back to article Europe gives TikTok 24 hours to explain 'addictive and toxic' new app

The European Commission on Wednesday gave TikTok 24 hours to explain the risk assessment procedures it used before launching a version of the made-in-China app that rewards users for using it in certain ways. The app is called TikTok Lite and offers the chance to "to complete challenging tasks and earn great rewards!" Tasks …

  1. Oh Matron!

    Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

    Yep. Probably more so.

    I'm in Singapore right now, and had to walk through Shoppes (Yes, really) at Marina Bay Sands. As it was minutes after opening, all the purveyors of luxury tat had their employees stood like zombies staring into their iDevices. Literally, every single one. At least 30 of them.

    If it's already got those of voting age hooked, how damaging is it to those who can't make informed judgements?

    1. Tim 11

      Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

      This is all very true but I'm concerned by the fact that nowadays we seem to expect other people (even governments and large corporations) to take responsibility for our mental health.

      Looking after your own mental health is not only possible; it's primarily your own responsibility and it's probably your biggest responsibility.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

        Remember when cigarettes were advertised everywhere including TV, there were barely any health warnings, and you could smoke anywhere (public transport, offices included)? That's the stage we're at now with social media.

        I think everyone can agree that we're better off now for governments imposting tougher smoking restrictions than we were then.

        It's each individual person vs multinational corporations pushing their harmful products and it very often doesn't work out well for the little people. Shrugging and saying it's up to each individual's responsibility just lets corporations get away with it.

        In this case TikTok Lite sounds like a simpler reduced version of the TikTok app, but it's actually more addictive and more harmful. Certain design patterns and tracking should be ruled as harmful and backed up by legal penalties if they are used in apps.

        1. Vic Not 20

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          I think this is a very valid comparison and not one I have heard before (or perhaps was ready to listen to): I can really see the damage to my children's quality of life being caused by this addictive technology, and I think in a generation or 2's time almost everyone will look back with incredulity at how we as a society allowed a few tech unicorns to damage the mental health of almost the entire population.

          1. NoneSuch Silver badge
            FAIL

            Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

            Suppress dissidents - 10 points

            Suppress free speech - 10 points

            Suppress human rights - 10 points.

            Here's your Amazon gift card.

            1. Zolko Silver badge

              Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

              If that's all true, then why do western governments all converge to do all public actions – taxes, banking, social-security, doctor… – on the Internet ? My mum can't handle all the stuff she's supposed to do online, and there is nowhere to go personally. Heck, you need an online account to get a rendez-vous for a in-person meeting ! Blaming TikTok for what the government (also) does seems quite strange to me

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          Most actual smoking bans have been justified on the grounds of the harm done to non-smokers in the vicinity. The smokers themselves have just been targeted by warnings " this is stupid, but it's up to you". Until Sunak, of course.

          1. Terje

            Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

            That is because it's almost impossible to ban something that a large part of the population is addicted to or that is deeply socially integrated.

            Ask yourself if either alcohol or tobacco didn't exist in the world but the risks were known, and you were starting to market and sell it today, how long do you think it would take to be banned for health reasons, or you being straight up locked up for trying to sell people addictive poison.

            For a lot of social media today we can see there are harmful effects yet there have been virtually no regulation of them based on health.

            I don't think we are at the point were some more stringent regulations are impossible to impose yet, but in another decade it may well be.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          Indeed, these products are actively designed to be as addictive as possible. As an individual it's hard to avoid the pitfalls the combination of scientific research, psychology, algorithm design and corporate billions have carefully laid out to be as successful as possible at getting you addicted.

          Like with other highly addictive drugs, the best way to avoid addiction is to walk in as big a circle as possible around even trying it a single time.

        4. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Megaphone

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          it took centuries for science to recognize just how harmful tobacco use can become, along with the addictive nature of nicotine, and then for society and gummints to sufficiently regulate the use and sale of these products.

          Cigarettes, being the obvious example, are 'convenient' enough to invite excess use, and are often (as reported) made to be as addictive as possible BY DESIGN.

          I am disturbed by the obvious practices being done by Tik Tok, the specific GROOMING of younger minds, the PUSHING of specific agendas by "influencers", and the number of videos of people doing the stupidest of things, quite possibly because the camera is on. [I also hate tall-skinny "narrow mind" aspect ratios on videos, often posted on other forums like X, nearly all of which have TikTok watermarks]

          Is the CCP using Tik Tok like a BF Skinner inspired scheme to TRAIN us to [NOT?] think in a certain way, and GET ADDICTED to it?

