Protest group says Google has fired more staff over sit-ins opposing work for Israel After firing 28 people for protesting its cloud deal with Israel by occupying its offices, Google reportedly spent the weekend letting go of more staff to bring the number of employees let go over the incident to an even 50. The latest count comes from No Tech for Apartheid (NTFA), a protest group organized to call attention …
Indeed. If you don't like your company's customers, then go elsewhere. That's about all you can realistically do if you have objections.
It is weird that they would call themselves "No Tech for Apartheid" since Israel isn't an apartheid state. Jews have a special relationship with Israel as a country, but my understanding is that there are many people working and living there that are not Jewish and have pretty much the same opportunities that the "natives" have.
Well I've been there several times and it definitely ain't an apartheid country! That idea was created by Soviet propagandists in the 1970's. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now.
And if they were committing 'genocide' how comes that most of the population are still alive? Genocide means killing an entire population, which definitely isn't the case here. If Israel had wanted to commit genocide they could have done it 6 months ago.
Anyway, this is a forum for discussing IT issues, not a propaganda platform
> "Genocide means killing an entire population"
No it doesn't. It has a precise definition in international law. By *your* definition, even the holocaust would not qualify as a genocide, since large numbers of Jews survived.
You may read the UN's legal analysis of why Israel's current actions meet the legal definition of genocide here:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/country-reports/ahrc5573-report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian
It's quite accessible and goes through each item in the legal definition carefully. Not that you'll care, since it's obvious you come with predetermined ideas and a strong pro-Israel bias.
> "it definitely ain't an apartheid country"
Again, apartheid has a legal definition. You may read a comprehensive legal analysis of why Israel is an apartheid state here:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
It would be wise to not comment about matters where you appear to lack the requisite understanding of what's happening on the ground, or the definitions of terms you throw around. Doubly-so, when you're trying to play the wise old owl.
Love how some people scream about having a voice, scream about everyone must be open minded and listen to them and yet when some of us say that we don't agree then we're instanlty shut down and told we're thinking and saying the wrong things.
I freely support your right to say whatever you like in public, this isn't a public space it's a private forum but all the same you can have your say. All I ask is that you extend the same courtesy to me and listen when i say that I think you're a brainwashed, woke SJW who needs to go do more reading than simply making a note of whatever TikTok influencer's name you picked this atrocious rubbish up from.
> "No Tech for Apartheid" since Israel isn't an apartheid state
When you come across what you think is an inconsistency, consider revisiting your premises and taking better informed alternate opinions. Is the opinion of Tamir Pardo, who headed the Mossad, Israel’s national intelligence agency, under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from 2011 to 2016 worth considering?
Full article in The Guardian: Israel imposing apartheid on Palestinians, says former Mossad chief.
A former head of the Mossad intelligence agency has said Israel is imposing a form of apartheid on the Palestinians, joining a growing number of prominent Israelis to compare the occupation of the West Bank to South Africa’s defunct system of racial oppression.But Tamir Pardo’s views will have added impact because of the high regard for Mossad in Israel and because they come at a time when far-right members of Israel’s government are moving to kill off any prospect of an independent Palestinian state.
Pardo told the Associated Press that Israel’s mechanisms for controlling the Palestinians, from restrictions on movement to placing them under military law while Jewish settlers in the occupied territories are governed by civilian courts, matched the old South Africa.
“There is an apartheid state here,” he said. “In a territory where two people are judged under two legal systems, that is an apartheid state.”
[...]
That is not the definition of apartheid.
Consider that the reason two people are judged differently is that one of those two people are terrorists or terrorist supporters.
Here in the U.S. we have two people judged under two legal systems.
Those on the left who protest, and riot, are judged sympathetically and leniently. Those on the right are punished severely. Politicians on the Left that are obviously corrupt, that have used their positions in government to enrich themselves are protected by the legal system. Those on the right, who attempt to do something about this rampant corruption are targeted by the legal system.
Is the U.S. an apartheid country?
This post has been deleted by its author
I lived and worked in Israel for 3 years, I worked with both Jews and Arabs on the same job, this is something you will never hear spoken about in the Mainstream Media.
Anyone that says that Israel is apartheid or similar has obviously never been or worked there.
Anyone supporting these Google employees is merely proving to the rest of us how utterly uneducated they are.
> "Anyone that says that Israel is apartheid or similar has obviously never been or worked there."
