Fujitsu set to be preferred bidder in UK digital ID scheme

A UK government-endorsed ID card scheme is set to appoint Fujitsu as a business outsourcing supplier despite the Japanese company's earlier promise to refrain from participating in UK public procurement. Fujitsu is understood to be the preferred bidder for the Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS) run by a non-profit company …

[elsergiovolador]

Confusion

police> Show your digital ID!

joe> There it is.

police> That's not you!

joe> Well, it is me.

police> In that case you are under arrest for identity theft!

joe> Wait, what?

police> You go with us.

*10 days later*

fushitesu> Our system works as expected, there are no errors and employees cannot modify the digital ID records when they are bored to their... oh sorry your honour... bored.

police> Yes, that person stole Joe's identify, we don't know who he is.

judge> Ok. based on the given evidence I deem that you are going to be sent to Rwanda tomorrow as we don't believe you are a British citizen. Computer clearly says you are not.

joe> Bollocks!

judge> Nice try mate, but in Fushitesu we trust.

[Dr Who]

Re: Confusion

Nice. For the analogy to be complete though - Joe would find himself staring in the mirror doubting whether what he could see there was really himself. Mind bending stuff.

Fujitsu - purveyors of the finest gaslights.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

kafkaesque

kafkaesqueFujutsuesque

Fujitsu, the new Kafka

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Confusion

Confusion?

Confusion you say?

No, there is absolutely no confusion here guv.

None whatsoever.

It is nothing but more of the well known Tory government fare.

So, nothing to see here.

Come on, on you way ...

.

[MJI]

More control freak bollocks

Well it is, isn't it?

All that money to do something we do not need.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: More control freak bollocks

"All that money to do something we do not need already have."

We already have a system for issuing passports. Put some money into issuing a passport to all 16-year olds who don't already have them. (You could organise it through the schools so that persistent truants don't get one.)

Then issue a credit-card sized summary of the passport's photo page and use that as your proof of age.

Since the hard part of verifying the identity of the applicant has (presumably) already been solved by the passport office, I bet that would be cheaper than this proposal, quicker to roll out, and have fewer failures. As an added bonus, the extra resources to the passport office would help the rest of us.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: More control freak bollocks

I think you might be on to something here.

The major failing when issuing passports is they actually have no idea if the photo is you. If you have previous photo ID from when you were younger then that's more validation and to game the system would require years of planning. This is going back some years but when I got my first passport I had to get the back signed by some upstanding member of the community (Police office, teacher, politician (don't laugh) etc...) or even someone with a degree would be fine. Not sure what the criteria is now for brand new passports for people that have never had a photo ID. This almost resolves that problem.

Another side of this is the push for an ID card system that never really went away. They just got crafty in how they would implement it through the back door.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: More control freak bollocks

>Not sure what the criteria is now for brand new passports for people that have never had a photo ID. This almost resolves that problem.

When I replaced my passport, I got the HR person at work to confirm my identity. There was no other options, but at least I knew her...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: More control freak bollocks

No idea who mine are. never met them or seen them. (worked for a small company, take over 3 times now)

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: More control freak bollocks

Not sure what the criteria is now for brand new passports for people that have never had a photo ID

Dunno about passports but when we applied for new driving licences recently (finally decided to get the new-fangled picture card licences, complicated by the fact that our passports expired years ago!) the picture had to be signed on the back by someone who knew us and could attest that it was us..

Obviously, could be easily open to abuse but (from memory) the penalty for falsely attesting is somewhat equivalent to purgery.

[CountCadaver]

Re: More control freak bollocks

Do you mean "perjury" perchance?

[LessWileyCoyote]

Re: More control freak bollocks

There could be a much simpler way of creating an ID card. If someone hasn't passed a driving test and isn't seeking a provisional licence, allow them to apply for a driver's licence with zero classes of vehicle on it, i.e. it doesn’t permit you to drive anything but does act as evidence of ID. Could use the existing system throughout at minimal cost (adding one extra option to the system). A logical nonsense, but one that's cheap and functional.

