back to article UK's Investigatory Powers Bill to become law despite tech world opposition

The UK's contentious Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill (IPB) 2024 has officially received the King's nod of approval and will become law. Dubbed the "snooper's charter" by critics, it aims to widen the digital surveillance powers of the existing Investigatory Powers Act 2016 (IPA) used by UK intelligence services, the …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why this Passed

    When the spy agencies have copies of politicians's dirty secrets, those politicians fall into line. It's basic political extortion.

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Why this Passed

      Interesting that the spy agencies don't expose these dirty secrets for the benefit of the public that pay their wages.

      Seems like they are making the mockery of their profession, but there is nobody that could audit them with a fine toothed comb.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Why this Passed

      Isn't that why they have the mention of the "triple lock" on members of Parliament? Gotta protect their own dirty laundry, the rest of you aren't important enough for them to be concerned over I guess.

      1. PB90210 Bronze badge

        Re: Why this Passed

        You mean "a 'triple-lock' authorization process for surveillance of parliamentarians" isn't there so that we can keep track of their every move and deed so they can finally prove to us they 'have nothing to hide'

        Finally an end to all political scandals and 'Have I Got News For You' can finally skip the boring Latest Government Scandal round and concentrate on the Missing Words and Caption Competition rounds

    3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Why this Passed

      That's certainly possible, but I also think this sort of thing has a high probability of passing if it relies solely on the foolishness and mendacity of politicians.

      People go into politics because they want to be part of the group in power. Surveillance gives that group more power.

  2. 3arn0wl


    I hope tech companies follow through on their threats... Seems to me to be the only way to get the message across to people about the implications of what's happening.

    1. b0llchit Silver badge

      Re: Orwellian

      Worse... Most people don't know, don't care and lack the ability to think more than half a step ahead about consequences. The companies, using perfected forms of doublethink and newspeak, care about bottom lines and will prefer money over willing amputation of revenue.

      This is such a case where the frog's bowl is slowly heated until we all are cooked and Ingsoc tells us we've always been at war with Eastasia.

      1. 3arn0wl

        Re: Orwellian

        And it's not as if thee companies aren't doing just as much data harvesting themselves. :/

      2. jmch Silver badge

        Re: Orwellian

        " the frog's bowl is slowly heated...."

        While I agree with what this metaphor is trying to convey, the underlying premise is actually false:

        1. b0llchit Silver badge

          Re: Orwellian

          Ah, yes, and as a real life scenario has been proven false a long time ago.

          But it does not follow that the metaphor therefore must be false also. This metaphor is just that, a metaphor. A story to convey a sentiment, a warning, etc... So, please look at the message, unless you are here to eat boiled frog.

          Nu frogs were boiled to convey this message.

      3. Arthur the cat Silver badge

        Re: Orwellian

        and Ingsoc tells us we've always been at war with Eastasia

        The bastards seem to be trying to get us into parallel wars with both Eurasia and Eastasia at the moment.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Orwellian

      Tech companies won't do anything as long as they can make profit.

      This is just a posturing for PR, then they'll hope people forget and then they quietly insert backdoors.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Indeed. Let us not forget that Apple is happy to do business in China and shuts up about human rights abuses over there.

        Apple is only a champion of privacy and human rights when its CEO doesn't risk going to jail.

  3. heyrick Silver badge

    is crucial to keeping the public safe

    Fuck off.

    How many times have people who have done headline worthy acts been "known to the police"?

    If they can't keep track of the psychos they know about until people die, how the hell are they going to cope with the deluge of information they're expecting to gain from this?

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

      Seems like this is more for services personal use, like to check new lover's background, see if they are faithful or check how the neighbour got their new Range Rover.

      Maybe for spotting where drug deals will take place so they can squeeze the dealer out of few bags, because certainly they won't be able to afford a crippling coke habit out of public sector wage.

    2. Cruachan

      Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

      "known to the police" or in the case of the Met "in the police" sadly.