So you're saying that Tamir Pardo who headed the Mossad, from 2011 to 2016 has "obviously never been or worked there". Looks like there is a fault in your reasoning.
For a start, I would not start my own country in a place where people have had their own country for centuries. Especially if that means getting rid of them, one way or another. Especially through terrorism (irgun, stern, etc... blowing up hotels). And then calling others terrorists.
Some people have other ideas apparently. And some people even support these people who have other ideas.
Future generations of Israelis will have a hard time bearing that heritage.
The people of Judah were there millennia before. This IS their historic homeland.
Now the fact that in the intervening 2000 years they were scattered around the world and that most modern Jewish people have far more Eastern European DNA in them than Middle Eastern is another matter.
If true, they must have taken it from the Spanish Inquisition.
Thankfully, it's mostly not true. After the initial conquest, many Muslim caliphates were islands of tolerance. Because... "People of The Book". See, Islam is the third religion rooted in the Torah. Jesus is a prophet, the Tomb of John the Baptist receives 100s of Muslim every day.
- The Granada caliphate
- Omayyad Caliphate
- Emirate of Cordoba
- Abbasid caliphate (Harun al-Rashid)
During the Ottoman domination (eg. in the Balkans) conversion was mostly a way to climb up the social ladder or pay less taxes. Non-Muslims constituted the vast majority of the population of the empire. With zero drama, and freedom to worship. Churches were built by the Ottoman authorities themselves. Istanbul still has its Jewish Synagogue where you will hear "Ladino" (akin to Spanish).
So, bad luck. But yeah, I'm supposed to be the ignorant one with zero clue about the history of the region and who doesn't open history books. But what do I know!?
"For a start, I would not start my own country in a place where people have had their own country for centuries."
Such as who? I hope you're not referring to the State of Palestine.
Wasn't it the Ottomans who occupied that area for the largest % of the previous 2000 years? Not sure the Ottomans are 'European'. Also from what I remember of history the Ottomans were reasonably strong on keeping the various factions inline and supressing opposition and ensuring that everyone lived together in some sort of peace.
Ottomans are relative newcomers. Remember the fall of Byzantium is 1453.
Their domination on the Levant took another century - till the end of Suleiman the Magnificent reign (1566).
Before that that area was under the sway of the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt and even, briefly, the Seljuk sultans.
So, it's not exactly 2000 years. Less than a quarter of that.
1 - When I buy a place in a foreign country, that does not mean I can make it my own country.
2 - They "bought" the land nobody wanted to stay in because of things like the Deir Yassin massacre... how strange.
3 - Why refugees are not allowed to come and buy it back?
4 - Why are you automatically an Israeli citizen if you can prove some Jewish ancestry? Isn't that a willful replacement strategy?
Don't try to justify the land grab. It's impossible.
Here is a comprehensive legal analysis for why Israel meets the definition of an apartheid state:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
You obviously didn't speak too closely with your Palestinian co-workers, or you would have discovered many points of direct and indirect discrimination. Here is a brief list:
https://imeu.org/article/fact-sheet-palestinian-citizens-of-israel
I support the ones who quietly and peacefully voiced their concerns upward, without damaging anything or blocking paths, that ended up being terminated. I believe every employee should have the right to communicate internally the values they believe the company should hold without reprisal. We're all adults here, even shareholders. There's no reason we can't have that conversation.
To your anecdote, I knew a very lovely Israeli man in college who left and came to the US with his family due to growing problems with his wife (and by extension his children) having Palestinian heritage. This isn't the place for graphic depictions, but in short: one sanctioned police stop too far uprooted his family.
Israel isn't an apartheid state
Many have long said that Israel is an apartheid state:
• 2007: Occupied Gaza like apartheid South Africa, says UN report
• +972 magazine pages on apartheid +972 Magazine is an independent magazine run by a group of Palestinian and Israeli journalists.
• Jimmy Carter's book: Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid
• Jan 2021: A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid B’Tselem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
• Nov 2022: Understanding Apartheid Jewish Currents is an American progressive Jewish quarterly magazine and news site
• Wikipedia: Israel and apartheid
The media (journalists) are Israeli targets and used to push the Israeli message:
• RSF files complaint with ICC for war crimes against journalists in Palestine and Israel
• Israeli military accused of targeting journalists and their families in Gaza
• ‘Journalists see their role as helping to win’: how Israeli TV is covering Gaza war
• How Israeli journalists carry out PR for the army
• Journalism out, hasbara in: How Israeli TV news joined the Gaza war effort
Explainers: Parallel histories (resources for schools) Jewish currents
Please read the above references, you might learn something. You might not agree but please do not close your mind to other views.
