back to article UK and US lack regulation to protect space tourists from cosmic ray dangers

International regulations governing space flight lack rules to protect space tourism passengers from the ill-effects of cosmic radiation, according to researchers. Over the last decade, entrepreneurial billionaires such as Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson have launched commercial space flights targeting tourists that are …

  1. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Who gives a sh**

    The types spending wasting inordinate amounts of cash to go into space for fun can all rot in Hell-IMHO.

    1. Lurko Silver badge

      Re: Who gives a sh**

      Seems a little harsh, although I'm indifferent to their fate. And so far a few minutes of space tourism seems less risky than other billionaire pursuits like visiting the Titanic, or getting on the wrong side of Putin. And if those don't appeal, they can always try the old staple of billionaire population control, helicopter crashing. Very popular that last one.

    2. may_i Silver badge

      Re: Who gives a sh**

      It's their cash. You just sound like you envy them.

      As to the utility of bureaucrats creating rules to protect people against dangers, I'm not convinced that anything useful will come of that.

      1. Lurko Silver badge

        Re: Who gives a sh**

        "As to the utility of bureaucrats creating rules to protect people against dangers, I'm not convinced that anything useful will come of that."

        In this instance, or more generally?

        1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

          Re: Who gives a sh**

          I'm just wondering if our local star reads government rules & regulations.

      2. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Who gives a sh**

        Nah. Just, literally, do not care what happens to them.. If they suffer consequences it is indeed their choice.

        There are, perhaps environmental implications, but I don't suppose this does much more damage than their other activities.

    3. AndrueC Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Who gives a sh**

      If it encourages more investment in space then I'm all for it. As a species we need to be investing more. So many resources out there just waiting for us and yet we continue to fight over the scraps of resources down here.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Who gives a sh**

      No it's fine. Billionaires recycling their cash into high-tech industries and shortening their lives at the same time.

      I'm sure when the wealthy realise the dangers, it'll get fixed.

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    A lead-lined coffin capsule should be able to offer enough protection.

    1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Sorry, not really. Cosmic rays can easily penetrate a few cm of lead. And if you get hit by an Oh-My-God particle*, it will hardly notice you.

      The document at https://www.pnnl.gov/main/publications/external/technical_reports/PNNL-20693.pdf provides shielding capabilities of different materials from cosmic rays , see page 15 for Lead. "Note that for lead, even after 100 cm the secondary generation shows still more low-energy neutrons."

      * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh-My-God_particle "The Oh-My-God particle's energy was estimated as (3.2±0.9)×10**20 eV, "

      1. David Hicklin Silver badge

        Water is the best shield, hence the idea that long duration missions should have stuff like water and food reserves spaced around the exterior walls of the craft (inside obviously!)

        1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
          Alien

          Hang on! Does that mean all those icy comets and asteroids could be alien spaceships?

  3. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    FFFS

    For fucks fucking sake.

  4. heyrick Silver badge

    Look...

    Anybody that can afford to go into space can afford a tin foil hat. Or to talk to medical professionals with actual experience of people that have been into space.

    There don't need to be "regulations" to appease some rich blokes that want to dick around in a different playground.

    "significant health implications for crew and passengers"

    I'd have thought the idea of sitting atop an enormous controlled (sometimes) explosion might have been a greater concern.

    1. blackcat Silver badge

      Re: Look...

      "I'd have thought the idea of sitting atop an enormous controlled (sometimes) explosion might have been a greater concern."

      Or one where there is NO interlock on the re-entry system such that it could be deployed in any phase of flight.

      One would have hoped that in their code might be if(booster == on) return false;

      Or at ABSOLUTE minimum a 2 stage lock on the handle so you've got to be really sure you want to pull it.

      A slightly less catastrophic incident of yanking the wrong handle involved an F14 where the back seater accidentally grabbed the ejection handle when the aircraft rolled inverted.

    2. John Sager

      Re: Look...

      Not everything needs regulating to the last dot and comma. The whole business of regulation consumes both human & capital resources that could usefully be used elsewhere. Caveat Emptor seems a good common-sense response, though I have to say that excessive wealth does seem to destroy that facility in some of them.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Look...

        Not to mention that currently, apart from well regulated trips to the ISS[*], the radiation exposure for "space tourists" is probably less than a few high altitude passenger jet flights per year. On the other hand, the time it takes governments to get regulations in place, things may well have changed.

        [*] Space tourists to the ISS stay a hell of a lot less time than crew, and crew are monitored already, so by definition, the "tourists" are too.

  5. Howard Sway Silver badge

    The billionaires have the cash to lobby against such regulations, but maybe they don't want them...

    Soon it will be de rigueur for the libertarian billionaire class to flaunt their mutations, to show that they've been to space, unlike the lesser fry. They will be desperate to get to the next cocktail party, in order to show off the new ear that's growing out of their chin.

    1. Eclectic Man Silver badge

      Re: The billionaires ...

      the libertarian billionaire class

      On the radio this morning (BBC Radio 4, 'Start the Week') they were described thusly:

      "When they were young they wanted to be rich. Now they are rich they want to be young."

