back to article iFixit hails replaceable LPCAMM2 laptop memory as a 'big deal'

LPCAMM2 memory is getting the thumbs up from the team at iFixit, which hailed it as a return to the upgradeable laptop and reckons the writing is on the wall for models with soldered-down, non-serviceable memory. The LPCAMM2 form factor is getting its first outing in Lenovo’s ThinkPad P1 Gen 7 system, as reported by The …

  1. trevorde Silver badge

    Meanwhile at Apple

    [Tim Cook] WTF? People still use laptops???

    [marketing droid] Yeah, I think we sold a couple last year. Maybe.

    1. Yankee Doodle Doofus Bronze badge

      Re: Meanwhile at Apple

      Sarcasm? I don't know the numbers, but I'd wager that Apple sells more laptops than any other single manufacturer.

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile at Apple

        Indeed, not an apple fan by any means, but their laptops are very slim with very good battery life, colleague uses one for doing electrical certs and stuff at work, never needs to find a socket

      2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile at Apple

        You would lose that bet.

        Dell, Lonovo and AFAIK HP sell more laptops that Apple but they (Apple) don't care that much. As long as their fanbois are happy then so are they.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meanwhile at Apple

      My Macbook Pro (M1) lasts all day without dropping below 50% charge left. That includes a decent amount of YouTube video watching.

      The previous Intel powered laptop (i5) barely lasted 6 hours before needing a full charge.

      I'm sure that future chips from Intel and AMD will sip power but until they go down the SOC route the Apple device will out crunch the opposition. With the M4 having a very, very powerful Neural Engine, there is a lot of catching up to do. AFAIK, Qualcomm is working hard to get there.

      Interesting times

      1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile at Apple

        Apple battery life entirely depends on use. If you're surfing the web and running cloud apps, the tiny bit of SoC RAM saves a lot of power. Try compiling and debugging software on the same computer. Now the power cost of compressed memory and swap is could be 10x to 1000x the cost of more RAM. It might even abruptly lose power from the motherboard overheating.

        The problem with Apple is that their hardware meets your needs or it's worthless. You significantly over-spend at purchase time to make sure you have future needs covered. That's a very expensive way to buy hardware and it's exactly what Apple wants.

        I know that the counter argument is that most people never do RAM intensive work on their Apple device and it's all good and working perfectly. That's correct, because most people needing RAM buy something else. That's me. I'll look for LPCAMM2.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Meanwhile at Apple

          And, of course, there's very little choice with Apple. Don't care for their chiclet keyboard? Too bad. Want an isometric mouse built into the keyboard? Too bad.

          I don't like Dell or HP machines, and Lenovo's Thinkpads aren't as good as IBM's used to be. And yes, the x86 CPUs are burdened in various ways by having to support a lot of historical baggage, and sometimes I idly consider getting an ARM or RISC-V laptop and just ditching Windows entirely (I really only need it because of my insistence on running TurboTax locally). But x86 PC-compatible laptops continue to offer the broadest array of hardware choices.

  2. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Linux

    I'm always a couple or three years behind the times

    So my first research when looking for a new-to-me, previously-enjoyed laptop is what memory modules are available for it.

    Then, has anyone got Linux on it yet (usually the answer is yes.)

  3. Crypto Monad Silver badge

    "unless the connector adds significant cost to a laptop bill of materials, it is difficult to see why it would not appear in more models."

    I'm sure Apple can think of some good reasons not to use it. The same reasons that they also solder their SSDs to the motherboard. It is not to do with trace lengths.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Apple: “Because Screw You, That’s Why™️”

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      They don't solder "SSDs" because they don't use SSDs

      Unlike Intel and AMD, Apple has a NAND controller on their SoC, so they don't use "SSDs", they use raw NAND. Some of their models have that in a module that can be replaced, but no one sells raw NAND and probably won't start until either Intel or AMD put a NAND controller on chip.

      1. Roj Blake Silver badge

        Re: They don't solder "SSDs" because they don't use SSDs

        How convenient.