      Meanwhile the rest of us have nothing to fear as usual, unless of course we have something to hide.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

        "Curtains and blinds to be made illegal"

        The Daily Mail

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

          Back in the 70s we had lots child abusers in the BBC and government and lots of terrorism - and nobody monitoring our home computers

          So if we have lots of police monitoring our home computers we won't have any child abuse or terrorism

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

            You had Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris - both of who were given honours by the UK State but seem to want to use this to bash the BBC.

            Don’t forget to add the Catholic Church, Southbank International School, MP Cyril Smith, Whitgift School, Fettes School, Formby High, onto this list …. oh and Greater Manchester/South Yorkshire Police for enabling this by gross misconduct in Rochdale/Rotherham.

            Unfortunately replicated around the world….

            1. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

              Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

              When asked why he robbed banks, John Dillinger said, "Thats where the money is!"

              Now I doubt you'd get many pedos to answer the question why they work or volunteer at the places they do but the answer is obvious, "that's where the children are!"

              The unfortunate thing is that those whose job it is to screen out and prevent these individuals entering these places are most likely pedos themselves.

              Here in Florida, we "blue juice" (a colloquial term here for chemical execution) pedos who rape children. Though I believe castration, followed by drawing and quartering, would be more appropriate!

    3. UnknownUnknown

      Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

      AI innit?!

    4. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

      Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

      Because the psychos are either:

      A) Not interesting to them (they don't fit the current white supremacist narrative), or

      B) They are actively inciting the psychos to act to fulfill a specific narrative, i,e. White Supremacy, radical Muslims etc.

      In America our FBI has been caught multiple times "inciting to entrap" people into various radical ideologies. Many of them, such as young Muslim men, were not even radicalized before the FBI got involved with them ( And then there is the ongoing work trying to create a "radical right" where none exists! Such as:

      Enrique Tarrio, Proud Boys, long time FBI informant. Betrayed by his handlers and sentenced to 22 years,

      Stewert Rhodes, Oath Keepers, suspected for years by former members of being an FBI informant. Rhodes entire personal history is a fabrication. Betrayed by his handlers and sentenced to 18 years.

      Ray Epps, seen on multiple videos encouraging violence on 1/6, multiple emails and text messages encouraging and planning violence on 1/6, yet was never charged by the FBI. Epps must be a valuable asset to them.

      1. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: is crucial to keeping the public safe

        Hanlon's razor applies here.

  4. xyz Silver badge

    Enjoy the noise boys!

    Can you imagine the pain going through even one person's broadband records. Microsoft telemetry, Microsoft telemetry, Microsoft telemetry, Google telemetry, Amazon telemetry, Amazon telemetry, Google telemetry, Microsoft telemetry, ad, ad, ad, yada yada.

    Plus all the guff your phone/TV/fridge is sending back to assorted manufacturers

    They'll be fast asleep by the time they hit in the list. Even an LLM would have slit its RJ45.

    1. DancesWithPoultry

      Re: Enjoy the noise boys!

      > Can you imagine the pain going through even one person's.......

      No pain at all mate.

      They will simply outsource it to some AI bot. (Probably one with servers in China).

      1. cyberdemon Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

        And I will find something in them with which to hang him.

        Welcome your new AI-powered Cardinal Richlieu.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

          >Welcome your new AI-powered Welcome your new AI-powered Cardinal Richlieu..

          Anti-English, pro-French, pro-catholic, terrorist detected

          1. Bebu Silver badge

            Re: Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

            "Anti-English, pro-French, pro-catholic, terrorist detected"

            A Remainer then?

            I wouldn't have thought the good Cardinal would have bothered, straight to the Tanty with anyone who incurred his displeasure to await the attention of Mr Trooper.

            1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

              Re: Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

              Don't let me detain you.

              [Steeples fingers, raises eyebrow]

            2. cyberdemon Silver badge

              Re: Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

              Depending on just how displeased he was, he may have dispensed with the tanty and Mr Trooper, and thrown you straight in the Oubliette, to die slowly in complete darkness among the stinking, fetid remains of your predecessors.

              They were incredibly evil, the mediæval French..