          I do not trust the CCP at ALL, and in China their grubby fingers are in EVERY BUSINESS, both state-owned and private. I think the ABuse of "Tik Tok 'lite'" IS deliberate, and should be gotten to the bottom of ASAP.

          I skimmed through this article, seems relevant: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

        The wellbeing of people is a collective effort. Everyone has a part to play, including the individual affected.

        But also believing that all people are created equal does not equate to all people being created the same. We should all be equal in our rights but none of us are born with the same faculties or physical abilities.

        This new app isn't just a risk to young people as being addictive, but indicative of this new outlook where any scrap of meritocratic nature of our society is being eliminated, either for profit, or as a concerted effort to weaken culture.

        I would agree that we need to both be educating and encouraging everyone, including young people bolster their mental health. But how much defense does the individual have against concentrated efforts of well funded actors like Facebook (with it's manipulation of people with mental illness), Governments (seeking to weaken nations), and terrorists (Using data breaches to setup WhatsApp groups to send young children horrific imagery in an attempt to scar them)?

        It may suit one person's lifestyle (especially those who frequent this site) to be up on all the latest threats. But all of society can't work in IT. For it to function it needs all kinds of roles. And the lives those people live doesn't leave a lot of time for brushing up on the latest techniques in which people will try to feck with them.

        Just the other day there was an article saying the UK didn't even have a robust warplan if global war were to break out. And multiple papers have been written by people in defense about the country's lack of strategy when it comes to the new front of cultural cyber warfare.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          There's no such thing as a "robust warplan". See also: Warplan, enemy, effects of meeting.

      3. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

        Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

        Governments have to step in to prevent people who do harm themselves from harming others, because only they can do that, others cannot.

        People are rarely only harming themselves. They consume resources which could be used elsewhere and tax payers end up paying to mitigate the harm they have done to themselves and others. And there are plenty of more nuanced examples.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          It sounds a lot like the complaints people have about everything new.

          "Modern" art was degenerate, going to destroy youth and lead to total collapse of society into debauchery and madness

        2. Zolko Silver badge

          Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

          Governments have to step in to prevent people who do harm themselves from harming others

          like ... refusing an experimental vaccine against a harmless virus while said vaccine doesn't actually prevent contagion to others ? No thanks: my kids have TikTok and they have learned to live with it. I call it Darwinian selection: kids whose parents are too stupid to teach them to use stuff with caution will get lost. Tough but that's life, and no reason to – pretend to – protect me against myself. This is the typical case where the cure is worse that the decease.

          1. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

            Ah, antivaccer. Of course...

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

        Certainly it's a big responsibility, but your comment implies that governments shouldn't worry much about mental health effects. "Expect other people ... to take responsibility for our mental health", when, as you know, we live in this thing called "society" full of other people who make decisions without listening to the ones effected by it.

        Government decisions have huge impacts on mental health, regardless of who should be primarily responsible for it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is social media 'lite' as addictive and toxic as cigarettes 'light'?

      "If it's already got those of voting age hooked, how damaging is it to those who can't make informed judgements?"

      A big assumption there...

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Steve Wozniak quote

    As Steve Wozniak is quoted as having said:

    “When we started Apple, Steve Jobs and I talked about how we wanted to make blind people as equal and capable as sighted people, and you'd have to say we succeeded when you look at all the people walking down the sidewalk looking down at something in their hands and totally oblivious to everything around them!”

    1. Mishak Silver badge

      True, but...

      My blind friend says that doesn't tell the full story as they use other senses to make up for the lack of sight.

      1. Ordinary Donkey

        Re: True, but...

        My blind friend has just enough vision to see her smartphone 30cm in front of her which she uses to watch for obstacles further away using the camera.

        1. Casca Silver badge

          Re: True, but...

          That is one thing I hoped the Google Glass would help with.

          1. Ordinary Donkey

            Re: True, but...

            Envision are doing a better job at things like that because they're making it their central focus.

            1. Casca Silver badge

              Re: True, but...

              Thank you. Didnt know that existed.

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: True, but...

                A logical solution from the logical people

  3. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge

    So it's a lottery fueled/paid for by attention

    time is money, and we want it all

  4. EvaQ
    Holmes

    Finally Euorpe united

    including England, GB, UK, and Belarus .. one Europe

    At least that is what the title suggests "Europe gives TikTok 24 hours to explain"

    But seriously: how hard is it to write "EU gives TikTok 24 hours to explain"

    1. Shalghar Bronze badge

      Re: Finally Euorpe united

      Thats one issue that has been implemented by politicians. They wanted this confusion and they deliberately continue to merge and mingle the continent with the corrupt institution in almost every speech.