I know that this will be downvoted by those who believe that Israel who can do no wrong. Yes: I am critical of the Israeli government, this is not antisemitism but will be portrayed as such.
I have great sympathies for those innocents who are caught between two terrorist organisations: Hamas and the Israeli government.
Sorry to have to say this, but as someone who lived under (and by virtue of skin colour benefitted from) Apartheid (i.e. the South African original edition) and recognises the signs and general behaviours of apartheid, Israel most definitely *is* enforcing a form of apartheid. If you treat one specific segment of society with harsh rules that only apply to them, that by definition is apartheid. This has been recognised and known for years, if not several decades.
That is however not to say that by describing Israel as an apartheid state you are anti-semitic, despite rumblings of some organisations trying to persuade people that that is so. Just like in the Apartheid years in South Africa, there are members of the class enforcing said flavour of apartheid who understand and see this as wrong and who are under a lot of pressure and are treated with disdain for their views. When you have Holocaust survivors and their relatives condemning what is happening in West Bank and especially in Gaza (even before 7 October, which was an absolute travesty), you should take note and consider whether you're still doing the right thing. It appears that the powers that be in the Knesset are ignoring that. And the West is just as complicit by not calling it out.
In my organisation yesterday I felt it was in particular poor taste for our Culture Team to be Slapping a Star of David so prominently on the ‘Celebrate Passover’ comms sent out.
Considering what Passover celebrates .. and the insensitivity of on Openly Jewish symbol like that whereas just leaving the feast table simple stock photo may have been a lot more appropriate - at this time.
The protestor quoted (Zelda) is perhaps what you'd expect. In their words "I'm a first-generation, non-binary Latinx software engineer. They/them."
I'm all for their right to protest. But unfortunately when you protest against major contracts for your employer you put them in a difficult position and make a nuisance of yourself. You literally put them in the position of asking if it's worth keeping you.
I see no issues providing civilian support, the military side is debatable, I guess it all boils down to whether these are 'professional protestors' that have a specific point, or if they are simply blindly anti-Israel, which is a bad look
" I guess it all boils down to whether these are 'professional protestors' that have a specific point, or if they are simply blindly anti-Israel"
The problem is that they are usually the same thing. Zelda with their list of things that they are is a classic member of the hyper-entitled NPC generation. The videos from the Columbia uni protests show this clearly. Its like the scene from Blazing Saddles!
Leader with a loud hailer: "Repeat after me"
Crowd: "Repeat after me"
I've Googled (lol) a few of her other comments and I'm starting to think it's justified. It wasn't just a protest at a specific thing. It seems she objects to even the government using the Google cloud for any purpose. She organized a "die in" protest that physically blocked employees entering the building and blocked passing traffic (until they had to be arrested carrying banners that are essentially anti-Israel, rather than simply "I object quietly and passively against this specific action". Broadly claimed that any use was bad and protested even Google's presence at a local and general tech conference. It's not quiiet and peaceful protest when you prevent your colleagues from going to work. You're making a nuisance to others
"Israel apartheid" and "liberate Palestine" banners are arguably drifting into bad territory.
"...while present, they weren't participating in the protest"
"One anonymous speaker, going by "Oreo," said that they, a Palestinian now-former Google employee with relatives in Gaza, only went into one of the protest sites to meet some of the participants of the sit-in. Afterward, Oreo claimed to have gone outside the building on public property to hold a sign in support of the protest."
I didn't participate in the murder, your honour; I just went round to his house to meet him, and happened to be holding the gun when it went off and shot him. Thirteen times.
Yeah you were a protester, no ifs or buts. And you got what was coming to you.
I don't particularly like my client. I don't agree with their political stance, and I don't get on with how they treat their employees as disposable.
But it's my choice to continue working for them. I could choose to leave; but given that I don't, and I continue to bill them every month, I would consider it pretty arrogant to continue to take their money while knifing them in the back. My leverage is to stop working for them if I feel strongly enough.
Exactly this. We all have choices, they may not be very nice ones but democracy offers them to us. We can protest, we can complain, we refuse to work for a companies we dislike.
Personally I swallow my conscience on most things when I go to work as I have bills to pay and a family to feed, people who love and trust me would prefer me to shut my mouth and bring home the green, so I do.
I think the sit-in protesters who protested on Google property did so because they wanted to both leave and bring the public's attention to Project Nimbus.