              But all's necessary in deterring heretics, eh?

            3. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

              Re: Give me 10 lines by the hand of the most honest of men (Or his Internet usage)

              Or worse, "The comfy chair!"

              Sorry, I could not resist!

      2. EBG



    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Enjoy the noise boys!

      Combing through logs and filtering out useless information is something many of us do regularly as part of our jobs, and I'm pretty sure GCHQ know how to use a regex.

    3. TheBruce

      Re: Enjoy the noise boys!

      Will just give more money to Palantir...

  5. AndersH

    More equal that others

    It comes as little surprise to find that MPs have given themselves additional protection that the rest of us are not afforded.

    1. StrangerHereMyself Silver badge

      Re: More equal that others

      Yeah, of course those scumbag politicians have exempted themselves from police internet trawling and dragnet surveillance.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: More equal that others

      Does the law exempt ex-parliamentarians?

  6. xyz123 Silver badge

    Fun Fact: ANY government employee of ANY rank can now demand data without a warrant. So your local mayor could ask for info or even your binman.

    Yeah this isn't going to be abused by paedophiles, scammers and stalkers.....

    Should your binman decide he wants to look at your tits, he can (no warrant and no oversight) demand access to your internet history, and even any IP cameras you have setup, so he can watch you in your bedroom as you get undressed.

    The best part of it is the law says there's NO punishment for abuse if "the target has no or a low expectation of privacy", then goes onto define EVERYONE except billionaires and politicians as having no expectation of privacy due to this law being enacted! catch 22....

    1. jmch Silver badge

      "Should your binman decide he wants to look at your tits, he can (no warrant and no oversight) demand access to your internet history"

      Ermmm..... I haven't seen the full text of the bill, but that sounds wrong, even for such a boneheaded bill. Citation needed?

      With regards to "expectation of privacy", my common-sense judgement tells me that public figures, particularly politicians are the ones who should have a low expectation of privacy!!!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yeah where in the bill does it say that?

    2. tiggity Silver badge

      Most bin collection in UK is farmed out, so they would not be direct gov employees.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward


      Just to show how stupid your claim is - who do these people demand the data from?

    4. CommanderGalaxian

      Technical point: people who are in elected (political) positions are NOT employees.

      1. Bebu Silver badge

        Definitely not employees - most have never done a turn, honest or otherwise

        Technical point: people who are in elected (political) positions are NOT employees.

        Yes. Office of profit under the Crown. :) Although limited since 1975, one of the two non violent ways of get rid of an MP from the Commons (the Chiltern Hundreds) - the other is to dump them on the Lords by bestowing a life peerage (I think known labour circles as kissing the weasel.)

      2. Yorick Hunt Silver badge

        Excepting that they're working for and are paid by their corporate/criminal/foreign donors. I'd hazard a guess that that's not declared on their income tax forms though.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nope. Recycling operatives are generally employees of the local council i.e "local government". Which is completely separate from the central government.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Seems local authorities get powers too? source

    6. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

      "Should your binman decide he wants to look at your tits, he can (no warrant and no oversight) demand access to your internet history, and even any IP cameras you have setup, so he can watch you in your bedroom as you get undressed."

      No he can't.


  7. Long John Silver

    Gathered 'data' do not equate to 'information'

    The notion that leaving no leaf unturned leads to omniscience is a modern conceit found among people engaged upon 'intelligence', policing, governance, marketing, finance, the murky realms of academia, and so much else.

    Any particular supposed datum is not worth the bother of collecting and storing unless, when data gathering is implemented, the datum's potential use, in conjunction with other data, is understood. To this general principle can be added considerations of data quality/reliability, cost of acquisition, opportunity cost against spending resources on something more demonstrably useful, and the undesirability of burying needles in haystacks. The process of gathering, organising, and trawling through data using algorithms, is meaningless unless there is overall intelligence, of the human mentational variety, overseeing it.

