back to article Garlic chicken without garlic? Critics think Amazon recipe book was cooked up by AI

Late last year, Sam Altman, the optimistic CEO of chatbot manufacturer OpenAI, predicted artificial general intelligence would be with us in five years, give or take. But as fans of William Gibson will know, the future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed, and Amazon has already given us a glimpse of what is in …

  1. Andy Non Silver badge
    Coat

    Sounds like someone

    has been cooking the books.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Sounds like someone

      So that's what AI means: Amazon Indigestion!

    2. KittenHuffer Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Sounds like someone

      Sounds more like a crock to me!

  2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Baby Bio

    At least her biography is 'word salad' so that's one claim to authenticity.

  3. Joe Drunk
    Facepalm

    So AI is one of two things

    1. A way for corporations to cheap out on customer service.

    2. An automated way for scammers to produce content.

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: So AI is one of two things

      I imagine most of us here have the skills to flood Amazon with things like this. What stops us is we have consciences.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So AI is one of two things

        Speak for yourself. I have "The Garlic cookbook without garlic" generating right now. The introduction just says "feel free to add garlic". After that I'm going to do the sequel "The Chilli cookbook without chillies". Then to complete the trilogy I'm doing "The Cheese cookbook without cheese" though I'm not going to fully utilise AI for that just to spice thing up and add some personal favourites such as Toast and one I like to call Macaroni.

        1. ravenviz Silver badge

          Re: So AI is one of two things

          I’m waiting for, “Fat Fighters - Cooking with Dust”!

        2. the spectacularly refined chap

          Re: So AI is one of two things

          Then to complete the trilogy I'm doing "The Cheese cookbook without cheese" though I'm not going to fully utilise AI for that just to spice thing up and add some personal favourites such as Toast and one I like to call Macaroni.

          I have a friend who used to have a cheese problem. She's now decided she's lactose intolerant and can only eat vegan cheese which is "shite".

          I did point out she can't possibly be lactose intolerant, because she isn't middle class, but that fell on deaf ears.

        3. ABehrens

          Cheese Cookbook

          All necessary ingredients can be found at Mr Wensleydale's cheese shop.

      2. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: So AI is one of two things

        ...and those without a conscience exploit the far more profitable field of political consulting.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So AI is one of two things

      I'm waiting for 3. An AI teacher for babies.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    3. 42656e4d203239 Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: So AI is one of two things

      ¿por qué no los dos?

      It is not a zero sum....

  4. HuBo Silver badge
    Joke

    Crank'em out Flo!

    Aw Come'on ... I'm sure the most likely explanation for Louise's missing right shoulder and mismatched earrings is that "Like many amateur photographers, [she does] occasionally experiment with editing". Plus, as is well known, "moths" are light eaters that enjoy neither beef nor garlic ... hence the discounted number of recipes, and ingredients. Her one-shoulder bandit crokpuff recipes will surely cure the obesity epidemic ... +1000!

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Crank'em out Flo!

      Ah, yes, the moths. That's why so many recopies are missing. The moths got at them.

  5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
    Pirate

    Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

    I saw it mentioned somewhere, possibly this very august publication, that some tests with an AI creating recipes came up with food using outright dangerous and poisonous ingredients.

    It'll be interesting to see the lawsuits if/when someone cooks up something that kills them or makes them ill and just who the defendants are.

    1. MonkeyJuice Bronze badge

      Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

      I seem to recall it was an AI generated wild mushroom guide, but gosh, it's all such a blur in the future it's hard to keep up.

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

        Wasn’t there a supermarket that gave recipes with bleach in theme?

        1. EricB123 Silver badge

          Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

          It had an app where you could ask for recipes for the ingredients of your choice. It wasn't long before cooking with Clorox and sulfuric acid became quite popular.

        2. MonkeyJuice Bronze badge

          Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

          There was a president that did that too.

    2. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

      Youtubers have been making cooking recipes that will kill you for years without any consequences.

      1. MonkeyJuice Bronze badge

        Re: Dangerous and poisonous recipies?

        Shush, drink your jenkem.

  6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

    Why ?

    She writes recipies about garlic chicken containing no garlic.

    Sorry, that's bullshit. I'm not going to excuse my language. Either you pony up a recipe with garlic, or you invent a fancy title about how your chicken tastes like it has garlic but doesn't.