  4. Bartholomew
    Meh

    Milk-V Oasis should use LPCAMM2

    But it does depend on the availability of LPCAMM2 modules in Q3 2024. The SG280 SoC used on the board, at least on paper, should be able to support up to 128 GiB of RAM.

    ( ref: https://community.milkv.io/t/introducing-the-milk-v-oasis-with-sg2380-a-revolutionary-risc-v-desktop-experience/780/58 )

    Does anyone know if ECC is part of the LPCAMM2 specification (yet) ?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    JESD318 Ver. 1.02 Spec available here.

    Full JESD318 Ver. 1.02 spec available here, for free ----> [Legit company was part of S&P Global, need to register your Login ID Only .... ]

    https://store.accuristech.com/standards/jedec-jesd-318?product_id=2577474

  6. williamyf Bronze badge

    Is it the end of SO-DIMM? NO!

    CAMM2 has something that SO-DIMM does not: The possibility to have LP-DDR(5)

    But SO-DIMM has something that CAMM2 does not: ECC-Memory

    CAMM2 and LP-CAMM2 are designed for instances where the Z dimension is important (say LAptops and AIOs)

    SO-DIMM is more suited where XY is more premium than Z (say NUC type computers, Small servers and such)

    And, if you want ECC with that (say, workstation replacement laptops, or Small form factor servers) So-DIMM is your only choice for ECC

    1. -tim

      Re: Is it the end of SO-DIMM? NO!

      With the number of ECC errors a few of my systems log, I find ECC is essential. Note that most systems don't log ECC corrections, only full failures but there are CPU counters that can hint at increases in ECC corrections. When the reports come out "oh, no the sun is sending another massive solar flare!" , I will see an increase in ECC errors. It seems that modern systems are still taking shortcuts with ECC and I suspect that only the obsolete SPARC is the only things that had true RAM to register ECC. ECC is also about the only real memory protection on shared systems for things like RowHammer. I don't understand how so many people consider it optional on critical systems.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it the end of SO-DIMM? NO!

      According to the latest standard JESD318 Version 1.02.

      ECC is supported .... both in Single & Dual Channel.

      :)

  7. Tron Silver badge

    Laptops don't have upgradeable RAM? Since when?

    Every laptop I own has memory slots. Have people been buying them without upgrade options? The cheapest way to get one has always been to bag an ex-corporate refurb, max out the memory and pop in a new battery. I guess everyone else on here is richer than me.

    1. Bob Dunlop

      Re: Laptops don't have upgradeable RAM? Since when?

      Just replaced the swollen battery in my 5+ year old laptop. Whilst at it I looked at the second empty SODIMM slot an thought "should I add more RAM?", decided against it as I've not run into memory issues.

      Are there really people out there that buy devices without repairable replaceable parts?

      1. Mishak Silver badge

        Re: Laptops don't have upgradeable RAM? Since when?

        Probably most of the average "consumer" types that don't just use their phone for "IT".

        At least, most of the people I've help over the years when their Windows laptop slows down have only considered "get a new one" as a fix. They are surprised what a difference it makes replacing the spinning disk for an SSD (for example)...

      2. Annihilator

        Re: Laptops don't have upgradeable RAM? Since when?

        Probably the reason that a lot of manufacturers aren't making things like memory a serviceable item. Like you, I've got a 5 year old laptop that has SODIMM slots - and not once have I utilised that feature. I've upgraded a laptop's HDD in the past, but only to replace it with an SSD.

        When they start soldering memory and storage onto a desktop motherboard, that's when I'll get angsty. Until then, I'll accept that laptops are more and more becoming commodity items.

  8. osxtra
    FAIL

    In A World...

    "While users have grown used to buying laptops with a fixed amount of memory fitted at manufacture..."

    Who are these "users"? Soldered components that have traditionally been user-replacable is the reason I won't purchase anything Fruity these days...

  9. nijam Silver badge

    > ... leading to LPDDR being soldered down...

    Won't stop Apple trying it with LPCAMM2 of course.

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