[James Anderson]

Re: More control freak bollocks

A bigger problem is the stupid things are so bloody flimsy and hard to replace.

I worked in Asia for several years where officials just love putting stamps in your passport. Usually requiring a replacement every five years or so, but, a couple of times hard use and insect repellent made the document unusable after 3 years.

That does not sound so bad except the to get a replacement you hand the old one over to DHL who send it to Hong Kong where a replacement is issued and DHLed back to you at least three weeks later. This leaves you effectively stateless unable to travel or even book into a hotel for that period.

My USian colleges could just roll up to the American embassy and pick up their new passport next day,

[johnfbw]

Re: More control freak bollocks

You weren't 'stateless' you were passport-less. One is a lack of citizenship, one is piece of paper.

Also if you working in Asia and needed to visit other countries for business you can apply for a second British passport.

Current turnaround time for new UK passports sent to Germany is 10 calendar days (3 weeks ago got first child passport and a first adult passport - my renewal was done in the passport office a few months earlier with a weeks notice)

[Suburban Inmate]

Re: More control freak bollocks

I think what many of the replies here have overlooked is the massive potential to mind-bogglingly overcharge us the taxpayers for a new system, and then the accompanying mind-boggling overcharging for training, maintenance, and the remedial overhauls every now and then when word gets around that it's a broken sack of buggy bollocks.

[rafikiphoto]

Re: More control freak bollocks

"Then issue a credit-card sized summary of the passport's photo page and use that as your proof of age."

Where I live that's called an ID card but the Tories went down that route before, many years ago, Cameron then chickened out even after first adopters like me had paid £30 to have one! Here in Spain it's mandatory for citizens to carry ID. As a third country citizen (UK) I must carry my T.I.E. "aliens" ID or passport.

[mark l 2]

Of course it will start with digital ID for buying alcohol to protect underage kids, and end up with it being required for doing everything from claiming benefits, open bank accounts or sign up for a social media account before a decade is over once the mission creep kicks in.

[Captain Hogwash]

Indeed. How long before "A UK government-endorsed ID card scheme" becomes "A UK government-mandated ID card scheme"?

[m4r35n357]

As a non-smartphone user, can I just point out that you all gave in to this years ago. Your phone IS your ID!

[Captain Hogwash]

Making some assumptions there buddy

[m4r35n357]

I am pointing out how difficult it is to do many things without one, and how much personal information is contained on it and in the "services" accessed using it.

Hardly assumptions.

Who knows, we might just end up with a "government mandated smartphone" instead - same deal.

[xyz]

Yeah but it would cost 5k a pop and wouldn't work.

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

And the left-wing parties and their more idiotic followers would bleat on endlessly about how it's better than having something made in the private sector because heaven forbid somebody make make a profit.

[Ken Hagan]

I think you are assuming I have exactly one phone.

[LybsterRoy]

Thems would be the rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Under a Labour Government 100% it will.

They like to keep an eye on it's comrades as Tony Blair wanted this but bottled it.

[Jason Bloomberg]

Re: Under a Labour Government 100% it will.

Labour's mistake was they expected people to pay for ID, something like £85 each I recall.

Had they paid people to have one, the greedy and gullible fools would have taken them up on the offer, and they could quite easily have made life very difficult for those who didn't.

Luckily there was third party candidate at the next general election though that didn't work out so well in the long term.

[Lee D]

Judging by the last trial that was abandoned at significant cost after a large-scale trial layout with no real "faults" found with the system?

Quite a long time.

[Dan 55]

Well all the work's been done already with the EU settled status app, all that has to be done now is getting the local population to use a variant. Probably starting with those people without passports (you can pay £££ to get a passport and prove your ID for x, y, and z or just use this app).

[Anonymous Coward]

It's already started. When you renew your driving licence, DVLA's web site demands your NI number AND your passport details. These are of course critical to deciding if someone can drive. The only alternative is paying even more money and getting photographed at selected post offices.