There is the wrong perception here that they are arrogant and entitled, due to commenters' lack of imagination that unhappy employees who want to leave anyway might purposely try to get themselves fired to make a statement.
But the other Googlers who merely associated with the sit-in protesters (their coworkers), likely didn't intend to get fired, or else they would have made it worth it by participating in the sit-in.
Project Nimbus is not new neither is the opposition
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/12/google-amazon-workers-condemn-project-nimbus-israeli-military-contract
"that they are arrogant and entitled"
There is no question that they are both and very much so. Busting in to a management office and scrawling on the whiteboard with a list of demands like a toddler having a temper tantrum is not a positive career move. I also have little doubt that the people fired would be quite happy doxxing those who disagree with them.
The ones who weren't directly involved in the sit-in protest are butthurt, because it looks like they were fired for their political views. I don't see any evidence of the sit-in protesters being genuinely shocked. They may play up Google's firing to bring attention to Google's hypocrisy, but it's bizarre that you think they were hoping to work at Google in the long term if they think it's unethical.
Being young, they might have been unaware of Israel-Palestine issues until recent events, and/or they became incensed by the genocide of Gazans, which started only recently.
" became incensed by the genocide of Gazans, which started only recently."
Depending who you ask it started sometime between 1948 and 1967. If you think this is something new that only started after the attacks on oct 7th you are not very well informed.
Maybe these people are just stupid. Google has been doing unethical things for a long time and it has not been kept secret. These people seem to have very selective ethics and activities like spying and censoring the extreme far right ultra-MAGAs is double plus good and supported by them. Project Nimbus has been going on for 3+ years, the difference is that now raging antisemitism is mainstream and good so they can amplify their virtue signalling. It is all performative.
What a dystopian world we're living in:
- Ethnic cleansing of non-white people that used to fly under the radar for decades now brings about protests by brainwashed non-racist students <blaming Internet, the "MSM", and the the "Left">,
- Whereas, instead, perfectly peaceful and legitimate protests by folks wearing bison-horned fur headdress that happened to take place inside the Capitol building are mistaken for coup attempts,
- MAGA enlighted free-speech loving citizens are being unethically "spied on" by the likes of Google,
- Perfectly honest businessmen have to stand trials for allegedly "paying hush money" <witch hunt>,
Thank God we can still let off steam anonymously in El Reg's comment sections. Although nobody seems to care.
lord:
I'm not American.
cow:
Where did i say you were american ? In my original post i never mentioned anything remotely like that.
Lord: And my schools, hospitals and emergency services are all paid for by taxes, meaning corporations did in fact largely pay for them.
cow: Me too. but unfortunately in my country (AU) I can see a stupid trend of companies copying corporate america.
The fucking stupid ceo worship culture is everywhere here now...
Really pisses me off seeing american corporate speak everywhere, company culture, ceo approval, the gig economy which ruins AU for everyone.
”Where did i say you were american ? In my original post i never mentioned anything remotely like that.“
You wrote this ”…and yet you think Oprah, Trump or Pilchai are your friend...have they invited you over for a birthday party ?“
Explain why you think I’d care two hoots about them if you didn’t think I was American. You know it, I know it and anybody else reading this knows it.
Oooooph. I read a bit deeper, it says something when the majority of protestors were wearing masks to avoid their employer IDing them. Some of the banners may have good intentions, but some of them accuse Google of genocide (it is never a good thing to accuse your employer of genocide while earning $100,000+ pa....).
https://nypost.com/2024/04/23/business/google-protest-group-says-over-50-staffers-were-fired-after-anti-israel-sit-ins/
Sample banners: "no more genocide for profit" "GOOGLERS AGAINST GENOCIDE"
"Some of the employees – many of whom covered their faces with masks while wearing traditional Arab headdress – brazenly barged into the offices of Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian in Sunnyvale and livestreamed the protest on Twitch. Others occupied the 10th floor of the company’s offices in Chelsea."
"Last month, a Google software engineer was fired after he was filmed publicly berating one of the company’s Israel-based executives during a tech conference in Manhattan."
Doesn't sound like they were quietly holding up signs in the car park does it? What kind of idiot livestreams themself barging into the CEOs office??!??!?
edit: AHAHAHA - Here is a video (ok it is FOX, but it's just video footage of the actual protest) https://youtu.be/_RpmqzqQGG0?si=PQvKjT2oNZqXlCbo
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