heavily. It has nothing to do with their political system.

        2. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Yawn...

          Because it is heavily taxed in Europe.

          Back in the 90s a third party presidential candidate (Ross Perot) wanted to add 50 cents to the gas tax, to balance the budget and encourage conservation. I remember thinking that was a great idea but what I'd rather do was add 10 cents to the gas tax every year. That would be something that wouldn't have the major impact a 50 cent tax (which would be nearly a 50% increase from prices at the time) but automakers would see it going up every year and be able to plan for it.

          Then we wouldn't have needed fuel economy regulations, consumers would have wanted more fuel efficient vehicles and automakers would have supplied them. We'd have an extra $3 per gallon tax by now so prices would be around $6. We wouldn't need any tax credits for hybrids or EVs, people would have wanted them as a way to save money. Only problem I could see would be the move to EVs would create a huge hole in the budget from losing all those billions that $3 tax would add up to.

  2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Geniuses .... a Dummies’ Guide

    Oh dear. What a palaver. And it is going to get worse still for the West because of the way the American dream is planned to be.

    Rampant runaway inflation because of the entertainmemt of compound interest and profit ...... which is money for nothing extra making everything more expensive to buy than to produce ..... eventually, very quickly makes everything too expensive to both produce and purchase at an artificially elevated cost ...... and the masterplan is to think to deny nations the affordable products from neighbours who haven't followed the counsel of fools and carpetbaggers?

    Yeah, that'll keep the natives happy and prevent them from revolting. What a load of plonkers.

  3. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge
    Facepalm

    "defend its rights"

    China always talks about their rights when tariffs are increased or one of their corporations is banned. What rights do foreigner companies have in China? Zero.

    I suppose we could buy Chinese cars, use them until they break in a couple of years, then strip out the precious metals that China originally refused to export.

    1. IGotOut Silver badge

      Re: "defend its rights"

      From what I've heard, the Chinese EV's are pretty good (I know one with an MG and loves it).

      Still, could buy a $100,000 Tesla with an interior that is outclassed by an entry level Kia

      1. EricB123 Silver badge

        Re: "defend its rights"

        Here in Asia, I'm seeing less Fords and Chevys, but more and more Geelys and Cherys.

        America becoming a giant island, perhaps?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "defend its rights"

        > From what I've heard, the Chinese EV's are pretty good (I know one with an MG and loves it).

        Pity that the Chinese have evolved quite fast from internal combustion engines to spontaneous combustion batteries.

  4. pavlecom
    IT Angle

    Nobody Cares About Western Brands in China ..

    "So, when automakers, tech companies and regulators push back on China, the sentiments that they’re just protecting our market from unsafe or security-challenged products feel hollow. Instead, it feels like grandstanding, and a tacit admission that they have no intention of trying to do better.

    Instead of competing, they’d rather just shut out competition entirely. The concerns about cybersecurity don’t address the elephant in the room here: Your product sucks, compared to what China is putting out now. It doesn’t go as far. It’s not as well-made. It’s not as nice. It’s not as connected."

    InsideEVs

    P.S. "I’d later learn that the auto show had more than 100 new model debuts and concepts. That’s a far cry from the Detroit Auto Show last September, which only featured one fully new model. Two other models were refreshed versions of current cars already on sale. None were electric."

    Nobody Cares About Western Brands in China.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nobody Cares About Western Brands in China ..

      > Nobody Cares About Western Brands in China.

      I wish nobody cared commenting their Chinese propaganda on El Reg either.

  5. Tron Silver badge

    No low cost Chinese EV revolution? Look on the bright side.

    No need to rush the EV charger roll out any more as EVs will be expensive and restricted to the wealthy. The real profit will be in ICE vehicle parts and refurbs. A good refurb can take an ICE vehicle back to better-than-showroom with some after market accessories. And maybe stop flogging those scavenged car parts to the developing world by the shipping container. They may be worth more at home when new ICE are banned.

    Didn't the Americans panic like this over Japanese cars a while back too?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The WTO has already ruled those tariffs [are] against WTO rules.

    That never stopped China from dumping. Just say'in.

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