[Lee D]

That's called identity verification - asking for one government-issued document to verify your eligibility to renew another government-issued document is pretty standard and in fact necessary.

Also... you can not have a passport. My brother's literally never had one.

It's when you start joining them for non-goverment-issued tasks that it becomes a problem, and that's basically what killed the Manchester etc. trials - both legislatively and with the people.

[Anonymous Coward]

not just that but the paper form has long had a space to enter your passport number and use that for verification. The online system refused to work when I needed to renew, so I used the D1 form and entered my passport number instead of having to send a birth cert or whatever.

[Dan 55]

It's when you start joining them for non-goverment-issued tasks that it becomes a problem

Well you need ID or the settled status app to open a bank account, rent a place, start a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you don't. It's not defined how banks, employers, etc are expected to identify their customers or employees - just that they do this. They're welcome to check identities whatever way they choose. Most take the easy way out by copying Big Brother: "papers citizen!". As if driving licences and passports are never forged. Not that a bank (say) would be able to verify an ID token is genuine.

All this Know Your Customer stuff is arse-covering bollocks. Security theatre at its worst.

[Richard 12]

As a landlord - no, it's true.

The law requires the landlord to demand the tenant provide proof of the "right to rent" - effectively that they're a British or Irish citizen, or have leave to remain.

The grace period has expired, so it even applies to existing tenants.

In practice, that means a passport - even a photocard driving licence isn't enough on its own.

https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-rent

[Lee D]

Nope.

My brother literally had no photographic ID of any kind and he's 50.

No driving licence, no passport.

He has a bank account, a mortgage, a job with CRB checks required, etc. etc. He opened the bank account with a birth certificate and some utility bills.

In the UK you still do not NEED ID of any kind whatsoever.

And given that that's possible, even if he had those, all he needs to do when opening an account, renting, starting a job, etc. is to say that he doesn't.

[Just Enough]

That's a very generous definition of NEED. Sure you don't, if you want to have no right to travel abroad, or drive, or prove your identity in dozens of situations.

You can also live in a cave and you'll never NEED a bank account, a mortgage, or a job.

[Barrie Shepherd]

Until they mandate that you MUST have Digital Photo ID to open bank accounts, sign up for mobile phones, etc.

[Richard 12]

He would find it extremely difficult to rent anywhere.

The law has changed.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Also... you can not have a passport. My brother's literally never had one.

We both had one (hard to fly without one!) but when I stopped needing to fly for my job I let it lapse (and my wifes' had lapsed years before). Which *slightly* complicated getting a new picture card license..

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say highly unlikely, considering I remember something similar (but without the app) offered to me at school when I was 15-16, this was around 2000.

They're just ways for kids to prove their age without carrying around their passport.

[John Smith 19]

"Of course it will start with digital ID for buying alcohol to protect underage kids"

Indeed.

Because those kids will grow up and what happens to their data then?

Data fetishists always got to fetishise.

[James Anderson]

Well in Europe everybody has a government issued ID card. It’s useful and we don’t suffer a plague of identity theft,

[Blogitus Maximus]

Would you feel the same way if demonstrably bad companies are given admin access to your data?

Spawn of Satan, because it'll be a cold day in hell before I'd hand over my data to Fujitsu.

[James Anderson]

Given how much government business they inherited through ICL Fujitsu have probably lost and misfiled more data on you than you ever thought possible.

But yes while ID cards are not a bad idea, private for profit companies running government business is NEVER a good idea.

[BitGin]

Everybody in Europe lived under fascism so they're used to crap like that. Quite a lot of the even like it.

[ArrZarr]

Missing a few asterisks there

Everybody in Europe[1][2]

[1] Who is older than 78 years, 10 months[3]

[2] Except the Swiss

[3] Well, okay. There is Spain where you'd only have to be 49 years old to have lived under fascism.