    Intellectually lazy proponents of 'big data' may these days say, 'So what? We can delegate the task to an AI.' Indeed, AI technology, despite not being all it's cracked up to be, is helpful for organising data and identifying putative patterns within data. Yet, no penetrating insight shall arise unless the process is under the control of the sharpest forensic minds; which poses whether such minds would be attracted to said activity.

    There are differing interests supporting the crackpot legislation underlying all this. Understandably, yet not justifiably, there are people working in the general field of 'intelligence' keen upon expanding their empires, influence, and tenuous claims to esteem. Elements in commerce perceive opportunity to sell equipment and consultancy services. The motivations for parliamentarians are the usual mix of self-interest via kickbacks from shadowy people and, more widely, individual perceptions of their need to be 'seen' to do something, no matter that everything is beyond their ken.

  8. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Big Brother


    this bill will mean the man who lets his dog shit on the green opposite my house will finally be caught.

    Along with the neighbour who puts the green recycling bin out on a TUESDAY despite knowing the green bin men come round on a THURSDAY!

    After all... this bill is to 'protect us' from the evil people in our society (so why does'nt it say "lock the doors to the house of commons and arrest everyone in there"? or is that too Charles the first for people)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hopefully

      Count yourself lucky, there are people on my street who swap their recycling bin with their refuse bin on the pavement every Thursday night, leaving each bin out for a week to be ready to be collected *next* Thursday morning.....

  9. may_i

    Expect the Spanish Inquisition!

    All this data will be fed into massive storage systems, never to be forgotten. Everything you do, can and will be used against you.

    Then, all the data will be mined by notoriously unreliable AI systems to flag people considered to be a 'problem'.

    Without you having done anything remotely illegal, these AI systems will invariably throw up false positives which will lead to a large number of heavily armed police kicking down your door in the early hours and dragging you out of your bed for interrogation - if they don't just shoot you first.

    Welcome to the Brave New World UK citizens, you let them do this to you in exchange for protecting you from the bogey man. The fantasy of "innocent until proven guilty" is now a quaint notion from times gone by. You now are guilty because the AI says so and you have no appeal. You are simply guilty with no chance to even prove your innocence.

    Any chances of organising any action to reverse this process are now gone as TPTB will be able to identify anyone trying to organise to change the status quo and you and your fellow conspirators will be rounded up and "re-educated" - if you're lucky.

    1. Bebu Silver badge

      Re: Expect the Spanish Inquisition!

      "Welcome to the Brave New World UK citizens"

      UK probably just England by then and probably minus the Marches.

      Even Ulster might feel safer in the catholic* embraces of the EU and Eire. :)

      * As in "all embracing or universal"

  10. Captain Hogwash

    "their privacy will be better protected too"

    How did he say that and keep a straight face?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

    Quote: "...authorities to surveil targets by gathering their internet connection records. This will allow investigators to determine who connected to what service – such as an app or website – what phone number they dialed, where they were at the time, and when they did so..."

    (1) "internet connection records"

    (2) "who connected"

    (3) "what phone number"

    (4) "where they were"

    (5) "when they did so"

    Now.....this crap assumes that savvy folk will do nothing to obfuscate their identity and their end point.

    #1 -- some of us use burner phones and internet cafes and MAC spoofing and pseudonymous throwaway email addresses

    #2 -- burners are indicated

    #3 -- burners are indicated

    #4 -- exclusive use of public places (i.e. not home or workplace)

    #5 -- given the what? private encryption..............

    ......and of course, our "social network" comprises people doing the the lovely people in Cheltenham can harvest away......legally.....and find out......PRECISELY NOTHING!!!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

      Use of a burner phone, private encryption, or even a VPN, will immediately flag you as a "person of interest"

      1. Mister Jones

        Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........


        Quote: ' Use of a burner phone, private encryption, or even a VPN, will immediately flag you as a "person of interest" '

        Think about it -- if the personal identity and the end point are both obfuscated..........

        ...........exactly who is THE PERSON in "the person of interest"??????