      1. EvaQ
        Stop

        Re: Finally Euorpe united

        So now writers comply with that and enforce the confusion?

        "EU" is even shorter than "Europe", so I don't get it. Is it ignorance or laziness or a joke ... ?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Finally Euorpe united

          Because when talking about global software companies it's simpler to just say "Europe" and ignore an unimportant little island off their coast.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Finally Euorpe united

            Possibly also part of the Americanization of El Reg, where "Europe" is some sort of country in it's own right.

            1. Zolko Silver badge

              Re: Finally Euorpe united

              Actually: it *IS* Amricanisation, as the USA calls itself "America" while America is in reality 2 continents (North and South) with ~20 countries. Yet, Brazilians and Canadians are not "Americans"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Finally Euorpe united

      There's this thing called Brexit, the UK, GB, England are no longer part of Europe. Hope this helps!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "X – as Twitter is now known – has around half a billion, according to Musk."

    More like half a billion bots

    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Trollface

      Yes, I was going to write take anything Musky says with a pinch of salt, well actually a mountain of salt would probably be more appropriate...

      *cough* Robotaxis*cough...

      1. DJO Silver badge

        There's not enough salt in all the oceans to put up against Musk's vacuous statements. But still the fanboys seem unable to see him for what he is.

      2. CountCadaver Silver badge

        *hacking cough* 2nd gen Tesla roadster

  6. Zibob Silver badge

    Withered on the Vine

    Things have changed now of course, but I cannot fathom whoever justified killing Vine.

    That has to go down as one of the web3 blunders to note. Literally sat back a watch tiktok eat their lunch and let them.

    More an obversation and point of humour, than anything else.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Withered on the Vine

      The internet is littered with the corpses of once-great social media companies but also with semi-decent ideas which were implemented badly and discarded by those same companies

  7. Shalghar Bronze badge

    So how exactly is this different from "reward apps" ?

    Theres an app that gives back rewards for doing as the app company wants.

    How exactly does this differ from appflame, mistplay,freemine (bitcoin mining scam app) or those location thieves, claiming you get paid for walking ?

    Addiction factor ? Most "reward apps" are specifically designed to get users hooked on with fast rewards in the first weeks, then demanding more and more for the next dopamine (and pixel purse) kick.

    A lot of them include pseudorewarding games or directly promote games, microtransaction games that are also designed to be addictive.

    Others like "testerheld" or opinion "rewarding" ponzi schemes just take all they want and design their reward rules so malevolently that you rarely see a reward paid out. Paid survey scam apps are pretty much the same, the "screening" questions take quite long and then instead of going to the promised survey/reward thers a simple "oh you dont belong to the target group, thx 4 your time and the scammed info.

    Dont only ask one culprit, ask them all. And if you really want to make the app experience better, prohibit ADnoyance clips longer than 10 seconds and force them to implement big "quit" buttons as well as prohibiting unwanted rerouting to any homepage or install app until actively, positively selected.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: So how exactly is this different from "reward apps" ?

      "Theres an app that gives back rewards for doing as the app company wants."

      Precisely what I cam here to say too! the listed "tasks" and "challenges" are all basically "do more of what the app is for". Where's the creativity like, say, find 10 websites on a specific topic or some sort of virtual treasure hunt, or find 10 science achievements of the last century. It's absolutely clear this is designed to get people using it more simply by paying them to use it more. Growth not by being good, unique, better etc, but by bribing users.

  8. 43300 Silver badge

    "The app is called TikTok Lite and offers the chance to "to complete challenging tasks and earn great rewards!"

    Tasks include watching vids, liking content, or following other users."

    Sounds really 'challenging'...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Should certainly put the click farms out of business

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Joke

      "Sounds really 'challenging'..."

      Ok then. Let's see how much YOU can earn by sitting there all day constantly watching 10 second video clips, find new people to follow and "smashing that like button", hour after hour, for $2 in Amazon gift vouchers! Go on, prove how easy it is! How long can you YOU stay sane? :-)

      Note the icon for those who might think I'm being serious. You know who you are ;-)

      1. 43300 Silver badge

        OK, you have a point :)

      2. Shalghar Bronze badge

        "Let's see how much YOU can earn "

        Already tried to show my son that the ADnoyance for the scam apps are a bit exxagerating when it comes to the rewards.

