Future Roku TVs may inject tailored ads into anything and everything when you pause Will Roku TVs of the future throw up targeted ads on the screen whenever you pause a video? We hope not but... A Roku-assigned patent application, filed in the US as 20230388589A1 and titled "HDMI customized ad insertion," outlines a fairly convoluted system that ultimately shows adverts on your telly or some other display …
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Found it! Thanks for the treasure-hunt!
Do i get a prize?
Had a massive data breach recently and tried to hide it?
Tried to force users into a 'forced arbitration' agreement by disabling the functionality of it's products until you agreed, with no way to opt out unless you reset your system to factory specs and never ever connected it to the internet again.... rendering a smart system a dumb one without access to any of the streaming services you actually purchased the product for.... and they did this completely coincidently right before they had to announce the data breach.
The same company that has now filed this patent to inject ads into pauses of content you have paid for to have an ad free experience.
Fuck roku.... no... fuck the entire ad industry. You are now morally and ethically justified in going to any extremes to block and thwart any and all ads and data harvesting. I just want this entire toxic industry to wither and die. I'd be willing to pay a little extra for content... But I'm not willing to pay for content that promises an ad free experience only to bait and switch you into being forced to watch them or conned into paying extra to remove them again... Fuck roku, fuck amazon... fuck them all.
>> I'd be willing to pay a little extra for content
I was willing to pay, but that was not enough for Netflix with their heel turn on account sharing, nor to Amazon with their ads on Prime, nor to Youtube with their everything really...
So far Spotify is the only one behaving decently enough[1] for me to keep a subscription.
[1] From the point of view of an user. Their interaction with artists is a whole different can of worms
I don't know. Spotify still keep trying to flog me the family plan, despite my family no living in the same house hold.
And the new fucking update is pissing me off. "Resuming play of....." which half the time screws up the interface if you don't have a decent signal and fucks up the audio of the current playing track.
Luckily you can pick up 2nd hand Cds, dvds and Blu-ray's for next to nothing.
Luckily Spotify has not done any of that to me... yet. But the moment they start annoying me, out of the window they will go.
Yup, I am also rebuilding my collection of physical (and backed-up) music to prepare for the moment when the inevitable happens. It is a streaming service, after all: It seems that enshitification is hardcoded into all of them.
As regards to Youtube, I have been giving them however many pieces of silver a month it is they want for premium for quite a few years now, and As far as I can remember have not seen any ads in my watching. So for that single thing I have to give them credit.
I've never seen a single ad on Youtube, ever. I don't pay them a penny. I use Vivaldi with default ad-blocking settings.
I guess that my content choices (historical and technological documentaries mostly) represent an edge case that they haven't yet fully monetised.
-A.
This is why I tend to pay more for premium products like the Shield. The hardware Roku sells is a loss leader and they make up the difference selling data about the habits of people using their stuff. The SoCs alone probably cost more than what they sell some of those low end devices for.
Couldn't agree with this more... I have 2 nVidia Shield TV devices, a 2017 and 2019 pro models. One I use in my bedroom connected to a 50" samsung 4K tv... that isn't connected to the internet in anyway.
I have a burner google account I use for the shield... a vpn installed and only a few apps as well as a 3rd part app store. It's used for netflix, kodi and emby... and that's it. I got rid of prime in Jan.
The 2nd shield device, is kept for when I go away, I take it with me... either to watch netflix where I'm staying, or with kodi and a 1tb ssd connected that I fill with movies/tv shows to consume if needed.
At home, I also have a freesat box after getting rid of sky about 7-8yrs ago... Last weekend, I had to replace the 500GB HDD in it, with a 1TB SSD after it failed.
Me too. My premium product of choice is an Apple TV 4K but same idea.
Note that the patent mentions detecting when the pause button is pressed. If you are using Roku's remote as you would to control apps running on the TV, it will know when you have hit the pause button. They don't have a good way of implementing this if you are using a separate device to run the apps - if they tried to run ads when the screen is static they would inevitably start running ads when you aren't "paused" but just at a section of a movie where it freeze frames (or maybe your internet hiccups) or you're in one of the app menus reading a movie synopsis trying to decide whether you want to watch it.
The other problem with running ads when someone pauses is often people will pause because they need to quiet the TV. You got a phone call, your wife/kid is asking you something, you're surfing social media while watching TV and want to watch a video with sound, etc. If you TV starts making noise you are going to be PISSED because suddenly something that has always worked to "mute" your TV no longer does, and now you need to pause AND mute (assuming "mute" even works for these ads!)
I hope Roku does this, and others do too. Because if it became widespread enough someone would start selling TV sized "monitors". In the US at least you can't sell something as a "TV" if it doesn't have an ATSC tuner, but fewer and fewer people use that so someone needs to start selling 75" monitors!
People are always suggesting Apple is about to go big into ads and it keeps not happening. They do ads in the app store and the news app, that's about it. They aren't going to be shoving ads in people faces when they pause, because Apple cares about user experience and wants repeat customers.