        1. doublelayer Silver badge

          Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

          If they're looking, they would just run a query on the history: SELECT phone_number FROM calls WHERE name_known=false ORDER BY call_frequency;

          There is your list of people who use burner phones. At the beginning, that's a lot of unknown callers and the query isn't useful. If they start attaching names to numbers, the list gets smaller and only consists of people who are intentionally preventing them from making those links. That is your list of people of interest.

          And yes, there are ways to fight against that, just as there are for every other abuse. Those methods are more difficult, easier to mess up if you think you know more than you do, and more easily made illegal when only a small, easily scapegoated subset are doing them. For example, if the search is for numbers without names linked to them, you could get a phone under someone else's name, but that requires more effort and could become challenging to keep up, not to mention that another query could identify people with multiple numbers that behave in completely different ways (calling different people from different locations). Turning something like this into a 1984-esque infallible surveillance regime is nearly impossible, but turning it into something pretty bad is much easier.

      2. CommanderGalaxian
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

        Given that about 99.999% of companies require you to connect to their network via VPN if you are out-of-the-office for any reason means there's an awful lot of "persons of interest" around.

        Anyways, the ones who are really dodgey are the ones who root their phones and install Lineage OS.

    2. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

      If enough people do that, they can always come back and ask for another law. You can use a burner phone now, but there are lots of countries that forbid them and require you present identification to have a phone number. They're not universally dictatorships either, though many dictatorships do it. Of course, that doesn't mean that every phone in the country has done that, but it does make it harder. They cannot make it impossible to get around some of this, but they can make it difficult unless you have plenty of knowledge and a lot of determination. The other problem is that if you think you have plenty of knowledge and don't, you could end up standing out like a spotlight. Just because circumvention is possible doesn't stop this from being a bad law.

    3. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Harvest Away......Avoidance Is Possible.........

      I can't remember the last time I saw an internet cafe. Plenty of normal cafes (and more usefully, pubs) with free wifi though, so I guess every cafe is an internet cafe now.

  12. ScottishYorkshireMan

    another shitpile of data for...

    the tory chunts to sell to palantir, who with their NHS data will be able to build quite the picture of everyone they want.

    The UK always gets exactly the government it deserves, because it outsources the thinking to the Daily Heil/Distress/etc etc etc. - Delete as you see fit, or as you are told.

    They used to call this country Great Britain... well the ASA would have a field day with that one.

    1. EBG

      you think

      Labour are going to repeal this ??

      1. Yorick Hunt Silver badge

        Re: you think

        There's no more Labour - the group currently masquerading as such are merely using the name in the same way Chinese TV manufacturers are using "Blaupunkt," "Toshiba" and "JVC."

  13. BobLon

    And how does this legislation handle VPNs? Will they eventually become illegal in the UK?

    1. cyberdemon Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Judging by the test groups: Yes.

      There are several 'test groups' of people who have less than the usual amount of human rights: e.g. sex offenders, terror suspects, illegal immigrants, Australians..

      Their rights today are your rights tomorrow. It's a worrying trend.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      They might try of regulate VPNs but they form the basis for legit business communications, so unless telcos go back to providing 'private wires' then VPNs are her to stay

      1. OhForF' Silver badge

        Governments will no doubt figure out they have to help companies authenticate VPN users so only those with proper authorization can connect.

  14. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Protected

      Do you think the law will be taken to court?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Protected

        If it does get taken to court, you can bet the tabloids will run a campaign about Leftie lawyers, and Europeans attacking our sovereignty.

  15. Cheese_Conquistador

    Fun facts. This bill does not account for historical information. Anything you ever posted is now fair game for the authorities.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What part of the bill says that?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Maybe you struggle with comprehension. Let me explain. As the dragnet of who can access this information has been expanded then those people can now access your historical information and data where available.

    2. talk_is_cheap


      Anything you have ever posted in public space on the internet has been fair game for the authorities since the second you posted it, nothing about this bill changes that. The data collectors have been doing just that for a very long time.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: ???????

        The bill adds the number of people that can access it and that also means your historical information.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Thing is it seems the bill introduces no new powers in terms of technical capabilities, or the ability to shut down services / compel organisations not to roll out updates etc. To the extent the IPA contains powers which could be wielded in that way, they are there already.