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The billionaires ...

        Yeah, I hear old walnut face Murdock just got engaged again, aged about 90. I hope it's a short engagement or she'll never get her inheritance :-)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just put some sun visors in. They're had them in cars for years.

    I don't think this is much to worry about till us pleb are going up besides if you have a rocket scientist building rockets who doesn't understand space radiation then space radiation is the least of your worries.

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      FAIL

      Wellll

      We had submarine scientist\expert try that a few years back, went a bit pear shaped & ended up pancake (crepe) shaped in August last year.

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Wellll

        The big decisions for the submarine were made by the CEO, not an engineer. The manufacturers wrote back that the parts ordered were not qualified for the depths listed in the purchaser's advertising and offered to build parts of the required strength. The CEO thought he knew better.

      2. AndrueC Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Wellll

        But so what? I understand that it was a tragedy for the families involved but I struggle to see why it should be seen as anything more than that. They paid their money, they were told multiple times in the contract that it could kill them. They all surely had enough money to find out how dodgy it was (several people backed out precisely because of that).

        For me it only becomes a problem when people are unknowingly dragged into the tragedy. So if a private space craft falls on a populated area and injures or killed people that needs regulation. But if a bunch of rich people choose to take the risk of going to space then good for them. It will spur further investment in space and if they die - whilst being a tragedy for friends and family - it just helps redistribute their wealth.

  7. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Earthly dangers

    > Damage to DNA, mutations, uncontrolled cell division and malignancy. Is space tourism worth the risk?

    All of which can be got from lying in the sun for too long. Yet governments don't feel the need to ban / regulate ot limit that.

    1. xyz Silver badge

      Re: Earthly dangers

      YET!!

      1. Pete 2 Silver badge

        Re: Earthly dangers

        Given the popularity of sunbathing. I suspect it would be more a case of taxing it than banning it.

        Though in the UK, it wouldn't bring in much.

    2. Bitsminer Silver badge

      Re: Earthly dangers

      The biggest Earthly danger I can foresee is the infestation of condo time-share sales droids at the spaceport.

  8. Empire of the Pussycat

    Evolution in action

    (body)

  9. spuck

    So neither the space tourist companies nor the billionaire passengers have a lawyer?

    Not sure why the government needs to be involved for this at all.

    Surely anyone getting in an experimental rocketship has signed a contract before handing over hundreds of thousands of dollars for the privilege. Just as surely that contract outlines that the passenger is assuming all risk for the trip, even if that contract was written by a 1st year law student.

  10. stiine Silver badge

    I'm not sure what they thing is going to happen.

    Its not like their organisation is going to pony up the cost of a single flight on either Blue Origin or SpaceX rockets, to say nothing of paying for enough flights to generate enough non-astronaut data for it to make a difference. Besides, many, if not most of worlds astronauts are pilots, so how are they going to control for flight time?

  11. bernmeister
    Alert

    Regener-Pfotzer Maximum

    A complex subject if you have to take into account the odd solar storm. Without solar storms the radiation levels are very predictable.

  12. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
    Joke

    By danger...

    ... They surely mean "opportunity," right? Each trip up into space means that some lucky space tourists have the chance of coming back as the Fantastic Four. Sure, most people will just come back with cancer, but someone's got to get lucky, right?

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Alien

      Re: By danger...

      As long as they don't come back like Victor Carroon (& by extension the rest of the crew).

  13. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge
    Joke

    Put it into the EULA (Entire Universe Legal Agreement), and be good with it

    The passenger and the space tourism operating company agree that said passenger should not develop any health issues from the trip to space.

    If said passenger fails to adhere to the above clause, the operating company reserves its right to seek damages from said passenger.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Put it into the EULA (Entire Universe Legal Agreement), and be good with it

      Or worse .... cancel the return leg and force the passenger to rebook, subject to availability.

  14. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Old news

    The first plan for regulation of space tourism was to wait a few more years until it became clear what regulations would be useful. When the deadline arrived Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic both argued they were still too clueless to propose useful regulations so the deadline was extended.

    The purpose of regulation is to set a common safety bar for all providers. An accident caused by one provider cheaping out damages the prospects for all. The regulations will come eventually. The tricky part will be getting them to focus on passenger safety rather than bashing competitors.

    Those space tourism market size numbers are silly. It looks like they were created so Branson can sell off the last of his Virgin Galactic shares before the shit hits the fan. When that time came for Virgin Orbit Branson lent VO a little operating capitol in return for a claim on all the assets. The asset sale repaid Branson's investment leaving the other investors with a company with nothing but debts. I expect the same plan to work for VG.

  15. RedGreen925

    Fuck em let the parasites die.

  16. Robin Bradshaw

    How did they solve this problem on the international spacestation? last year Frank Rubio spent a year in space on the ISS so if its safe for him for a year a quick jolly to the Kármán line and back should be OK

  17. G R Goslin

    Potentially

    I rather like the inclusion of "Potentially". I could "potentially" become a multimillionaire, by buying a few dozen tickets in the National Lottery. But I don't think I'll bother. I might not win., and there'd be all that publicity.

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