        I tried "mistplay" just because i believe the name is multilingually funny, as the scheme is rather foggy and "mist" is the german peasant word for manure.

        Instead of the promised "get paid for playing your (!) games", theres a list of games you must install through that mistplay app, which redirects to playstore for installation. Games you had installed and are now re installing via mistplay only count for playtime rewards, not for installation.

        If you want to earn the reward points, you must start the games via the mistplay app and must allow mistplay to display over other apps to track the time and game progress.

        Of course you can get points faster when playing microtransaction games and "spending in loyalty apps" but i chose three "idle" games (basically inflated screensavers with the occasional clicking/tapping).

        Then theres "events" much like the "tasks" mentioned in the article. Basically things like "play game X for XX minutes or "play any two games for xx minutes" or the aforementioned "spend any amount in loyalty games" which of course gives the most points.

        If you dont spend but let the smartphone play the "idle games" while charging, it takes around half a year to accumulate enough points for a 5 euro voucher. (Currently priced at 1800 "units"). Of course the addiction mechanics are there, meaningless player points to let you "augment" your profile/avatar, meaningless "honorary titles" that activate for each game when playing a certain amount of time or one hour after 22:00 or similar "achievements". Theres also a "x day streak", just a number of consecutive logins. As every "streak" gives 2 "units" and this amount does not increase at all, i believe they missed an addiction factor since it makes no difference if you are a true believer or take a week off.

        So how did it pay out ? First you must register via camera "to prove that you are a human". As that somewhat triggers my paranoia, i decided to show the plastic head that my wife is using for manufacturing renaissance and klingon mask/wig combinations. According to that software, it is now a human. Then you can select vouchers. Google play, amazon, the like. After around 2 workdays you get an email with a link to the voucher code.

        With every payout, the reward for "simply playing" is reduced as the "game checkpoints" are harder and harder to reach, theres no more rewards after checkpoint 20 and the "checkpoint" rewards decrease the higher you get.

        The tasks/"events" pay as much as 15 "units" as a maximum ( minimum is 5 "units" and thats the majority of tasks/"events") while the "spending in loyalty apps" is announced at 50 "units".

        The old phone that was abused for this scam test is still lying around and every once in a while, i take a look at "mistplay" just to check if they implement one of the other usual scams - automatically reducing your account or deactivating it due to inactivity, effectively stealing "your" "units".

        TL:DR as many would have assumed, the "rewards" are somewhat unrewarding for all the hassle one has to go through and all the time and energy spent.

        1. 43300 Silver badge

          And there are people out there who are so bored that they are prepared to go through all this shit?

      3. Not Yb Bronze badge

        I had a coworker who took advantage of one of the rewards apps by turning the phone on very low volume and putting it on an out of the way desk until the long-form adverts finished playing... Made enough for lunch once a week or so. Silly, not that lucrative, but at least one app wasn't getting what it thought it was. There are "phone rockers" available to simulate walking for those apps that require that, too.

  9. Grogan Silver badge

    Well, YES, that's exploitation of the dopamine reward circuit in the brain. It will hook young and old (who are inclined that way... you couldn't pay me to be on tiktok or anything like it) with the promise of rewards for perseverance. Also, today it's videos and liking content etc. but what is it going to get them to do once the algorithms identify someone it has in its clutches?

    I've got games that do that to me though, but with their looting and leveling metrics. I'd say that's in a good way, because it keeps the games replayable throughout a few "new game+" type playthroughs. However it's important to understand what these things are doing to you and why it works.

  10. Snowy Silver badge
    Holmes

    Surprised

    That they gave Amazon credit rather than Temu credit given how hard Temu is advertised.

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Surprised

      "Tiktok shop" is showing up more and more in my views (yes, I scroll through there) and I've started encountering people in other social trying to sign me up using the usual MLM sales tactics (pretending to be a friend, social/emotional engineering, etc)

      It's temu/wish grade nasty tat, of course

  11. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Moral panic

    This is starting to remind me of the fuss made about coffee shops in Britain back in the 17th-18th century - and for much the same reasons (Coffee shops were suspected of being places where dissidents and plotters collaborated)

    1. Not Yb Bronze badge

      Re: Moral panic

      Back then, that was true. Well, at least in one coffee shop, somewhere in America.

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