back to article Airbnb warns hosts who use indoor security cameras they may face eviction

Airbnb guests will be delighted to know that their short-term rentals don't contain indoor security cameras – once a change to the platform's community policy takes effect at the end of April. Airbnb on Monday posted news of its plan to ban the use of indoor security cameras in its listings. The use of indoor security cameras …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

    Isn't that fun ?

    When I go to a hotel, I reasonably expect privacy everywhere.

    I do not expect my face to show up on the hotel's Facebook page of reservations. Nor do I expect that I be found on the hotel's Facebook restaurant guest page.

    I am willing to accept that there be a security cam in the garage, but that will be the extent of my understanding.

    If you so much as show a pic of me wandering around in your garden, I will sue your ass off.

    1. IGotOut Silver badge

      Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

      Everywhere?

      So in the hotel, you think there are no cameras in the entrance, the reception, the car park, the park?

      Ok sure.

      1. Snake Silver badge

        Re: everywhere

        There is a difference between "inferred privacy" and "absolute privacy".

        When you check into a hotel into today's world you almost certainly expect there to be at least some sort of surveillance gear being used.

        But, if you ready the OP's post again very carefully, that does *not* give them the right to post their internal surveillance images for general public use.

        You are DAMN right I don't expect security camera footage of my visit in your hotel to be posted to the internet, accessible to the general public, or even used in promotional materials without my permission. I understand you need security in today's world, that doesn't give you the right to be nilly-willy with the data you collect from that.

    2. Alistair
      Windows

      Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

      Uuuum Pascal:

      Depending on *where* you're staying there are cameras (usually quite a few) in the lobby, elevators, corridors, stairwells, pools and garage, and pretty much every square inch of exterior grounds.

      I will note that that vast majority of those hotels and motels that do this are very much unlikely to publish any of those images they collect on anything like their webpages or social media profiles *without* at least asking permission, usually politely and by tossing you an upgrade. (I have had that joy, once, long ago, pre soc-med, but for the Travel agency website)

      I've seen even fairly scruffy off main track motels with more camera coverage than your average shopping mall.

      The *issue* with AirBnB was that while the legal entity permitted cameras indoors on the provider's properties, for the provider's personal comfort, security and whatnot, they discovered that the world is full of perverted SoB's that seem to think that they can get away with violating their tenant's privacy, personal space, personal security and safety by installing cameras in places they had no permissions for and then subsequently publishing those images to places like PornHub, the dark web and various other image sharing sites of spectacularly questionable integrity.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

      The amount of privacy you enjoy will depend upon the laws of the relevant jurisdiction: more in Switzerland or Sweden, less so in America or China.

      This is just a move to give AirBnB plausible deniability and indemnity in case someone thinks their privacy has been illegally invaded.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

      The only place in a proper hotel you can be sure there are no cameras are your room, public toilets and often the restaurant. Everywhere else is usually covered.

      1. unbender

        Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

        I spent many years managing the networks in a medium sized hotel.

        The only place not covered by at least two cameras was the interior of guest bedrooms and the toilets, the police had made comprehensive CCTV a condition of their license.

    5. SVD_NL Silver badge

      Re: "where guests can reasonably expect privacy expectations"

      There's a huge difference between recording and publishing.

      Having security cameras often only requires you to post a notice somewhere (sometimes you don't even need to).

      Using those images is subject to relevant laws, be it surveillance laws, employee surveillance laws, or customer data protection laws.

      You're constantly being recorded everywhere, and that's fine. Publishing those images without consent is almost always illegal (public spaces are usually an exception, there is no expectation of privacy there)

      And the main reason for these changes are pervs that film people in bedrooms, toilets, showers, pools, etc. and add it to their personal wank tank, or even publish/share those images.

      There's been too many stories of that happening, so AirBnB is just responding to customer concerns.

  2. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    Yeah - I imangine that the global team of AirBnB inspectors and enforcers are, as I write, packing their bags and heading off to make sure that this new policy is complied with.

  3. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Workaround

    An ABnB host can simply pay neighbors for access to data recorded by those neighbors' cameras, which "just happen" to be pointed at the windows of an ABnB host's home. "They're not my cameras, so I'm in compliance with the new rule. Ha-ha-ha!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Workaround

      Not in the UK you can't. By Law you're not supposed to point CCTV cameras into areas where people can reasonably expect privacy.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Workaround

        .. and your camera's are supposed to only seeYOUR premises (one of the fun problems with many of the door camera's).

        1. Hubert Cumberdale Silver badge

          Re: Workaround

          "and your camera's [sic] are supposed to only seeYOUR premises"

          Perhaps sadly, that's not true.