    I'm French. You say the recipe is about garlic chicken, you damn well better have garlic in your recipe.

    1. Mage Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: I'm French. You say the recipe is about garlic chicken

      I think your nationality is irrelevant in this case.

      The recipe is a lie.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm French. You say the recipe is about garlic chicken

        You played Portal?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

      What about Coq au vin? I tried it once and it had no Coq in it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

        There's an amazon review that needs writing: "needs more coq". Maybe they'll run it next to the reviews for the Oxo tower...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

          Hmmm, me says your filthy mouse could use an introduction to the language of Coq!

          1. MonkeyJuice Bronze badge

            Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

            ProgrammingLanguageTheorist69 has entered the chat

      2. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

        Just wait for the ratatouille.

      3. Mage Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: What about Coq au vin?

        Statistically I expect half the chicks to grow up into cockerels. So historically most capons and chickens were juvenile cocks. You only need one to increase the flock. See also the reason for veal, calf, lamb. The eggs and milk are desirable. Loads of cocks, rams and bulls are undesirable.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What about Coq au vin?

          Hence the success of Unixes

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: What about Coq au vin?

            Eunuchs Shirley ?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: What about Coq au vin?

              Shhhh ... hush-hush ... Alright now, I'll explain the joke (quietly): "The name Unics (Uniplexed Information and Computing Service, pronounced as "eunuchs"), a pun on Multics (Multiplexed Information and Computer Services), was initially suggested for the project in 1970" (source). La-la-la-la-la ...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: What about Coq au vin?

                Yes everybody knows that ... but apparently you missed it - capon ....

        2. ravenviz Silver badge

          Re: What about Coq au vin?

          Only a minuscule proportion grow into cockerels. The rest are either gassed or shredded alive soon after hatching.

          1. Joe W Silver badge

            Re: What about Coq au vin?

            Nowadays: yes. The breeds focused on high egg yield do not produce enough meat to be viable.

            There's a farm close by, they do raise the cockerels and then butcher them for meat. But they keep one of the older breeds where this still works. I have a strong dislike for the taste of chicken (yes, in contrast to the "chicken" you buy at the supermarket, which tastes of nothing, chicken has a flavour - one that I cannot stand), but the sausages are quite ok.

        3. Clarecats

          Re: What about Coq au vin?

          Statistically, the vast majority of male chicks do not live longer than a day. Nowadays.

      4. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

        I had baked Alaska once and there was definitely no Alaska in it!

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

          I had an upside down cake once. I couldn't tell which way was up and felt cheated.

      5. jake Silver badge

        Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

        Last time I made I made Coq au Vin it definitely had coq in it. A friend finally got sick and tired of listening to his roosters dueling for the right to signal the crack of dawn. How he managed to put up with it for a couple years is beyond me ... But the four of them made a nice large pot of stew.

        1. NXM

          Re: "if there is a real Luisa Florence writing these books, we can only apologize"

          I tried making a meal out of one of our cock-a-doodle-every-morning-at-5am coqs, and it turned out to be made of string. Even after 4 hours of careful cooking, it was still string.

  7. m4r35n357 Silver badge

    Such terrific fun

    watching this whole shit-show develop.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Such terrific fun

      Even though it doesn't smell of garlic.

      1. m4r35n357 Silver badge

        Re: Such terrific fun

        Yuk!

  8. xyz123 Silver badge

    Garlic chicken without the garlic - It's just chicken.

    Chicken Garlic - It's garlic without the chicken!

    1. MrXonTR

      Someone once offered me "pre-cooked cookie dough". Still don't know what kind of joke that was. The intentional kind or the drag them off to funny farm kind?

    2. GruntyMcPugh

      I like to cook with Elephant Garlic. I have a large crock pot, of course.

  9. steelpillow Silver badge
    Devil

    Then again

    Has any AI yet stepped beyond mere authoring and reviewing, and indulged in the ancient pastime of buying back copies of the book to boost its position in the sales rankings?

    It will come, O my sisters and brothers and rainbows, it - and worse - will come.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Then again

      More to the point, who does the publisher notify when it gets remaindered?

      That's kind of another way of saying "follow the money" ...

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: Then again

        I suspect that with modern print-on-demand logistics, the concept of "remaindered" is purely a digital one!