[LybsterRoy]

How would you know?

[rcw88]

Depends on your definition of identity- some bloke on instagram has had his account cloned numerous times - using his own photo and his name. I know an instagram account isn’t your identity but identity theft happens. There was a very interesting TV documentary about this bloke - his ID was being used to commit fraud on an industrial scale in the far east by scammers cold calling victims all over the world.

[MrTuK]

Well the Third Reich got you guys acclimatized to have ID cards !

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

You can't have a social credit score if you can't identify each individual

[Doctor Syntax]

Really??!!!

[Nematode]

There is no such thing as government any more, just big biz shills. Thank God I'm of an age where before too long none of this cr@p will affect me, unless of course Fujitsu get their hands on AI control of crematoria. I pity my kids and wish we'd never had them, and their kids.

[Mike007]

"You can apply for a provisional driving license when you're 15 years and 9 months old." - gov.uk

What is the purpose of such a card for someone over 16? I always considered a driving license to be the defacto ID card in the UK...

I was under the impression these ID cards were for the unlikely event that a bus driver refused to allow someone who looks 20 to buy a child ticket. (Yeah right, the other day someone who was definitely over 18 and wearing an ASDA uniform bought a child ticket to the bus stop outside ASDA during the school day with no questions from the driver...)

[Daniel Snowden]

What if you can't hold a driving license, e.g. for medical reasons?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try holding a driving licence instead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Might be actually useful

Fujitsu issues aside, a digital version of the PASS card might actually be an upgrade to the existing cards. Having bought one years ago I tried to go on nights out, only to find that bigger places wouldn't accept them as proof-of-age at all because you could go round the corner and buy them for a few quid that would look just as valid.

On top of that, I've worked in supermarkets on the tills. Not once has anyone ever tried to give me one of these cards, but quite a few have tried showing us their passport/driving licence on their phones; sometimes in an app, sometimes just a photo. We couldn't accept any digital ID at all because we had no way to verify its authenticity (impossible to check a hologram on a still photo).

If they can make sure there is sufficient privacy (in that requests for identity are not logged and can't be traced to you or the checker) then the phone version would make the PASS scheme actually useful.

[ScottishYorkshireMan]

Bung received..

Tory coffers obviously swelled in the usual manner that provides a get out of jail free for any issue caused by a corporate entity. Go one, you blue corruption supporters mark me down. don't give a shit. The UK always gets EXACTLY the government it deserves.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: Bung received..

The PASS scheme was launched in 2000, under a Labour government (or what passed for one under Bliar). He was also the PM who created national ID cards, and the National Identity Register database that went with them. The Tory/LibDem coalition scrapped the scheme and destroyed the database, as one of their first acts in office.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Bung received..

That does not invalidate what OP says.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Bung received..

Seems like people don't get which events can trigger receipt of a bung.

Competitor asks to scrap the project. Kerching!

Competitor asks to win the tender for a new improved project. Kerching!

The event that does not trigger a bung:

Carry over previous party project like nothing happened.

[Blogitus Maximus]

Re: Bung received..

Looks to me like it's still going in some form, so not really scrapped is it.

https://www.pass-scheme.org.uk/2016/11/

[Missing Semicolon]

Re: Bung received..

Do you really think it's Ministers that get the bungs/directorships/whatever? Go look who actually signs off on these things - it's nobody elected.

Go look down the hall - Whitehall.

This is why things stay approximately the same degree of cr*p whoever is in power.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Bung received..

Why not both?

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: Bung received..

"Don't I get a cut?"

"No, Minister."

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Bung received..

Civil servants do the dirty work and ministers ensure anything looking in is diverted somewhere else.

[Terry 6]

Re: Bung received..

And there's the revolving door for both. Nice cushy, insanely well paid "consultancies", and seats on the board for not doing anything that the board even needs. Not all corruption comes in brown envelopes.

[R Soul]

Re: Bung received..