      2. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Workaround

        Yes, and the police will get right on with collaring violators of that suggestion/rule/law. Yup, just as soon as they've taken care of the problem of people smoking drugs in bus shelters. /sarcasm

  4. DS999 Silver badge

    Easy fix for Register readers

    Devices to spot hidden cameras are readily available, and to be sure you didn't miss one a Flipper Zero can be used to flood all the wifi channels with garbage so his cameras can't communicate (wired cameras are much larger and therefore easy to spot)

    Is that legal? No. But the owner can't exactly complain, as he'd have to explain how he figured out that his wifi wasn't working when you never made such a complaint to him (and can act innocent and say I didn't even try to use your wifi I'm using my phone's data)

    1. Catkin Silver badge

      Re: Easy fix for Register readers

      I'm sure everyone around you would be perfectly happy with you screwing up their WiFi for the duration of your stay and Ofcom/local equivalent would be entirely understanding. While you're at it, buy a GPS jammer, I hear they're a good laugh.

      I don't own any spy cameras but my standard IP cameras all also loop record to a flash storage card. I would be surprised if this weren't a particularly advantageous feature included in something more clandestine.

      1. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: Easy fix for Register readers

        I'm assuming a detached house where that wouldn't be a problem unless you crank the power up to the max

    2. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: Easy fix for Register readers

      "to be sure you didn't miss one a Flipper Zero can be used to flood all the wifi channels with garbage so his cameras can't communicate"

      That might work with 2.4 GHz only WiFi, but trying to flood all the 5 GHz bands is not going to be possible with a small board. You'll need more antennas and more power for that. It also won't stop a camera that records locally and transmits when possible, or in fact one that only records locally to save on power and someone physically collects the card to see what they got. Oh, and people are going to be pretty annoyed when you do it. If you're going to try it, it's useful to know why it won't work.

      1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Easy fix for Register readers [Nuking it from Orbit]

        Forget the Flipper; it's time to fire up my 5KW spark-gap transmitter!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And ?

    It really matters not a jot what AirBnB put out while they are shovelling the money into their bank account. You can bet your (and their) bottom dollar that if it comes a a dispute, they'll just go "nothing to do with us, guv, take it up with the owner. Now be a luvvie and pass that suitcase of fivers on your way out please."

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: And ?

      But, but the naughty hosts "could have their account removed."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        But, but the naughty hosts "could have their account removed."

        They *could* yes.

        But then AirBnB suddenly remember they get paid because of the hosts and don't.

        See any service that relies on money from, it's advertisers.

    2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: And ?

      It really matters not a jot what AirBnB put out while they are shovelling the money into their bank account. You can bet your (and their) bottom dollar that if it comes a a dispute, they'll just go "nothing to do with us, guv, take it up with the owner.

      I'm guessing AirBnB also accepts no liability if their guests trash a rental. Or if guests are attacked by someone who's broken in. I guess in the first case, the renter can be held liable if you can prove the damage was done during their rental. The security one seems harder and riskier though. Internal security cameras can be a really good idea, so covering entry and exit points. All it would seem to need is a protocol stating the apartment does have a security system, it will be recording and recordings will be wiped as part of the checkout procedure.

      Still leaves some potential for shenanigans, ie people renting AirBnB's to party or shoot pron that might show evidence of illegal stuff happening, but if housekeeping shows no damage, there's no need to watch the footage.

    3. Adam JC

      Re: And ?

      Don't forget to leave the towels in the bath, load the dishwasher, mop the floors, mow the grass, etc - lest you get shafted by the inevitable 'cleaning fee'!

  6. Mark 78

    Other side of this.

    As someone who is involved with a B&B I'm glad I'm not on AirBnB, as most small B&B's and guesthouses rely on a camera in the reception or breakfast room to monitor guests coming down for breakfast, from the kitchen, and this will make it more difficult and end up with people saying "I sat there for 15 minutes before anyone came to serve me".

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Other side of this.

      Use a bell on the door, it worked fine in the days before cheap CCTV cameras.

  7. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Last time I checked, my living room and entire house, in fact, was a "private space"...

    1. Spazturtle Silver badge

      But the lounge area of a hotel is not a private space. Only the bathroom and bedroom are private.

      1. JimmyPage

        And ? (again)

        and AirBnB is not a hotel. As you will discover very quickly if you expect any customer service.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And ? (again)

          Also, don't expect it to be up to any regulations that genuine B&Bs, guesthouses and hotels have to adhere to. Most don't even have a proper fire alarm connected to smoke detectors, just using household ones, and are not registered with local council food hygiene, or have proper business insurance etc

  8. 43300 Silver badge

    And what are the chances of this actually getting enforced?

  9. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

    An empty set?

    good news to those who were worried about privacy in their Airbnb short-stay

    Why is anyone who is "worried about privacy" using Airbnb at all?

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