  10. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Recipes that stretch out over 2,000 days

    Rabbit pie (feeds 15)

    First, breed your rabbits.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Recipes that stretch out over 2,000 days

      Obligatory XKCD if you want pears with your rabbits.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Recipes that stretch out over 2,000 days

      But be careful of which breed you breed. Nobody like to find hares in their rabbit pie.

    3. Arthur the cat Silver badge

      Re: Recipes that stretch out over 2,000 days

      Rabbit pie (feeds 15)

      First, breed your rabbits.

      There's a recent Nature article on python farming as an efficient(*) source of food. 101 Python recipes could be a best seller, capturing two markets.

      (*) Being cold blooded(**) they convert food to meat far better than mammals and lose little weight when temporarily starved.

      (**) Pedants: don't start.

      1. spacecadet66 Silver badge

        Re: Recipes that stretch out over 2,000 days

        The Internet, and by the extension the world, would be a much better place if "pedants: don't start" was understood to be a universal ground rule in all online forums.

  11. that one in the corner Silver badge

    Publish only up to three books every day

    That would have made Isaac Asimov slow down.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Publish only up to three books every day

      But Asimov had a whole bunch of robots to help him.

  12. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    I wonder if they are tasty?

    First, the limiting AI authors to 3 books a day does help the situation to a limited extent; there were some publishers like 4, 5 years ago that had 1000+ books; they'd have ones that the description openly admitted was just a book with like the digits of pi, or randomly generated digits, or whatever; I'm PRETTY sure the plan was to firehose out enough books they'd have books listed on almost anybody's search and they hoped someone would accidentally hit "buy it now"? Nevertheless it would have made finding real books on Amazon completely impossible if they hadn't imposed SOME limit.

    What would be interesting was if the AI somehow "knew" what flavors various ingredients imparted (for example, a garlic chicken with no garlic, but the right combination of other spices to give it a garlicky flavor), or if somehow an AI could be trained for deliciousness and generate the optimally delicious recipes based on a set of ingredients. I imagine neither was the case here though. I wonder if the recipes are (for the most part) at least reasonably tasty or if it's just word salad that probably ends up being edible?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: I wonder if they are tasty?

      Recipes have a relatively well-defined layout, so it probably looks like a recipe.

      But a recipe that actually works is entirely dependent on the details. Generative LLMs are really bad at detail.

      1. The commentard formerly known as Mister_C Silver badge

        Re: I wonder if they are tasty?

        I found a recipe on t'interwebs about 10 years ago (so probably predated AI chefbots). It took several attempts to work out the correct sequence for the method including all the "while this then that" sections that didn't allow for task times. It demonstrated that there's more to writing a successful recipe than bunging together a list of ingredients and a list of instructions, so it'll probably be a while before AI recipes will be worth buying.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder if they are tasty?

      Not sure there are options for garlic ... but for grilled chicken on the other hand mealworm larvae can easily do the trick. One needs care however to add the garlic at the end only as allicin is a natural insect repellent that the bugs might flee if still conscious during execution.

    3. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: I wonder if they are tasty?

      "if somehow an AI could be trained for deliciousness and generate the optimally delicious recipes based on a set of ingredients."

      That's going to be one of the harder things to automate. There's a lot of subjectiveness with whether a given collection of ingredients are delicious or noxious, and some people will fall into either group. A lot of successful recipes use trial and error. For example, I decided to make a certain dish and just improvised a recipe. The result was...edible, and it didn't taste terrible, but it was clearly not going to win any awards. Still, I could see that there was promise in it, so I started to adjust the amounts of some ingredients and some times. I wasn't going back to the drawing board, I wasn't putting in completely different things, just trying what would happen if I used different proportions and more heat. I think it helped. I might serve it to you and get a negative response though, so all I've proven so far is that I like what I eventually came up with.

      The AI can't do any of that. It can probably suggest a possible recipe, but perfecting it will require some people who can explain what they like and don't like, and if it's supposed to appeal to a large group, you need a lot of them.

  13. xyz Silver badge

    What's a crock pot?

    I'm a bloke and can't cook.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: What's a crock pot?

      You do realize that hacking food was one of the first hacks that humans invented, right?

      I won't go into the chemistry and physics of cooking ...

  14. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Don't do what we do

    Look around. This publication itself seems to be heavily reliant on generated images for its articles these days. So why point fingers?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Don't do what we do

      > Look around. This publication itself seems to be heavily reliant on generated images for its articles these days

      Question is, how much are they making of you with these images?