Since Apple carries some live events like sports (MLB, MLS, and they're working on more) they need to have ads to fill all the breaks in the action. So hiring ad execs with experience in exactly that makes sense.
Whether Roku implements this on their TVs or not, if the patent is granted - which if its been filed in the US patent office it probably will be considering previous patents they have allowed. Then some company is bound to consider licensing it from Roku to implement in their own TVs so either way Roku will be making money from it.
Yet another reason to leave your smart TV's unconnected from the network. As if i am watching some 'adult' content from a device hooked up via HDMI, i don't want my TV analyzing what im watching and sending it off to their ad servers to show me targeted ads based on what im watching in private.
The only time I ever have something I am watching on pause is when I am away from my TV, no longer watching it, am taking a piss or shit, making a cup of tea, or stirring a pan on the stove. For me it will be as pointless and as ineffective as all the other ads I never get to see.
I still hate the idea though. We will have to hope they thought this was a good idea for a patent, not a good idea to implement.
And I say that as someone who is quite proud of having developed 'video present' detection for a video auto-selector which switched to usually off equipment when powered on, and back when switched off again.
That was intended to be a convenience for the user. And, importantly, the user could disable that functionality.
The only time I ever have something I am watching on pause is when I am away from my TV, no longer watching it, am taking a piss or shit, making a cup of tea, or stirring a pan on the stove. For me it will be as pointless and as ineffective as all the other ads I never get to see.
I can see problematic use cases. First what if the connected device is a PC or info display where the screen is naturally static for a period?
The other is with actual media playback. I'm thinking of Mr Skin style uses of the pause button whenever an actress's naughty bits appear on screen.
I pitched my Roku years go when I realized how chatty it was with the mothership. 24x7 outbound traffic. Although I am guessing this patent applies to 'Smart' TV's with built-in Roku players, as this is the only way they can sense a paused video from a different HDMI source.
I would suggest simply not connecting such a device to the Internet, but I'll bet it will either have built-in permanent ads or will require network access before working (sort of like how HP printers won't turn on their USB port until they are WiFi connected).
A comment I saw earlier, originally intended as a response to Microsoft's suggestion of putting ads on the Windows 11 start menu. Seems somehow appropriate here as well:
Dear ad-slingers.
Fuck off.
Keep fucking off until you come to a gate bearing a sign, 'You Cannot Fuck Off Past This Point'.
Ignore the sign, open the gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.
Yours with the most extreme prejudice imaginable, and then some.
That might have been me... as I've used very similar responses in the past. It stems from my days of doing stand up... when I'd get a heckler.. not a silly one that you can back and forth a little with for some giggles... but the drunk/obnoxious ones that the whole audience wishes would just shut the fuck up and go home... and I'd go through the whole... how about you fuck off routine. But would finish with 'keep fucking off until you circumnavigate the globe and arrive back here... so you can FUCK OFF again.
I love that bit... posted below in full
By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing…kill yourself. It’s just a little thought; I’m just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they’ll take root – I don’t know. You try, you do what you can.
(Kill yourself.)
Seriously though, if you are, do.
Aaah, no really. There’s no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan’s little helpers. Okay – kill yourself.
Seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good.
Seriously.
No this is not a joke. You’re [going], “There’s going to be a joke coming.” There’s no fucking joke coming. You are Satan’s spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It’s the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself
Planting seeds.
I know all the marketing people are going, “He’s doing a joke…” There’s no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend – I don’t care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations. (Machi…) Whatever, you know what I mean.
I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too: “Oh, you know what Bill’s doing? He’s going for that anti-marketing dollar. That’s a good market. He’s very smart.”
Oh man, I am not doing that, you fucking, evil scumbags!
“Ooh, you know what Bill’s doing now? He’s going for the righteous indignation dollar. That’s a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We’ve done research – huge market. He’s doing a good thing.”
Godammit, I’m not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a goddamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet.
“Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market. Bill’s very bright to do that.”
God, I’m just caught in a fucking web.
“Ooh, the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market – look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar…”
How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like fucking babies at night, don’t you?
“What didya do today, honey?”
“Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight.” [snores] “Yeah we just said, you know, is your baby really too loud? You know?” [snores] “Yeah, you know the mums will love it.” [snores]
Sleep like fucking children, don’t ya. This is your world, isn’t it?
My Roku stick already does that; you hit pause on any one of the apps being serviced by Roku, and a silent, still ad (or promo) pops up on the screen. Now, it is not clear whether that is coming from Roku or from the actual streaming app I'm running via the stick, although since the format of these ads is different (full screen, half screen, half screen with alpha channel gradient to allow you to see the actual paused source underneath) would lend one to believe that the app itself is foisting the ad upon us wearied viewers.