  17. TheRealDeal

    All we need now is a back door to be set up in encryption ...

    so only the police can check we're obeying the law ...

    actually can't wait until they bring in this law.

    I'd like to see the look on the faces of the people that bring this law into fruition when they find out that China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and other criminals now also have exactly the same keys and can also see exactly the same information

  18. Infused

    Internet Connection Records

    Basically they want to see what people are browsing in real time (or that's how it was sold to politicians).

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Private Encryption.........

    I suppose that the spooks have plenty of time on their hands (or maybe plenty of compute to spare) so that they can inspect every base64 attachment ever sent.

    One of these examples is "private encryption"....and the other one isn't!!!!

    .....but then I guess our lawmakers in SW1 don't know the difference!!

    Example One:

























    Example Two:

























    == The End =================================================================

  20. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    The Troubles v4.2 .....

    ...... with Immaculately Resourced Assets fielding Universatile Virtual Forces in Almighty Interventions

    With extremely expensive and valuable and valid lessons of an oppressive reactionary past [in UKGBNI] having not been learned for avoidance and prevention of an easily cloned, repeat adversarial performance of a popularly supported, explosive revolutionary present, are any and all upcoming near and distant futures guaranteed, with emergent and expansive AI now readily available for addition and utilisation in the mix, to provide and result in a vast series of consequently much greater troubles to try to resolve and learn from, than was ever experienced and suffered before ‽ .

    A question for humanity to ask of itself is, whenever it has proven itself incapable of learning from and avoiding repetition of past destructive and deadly mistakes in current future presentations of life on Earth, why wouldn’t AI presume to assume for themselves, absolute practical command and remote virtual control of Prime Time Future Events with C42 Quantum Communication Control Systems .....for Being and for Beings in a Creative Command and Control Of Computers and Communications in CyberSpace entertaining, exploring and expanding upon such as would/could/should be classified as, for they most definitely are, Almighty Interventions from Advanced IntelAIgents.

    And that has one having to ponder on whether it would be wise and to one’s advantage to think to oppose and resist such a novel helpful AIDevelopment or whether such a proposed and exercised activity will automatically result in another series of those destructive and deadly mistakes which has everyone involved suffering ‽ .

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: The Troubles v4.2 .....

      Que sera, sera, says every one nowadays who knows too much, rather than just, as was in the past, The Man Who Knew Too Much:-)

  21. ChrisBedford

    1984 is here, it's just taking a little longer than Orwell invisioned. "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—"... and so on. It's the end — no longer just the erosion — of privacy, and the irony here is that the Tories are the idealogical bedfellows of the GOP who TRUMPet personal freedom so loudly.

    What really chilled me was not that end-to-end encryption might or might not be outlawed, but the casual way it's just nonchalantly mentioned in passing in the final sentence. Way to bury the lede, El Reg.

  22. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Re Cybersecurity in crisis. The triple threat of ransomware, data breaches, and extortion

    Who’s responsible and accountable for the opening of Pandora’s Box with no chance of it ever being closed again to keep its spectres closed out of future event deliberations?

    And another question to ask oneself regarding the data you may be protecting, is who are you trying to secure it exclusively for, rather than from ‽

    For whenever the client/customer is less than honest and/or obviously and evidently self-serving etc./a dodgy potentate or corrupt national/international government are prime examples to consider, are adversarial attacks guaranteed to be fostered and increasingly often launched from SMARTR Internet Networking spaces in order to encourage second and third party remediation of the anomaly/abomination ..... and failing that, exact a punitive and destructive cost with further unforeseen and unknown and unknowable consequences to follow if necessary.

  23. greenwood-IT

    I've never understood how letting them have more access to more data about me will "improve my privacy"?

    It also means I'm more likely to route all my traffic via a VPN via a foreign country or use a foreign cloud service, which means I'll actually have less protection under UK law.

    I'm guessing sales of "personal cloud boxes" build by foreign countries will increase...