"Do you really think it's Ministers that get the bungs/directorships/whatever? Go look who actually signs off on these things - it's nobody elected."

They get well looked after too. There are plenty of cosy sinecures for senior bureaucrats when they retire from the civil service.

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Re: Bung received..

Why post that?

Do you actually believe it? How sad if so. How sad if not. Either way, Christ on a bike.

[Anonymous Coward]

What could possibly go wrong.

Seriously government and large corps should give Fuji a wide berth, they have a proven track record of messing things up

[elsergiovolador]

Re: What could possibly go wrong.

they have a proven track record of messing things up

It's like perpetuum mobile for government contracts. No wonder we pay some highest taxes in living memory and nothing to show for it.

[John Smith 19]

" give Fuji a wide berth, they have a proven track record of messing things up"

I've got some bad news for you Mr (or Ms) AC.

Every major SI (the only kind the senior civil service will deal with, as they gutted in-house skills decades ago, starting under Thatcher) has a history of IT related fu**ups.

But I agree anyone who knows anything about large client server systems (which is what Horizon was/is) would have known their "We have no remote access to the branches" was complete bu***hit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: " give Fuji a wide berth, they have a proven track record of messing things up"

I guess by your reply you work for Fujshitsu

[LybsterRoy]

Re: " give Fuji a wide berth, they have a proven track record of messing things up"

They probably had no remote access to the branches premises but the data - ah that's sitting on the server in the corner over there.

[John Smith 19]

They probably had no remote access to the branches premises

What an interesting use of language "Branch premises."

No they probably don't.

But the terminals are theirs, and they do have access to their memory and any hard drives on the box under the counter.

So that argument is pretty specious.

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Re: What could possibly go wrong.

People should give governments a wide berth, but they keep voting to make them bigger.

We don't need ID cards and we certainly don't need the social credit score that will surely follow.

[Will Godfrey]

You couldn't make it up!

Title says it all.

[Terry 6]

Failing up again

It seems that the big corporates can mess up as much and as often as they like. There's a total layer of impunity to protect them from consequences.

It's hard* to think of an honest reason for this.

*For "hard" read totally fucking impossible.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fujitsu obviously have no shame.

If they were a decent company then they should have barred themselves from bidding on any Government contract for 10years.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fujitsu obviously have no shame.

Nah. If they were a decent company, Fushitsu's executives would have followed the Japanese tradition of seppuku.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fujitsu obviously have no shame.

well, seppuku is way out of fashion (and even in Putin's Russia traditional window-jumping requires 3rd party assistance), what has the world come to?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fujitsu obviously have no shame.

One Fujshitu employee/manager has downvoted your post.

[excperr]

Contract for a million = peanuts. Long game shite with them, as usual.

[J. R. Hartley]

Yeah, I assumed that was a typo. Far too cheap, more likely a billion knowing how incompetent the UK is.

[xyz123]

No joking or exaggeration, but Fujitsu's plan here is to 'accidentally' intertwine itself with multiple UK ID systems, so they have to become the preferred bidder for future contracts related to ID.

This is the same shit they pulled with Chief. The code was ordered by the CEO/board and execs to be overly complicated to do even simple tasks, so no-one BUT Fujitsu had a hope in hell of supporting it.

FJ has also (internally) decided it would LOVE a database of 16-20yr olds so it can sell the data once its contracts in the UK finally shutdown.

They will have names, photos, addresses, date of birth and a host of other stuff to sell to scam organizations and foreign governments. Hell they already sell HMRC data to China from the Chief import/export system.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hell they already sell HMRC data to China from the Chief import/export system."

I've not heard of this, got a link?

[John Smith 19]

FJ has also (internally) decided it would LOVE a database of 16-20yr olds so it can sell the data

That's just a fringe benefit.

The dream of all lovers of a cradle-to-grave surveillance system (which is what Blair's NIR was actually. The card was the least Orwellian part of it) is a clean load of verified details, name, address, DoB and of course a photo.