Now if this is indeed the case, and Roku starts overwriting the app's ads with its own, I'm not real sure that the app folks are going to take too kindly to Roku usurping their ha'pennies in revenue.
This could get interesting. Do I smell popcorn?
It seems like Roku misses the fact that not only is there competition that does not do this, but there are also plenty of hacks for these sticks. People do not like this shit. The ones that will tolerate it will become members of a dwindling customer base.
If there was justice in the world, shit like this would bankrupt a company. But far too many people are willing to trade minor conveniences for being abused.
It amazes me that people think they are in the majority. News Flash, you are not!
Most people are lemmings, they really don't care, they certainly don't care about ads when they pause a show. Why are you pausing, because you are going to get up and walk away from the TV. They are not even looking ar the ads.
I use several streaming services that show ads. They are far less intrusive than broadcast TV which can shoe 20 ads in an ad break. The streaming services maybe 3 at most and there are far less ad breaks.
Per the terms of the new Roku terms, I submitted a written opt-out notice for the new forced arbitration terms. My Roku TV is still unusable, stuck at the "accept" pop-up. Support chat told me that I can factory reset my TV, then be limited to HDMI and live TV. Not what I was expecting from my opt-out. I now have a "smart" TV, for which I paid $149, which has been lobotomized by Roku.
Now, take a second to think about this HDMI advert patent. Roku has no plans right now, but what about the future? The pause detection works by comparing frames of the stream. If they are the same, it assumes you have paused the video. What about static Desktops? If I do not use my third monitor for a period of time, showing the same Desktop image, will I suddenly get adverts? If I am using the Roku to display for an event, will it suddenly start playing an advert to the attendees?
How long will it take for the TV to start sampling the HDMI stream and uploading those snapshots to Roku, for more targeted advertising? How will that data be handled or retained? Who will have access to that data? Selected third-party partners?
No. This will not do at all.
Fair. A lot of people do not see this point. Simply put, I agreed to certain terms when I started using my $149 device. Primarily so I can watch media from my Plex servers, but then it really does not do that well, either. Why should I have to piss away the $149 because Roku wants me to conform to new terms? Will Roku compensate me for a value commensurate to the lost functionality? Is this warrantability issue, in that Roku sold me a device which, in exchange for my money, came with implicit guarantees?
I can understand, "Hey, we're dropping support for certain devices because we can't update the firmware of those devices to meet certain requirements." I cannot, however, grok, "Hey, agree to these new arbitration terms or get bent." Sure, we all agreed to that when we bought the devices, but at the same time we can revoke our consent to be abused by these companies and stop buying their shit.
This is the only "smart" device I have in my home, because of exactly this kind of shenanigans. I only have it as it came with my office to home office. Is it still usable as a TV and HDMI display? Yes. Is that what I bought? Thanks to Roku's capriciousness, no, it is not.
So you pause the movie, with nicely mastered sound so the sound effects can really hit hard, to answer the door, and then a f*cking ad starts playing with the volume cranked to max?
The enshittification continues. Just so some sales type can try to hit their bonuses.
You can't watch the end of an episode of a series without having all of 3 seconds to stop the next episode from starting.
You watch a movie, and want to contemplate and listen to the music while idly watching the credits roll by. NO you have 10 seconds before a preview of some unrelated sh*t is shown!
You have to be an effing expert on the GUI to be able to see some credits at the end, and find the remote, and hit the correct buttons in the correct sequence.
What are the odds I want to watch another effing 2 hour+ movie right after I watched one? (Far too long, as usual.)
They are killing their businesses with this enshittification.
As others have said, any company that wants to do something like this can take a running jump.
However, I'm surprised at the number of comments saying they never connect their streaming devices to the internet. Huh? I mean, sure I have some local content on my NAS too, but what are people watching, or is that a personal question?
If Roku actually get this shit patented (quite possible because the US Patent Office is (under-)manned by folks who really can't be arsed to do their jobs properly), then only Roku will be able to do this; everyone else (and there are others, at least currently) won't, and those of us who are not pleased by this can amble off and find another service. This may well be corporate Darwinism at its absolute best.
...from my keyboard to Ghod's ears...
So now not only does YouTube expect me to pay for an "ad free experience", but now almost every channel requires a Patreon account to not get a sometimes very long "sponsor" ad in the middle of the video.
I think the pendulum is swinging back to buying physical media. As was the name of a now defunct band, I'm Sick of it All.
When a dishonest company like Roku has "no plans right now" to implement something as bad as this, they're reminding me of the Berlin Wall and Walter Ulbricht's famous "Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten!".
That's what happens when you destroy your brand by f%$§ing over your users repeatedly and being dishonest.
[Not sure why El Reg decided to wait so long before this story appeared in my 'feed' but, for the record...]
Well done Roku for imagining that the only possible reason for pausing the TV is that you want to watch an advert. <facepalm> What about the crime prevention shows where you might want to get a better look at the perp's image, or the description of stolen goods?
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