      For that matter, how much more/less useful are they than all the stock photos they would otherwise use? Are you really going to reading or ignoring any article based upon the image?

      Are they even claiming, directly or indirectly, that those images are or are not generated by AI?

  15. Ken Shabby Silver badge
    Alert

    Strawberry Tart

    Well it’s got some rat in it (3, rather a lot really)

  16. Oliver Mayes

    I had a similar experience recently, buying a book of cocktail recipes from amazon that was very clearly AI generated. Half of the recipes made no sense, ingredients listed that were never used in the instructions, the same recipe three times in a row under completely different names. When I went back to look I realised how fake all the reviews sounded now, praise for sections that weren't in the book, comments about the full colour photographs of the finished cocktails when there were no pictures at all in the purely monochrome book.

    I just don't trust amazon any more, they've gone from selling useful products to just being a dumping ground for chinese dropshipping sites, you can't trust anything they sell to be usable.

  17. mif

    Wasn't there something a while back about returned Kindle books costing authors money because of some sort of data transfer fee?

    1. PRR Silver badge
      Facepalm

      > Wasn't there something a while back about returned Kindle books costing authors money because of some sort of data transfer fee?

      https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1107109243/amazon-kindle-ebook-return-policy

      "Those suggesting the read-and-return practice think they're "sticking it to Amazon," but in reality are only harming the authors,...."

      That article says authors may be paid before returns come in. I _do_ recall authors being made to pay the cellphone ("Whispernet") costs but that delivery may have faded with the death of 2G? My Kindles do WiFi not celldata.

      1. 43300 Silver badge

        Don't think there are any Kindles available now with SIM cards, are there?

  18. tin 2

    "We have a robust set of methods that help us proactively detect content that violates our guidelines"

    also generated by AI, clearly.

    1. spacecadet66 Silver badge

      Nah, probably just good old fashioned lying.

  19. Frank Bitterlich

    The response, translated

    "James Drummond, Amazon spokesperson, told us..."

    translates to:

    "The Amazon PR response AI responded with: 'Bummer, isn't it?'"

    1. Missing Semicolon Silver badge

      Re: The response, translated

      Yes it really is about "until you complain, we'll just keep taking the cash, thanks!". Otherwise, "not our problem kthxgby!"

  20. Bebu
    Windows

    Garlic chicken sans garlic

    Next toad in the hole without toad, spotted dick without the... spots?

    LLM taking on natural language frequently comes a cropper and I suspect with quality food writing which is more literature than just a collection of recipes, will often crash out completely.

    Modern human writers are often left floundering trying to reconstruct recipes not much more than century old.

    Real classics of culinary literature generally only dedicate a small part to the actual recipes. Understanding what the recipe is attempting to achieve with the ingredients and how the procedure might achieve that, is the interesting part - otherwise its little more than a boring shopping list. The provenance of the recipe - when and where it was collected - is also of interest not just to the social historian.

    Anyway another piece of civililization being shat on.

    I don't understand why anyone would buy a cookbook from amazon etc when second hand book stores and charity shops have shelves of them at throw-away prices and public libraries generally a large sections too. While there is fashion in food trying some of the recipes from the 50s and 60s is interesting and in a time of increasing austerity might again become fashionable. Offal dishes might make a welcome return.

    1. MonkeyCee

      Re: Garlic chicken sans garlic

      To be fair there's only really a couple of cookbooks per cuisine that are worth it, then a few more decent ones with many of the same recipes made more accessible, and then a zillion repeating the same.

      For example, Larousse Gastonomique and your choice of an Escoffier will cover pretty much everything classical French and much Northern European, but will assume you already know how to actually cook, and what specific terms mean. There also built and costed like textbooks. Delia Smith will cover much of the same ground, but hold your hand while doing so, and be more reasonable price.

      Most other cookbooks are, broadly, junk. Certainly compared to cooking forums and discussion groups.

      There's a few where it's mostly junk, but there's a few gems. The Fat Duck is one of those, where there's some nice detailled stuff on setting agar and xanthium for plating sauces, a proper OCD detailing of making the perfect chips (which should be published by itself) and a bunch of BS :D

  21. TheRealRoland
    Angel

    Always cook your popcorn al dente!

    Ooh! ooh! Is this the one where it tells you to cook your popcorn al dente?

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