This is the long game beloved of the data fetishists that believe that an orderly society begins with orderly people.

And by "Orderly" I mean people who can be tracked from cradle to grave.

[excperr]

Sleepwalking bit by bit, into a new world order...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's some Substance to that claim...

[psychonaut]

Not enough

It's only a million quid, its probably legit as there's very little overhead for backhanded of any value.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not enough

Bid low, and then pile on the sneaky hidden charges

[MrGreen]

Resist

Blair has been pushing Digital ID for decades.

They’ll sneak it in via things like CBDC’s.

They’ll offer free money to download an app or restrict access to things without the app. People will fall for it.

[Kingpleb]

Been there done that

Has everyone forgotten we did this circa 16yrs ago and then a new coalition decided it was good value for money to spend about 2yrs running costs to rip it out?

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Re: Been there done that

There was some semblance of classical liberalism in that version of the Conservative party - Cameron et al hadn't quite completed the left-wing makeover of the party. And the Lib Dems in coalition were a little bit more classically liberal than they are now too.

Now they're all just statist parties fighting over who gets to grow the state by the largest amount.

[ColinPa]

Why not open source it?

If they put the high level design out for review from the readers of The Register, then open sourced the code people might have confidence in it.

We could check they are using the right level of TLS etc. the data in the database is protected, they have audit controls on access etc.

[Barrie Shepherd]

So long as the cards self destruct when the holder reaches the age of 21 and no adults are required to carry or use them then I am Ok with them.

If they scope creep into adult life then no - we don't need them.

[Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells]

Even if they destroy the date when you turn 21 initially, that will eventually stop happening.

This is a necessary component of the social credit score.

[John70]

One step closer to having Multi-Pass

[Tron]

The data you are worried about being collected (and DNA)....

...was most likely scraped during the pandemic, downloading the Covid app or getting tested. Sending a video where you spoke gave them a voice sample and facial recog. They are already nicking people using facial recog and handing out free dashcams for drivers to report each other, so the police can work from home.

[navarac]

Madness

Who are the morons that award these contracts? Must be politicians or Civil Servants. Neither group has any day-to-day common sense.

[Michael]

ID is not required

You can ride a moped at 16. That is why you can apply from 15 and 9 months. To ensure it arrives on time. You can learn to drive off the public road network and sit your exam on your birthday. I tried to do this to get my licence before the new photo licence was introduced. Unfortunately my birthday was the month before the change and I couldn't get a test booked within a reasonable distance from my home.

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/bike-categories-ages-and-licence-requirements

My five year old can brew a beer and could drink as much as he wants. Licence laws only prevent the purchase of alcohol for those under 18. Unless they are 16-17 and accompanied by an adult and eating a meal.

https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law

[Vader]

At least with Fujitsu we can expect them to fuck it up and deny it.

[Zippy´s Sausage Factory]

I wonder how the UK government haven't noticed what happened to the last party that suggested ID cards, shortly before an election? Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Smokers card

I wonder if this is going to be for the smokers card... you need a card in order to prove that you are in the "still allowed to smoke" age bracket...

[D.A.]

Couldn’t they just use our Temu account?

[BiffoTheBorg]

Missing a trick here

Surely given that the Chinese are global leaders in tracking people, they should be the main contractors, would probably be the cheapest and ByteDance has demonstrated the ability to build world class systems.

[MrTuK]

Just curious about this ID schem.

Just wondering if this ID scheme will be the starting point for a Digital currency Bank account that everyone will be forced to have, so that the UK Gov can collect tax on every transaction - EG; The money one gives to child member of their own family on their birthday so that they can choose their own presents or possible the rent of a loan that one has borrowed from a close friend or family member so that it would get 30% from the original loan and then when returning the amount one would have to add 30% so that the person that loaned you actually gets back what was loaned out ! sheesh the UK Gov will be known as loan sharks - Which I suppose they are ! Notice I haven't pointed this to any party cos they all screw us the same in the end !