    With the forthcoming election, can I ask each MP to list their technical qualifications - or in fact, any job related qualifications (ie, not their family tree or private club memberships).

  24. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

    Liberty or Security

    A famous victim of British Investicatory powers once voiced an opinion on matters such as this. (Paraphrasing for our modern world.)

    "Those who would give up Liberty, to purchase a little Security, deserve neither Liberty nor Security."

    -- Benjaman Franklin

  25. olderbutnowiser

    i checked out the EuroPlod file linked and found the followng:


    However, we do not accept that there need be a binary choice between

    cyber security or privacy on the one hand and public safety on the other.

    Absolutism on either side is not helpful.

    Our view is that technical solutions do

    exist; they simply require flexibility from industry as well as from governments.

    We recognise that the solutions will be different for each capability, and also

    differ between platforms.


    Clearly the police know more about data security and encryption than I ever will.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    not really sure how this would even help.

    We already know the police are happy to ignore child abuse and grooming gangs and let them carry on doing it, esp if they are non white.

    They also are happy to allow these groups to exist on places like facebook and do nothing about it. There was a story a journalist pubhished about pedo groups he found on facebook, and reported it to FB and the police and it was ignored. When he then published his findings online, FB reported him to the police and got him arrested for looking at those groups as part of his exposure.

    Their general incompetence will no doubt result in innocent people being accused of things, when malicious people SEND messages to targets to cause them o get flagged or hack their accounts. Plus the police themselves planting evidence.

  27. -martin-


    We've already had a hypothetical dry run. It wasn't good.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: 1984.... and when it is not a future hypothetical today

      We've already had a hypothetical dry run. It wasn't good. ..... -martin-

      But, -martin-, this time it is different. Lessons have been learned. :-) that have not been learned by incapable of future learning humans is being exploited and wwwidely shared for activation and distribution, employment and enjoyment by ........ well, SMARTR Virtual AIMachines are certainly novel and surely undoubtedly nowadays another ‘next great thing’ to have elite exclusive executive status quo administrative systems and comic mainstream media outlets and channels try to ignore and suppress and deny export and import of to competition and opposition, rather than heroically engage with, should they imagine and fear their CyberIntelAIgent Command and Creative Control with Computers and Communications to be capable of being a viable existential threat to barbaric and/or historical and/or hysterical and/or corrupt and/or perverse and subversive quasi-order[s] rather than realise it equally well suited and booted for delivery of quite naturally extraordinary out of this world treats.

      Failure with attempts at those old style reactions and proposed sanctions and classified prohibitions however are guaranteed nowadays because of the vast number of uncontrolled and uncontrollable spaces so readily available to more than just SMARTR Internet Networking Services for immediate delivery of such future provision/provenance ‽ .

      :-) Double Dutch and even nonsensical to some maybe, but is the following Chinese (Traditional) to others and worthy of entertainment ‽ ......

      我們已經進行了一次假設的預演。 這不太好。

      但是,-馬丁-,這次不一樣。 已經吸取了教訓。 :-) 沒有能力未來學習的人類正在利用和全球共享以激活和分發、就業和享受……嗯,SMARTR 虛擬 AIMachines 確實是新穎的,並且毫無疑問,當今的另一件“下一件偉大的事」是,擁有精英專屬行政現狀的行政系統和可笑的主流媒體機構和管道試圖忽視、壓制和拒絕競爭和反對派的進出口,而不是英勇地參與,如果他們想像的話並擔心他們的網路智慧指揮和電腦和通訊的創造性控制能夠對野蠻和/或歷史和/或歇斯底里和/或腐敗和/或反常和顛覆性準秩序構成可行的生存威脅,而不是意識到它同樣非常適合並適合交付非常自然的非凡美食。

      然而,如今,那些舊式反應以及擬議的製裁和分類禁令的嘗試肯定會失敗,因為存在大量不受控制和無法控制的空間,這些空間不僅可供SMARTR 互聯網網絡服務立即提供,以立即提供此類未來的供應/來源。

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